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Old 05-12-2006, 03:57 AM   #61
Belisarius

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I dont care to take the time to, but someone should make an educated post regarding troub problems and post it on the combat boards. Give it a flashy name or something.
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:23 AM   #62
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At this point, the fun factor of our class is near empty. Maybe a Dev should play the class for a painfull few months trying to get this now limp class to 70. That would be like torture.As it stands, Sony must have motive behind the madness. Be honest with yourselves Sony. If you want this class extinct...just do as sugested above and let us respec to a different class, and remove troubadors from the game. Enchanters and dirges can take up any slack we leave, maybe boost other classes with 1 tune each to make up for lost utility, and just do what you so baddly want to do.What is worse? If we wounded Troubadors waste 12 months on this class for nothing, hoping each update that we will become fun again....well not likely.Lets hear the truth, so we can get on with it. Either we leave the class borked and abandon them, or we fix it. If we were overpowered yet gimped to death as small group/solo, this means we are not a viable class. So just delete the whole mess from your game.It appears to fix the class is to break the game group/raid dynamics (no win situation).Just don't lie for 12 months and waste more of our freaking time.Moose

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Old 05-12-2006, 07:01 AM   #63
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I'm dumbfounded. Speechless. Sigh.

When I first got the game, I played a wizard for all the uber dps it provides. But then raiding came and I found out how craptastic the wizzie dps really is in raids. So I started a troubie because I got sick of parsing and the whole dps epenis comparisons. Also thought it would be the one class that would be safe from the nerf bat, seeing how unspectacular the troubie's dps is (ah, the irony). Fell in love with my troub straight away. It was a fun class to play, forcing me to be awake and aware of the situation around me. Changing songs and mezzing/charming as needed. I felt useful. Felt better than button mashing on my wizzie.

And now this.

With all these changes, what's the point of having a troubie anyways? Chanters can do everything we can and better.

Mana regen? Yeap, chanters too.

CC? Chanters do it better.

Spell procs? Chanters have that too.

Alin's Serenade is about the only thing that makes us unique. But funny how that doesn't get used in groups or solo too often. And raids have survived without that song before and will again. As it will stand after the patch, we're the chanter's ugly cousin that no one wants to take to the prom.

I love the utility of my troubie. That's the reason why I chose to play it instead of a dps class. Sure I grumbled a little when the proc changes went live but I didn't really care, dps isn't what I'm all about. But now, they're taking away my utility. If this goes live, there really isn't anything about a troubador that would be fun to play anymore.

Don't really know what to do. I like EQ2, and I love my troubie. I don't want to quit, I really don't. But if the game stops being fun, then I might have to find my fun elsewhere.

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Old 05-12-2006, 09:16 AM   #64
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Yes it is all about the fun. Simply putting up Alin's during a raid and running to and frow and try as I might - no matter how much mashing of the hot keys - I fail to see any contribution on my part. When I saw the proc numbers brightly hi-lighted above the heads of the targeted mobs I felt pretty good. When in a group situation I saved my group from adds I again felt positive. Further, when I could charm a "Corpse Candle" in the Bonemire and and take down mobs at a rate I deemed reasonable, once again, I felt good about the Troubador. If Alin's is the only reason besides Brias' I am wanted by groups or raids then I'll throw in the towel. For Christ's sake, the warlock in my group still dies at an unacceptable rate.
 
So if these changes go ahead - I have no doubt that will in fact go ahead - we will be left with three usefull abilities, alin's, brias', and to a lesser extend PotM, which at the rate things are going may be the subject of future "examinations."
 
I really hate to post like this but....Troubs, like chanters before them, are going through quite a lot of 'balancing' with little rewards in  exchange.
 
