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Old 03-27-2008, 06:38 PM   #1
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Have to say i'm rather angry right now, but i'm going to be as calm as I can during this post.  I have done the Elder Skyfire wurms and Wyverns without fail on my warden as well as my SK.  However these things are plain horse crap on my assassin.  Every time I attempt these creatures they destroy me doing 1100+ dmg. 

Right now a little while ago I had An Elder Skyfire Wyvern at 1% and some how it turns around resisting every single attack then doing 3k dmg to me inside of 4-5 seconds.  This is utterly ridiculous and really needs to be toned down since the quest involving these creatures is rated at "Soloable" non heroic.

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Old 03-27-2008, 07:36 PM   #2
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Mobs in Skyfire are tougher because they are:

a) Higher level, 82-84, and...

b) The wyrms, wyverns and a few other select mobs have one up arrows. This means your stuns don't last as long, they have almost twice as much life, and hit you for twice as hard.

I have an Assassin, and I'll tell you this much to make those fights easier, perhaps even trivial: Kite them to begin or end the fight. Use your CAs for 50% of its life, and then your bow and your temp buffs to finish off the other 50%. How I handle named in Skyfire on my assassin. Without the stuns that rogues have, you need to use some guile and have quick feet to win. Oh, and use Vitality breach poisons too, makes the kiting even easier. Kind of makes sense as an Assassin actually...

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Old 03-28-2008, 10:55 AM   #3
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Tyrion wrote:

Mobs in Skyfire are tougher because they are:

a) Higher level, 82-84, and...

b) The wyrms, wyverns and a few other select mobs have one up arrows. This means your stuns don't last as long, they have almost twice as much life, and hit you for twice as hard.

I have an Assassin, and I'll tell you this much to make those fights easier, perhaps even trivial: Kite them to begin or end the fight. Use your CAs for 50% of its life, and then your bow and your temp buffs to finish off the other 50%. How I handle named in Skyfire on my assassin. Without the stuns that rogues have, you need to use some guile and have quick feet to win. Oh, and use Vitality breach poisons too, makes the kiting even easier. Kind of makes sense as an Assassin actually...

A) yes I agree they are higher level so they are harder

B) this is totally false a ^ mob will have no effect once so ever on the duration of any CC effect you put on it, The only mobs that reduce the effect of any CC effect are epics and the duration is reduced by 1/3 and the immunites is 3 times the duration of the effect.  They do hit harder and have more life.

But yes they are yellow cons ^ which means they will present a challenge to a even con meaning that if you arent 82-84 and struggleing try to find some one to help you kill them.  If you scroll over your target's name when one of them is selected you can read this discription as well.

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Old 03-28-2008, 10:57 AM   #4
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Amana, as often as you ask for things to be nerfed or made easier, perhaps you might consider that the problem doesn't reside with the game . . .
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:56 AM   #5
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Banditman wrote:
Amana, as often as you ask for things to be nerfed or made easier, perhaps you might consider that the problem doesn't reside with the game . . .
This does seem to be an element common in the majority of Amana's threads.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:59 AM   #6
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Maybe you should have rolled a swashy : P
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:59 AM   #7
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I won't comment on the elders myself since I been using the standard skyfire variety for the hunter time line. But the wurms, the four legged variety, do seem to have a tendency to have an extremely short duration  for the cheap shot stun. It has been numerous times I can't even get a flank attack in before the stun is over. Even with 5 AA into cheap shot ( a whole whopping 1 seconds, but thats another argument), it is very difficult if not impossible to get a solo backstab on these.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:16 PM   #8
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simpwrx02 wrote:
Tyrion wrote:

Mobs in Skyfire are tougher because they are:

a) Higher level, 82-84, and...

b) The wyrms, wyverns and a few other select mobs have one up arrows. This means your stuns don't last as long, they have almost twice as much life, and hit you for twice as hard.

I have an Assassin, and I'll tell you this much to make those fights easier, perhaps even trivial: Kite them to begin or end the fight. Use your CAs for 50% of its life, and then your bow and your temp buffs to finish off the other 50%. How I handle named in Skyfire on my assassin. Without the stuns that rogues have, you need to use some guile and have quick feet to win. Oh, and use Vitality breach poisons too, makes the kiting even easier. Kind of makes sense as an Assassin actually...

