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Old 09-16-2005, 10:28 PM   #181
SlashnGut

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We'll keep many of em? No wonder you kiss SOE's [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] so much - you're an SOE wannabe.
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Old 09-16-2005, 11:01 PM   #182
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Yes nose..we all agree to that every time we log on thanks for the obvious. Though the game is a ever-changing  thing, one would assume that such drastic changes (total revamp of the game) would be taken under advisement of hmm, I don’t know, maybe the paying customers? I played eq1 for years and years and yes there where some major changes but nothing that I recall ever was so drastic. I have more then one 50 character and had to literally re-learn the class because the changes are so extreme that its almost like a whole new character. I don’t mind the challenge if there was a multitude of benefits to the changes but it seems like SOE just wanted to nerf most if not all classes and make the game no where near as appealing.  I know change is hard. That isn’t a concept that I am not aware of. But hmm, maybe if it isn’t broke don’t fix it and if it is broke fix it and leave everything else alone. Shrug, but who am I just a lowly customer, and god knows they are never right. But hey way to point out the oblivious, I have to congratulate you on a job well done pointing out a screen everyone logs in past on a almost daily basis..

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Old 09-16-2005, 11:23 PM   #183
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Nosewarts wrote:


HereticNovalis wrote:

@Nose

 

i am talking about the changes and their results - in that case, u can surely compare ac2 and eq2

ac2 went through several minor and 2 major combat-revamps, and with every "great change of combats" and "new challenge for everyone" and not to forget "lots of new ways to have fun" people left the game.

i don't hope eq2 will follow this trail ...  tho maybe SoE doesn't care about 1k ppl leaving SMILEY

Message Edited by HereticNovalis on 09-16-2005 09:14 AM



Well as someone who was in AC2 during beta and after launch, I can tell you that the game was a total mess from beta to live.  It was a dead world and there simply wasn't any content to draw people in and keep them there.  Apart from all the hype, AC1 was 10x the game that AC2 ever was and it's continued viability prove it. AC2 underwent constant changes just to try and save a boat that was sinking right out the home port. By comparison, EQ2 has been successful and is being fine-tuned.
 
I have no fear of EQ2 going that route because they are gaining people just as some leave. Just look at how populated the zones have been since before the expansion.  We'll see in a couple months if those numbers hold or they lose interest, but I expect we'll keep a lot of them.


Obviously a dullard, kiss-up like yourself, Nancy, has no idea what "fine-tuned" means.   This combat downgrade isn't a fine-tune, its a major change in direction.  And how does someone know what class to choose if the role of their class suffers a major change after the choice has been made? The concept of cause and effect is another in a long list of things you apparently don't understand. 

Folks, Nosewarts is either a very, very ignorant individual or someone that gets his only joy in life by reveling in other people's discomfort and dissatisfaction.

We all have been online and have heard and experienced the nightmares of groups getting wiped out even with tanks and two healers and dps on mobs that used to be handled without too much trouble.  This is obviously SOE trying to turn EQ2 into EQ.  This is a pointless and pernicious change and the people it hurts the most are the casual/  role play people.  The people with jobs and families who can't and won't spend 20hours+ a week to play a game. 

Because of these changes casual players will be denied content and it does not make sense that SOE would be so obtuse not to see that.  The power gamers they are trying to attract will dump EQ2 as soon as Vanguard comes out and all that will be left in EQ2 will be those casual players that didn't leave, but how many casual players will be left in EQ2 by then?  

WOW's graphics maybe inferior and the story behind the game may be thin, but at least people who seek entertainment while maintaining a household will have a game they can play and not suffer in their progress because they can't put in over half a work week to do it. Perhaps its time to dump SOE altogether and move on to a company that knows  what its target demographic should be and what to do to keep them happy.

I should say, my problem with these changes is purely the combat downgrade.  The expansion itself is quite visually stunning and the quests are intriguing, but all of that is irrelevant when our classes have deneutered to point of ineffectiveness. Major tweaking needs to begin immediately to remedy the disasterous changes brought on by the downgrade.

Message Edited by Arinwulf on 09-16-2005 12:25 PM

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Old 09-17-2005, 01:38 AM   #184
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Boy, I think it must be tough to be a SOE developer - discouraging to hear all this very negative feedback. Just some thoughts on that: it's obvious that a tremendous amount of work went into this version. I think it's incredible that it has worked as well as it has (in terms of bugs - game design is another matter). Though there were a few glitches in the first day or two, I have had no significant problems playing since the change. Having done programming, I think that is an amazing achievement. It also must be very had for them to settle on design. I bet you put 100 EQ players in a room and there'll be 110 opinions about how the game should be. I'd hate to be the object of that firestorm!
 