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:28 PM   #65
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damnit you changed our class without any forewarning. Now you guys owe us at least some explanation about our direction, do you not? I am serious here this is account closing type decisions you are making at least for myself, I have had it with this these changes. the least you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s could do is respond sooth us etc.  Come on you owe us that much - those who have played the class for so long..........
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:57 PM   #66
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Where do i start?with my anger for the devs?with the feeling i have wasted a 1.5 years?with my confusion of why?with the knowledge that no dev will visit these pages and hear our concerns?all these above thoughts arent anything new SMILEYthe worst part of all these changes recent NONE of them have been done as a direct responce to our class. From the mana drain removal, to nerfed proc'ed dps, to these recent mez/charm changes... NONE of these have come about because of our class it just happens that we are a jack-of-all-trades class which means everytime the devs seek that mystiscal prize of balance we are the ones who feel the changes.my question is plain simple WHY? who is this balance for on a normal server? the few who duel for fun? who else honestly sits around and goes "ooooh that evil troubs can mez really well?" the answer of course is fanboys and that is it. i mean on a normal server if i do some wiz-bang mezthingie in mid battle and save the group... i get a few mins being treated as a hero for saving the group!!!! So i come back to the question WHY Balance, who on a normal server is seeing balance? You have always said the the PvP server spells would have nothign to do with normal servers.... *cough, cough*the search for balance is just like the search for the Holy Grail. Those who spend their time looking for a mystical outcome that by definition cant be obtained. And in their search what they missed is everything they already have. Why search for class balance that can NEVER exist (as has never done in any game ever) its like asking for world peace... it would a lovely thing to happen... but simple and logically it cant be obtained. in their search DEVS are missing what they already have many many players who love playing this game, sure each class needs tweaks. take for example the pure our enchanters they have been pleading for changes for ages so instead of giving them love, they nerf everyone equally to "balance" all. Ask any enchanter very few of them wanted some loving BUT at the cost of other classes... once again i ask why? Honestly devs go read the tale of Percival and the Holy Grail... a poor old knight who wastes his life looking for the grail, only to find when he is face to face with it he doesnt recognize it. there is a reason these tales have lived on for a 1000 odd years because the themes are timeless.Oh who am i kidding the DEVS arent going to look here and feel our pain, look at the DEV tracker ... none of them for weeks have had respect for that fan base. At least in all fairness at this Staryeye dropped in and had a look .. prays that she might indirectly ask a dev to look over here and see our concerns. I just wonder why DEVS make changes like this? whats the use of changing our charm from 7mins odd to 8secs in the greater scheme? dont they want happy players? dont they want people to enjoy there time and more important wouldnt a greater idea is inspire connection between devs and players... I mean  without players the devs are basically kings of nothing. Why weild a baseball bat to class and when you can select members of each class to act as inspiration in a meeting room?once again why? is it just because they can? the said fact is yes, so basically yes and now they have cornered the MMO market by buying Vanguard (marketing etc) I mean how can they market both EQ2 and Vanguard fairly? grrr now im off track and even more upset, will write more later ... time to leave my troub for a week or so and go back to CIV4

Message Edited by Blakeavon on 05-12-2006 07:59 PM

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Old 05-12-2006, 01:12 PM   #67
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Dear SOE,I rarely post about anything that happens to the troubadour. And i will not just quit that easy, I just worry about the FUN factor that is left when this nerf comes in! I think it will be totally down the drain. With this nerf i think i cannot do some quests! Some solo instances will just be IMPOSSIBLE to do.Please rethink your decisions. Cause I am REALLY NOT OVERPOWERED!Rosalee
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:38 PM   #68
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Well I think they are missing the main point of having a Bard in the group and that is that when you have a Bard in the group, the group becomes greate and it should be a major different. It should be a privilige to have a Bard... the bard should be the best buffers over them all. That is the classic way a bard works... but what the heck im just so dissapointed at the Devs atm and they cant know anything about roleplaying games, and what fun means... the trubadours are not playing to be the best class in the game we all just like the fun of doing everything.. mezzing, charming and buff the group to be greate and not to be the masters of the game.. so please stop picking on us.
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:42 PM   #69
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Man... I've been playing around on a little level 30 troub alt.  He's been fun, and while his dps isn't great, he brings the love to the casters even at that level.  Really though I couldn't wait until I got up into the 40s/50s and was able to have all my crowd control stuff so I could be more than an afk buffer to my group.  Looks like that is going down the drain, so maybe I'll roll an enchanter or something who at least has a shot of being the little engine that could.  =  Thanks sony, you've ruined my dreams of greatness.
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:47 PM   #70
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Enough talk. I quit.