A) yes I agree they are higher level so they are harder

B) this is totally false a ^ mob will have no effect once so ever on the duration of any CC effect you put on it, The only mobs that reduce the effect of any CC effect are epics and the duration is reduced by 1/3 and the immunites is 3 times the duration of the effect.  They do hit harder and have more life.

But yes they are yellow cons ^ which means they will present a challenge to a even con meaning that if you arent 82-84 and struggleing try to find some one to help you kill them.  If you scroll over your target's name when one of them is selected you can read this discription as well.

Are you sure about that? I mean REALLY sure?I pretty much solod a dirge from 1-80, and after hitting cheap shot (stun), I would Shriek Blade (side/rear attack) Bump (to put me in stealth) and finish with Scream of Death or Grim Strike (stealth attacks). On any mob solo mob with no arrows or down arrows, I could do all this before stun wore off. On anything with an up arrow, be it a heroic ^^^ or a 'solo' ^ the stun would wear off at some point while casting Bump...consistently. Those ^ mobs in Skyfire are tough for a scout who relies on stuns, as a Dirge, I had to kite as much as possible...which isn't easy in that area, but perfectly doable.As far as the OP is concerned, the nerf call is totally unwarranted IMO. They are supposed to be tricky.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:40 PM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:
simpwrx02 wrote:
Tyrion wrote:

Mobs in Skyfire are tougher because they are:

a) Higher level, 82-84, and...

b) The wyrms, wyverns and a few other select mobs have one up arrows. This means your stuns don't last as long, they have almost twice as much life, and hit you for twice as hard.

I have an Assassin, and I'll tell you this much to make those fights easier, perhaps even trivial: Kite them to begin or end the fight. Use your CAs for 50% of its life, and then your bow and your temp buffs to finish off the other 50%. How I handle named in Skyfire on my assassin. Without the stuns that rogues have, you need to use some guile and have quick feet to win. Oh, and use Vitality breach poisons too, makes the kiting even easier. Kind of makes sense as an Assassin actually...

A) yes I agree they are higher level so they are harder

B) this is totally false a ^ mob will have no effect once so ever on the duration of any CC effect you put on it, The only mobs that reduce the effect of any CC effect are epics and the duration is reduced by 1/3 and the immunites is 3 times the duration of the effect.  They do hit harder and have more life.

But yes they are yellow cons ^ which means they will present a challenge to a even con meaning that if you arent 82-84 and struggleing try to find some one to help you kill them.  If you scroll over your target's name when one of them is selected you can read this discription as well.

Are you sure about that? I mean REALLY sure?I pretty much solod a dirge from 1-80, and after hitting cheap shot (stun), I would Shriek Blade (side/rear attack) Bump (to put me in stealth) and finish with Scream of Death or Grim Strike (stealth attacks). On any mob solo mob with no arrows or down arrows, I could do all this before stun wore off. On anything with an up arrow, be it a heroic ^^^ or a 'solo' ^ the stun would wear off at some point while casting Bump...consistently. Those ^ mobs in Skyfire are tough for a scout who relies on stuns, as a Dirge, I had to kite as much as possible...which isn't easy in that area, but perfectly doable.As far as the OP is concerned, the nerf call is totally unwarranted IMO. They are supposed to be tricky.

I may be wrong, but I have not noticed any shorter duration in my stuns that I use when I solo them on my illy, oh and he is melee specced so I normally mez for a pull, then get all of my buffs up stun to break mez and then go at him from the back so i dont get any reposte damage, I can normally get the mob down to ~30% health by the time my stuns wears off then I hit him with my daze and I may only get hit with a reposte before it is dead.  I can normally lock down any herioc non named for the duration of a fight in a group with my illy as well so that is why I am saying only epics get a reduced duration. 

Cheap shot may have a shorter duration, but I doubt it, it may just be that it takes longer to get into place for a situational attack making it seem like cheapshot has a shorter durtation as the wurms are feaking huge. I normally watch my timers on my stuns not all that closely, but they didnt seem to be any shorter than normal, will check it out next time I kill one of these mobs to see if the duration is shorter.  But as far as I know only epics get a reduced CC ability and named have immunities to CC abilities, which is lame as an chanter is now more useful on epics than on herioc names as far as mitigating damage, but that is a totally different topic. Oh and the assassins in my guild never seemed to have an issue soloing these mobs other than gettign adds, which is the same as any other class soloing here. 

