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Old 10-04-2010, 01:16 PM   #1
Ohnooze

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I just started playing it and I really hope it's going to be around a while but I keep hearing about the dying number of players so I'm just curious what you guys think who have been playing it for a while.  Has it really died down a lot?

Also do you think there will be another EverQuest game when this one dies?

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Old 10-04-2010, 01:49 PM   #2
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Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

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Old 10-04-2010, 01:55 PM   #3
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stevenbanks wrote:

Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

Well that's good to hear.

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Old 10-04-2010, 02:05 PM   #4
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Let's see:

EQ was released in March 1999. And eleven years later and 17 expansions - it's still not dead.

EQ2 was released in November 2004. And six years later and 9 expansions and adventure packs later - it's still not dead.

As for another EverQuest - there is development going on for another in the series, but what it will be called is anyone's guess. Right now, it's being termed EverQuest Next for lack of a decent working title.

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Old 10-04-2010, 02:06 PM   #5
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stevenbanks wrote:

Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

Server population has not increased. It has dropped, dramatically. Where exactly do you see that numbers are rising?

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Old 10-04-2010, 02:38 PM   #6
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Ohnooze wrote:

Also do you think there will be another EverQuest game when this one dies?

EQ Next is dying.

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Old 10-04-2010, 02:55 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

Server population has not increased. It has dropped, dramatically. Where exactly do you see that numbers are rising?

And where are you pulling your numbers from ? out a dark stinking place it seems.

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Old 10-04-2010, 03:48 PM   #8
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Proud_Silence wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

Server population has not increased. It has dropped, dramatically. Where exactly do you see that numbers are rising?

And where are you pulling your numbers from ? out a dark stinking place it seems.

More than likely, he is basing his claim upon the reality that populations across almost all servers have been dwindling for the previous several months. I am assuming that Smokejumper is basing his plan for server mergers upon this same fact--and make no mistake about it, it is a fact that server populations are dwindling and this much has been confirmed by people with actual access to numbers and not merely anecdotal evidence.

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:03 PM   #9
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How bad?

Have they said that there will be another EQ game in the future?

Also do you believe that there are a large enough number of people playing to keep the game going?

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:07 PM   #10
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Ohnooze wrote:

How bad?

Have they said that there will be another EQ game in the future?

Also do you believe that there are a large enough number of people playing to keep the game going?

Day 1 on EQ2 release the official forums had doom and gloom threads predicting the death of EQ2 within months.

Roll up a character on AB and you'll find plenty of players to hang out with, on a shiny new upgraded server!

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:29 PM   #11
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The universe is slowly dying too, but like EQ2 it will around and thriving long after most of us have grown tired of it.

As to server populations, the population on my server has gone up… way up. 

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:29 PM   #12
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This has a TON of life left in it. I know I'll be playing this years from now.

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:44 PM   #13
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The game is dieing when observed from the realm of players I play with.

Whether there is new blood replacing the exodus of players from my peers in the past 12 months, I can not say.  I can only say these new people are not playing in the content we are if they are there at all.

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:52 PM   #14
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hoosierdaddy wrote:

Proud_Silence wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

Server population has not increased. It has dropped, dramatically. Where exactly do you see that numbers are rising?

And where are you pulling your numbers from ? out a dark stinking place it seems.

More than likely, he is basing his claim upon the reality that populations across almost all servers have been dwindling for the previous several months. I am assuming that Smokejumper is basing his plan for server mergers upon this same fact--and make no mistake about it, it is a fact that server populations are dwindling and this much has been confirmed by people with actual access to numbers and not merely anecdotal evidence.

Um yeah the only people with access to numbers have said that population is NOT decreasing. And I am able to pull out that quote from LAST WEEK if needed. But I am afraid your tin foil hat theory would likely tell me that the senior producer who this quote comes from is lieing.

The fact is people who are saying the server is dieing have ABSOLUTELY no proof.

From my observation my server population is INCREASING. Then again I play on a populated server already and Rothgar has already confirmed the fact that the smaller server poulation server are all migrating to the larger populaton servers.