My game is paid until june 30th. After this, ciao !

 

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(btw has anybody seen my T6 rare recipes ?)

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Old 05-12-2006, 05:05 PM   #71
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Same... can't believe I waited 1.5 years for a response in the weaponsmith forums. I'm not going to wait that long here-- E3 or no E3.

Just cancelled my two accounts.

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Old 05-12-2006, 05:11 PM   #72
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Part of my Guess on the Why is around a month or two before any new release they tone down classes so that the new products look all the better,
 
I have seen it happen over the last year and a bit, the cycle is - tone down the awesome new release as the weeks go by, so everything that was great about it is toned right down because it was 'too powerful' and then on the approach to the next release it starts again toning it right down.. Then the release the next update and ooo is it not nice and all the new things etc
 
Its marketing
 
It is a shame but I will be very surprised if most if not all of what was listed does not make it into the Live LU
And yea it is a right shame we have to share the fate of so many classes.
 
But one has to wander what they have in-store for the next update, what could it be, could they be rolling out the long overdue Master III's
 
Personally I have been unimpressed with SOE for awhile now and have not been playing much over the last few weeks; I think they are losing vision.
 
I personally will be delaying my purchase of the next adventure pack to see what they do and if I don't see a sign that they may be fixing things then I will be finding other things to spend my money on.
 
EDIT: opps the crystal ball just told be I will be canceling my two acounts anyway, o well dont think i needed it to tell me since the writing was on the wall 

Message Edited by Sir Blight on 05-12-2006 02:13 PM

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Old 05-12-2006, 05:33 PM   #73
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Rolled a Mystic today.

 

Double Parking my Troub.

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Old 05-12-2006, 05:34 PM   #74
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yeppers i couldnt have said it better myself

 
Personally I have been unimpressed with SOE for awhile now and have not been playing much over the last few weeks; I think they are losing vision.
 
I

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Old 05-12-2006, 06:59 PM   #75
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I thought their vision was to buy up every mmo they could get thier hands on so there was limited competition.

 

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Old 05-12-2006, 07:28 PM   #76
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I picture it like this:A schoolroom with a bunch of kids in it, all representing a certain class. A bunch of the kids are standing up and screaming that their class is nerfed. While in the back, the emo-esque Troubadour is sitting there quietly complaining about being misunderstood and that nobody likes him. The teacher (SOE) calls him to the front of the class and smacks him with the nerf bat. Everyone is like "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?".WTG, nerfing classes that are already unpopular. Honestly, it's not my main so I don't care AS much, also I usually DON'T complain about stuff like this, but pretty much everyone is like "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?".
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:52 PM   #77
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hehe nice way of putting it Keyh

 

in that light, maby the used the bat so that more poeple would get to understad what it was we used to do.

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Old 05-12-2006, 08:30 PM   #78
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Wow, I am utterly shocked.  Don't even know where to start with this.  I don't post a lot as you can see from my post count but I just had to lend my support to my fellow Troubador's and express my dissapointment at the propossed changes.  I've played a Troubador since beta, and played a bard in EQ1 into the 60's.  I can't even begin to understand there thinking when it comes to the changes they are planning on bringing to the live servers.  These changes are goign to make the class utterly useless.  What is the point of making the charm last only 8 seconds and give it such a high reuse timer?  It's going to make the ability useless to even have in the game.  And the changes to Mez is going to break the class.

/very dissapointed Troubador.

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Old 05-12-2006, 08:45 PM   #79
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The strangest thing of all is that the proposed changes to charm are essentially what charm was pre LU13. No concentration makes sense, but we already established that this wasn't something that worked through many months of play. Then LU13 fixed it, and turned it into a decent solo spell. Not everyone likes it, but it still works a helluva lot better than pre LU13. Some swear by it.