PS sorry for being a little redundent in my second paragraph.

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Old 03-28-2008, 12:48 PM   #10
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Its actually written in the spell description for you.Cheap Shot:Stuns target for 2 secondsApplies Stun on TerminationStuns target for 2 seconds* Does not apply if Target is Stronger than Standard** Does not work Against Epics(Okay, not EXACT spell description - at work - but it has that * there)Basically, if its stronger than a standard (no-arrow) mob, you only get 2 seconds of cheap shot. Edit: TyposEdit #2: Added small tidbit of info.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:50 PM   #11
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I guess it must be a scout thing, as cheap shot definately has a shorter duration....and no I am not disregarding the fact that those mobs are pretty huge...aside from the fact it's the same on ^ gnomes or equally small mobs, you can position the wurms/wyverns so you don't have to move any further than on a normal sized mob. /shrugEDIT: ^ I knew I wasn't going crazy haha
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:53 PM   #12
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Soloing a yellow-con ^ mob is not something every class can do, or do well. Really, these encounters are intended for a small group, like 2-3 people. Perhaps the game need a quest tier between solo and heroic to give people a better idea of the challenge level.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:03 PM   #13
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I remember I had to ask for help killing a one-up once, heh. Was a good time ago.Only problem with single ups is that they don't really give any noticeably larger XP gain than against a regular critter. *Shrug*
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:05 PM   #14
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cheap shot doesn't act like other CC spells, like coercer's stun for exemple and really the stun duration is shorten depending of the mob. a ^ mob will be stuned less than a non arrow mob.

it's been like that since DOF, so it's not new.

so yes, soloting with an assassin is not easy when fighting ^ mobs like when fighting groups. It doable but takes a lot of practice and skills.

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Old 03-28-2008, 01:16 PM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:
I guess it must be a scout thing, as cheap shot definately has a shorter duration....and no I am not disregarding the fact that those mobs are pretty huge...aside from the fact it's the same on ^ gnomes or equally small mobs, you can position the wurms/wyverns so you don't have to move any further than on a normal sized mob. /shrugEDIT: ^ I knew I wasn't going crazy haha

Ok Cheap Shot without 5pts AA in it is not going to cut it in ROK for soloing

Assassins are 99.9% positional - if you are not utilizing your positional kite ability you best have lots of coin for repairs.

Get the potions you need for inc agi or sta.   Get the food you need.

Get some health pots - get the 3k health necklass (forgot its name but it is a quest reward)

If this does not do it for you - then park it and look for another class.

My 80 Assassin sits as a DPS need for my guild

My 73 Inquisitor is rolling through content I could only look at from afar on my Assassin.   Assassins are more heavily into group abilities its just the life of sneaky from the back class.

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Old 03-28-2008, 01:22 PM   #16
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Wait a second, Assassins get AA options for cheap shot? You cheap jerks! =)
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:03 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:
Its actually written in the spell description for you.Cheap Shot:Stuns target for 2 secondsApplies Stun on TerminationStuns target for 2 seconds* Does not apply if Target is Stronger than Standard** Does not work Against Epics(Okay, not EXACT spell description - at work - but it has that * there)Basically, if its stronger than a standard (no-arrow) mob, you only get 2 seconds of cheap shot. Edit: TyposEdit #2: Added small tidbit of info.
Sweet learned soemthing new today, I really should have looked at that on one of my scout alts, but I just dont play them enough.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:16 PM   #18
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I'm hardly what you might call a 'hard-core' player but I must say I hate threads like these. The whole point of challenging fights is that they're challenging. Remember back when Splitpaw came out and soloing the Pit Boss was a challenge? We had a bunch of whiny threads like these until SoE fixed things so that everybody could beat him. Bam! Sense of accomplishment gone. If nobody can beat a mob it's too tough. If you can't beat a mob it's your own fault. It seems that as soon as any content is introduced that can't be easily completed by people who can't play their class, the boards are thronged with bleats and whinges.It's not even as if those mobs are challenging anyway for [Removed for Content]'s sake. Soloing ^^^ is challenging. IFL2P.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:16 PM   #19
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Owain wrote:
(blah blah blah)
Agreed, to a point. Some mobs are going to be more difficult for different classes, especially solo, because of the way the class is built. Some of my guildies run around KC soloing the names, and they just so happen to be rogues, brawlers, or chanters. Rarely do our clerics, preds, or shamans try the same thing.However, if you're having problems killing solo mobs I doubt the problem is with the game.
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:57 AM   #20
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Nothing wrong with those mobs, I rolled over them with my Assassin.