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Old 10-04-2010, 05:46 PM   #15
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Proud_Silence wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

Don't listen to people who say this game is dying. Population has actually increased this year and if games like Vanguard and EQOA are still running, then this one is years and years from dead.

Server population has not increased. It has dropped, dramatically. Where exactly do you see that numbers are rising?

And where are you pulling your numbers from ? out a dark stinking place it seems.

Nope. Several times it has been confirmed by the people who *do* have the numbers. Right on this very forum. Don't believe the dev posts? Too bad. That's as accurate as it gets since players can't access the actual numbers.

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Old 10-04-2010, 05:51 PM   #16
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Gungo wrote:

The fact is people who are saying the server is dieing have ABSOLUTELY no proof.

Au contraire.

I have taken a regular attendance measure on Guk on Wed, Friday, and Saturday nights between 9 and 10 p.m. Eastern for nearly 2.5 years.    I believe this to be the peak hour of  daily attendance, and regardless, I've used that same timeslot continously.   Guk would not be rated a low attendance server,  nor would it be in the top 2 either.

Rather than bury the details of how it's done in this post, I'll break it out as a fresh post as soon as RL allows.  

However, to counterpoint your snipped above, I will say that the last 3 weeks worth of Wed, Frid and Sat night data have been statictically close to the same value, and in EVERY CASE they are the lowest number I have ever measured on Guk in the 2.5 years I have been doing this.   

There was an average of 590 per night the past 9 days of peak time samples, with Saturday being the lightest night in every case.

To compare to the same 3 weeks in Sept 2009, the average was 990.

The last 3 weeks in January of 2010  averaged 620.    The peak  post-expansion week averaged 770, then more or less catastrophically dropped about 6-7 weeks later, back to 650, barely above the pre expansion numbers.   

The double xp weekends bump upward, but nowhere near the expansion week numbers,  but returned to their weekly normals shortly after each of those weekends.

I make no claims as to how peak attendance correlates to regular paid subscribers,  but suspect the the payees are dropping with a time delay along a similar slope as the attendance.

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Old 10-04-2010, 05:54 PM   #17
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Guk needs to be merged into Nagafen!

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:03 PM   #18
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Gungo wrote:

Um yeah the only people with access to numbers have said that population is NOT decreasing. And I am able to pull out that quote from LAST WEEK if needed. But I am afraid your tin foil hat theory would likely tell me that the senior producer who this quote comes from is lieing.

The fact is people who are saying the server is dieing have ABSOLUTELY no proof.

From my observation my server population is INCREASING. Then again I play on a populated server already and Rothgar has already confirmed the fact that the smaller server poulation server are all migrating to the larger populaton servers.

Really? No proof? Because I am also able to cite a quote from the game's lead prodcuer issued last week that directly contradicts your argument:

SmokeJumper wrote:

And yes, we're intending to do server mergers on the Live service. Not because of player transfers to EQ2X (which are minor), but just because pops were low there to start with (compared to the number of worlds we're running) and the game is more fun with more people around to play with.

I'm presuming that someone in his positon has access to actual numbers to back up his claim that the populations on live servers are dying.

I'm also more strongly inclinced to believe information issued to me by someone in-the-know than your anecdotal example of playing on a server with a robust population.

If that is truly the case, then I'm happy for you that your server is populated, but you have no evidence at all that the same is true of other servers.

Now why don't you go crawl under that rock where you claimed someone else got their information from and bury your head in the sand a little more about the reality of the state of the game on Live servers.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:13 PM   #19
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hoosierdaddy wrote:

Gungo wrote:

Um yeah the only people with access to numbers have said that population is NOT decreasing. And I am able to pull out that quote from LAST WEEK if needed. But I am afraid your tin foil hat theory would likely tell me that the senior producer who this quote comes from is lieing.

The fact is people who are saying the server is dieing have ABSOLUTELY no proof.

From my observation my server population is INCREASING. Then again I play on a populated server already and Rothgar has already confirmed the fact that the smaller server poulation server are all migrating to the larger populaton servers.