I'm definitely not trying to say that those who hate what's happened to their character are wrong to be unhappy and to express that. That is such a personal thing. As I mentioned in a previous post, the only part i find really bothersome is, as someone else mentioned today, going through Nek Forest and being attacked by every ankle biter out there. Just for fun I run from the bridge to the docks (I'm a level 30 Assassin), which used to be very easy. Now I almost die. I can of course do it in sneak but where's the challenge in that SMILEY So it's actually easier for me to spend my time in the higher zones (spent the last few days in Enchanted Lands) because the lowest mob there gives me some ok exp. Other than that point, I'm ok with the changes - it's sort of fun to see what works now and what doesn't.
 
Now, I might grumbble more when I try my other 3 toons (Paladin, Wizard, Inquisitor). But lately I've been concentrating on my Rat Assassin because he looks so harmless but packs a wholop. He can still solo fine but has to be careful of certain differences (such as being slaughered by heroic mobs 8 levels lower).
 
Anyway, I do feel for the developers - they are probably in a no win situation. If I were they, I would have a tough time reading this feedback.
 
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:00 AM   #185
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I think you have missed the point. Most people are not complaining about the content and the beautiful art. I would find I hard to believe that anyone would not give credit to the amazing graphics and hard work it would be to develop something like this game.

 

Now on the other hand when something as drastic as the changes are put into effect you have to wonder what was going on that day in developer school that they decided they are going to turn eq2 upside down, shake it around and hope when all the pieces hit the floor everyone is going to be happy again. I notice that a lot of the people who are not unhappy play mid to low level characters. Nothing against mid to low level characters but, maybe its just me, but I have invested time into more then one character for a combined 100’s of level and to have them totally revamp things is a travesty. Keep in mind they tested all these changes on the test server so this wasn’t something they didn’t originally get some limited feedback on. I kept up with the test server updates like clockwork anticipating something great to come from the labratory testing that was going on over on test. From what I saw being looked into and the feedback from the players on the test server, I was hopeful and even will go as far to say excited. Maybe that’s it, maybe I was to hopeful that SOE was on the right track with things and was going to get it right.

 

I will commend SOE on making games like EQ, and EQ2 I have been a faithful player for more then 5 years combined between the 2..Sad I love the ever-crack but I am stirred so that I have to even reduce myself to a forum and a post.

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Old 09-17-2005, 03:23 AM   #186
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sharpteath wrote:

Yes nose..we all agree to that every time we log on thanks for the obvious. Though the game is a ever-changing  thing, one would assume that such drastic changes (total revamp of the game) would be taken under advisement of hmm, I don’t know, maybe the paying customers? I played eq1 for years and years and yes there where some major changes but nothing that I recall ever was so drastic. I have more then one 50 character and had to literally re-learn the class because the changes are so extreme that its almost like a whole new character. I don’t mind the challenge if there was a multitude of benefits to the changes but it seems like SOE just wanted to nerf most if not all classes and make the game no where near as appealing.  I know change is hard. That isn’t a concept that I am not aware of. But hmm, maybe if it isn’t broke don’t fix it and if it is broke fix it and leave everything else alone. Shrug, but who am I just a lowly customer, and god knows they are never right. But hey way to point out the oblivious, I have to congratulate you on a job well done pointing out a screen everyone logs in past on a almost daily basis..




Does the EULA state Sony must consult you before implementing any changes? Count yourself lucky they even allow you to participate in the process via the Test server.
 
Check out the DoF board. Plenty of other people in your position have adapted to the changes just fine. I wonder why you are having problems? You should be well prepared if you were weaned on EQ1.
 
And the reason that EQ1 never had any drastic changes is because the game's engine required an entire overhaul in order to change core aspects of gameplay, otherwise it'd break the code.  Go back to EQ1 boards and do a search in 2001 when they announced EQ2 was entering development and why.  The game you play now is the overhaul that they wanted to do for EQ1 for years.  That's the whole point really...in the predecessor every negative aspect of the game remains to this day because change is not possible from a technical standpoint. I think that's a negative.  EQ2 is adaptive and can be modified significantly because the engine was built to allow it.
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Old 09-17-2005, 04:42 AM   #187
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If you resign yourself to being satisfied with these change so be it. I don’t agree and I am using this forum to voice my opinion. If its your only purpose to try and degrade and belittle people for those opinions. Well you have made your true nature known to everyone who reads these posts. I am not happy with the changes, I don’t have to be happy with the changes and thus this is an open “forum” to voice my opinion. Go and bash people somewhere where your opinion is valued. I would think you options to be limited but good luck friend. I am not satisfied with the changes but you will never see me say I cant handle them. I would hope that SOE would make these changes in the best interest of the paying gaming community that makes up the game. You affirm the point that this doesn’t matter. If you cant find fault in that statement. Well.. I will leave it at that, because i will never be accused of pointing out the Obvious. Thanks for your great imput.Obvious