But, I am a solo assassin, have been for 80 levels.  I'm using the hard earned lessons taught me in Old Mean Nek, about being a Glass Cannon. That means I am specced in a manner that makes the OMG DPS assassins laugh, and frankly I don't care. 

I have full AA in our stun hit.  19 seconds to back off and shove arrows in something's face.  I have full AA in enhancing Def Stance, and USE Def stance.  I have AA's in any area that enhances +parry or +def. 

I never rely on cheapshot.. it's a CA designed to whack trash, and not much else.  Fine if it works, but, not reliable enough to build a tough mob strategy around.

I generally run with about 62% avoidance.. more agi than dps builds by far.

My solo gear runs to survival.  I have more +def and +parry items.  I have 4 items that proc 300+ heals.  I have vampiric adorns on everything.  I use vitality breach, enfeebling, turgur poisons, to heal and to cut mob dps on me.

at times I swap out my offhand and use a defensive roundshield.. boosting my avoidance to around 69%.

I dont care about parsing, I care about winning my game and my battles.  An assassin can be specced to enhance that.  The assassin is far more versatile than people play it, and the first thing you need to do is quit reading any Assassin forums, and learn how to play one not perma-leashed to a tank.

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Old 03-31-2008, 05:17 AM   #21
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Lasai wrote:

I dont care about parsing, I care about winning my game and my battles.  An assassin can be specced to enhance that.  The assassin is far more versatile than people play it, and the first thing you need to do is quit reading any Assassin forums, and learn how to play one not perma-leashed to a tank.

QFT, this is true for any class really. Learn to play comes to mind.. wish more folks would figure that out.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:34 AM   #22
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that's also the "problem" ... you must have a solo gear, a group gear, a raid gear :p.

Still, assassins are not the easiest class to solo, they can do it, I did it but got tired of it. But when you can solo it means you know your class very well. I realised it with my coercer ... I start soloing named and I understand better my class, I start to really know how to react and which AA's to take on solo and raid fights.

I already had a good idea but I mean that now I understand it better ... so it is for assassins, since most strong attacks are positionnals or stealthed, you must fin ways to land them during the fight. At first you die a lot, but then the more you understand it the better you become. It's still chalenging and you might not succed every time but hey, if it was too easy, what would be the point?

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Old 03-31-2008, 10:26 AM   #23
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Lasai wrote:

Nothing wrong with those mobs, I rolled over them with my Assassin.

But, I am a solo assassin, have been for 80 levels.  I'm using the hard earned lessons taught me in Old Mean Nek, about being a Glass Cannon. That means I am specced in a manner that makes the OMG DPS assassins laugh, and frankly I don't care. 

I have full AA in our stun hit.  19 seconds to back off and shove arrows in something's face.  I have full AA in enhancing Def Stance, and USE Def stance.  I have AA's in any area that enhances +parry or +def. 

I never rely on cheapshot.. it's a CA designed to whack trash, and not much else.  Fine if it works, but, not reliable enough to build a tough mob strategy around.

I generally run with about 62% avoidance.. more agi than dps builds by far.

My solo gear runs to survival.  I have more +def and +parry items.  I have 4 items that proc 300+ heals.  I have vampiric adorns on everything.  I use vitality breach, enfeebling, turgur poisons, to heal and to cut mob dps on me.

at times I swap out my offhand and use a defensive roundshield.. boosting my avoidance to around 69%.

I dont care about parsing, I care about winning my game and my battles.  An assassin can be specced to enhance that.  The assassin is far more versatile than people play it, and the first thing you need to do is quit reading any Assassin forums, and learn how to play one not perma-leashed to a tank.