Really? No proof? Because I am also able to cite a quote from the game's lead prodcuer issued last week that directly contradicts your argument:

SmokeJumper wrote:

And yes, we're intending to do server mergers on the Live service. Not because of player transfers to EQ2X (which are minor), but just because pops were low there to start with (compared to the number of worlds we're running) and the game is more fun with more people around to play with.

I'm presuming that someone in his positon has access to actual numbers to back up his claim that the populations on live servers are dying.

I'm also more strongly inclinced to believe information issued to me by someone in-the-know than your anecdotal example of playing on a server with a robust population.

If that is truly the case, then I'm happy for you that your server is populated, but you have no evidence at all that the same is true of other servers.

Now why don't you go crawl under that rock where you claimed someone else got their information from and bury your head in the sand a little more about the reality of the state of the game on Live servers.

What EQ2 is experiencing is an uneven population distribution across servers. As server hardware improves, each server can handle more players, so it makes sense to consolidate resources (merge servers) even if the population overall is not declining. Certain servers may have low populations and may be declining as people transfer to more active servers, but this does not translate into a net population loss, and Smokejumper has stated explicitly that population numbers are stable.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:19 PM   #20
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Glenolas wrote:

To compare to the same 3 weeks in Sept 2009, the average was 990.

The last 3 weeks in January of 2010  averaged 620.    The peak  post-expansion week averaged 770, then more or less catastrophically dropped about 6-7 weeks later, back to 650, barely above the pre expansion numbers.   

The double xp weekends bump upward, but nowhere near the expansion week numbers,  but returned to their weekly normals shortly after each of those weekends.

I make no claims as to how peak attendance correlates to regular paid subscribers,  but suspect the the payees are dropping with a time delay along a similar slope as the attendance.

I'm not nearly as diligent about checking it as you are, my own observations are similar volumes/times on Unrest.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:21 PM   #21
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Numbers only tell half the story.  As Atan was saying, the real issue is what parts of the game people are playing.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:25 PM   #22
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hoosierdaddy wrote:

Gungo wrote:

Um yeah the only people with access to numbers have said that population is NOT decreasing. And I am able to pull out that quote from LAST WEEK if needed. But I am afraid your tin foil hat theory would likely tell me that the senior producer who this quote comes from is lieing.

The fact is people who are saying the server is dieing have ABSOLUTELY no proof.

From my observation my server population is INCREASING. Then again I play on a populated server already and Rothgar has already confirmed the fact that the smaller server poulation server are all migrating to the larger populaton servers.

Really? No proof? Because I am also able to cite a quote from the game's lead prodcuer issued last week that directly contradicts your argument:

SmokeJumper wrote:

And yes, we're intending to do server mergers on the Live service. Not because of player transfers to EQ2X (which are minor), but just because pops were low there to start with (compared to the number of worlds we're running) and the game is more fun with more people around to play with.

I'm presuming that someone in his positon has access to actual numbers to back up his claim that the populations on live servers are dying.

I'm also more strongly inclinced to believe information issued to me by someone in-the-know than your anecdotal example of playing on a server with a robust population.

If that is truly the case, then I'm happy for you that your server is populated, but you have no evidence at all that the same is true of other servers.

Now why don't you go crawl under that rock where you claimed someone else got their information from and bury your head in the sand a little more about the reality of the state of the game on Live servers.

SmokeJumper wrote:

What we call "concurrent" or "number of people logged in at once". We graph that and the Live servers have been pretty much the same since the launch of EQ2X as it was before the launch. Like I said, we're still watching it carefully however. It's too early still to see trends.

Like you said...he would have the info. "Pretty much the same" is what he said. Not declining...not increasing. In your quote he said pop on several servers was already low...not that it had went down in the recent past.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:28 PM   #23
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This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5427561 There is no reason to be insulting.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:49 PM   #24
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Gungo wrote:

hoosierdaddy wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

And yes, we're intending to do server mergers on the Live service. Not because of player transfers to EQ2X (which are minor), but just because pops were low there to start with (compared to the number of worlds we're running) and the game is more fun with more people around to play with.