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Old 09-17-2005, 06:04 AM   #188
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Heh, I like how you point out you are stating an opinion but I suppose that doesn't extend to people like me who are happy with the game and the changes. How ironic, considering these are the forums for active subs to post in.  I expect not to here from you on these boards in 30 days then? Nah, you'll still be here partaking in the evercrack.
 
See you next month!
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Old 09-17-2005, 03:39 PM   #189
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This has probably already been said...but here I go. First off, can someone explain the class and race effects now? I have an erudite troubadour and I feel her stats have been effected. Am I right in my thought?
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Old 09-17-2005, 07:04 PM   #190
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Nosewarts if you spent as much time playing the game as you do trolling the boards thinking you have to challenge everyone else's opinion maybe you would experience some of the same difficulties the rest of us are seeing.  Who made you the expert on my character and what type of gameplay I enjoy.  Since the update the type of play I enjoy is either limited or no longer an option.  Who appointed you official cheerleader anyway?
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Old 09-17-2005, 08:31 PM   #191
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mrp1247 wrote:
Nosewarts if you spent as much time playing the game as you do trolling the boards thinking you have to challenge everyone else's opinion maybe you would experience some of the same difficulties the rest of us are seeing.  Who made you the expert on my character and what type of gameplay I enjoy.  Since the update the type of play I enjoy is either limited or no longer an option.  Who appointed you official cheerleader anyway?


Eh, trolling would be what you and your whining friends are doing. Patch after patch, simply complaining for sake of your own inability to adapt and persevere. These forums are for active paying subscribers to dicuss aspects of the game -- and yes that means challenging peoples' opinions too (so get over it), so if you people complain incessantly with "EQ teh sux0rz!" and "I quit" posts month after month with no follow up, apparently you are trolling and only here to bash a game you are willing to dutifully pay your $15 each month for.

As for playing the game, if you played as much as me you would have adapted by now and found that the game is much improved. You apparently did what the rest of your friends did: log in, aggro the first heroic you see, die, and wonder why you suck now. Try clearing all your hotkeys and spell/skill lines, reading every one of them again, adjusting your hotkeys accordingly, change your tactics, and do the same for every piece of equip that you have. Considering most of you were complaining the loudest 12 hours after launch, it's obvious many of you didn't do that.

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Old 09-17-2005, 09:38 PM   #192
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I see noone has answered or commented about my previous post in this thread. Anyway, I'll take it my thoughts are right. Like I said before, realized a change with my erudite troubadour. I feel it's not a good change. Maybe I should try harder understanding it, but right now...eh. I mean, I just basically started to play Everquest 2 and the gameplay has changed. So what I did get used to in my short time of playing...I must discard and learn again, kinda. That's the main point in this post. Also, I don't like how yopu now must be behind or beside a gnoll to use the spell Gnoll Master's Sinister Strike. This is all just my oppinion.
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Old 09-18-2005, 01:07 AM   #193
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To use the Gnoll Laster's Sinister Strike effectively when soloing,  cheap shot it, while cheap shot is  charging, turn off auto attack. Now the Gnoll is stunned run to side or back  , and lay down the smack. You probably already know this, it can be a pain, but I'm used to it having used this  tactic for all flank, back attacks.
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Old 09-18-2005, 03:15 AM   #194
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Thx for the help, I just still wish I could just stand in one place and smack/stab the stinking gnolls with my spells.
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Old 09-18-2005, 01:13 PM   #195
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Well as someone who was in AC2 during beta and after launch, I can tell you that the game was a total mess from beta to live.  It was a dead world and there simply wasn't any content to draw people in and keep them there.  Apart from all the hype, AC1 was 10x the game that AC2 ever was and it's continued viability prove it. AC2 underwent constant changes just to try and save a boat that was sinking right out the home port. By comparison, EQ2 has been successful and is being fine-tuned.
 
I have no fear of EQ2 going that route because they are gaining people just as some leave. Just look at how populated the zones have been since before the expansion.  We'll see in a couple months if those numbers hold or they lose interest, but I expect we'll keep a lot of them.
 