Very well said. T8 offers a lot of customization. As long as someone isnt a raid assassin he should spec for survivability. But even then there are AA mirrors now and its easy to have two gears available.The ^ mobs in skyfire are hard for some classes. I had the most problem with the warden. The spikes are huge sometimes. My monk has no problem at all with them.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:02 AM   #24
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Amana wrote:

yada yada yada

Just curious.Is there really anytime when you aren't asking for Content to be nerfed just because -you- arent able to complete it easily?

Seriously man.Its kind of sad.

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Old 03-31-2008, 11:18 AM   #25
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Lasai wrote:

Nothing wrong with those mobs, I rolled over them with my Assassin.

But, I am a solo assassin, have been for 80 levels.  I'm using the hard earned lessons taught me in Old Mean Nek, about being a Glass Cannon. That means I am specced in a manner that makes the OMG DPS assassins laugh, and frankly I don't care. 

I have full AA in our stun hit.  19 seconds to back off and shove arrows in something's face.  I have full AA in enhancing Def Stance, and USE Def stance.  I have AA's in any area that enhances +parry or +def. 

I never rely on cheapshot.. it's a CA designed to whack trash, and not much else.  Fine if it works, but, not reliable enough to build a tough mob strategy around.

I generally run with about 62% avoidance.. more agi than dps builds by far.

My solo gear runs to survival.  I have more +def and +parry items.  I have 4 items that proc 300+ heals.  I have vampiric adorns on everything.  I use vitality breach, enfeebling, turgur poisons, to heal and to cut mob dps on me.

at times I swap out my offhand and use a defensive roundshield.. boosting my avoidance to around 69%.

I dont care about parsing, I care about winning my game and my battles.  An assassin can be specced to enhance that.  The assassin is far more versatile than people play it, and the first thing you need to do is quit reading any Assassin forums, and learn how to play one not perma-leashed to a tank.

QFE

This is so true and with how easy it is to get a AA mirror in your house this is so easy to do.  My raid wizard has 2 speccs a full raid dps spec and a max survivability specc.  My max survivabilty adds a lot ~1k mit and increases my casting skills by about 50 reduceing resists greatly and adds a 650 point regening ward and about 10% avoidance.  If you are a non caster having multible sets of gear is a joke as you can run around with 6 36 slot strong boxes.  Even my wizzy carries 4, but they are the only caster to be able to group buff str.  I have about 70 pieces of gear I switch out all the time depending on the need, it really is as easy as teh poster I quoted said, you just need to learn how to play every aspect of your class, not just how to max your raid potentail.

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Old 03-31-2008, 11:22 AM   #26
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Amana wrote:

Have to say i'm rather angry right now, but i'm going to be as calm as I can during this post.  I have done the Elder Skyfire wurms and Wyverns without fail on my warden as well as my SK.  However these things are plain horse crap on my assassin.  Every time I attempt these creatures they destroy me doing 1100+ dmg. 

Right now a little while ago I had An Elder Skyfire Wyvern at 1% and some how it turns around resisting every single attack then doing 3k dmg to me inside of 4-5 seconds.  This is utterly ridiculous and really needs to be toned down since the quest involving these creatures is rated at "Soloable" non heroic.

Odd, i play an assassin on Kith as well and i had no problem with those mobs.  Did all the wastes quests solo... took forever as an assassin but i did it with little trouble.

Couple thoughts:

what poisons do you use while soloing?  I recommend Vitality Breach, Stupefying Poison (i'd rather stun the mobs then just have them hit me slower) and Gracelessness and definitely use lifetap proc'ing weapons like soulfire, etc as well as the lifetap adornments on your weapons and bow.

What stance are you fighting in?  Assassins do not tank.  We also don't have a huge amount of HP.  Get your agility as high as possible and remain in defensive if you find yourself being splattered a lot.

Range attacks always always always.  Snare is your friend.  When soloing, if i don't lead off with my side or back range attack, followed by double shot and improvised weapon, i will usually backstab as hard as possible, toss an HO and jump back while using our root. Fire off the double arrow attack and then auto-attacks until root breaks.  snare and continue to auto-arrow atk.