I get the impression that the design department of SOE is a bit like a husband and wife squabbling while trying to construct a flatpack cabinet from Ikea. After many hours of nasty comments, discarding instructions, retrieving instructions, swearing at instructions, blaming the Swedish for inventing Ikea in the first place, giving up and gluing it together, wondering why you have a large sheet of wood and two handles left over...after all this, you have a flimsy cabinet. Or is it? It looks more like a chest. Nobody is really sure what it is. Does it sit on the floor? Attach it to the wall? Careful, don't put that lamp on it, it'll.....oh no, the sides fell off!

After a week, the 'thing' is placed in the garage and used to store bits and bobs. One day, you back your car into it and it crumples into nothing.

As a troubadour, I think I've already been relegated to the garage. The question is, will the squabbling couple get their act together and give the cabinet a clear purpose, or will it be forgotten about altogether. :smileysad:

 

 

Message Edited by WorldsAway_Nybor on 05-12-2006 09:47 AM

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Old 05-12-2006, 11:05 PM   #80
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Well Said Nybor /agree
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:54 PM   #81
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This is a very sad day for me.  Seems they are trying to drive players off of Pve servers and onto Pvp.  These changes are obviously meant to rebalance those toons.

I have been a happy paying customer for over a year now and have no interest in pvp.  When these changes go live there will be no fun in playing my toon anymore.  I'll log in to raids and watch tv just to keep our necros alive.

 

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Old 05-13-2006, 12:28 AM   #82
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MrCanoehead wrote:

This is a very sad day for me.  Seems they are trying to drive players off of Pve servers and onto Pvp.  These changes are obviously meant to rebalance those toons.

I have been a happy paying customer for over a year now and have no interest in pvp.  When these changes go live there will be no fun in playing my toon anymore.  I'll log in to raids and watch tv just to keep our necros alive.

 


Well said

Message Edited by Belisarius on 05-12-2006 01:29 PM

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Old 05-13-2006, 01:10 AM   #83
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I've worked out my new LFG message:"Lvl xx Troubadour LFG Note: Will stay at keyboard to change buffs if needed"
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Old 05-13-2006, 01:23 AM   #84
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I would like to flame the hell out Sony for this lunacy but I won't waste my time. I've already wasted enough playing a troubador.

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Old 05-13-2006, 02:06 AM   #85
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Kinda sickening how they said PvP servers wouldn't affect playstyles on PvE and yet they have continuously made changes to the entire game just for that reason.
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Old 05-13-2006, 02:23 AM   #86
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>Kinda sickening how they said PvP servers wouldn't affect playstyles on PvE and yet they have continuously made changes to the entire game just for that reason. yep. hate it.  I don't understand why they couldn't seperate the development of pve and pvp servers.  are there more subscribers on pvp servers over pve servers or something?
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Old 05-13-2006, 03:23 AM   #87
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I'm a little confused why people think these changes have anything to do with pvp. The changes to Aria were made for normalizing dps which could get out of control on raids, and as far as our control spells, they already functioned differently in pvp.

All spells and combat arts have different values for pvp... these changes have nothing to do with pvp whatsoever outside of the recast timer change which seems to be shared.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy with the changes as everyone else, but equating them with some sort of sony pvp conspiracy is ignorant.

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Old 05-13-2006, 03:26 AM   #88
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Kaelos_CZ wrote:
>Kinda sickening how they said PvP servers wouldn't affect playstyles on PvE and yet they have continuously made changes to the entire game just for that reason.

yep. hate it.  I don't understand why they couldn't seperate the development of pve and pvp servers.  are there more subscribers on pvp servers over pve servers or something?




look at it from the view of a company, its cheaper if you have only one development team for all rulesets.  otherwise they should think that lots of people will quit so in the end they will loose more money

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Old 05-13-2006, 06:45 AM   #89
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Keyh wrote:
I've worked out my new LFG message:

"Lvl xx Troubadour LFG Note: Will stay at keyboard to change buffs if needed"




Lvl xx Troub LFG. My couch isn't that far from my computer so I might come and see how we're doing.
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Old 05-13-2006, 07:27 AM   #90
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...
 
"kill off a class for no good reason?"  "BRILLIANT!!!"
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