Please take off the rose color glasses . Sony has been loosing subscribers http://www.mmorpgchart.com/Chart2_files/Subscriptions_11327_image001.gif you can see it hit a high of 375kish subsribers and drop down to a low of 275kish subsribers . This is pre update . If you look at eq1 which ibelieve is 6 years old now ? It has 150kish more subsribers . So this game is not sucessfull. This game should have built off the eq1 hype and reached higher numbers .  If a sequal can not do that then  it means its loosing its brand name .  Sony on a whole is loosing its brand name in the mmorpg market. They have had 1 failure (plantside with 50-60k players) two okay players (eq2 and swg) and one sucess (eq1)
 
Not only that but eq2 has had  many major  screw ups
 
1) New tradeskill setup 3 days before launch that was untested and broken for many classes
 
2) The huge solo revamp in january / febuary
 
3) the huge crafting  revamp  which still left  some of the classes in the gutter (like sages)
 
4) The huge combat revamp .
 
5) the training skill additions
 
Sony has had 4 major changes to the game  in less than a year  and one major screw up right before going live .
 
I don't see how you can defend them . They are constantly messing up and even with this huge revamp its a mixed bag. Some skills that are vital to my character are missing  like the whole summoner's mark line . There is no upgrade, its only app1 ,   stone skin only app1  and many others (There is a list in the conjuror forum started by me )
 
I know some of you want to pretend the sky isn't falling but you should learn that instead of pretending everything is fine you should voice valid and constructive feedback so that things can be perfect or [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] near close .
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Old 09-18-2005, 10:47 PM   #196
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So the game in my opinion is horrible and not even close to an rpg. It is random abilities with named classes. But has anyone seen how annoying it is to cancel the subscription, as well as uninstall the game. It is like they been taking hints from AOL. I am sure I will be soon getting annoying emails asking me to return, promising me things and such. Just a 2 cent final word as I make my last post. EQ2's pathetic attempt in a online game, and how it baffled us all. How can one game make so many mistakes. Peace ./..
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Old 09-19-2005, 12:37 AM   #197
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I have been playing for a few days since the changes and am adjusting just fine - The one thing I have noticed as a fury and its not a complaint as I am sure things are still being adjusted here and there. Is that I think I am really outleveling my damage spells to quickly - I have a Chill (Cold ) spell that I upgraded to Master II and Smite - Since I have very few actual damage spells the ones that I have get alot of my attention. I Solo quite a bit. To get to the point at level 22 it is blue already and Smite of course is gray but I have nothing to replace them with - Not sure what is coming next now.  Looking forward to good surprises.
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:14 AM   #198
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hehe funny,
SOE wnated to make grouping more attractive, but with the nerfing of healers and tanks, soloing is even more important than pre patch.
 
i am glad they adjusted the harclave-buff at least, though the HoT and regeneration-rates are still only 1/4th of the original value and there is no damage-buff (at least my guardian doesn't get one)
 
see:
when grouping is too difficult cos of relatively small chance of success in killing group/raidmobs, and when an individual isn't able to complete a quest until he's at least 8 levels above intended, people start grinding solo again. everytime i log into the game (and i played a lot the last days) i saw very few groups, NO RAIDS, no writs done, no heritages done (if you run across a few zones and all major name-mobs are there .. alive ... for 3 days ...). most people go for soloing, either harclave or DoF, depending on level.
 
if you are a support-class player / a healer you better take some days off playing. soloing is hard and very few ppl are willing to group anyways ...
 
still waiting for an adjustment ..
yours
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ps:
the expansion seems to be great (aside the combat changes SMILEY ), though i spent 95% of my online-time in harclave or at crafting. my journal contains 55 quests (15 in thundering steppes) that i hardly can't complete due to these changes. man i've been lucky when i hit 29/30, so i could run past those damned giants and wolves and lions in TS to get to the places where i have to go for my quests .. now even 21ish undead critters and bears aggro me and i simply have not the time to kill them just to complete a quest - and this is the reason why ppl go for solo-grinding again ...
 
oh, and speaking of increased XP for 1 week .. is there a /command to get the benefit? i tried harclave w/o vita, killed a group of 6 lvl33 mobs (me being 31) and got 0,6% ... never took a closer look at xp-gains. maybe i am confusing something ... in that case: ignore this question SMILEY
 
conclusion:
DoF = great (i like the bottle ;D and the sultan's palace of course! ... and the desert ;D )
Combat changes = deadly for groups and raids - and for newbies too (have a look at the Down Below .. lvl 6 heroic one and two up mobs ..... where to go as a newb to get some xp?!)
Outgreying of mobs = deadly for solo-questing
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:50 AM   #199
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I just came back to EQ2 as we, who left and newcomers, were offered 7 days free to see if we wanted to come back again.
 