I'm presuming that someone in his positon has access to actual numbers to back up his claim that the populations on live servers are dying.

I'm also more strongly inclinced to believe information issued to me by someone in-the-know than your anecdotal example of playing on a server with a robust population.

If that is truly the case, then I'm happy for you that your server is populated, but you have no evidence at all that the same is true of other servers.

Now why don't you go crawl under that rock where you claimed someone else got their information from and bury your head in the sand a little more about the reality of the state of the game on Live servers.

I am going to do this simple to prove to the world you are an imbecile and let you eat your own crow because you are to slow to understand what the senior producer means by low populations due to the number of WORLDS. This article is from Massively from an interview with smokejumper dated September 29, 2010. 5 days ago since it is likely you are to dumb to count.

SmokeJumper wrote:

Jumping right in, how to do you feel about the population on the Live servers, given the F2P success?The Live servers haven't really dipped at all. We don't usually release numbers, but a very small percentage of people transferred over to EQ2X. We can watch everybody's account, we know where they go, we can check out who's going where with what credit cards, we know where our population is drifting and whether they're leaving or not, and only a small percentage of people have gone across to Extended. This was predictable because some of the people had guild halls, circles of friends, well-established communities and all of that stuff. They don't want to leave that. An even smaller percentage of people quit in a blue funk about it. In general, the populations are still very stable.

What this article says is you, hoosierdaddy are an idiot and have no clue what you are talking about. If you need further proof please refer to the poster above who ALSO provided a quote saying the same thing.

Ok. So you want to be a jerk? Nowhere in my post did I resort to calling you names, but since you've decided to take the low road....

Smokejumper was referring to changes in population since the release of EQ2 Extended. You need to go back and re-read his post. Most of us are referring to overall reductions in the populations of Live servers.

I haven't noticed any fewer players on Unrest since the release of EQ2 Extended. But that because it's as dead as it was before EQ2X was ever implemented.

You want to know what a truly robust population is? Click on my signature and look at the text-view of my levelling history. I hit level 25 in Thundering Steppes 4. This was at the release of the game when there were even more Live servers than now.

I honestly don't know why I am even bothering debating this with such an idiot. Server mergers are a foregone conclusion and all of your arguing that it is unnecessary does not matter at this point.

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Old 10-04-2010, 07:02 PM   #25
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hoosierdaddy wrote:

Ok. So you want to be a jerk? Nowhere in my post did I resort to calling you names, but since you've decided to take the low road....

Smokejumper was referring to changes in population since the release of EQ2 Extended. You need to go back and re-read his post. Most of us are referring to overall reductions in the populations of Live servers.

I haven't noticed any fewer players on Unrest since the release of EQ2 Extended. But that because it's as dead as it was before EQ2X was ever implemented.

You want to know what a truly robust population is? Click on my signature and look at the text-view of my levelling history. I hit level 25 in Thundering Steppes 4. This was at the release of the game when there were even more Live servers than now.

I honestly don't know why I am even bothering debating this with such an idiot. Server mergers are a foregone conclusion and all of your arguing that it is unnecessary does not matter at this point.

Do you know why there was 4 instances of thundersteppes. Because back when the game released there was ONLY ~12 overland zones. Furthermore when the game released there was a MUCH larger popualtion. No one is claiming the game has the same population as RELEASE. What the developers are saying is the population has NOT decreased RECENTLY. Since Smokejumper has been here the population has been STABLE.

P.s. If it makes you feel any better I am sorry i called you names.

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Old 10-04-2010, 07:25 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

I'm not nearly as diligent about checking it as you are, my own observations are similar volumes/times on Unrest.

The diligence is mostly automated, with a little cut a paste help into the final xl file.   The game had slow periods even back then, so one had to do something for entertainment.    

All in all, however, it was to get my own take on "the game is dying, no the game is growing fast" crowd with some actual numbers.   Generally my takes are privately held,  but will surface at times of distorted reasoning like we're seeing here.    Year to year comparasions are very insightful,  as are quarter to quarter trends.   Getting exicted about a bad or good week in an exercise in futility, and forget holidays, they can go either way.