Like someone else posted, Cheapshot isn't worth its salt.  Even with maxed out AA for it, i've had it FAIL (thanks soe, dunno what you did to it but it's virtually useless) more times then i've had it work.  Just not worth the headache and frustration of using cheapshot.  It's supposed to be a means to an end to help assassins but after SOE dorked it, it's as reliable as a solar powered flashlight.  Save your aa's for something else like defensive stance.

Are all of your abilities at least AD3?  If not, farm it out til you get them all ad3.  AD1's stink.

I think the mobs are fine for difficulty.  just take a moment to re-examine your facilities and if you've done everything here as i've described... then i dont know what to tell you.

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Old 04-02-2008, 02:22 PM   #27
Effie

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I have nothing much to add that hasn't already been said.

I don't think the problem lies with the mobs in Skyfire as I have solo'd them just fine on my assassin.

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Old 04-06-2008, 11:05 AM   #28
Levzter

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Dont touch any mobs difficulty.... Learn to Fight them, not just try to burn them.... If i use the simple method they eat me alive.... Learn diferent technics.........

I play this game for the challenge....

its boring when you just burn everything up easily........

If you want an easy game, Go play W.O.W.       .....

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Old 04-07-2008, 03:05 PM   #29
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Ohiv wrote:
Lasai wrote:

I dont care about parsing, I care about winning my game and my battles.  An assassin can be specced to enhance that.  The assassin is far more versatile than people play it, and the first thing you need to do is quit reading any Assassin forums, and learn how to play one not perma-leashed to a tank.

QFT, this is true for any class really. Learn to play comes to mind.. wish more folks would figure that out.
And this is true for every class, I have made a lot of tests before I came up with my current specs and a tactic that lets me kill about everything but <^^^> names in RoK (overland not instances). And none of those specs are what the raid community recommends or is recommended on the class forums. My raid dps is not where it "should be" according to the parser obsessed but I do not care... The recommendations on those boards are nothing but a way to dumb down the average player to a fixed set of specs, set playstyle and maximum DPS parse...the problem is, it is not doing any good because they're play style is probably totally different the the original players style (the one that came up with the "magical" numbers) and most of the recommendations are for raid setup and have little or no relevance soloing. The common spouted nonsense that the best setup for a character for raids is also the best setup for soloing is just that..nonsense. Learn to play your character and forget the cookie cutter recommendations and you will be surprised what you can do. Experiment with different setups and find your own way...if you raid and want to solo you may have to re-spec or find a middle way....of course, if you or your guild are a follower of the almighty parser god you may be "screwed" doing so.J.C.
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Old 04-07-2008, 04:24 PM   #30
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All of the recomended wizard AAs are based around raiding and it says just as much, ask in the wizard forums about soloing and it will be a totally different asnwer.  Soem people just love to twist words to meet thier own desire. If you solo who cares about the parse, thats right no one cares if you solo with a 800 dps or 300 dps, because you are only limiting yourself in how long it takes to kill something.  now if you are in a raid then yes as a wizard you need to be dps specced as you are there to kill stuff as fast as you can, then agian they came out with this item, the AA mirror that allows you to swap between 2 different AA specs   omfgwtfbbq I know it is awesome, so now you can have a raid specc and a non raid spec. 

This way you can appease the "parser gods" /rolleyes.

I bet I can kill everything in my raid dps spec on my wizard that you can in your uber massive time spent testing spec.  Ability to play the class is > than AAs.  Oh and that does include <^^^> as long as I can root them, Doom in KJ is a total joke as he is one fo the only overland <^^^>.  The trash in Cheltish went down pretty fast in my dps specc while gettign the epic quest starter it took me about an hour solo.

Please inform us of more of this nonesense you speak of as 90% of the wizards who agree with the raid dps setup, will also agree that sta spec is very useful for soloing, as is 10 points in magi shielding, but neither of those is in the max dps spec.

 Oh and one of the formost wizards who speaks of AA specs solos just about anythign you possibly can, he even got banned for aurgueing wiht a GM about how easy it was for him to duo the epic x4 in KP with his boxed coercer due to SoEs stupid caster AI which is basically a joke.  Yeah he has no clue how to solo.  The only mobs I cant solo are the ones immune to roots. 

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