I agree'd when I read your first post.  The game is dying,  and no amount of denial will alleviate it.  We're slightly above half the population of August 2009.   The 2009 downslide started about mid September and never looked back.  

I show it flat since we got clear of the Labor day double xp bump associated with the latest GU, but down  from August, which was down from July.    We both read the same forums.   If even a third of the people quit that claim they were going to, we're in trouble.   Time will tell.

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Old 10-04-2010, 08:23 PM   #27
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Grumble69 wrote:

Numbers only tell half the story.  As Atan was saying, the real issue is what parts of the game people are playing.

Correct, and that's why the last GU was such a surprise to me.

The level raising XP in Feb had only 12 heroic instances, a new low.   Ignoring those who leveled to 90 in 2 days,  most had leveled within a month, and in doing so outleveled 8 of the instances, leaving 4 as a challenge, which have sinced been farmed to extreme boredom.    People who did all the quests wound up at level 87, and without grinding help, got stuck there, waiting for more quests.   The high end raid guilds had cleared 95% of the content by the end of march, and were off to other challenges.

The game screamed for an immediate high end content infusion, as it does every time  immediately after a level growing xpac.   The majority of the player base had run out of things to do.

Into that void come a GU with:

1) Zero high end content.

2) A  much ballyhooed UI that did nothing new, was badly bugged, and while not time urgent, released in the bugged form anyway.    (hotbars splayed all over the screen,  hotkeys rewired,  and changing background color automatically reset the user to the original default layout (not his personalized version),  quest journal that would not sort correctly,  quest helper broken on every zoning,  chat window bugs still remaining unfixed from previous years, etc, etc, etc)

3). Stolen horses.

Dev's have to pay attention to all of their constituent levels,  but the highend got left at the altar.

Smokejumper is technically correct in his statement.   The 3 weeks since EQ2x went beta, which was accompanied with a 2x expansion weekend,  the attendance numbers have been flat.  

However, he avoided the painful part.    Since EQ2X  and the zero content GU began to reach the public awareness level,  sometime in April to May, there has been a steady drop.    Players had outplayed the content,  were unhappy with the entire concept of purchasing their progress with a VISA card,  and definitely discouraged with having to play the same content for several more months.  Fan Faire did nothing to staunch the losses, and may have exacerbated them.  

The damage had been done well before the actual EQ2x beta launch, and comparing with March would be a better comparsion than taking the last 3 weeks as an indicator.   If you get to chose your data, you can duck the real issue. 

Basically,  after a  level shifting expansion in February,  the Sept  GU that did not rescue it,   and everything in between, we are back to below January.  

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Old 10-04-2010, 09:50 PM   #28
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When I say "no drop in pop", that's since February (which is as far back as I looked because that's the last expansion that came out).

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Old 10-04-2010, 10:03 PM   #29
Ironcleaver

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Its a tough question to answer in all honesty. Is the population stable enough that the game will be around for years to come, yea. Are there people asking for groups all the time in level chat, yea.

On the other hand. Over the past few months when I log in durring the day I see fewer and fewer guildmates online. Most of the members show up only for the raids, which take place three tiems a week. There are raid nights where we can barely fill the raid, and others when over thirty people log in. We also have a crowd that are playing other games and only raiding in EQ2 (which is also fine).

There is also a crowd of people needing and wanting more, or something different. I just hope velious isn't as small as the past two experantions. The last to packs, people were very busy fr the first month or two, then it was back to, only logging in for raids again.

So, yes, the servers are in good shape and will be around for years to come. But there are also times in which the game feels dead becaue, while the subsciptions are there, they are logging in less and less till something new comes out. So both arguments are true, to a degree.

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Old 10-04-2010, 10:07 PM   #30
Vinyard
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I hunt down the new/returning players in EQ2.

Usually I find them in Kelethin or Frostfang....I check their alts on EQ2players.com to see if they have any 90s. If they don't, I usually throw them 10p as well as some powerleveling.

A lot of the people I help, I never hear from again....but there are always new players it seems that I come across.

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