Let's face it SOE is trying to deal with WoW and 4 Million subscribers. They have to try and make the game more appealing.
 
There is no question that WoW is a lot of fun but it is also a much easier game than EQ2.  Alas your opportunity to gain good lood from mob drop is higher in WoW than EQ2. I am a soloer ( I did the group and raid thing in EQ 1) and the drops are definiately better in WoW than EQ2 although EQ2 has improved since I was last on.
 
When I first played the Isle of Refuge was fun -- lots of quests etc. but when I hit Freeport it was all down hill and I couldn't solo much and money was impossible to get. Now I have noticed ( and I am not very high level -- not even 20 yet) that it is easier to solo and earn money.
 
However, there are still tons of negatives which cannot be changed -- Freeport is a truly dull city -- you have to walk long distance to get somewhere ( and a lot of the zones are empty) -- WoW does a better job with city building than EQ2 has but I know it can not be changed.
 
I am not sure if I will stay or not -- a lot will depend on what the next week is like and what I can accomplish soloing.
 
But the changes are necessary to be competitive with WoW -- you can't ignore 4 millions subscribers and when I see big empty zones in EQ2 it tells me that the game does not have anything close to the subscriber numbers of WoW and frankly I doubt if they even have 1 mllions subscribers.
 
Remember SOE is looking ahead at WoW and its numbers -- they need to appeal to the people who play WoW. A good indications of the numbers is that WoW still sells for $49.95 and EQ2 is half of that.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:44 AM   #200
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jvd wrote:


Well as someone who was in AC2 during beta and after launch, I can tell you that the game was a total mess from beta to live.  It was a dead world and there simply wasn't any content to draw people in and keep them there.  Apart from all the hype, AC1 was 10x the game that AC2 ever was and it's continued viability prove it. AC2 underwent constant changes just to try and save a boat that was sinking right out the home port. By comparison, EQ2 has been successful and is being fine-tuned.
 
I have no fear of EQ2 going that route because they are gaining people just as some leave. Just look at how populated the zones have been since before the expansion.  We'll see in a couple months if those numbers hold or they lose interest, but I expect we'll keep a lot of them.
 
Please take off the rose color glasses . Sony has been loosing subscribers http://www.mmorpgchart.com/Chart2_files/Subscriptions_11327_image001.gif you can see it hit a high of 375kish subsribers and drop down to a low of 275kish subsribers . This is pre update . If you look at eq1 which ibelieve is 6 years old now ? It has 150kish more subsribers . So this game is not sucessfull. This game should have built off the eq1 hype and reached higher numbers .  If a sequal can not do that then  it means its loosing its brand name .  Sony on a whole is loosing its brand name in the mmorpg market. They have had 1 failure (plantside with 50-60k players) two okay players (eq2 and swg) and one sucess (eq1)
 
 


/yawn
 
Another person cites a site that admits on its FAQ page that it bases its numbers on estimations, guesswork, and rumors.  Last update in June.  Great source! But then again, so are tabloids.
 
When you can reference solid data on sub numbers, please provide the links. kthx.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:47 AM   #201
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Maroger wrote:
I just came back to EQ2 as we, who left and newcomers, were offered 7 days free to see if we wanted to come back again.
 
Let's face it SOE is trying to deal with WoW and 4 Million subscribers. They have to try and make the game more appealing.
 
There is no question that WoW is a lot of fun but it is also a much easier game than EQ2.  Alas your opportunity to gain good lood from mob drop is higher in WoW than EQ2. I am a soloer ( I did the group and raid thing in EQ 1) and the drops are definiately better in WoW than EQ2 although EQ2 has improved since I was last on.
 
When I first played the Isle of Refuge was fun -- lots of quests etc. but when I hit Freeport it was all down hill and I couldn't solo much and money was impossible to get. Now I have noticed ( and I am not very high level -- not even 20 yet) that it is easier to solo and earn money.
 
However, there are still tons of negatives which cannot be changed -- Freeport is a truly dull city -- you have to walk long distance to get somewhere ( and a lot of the zones are empty) -- WoW does a better job with city building than EQ2 has but I know it can not be changed.
 
I am not sure if I will stay or not -- a lot will depend on what the next week is like and what I can accomplish soloing.
 
But the changes are necessary to be competitive with WoW -- you can't ignore 4 millions subscribers and when I see big empty zones in EQ2 it tells me that the game does not have anything close to the subscriber numbers of WoW and frankly I doubt if they even have 1 mllions subscribers.
 
Remember SOE is looking ahead at WoW and its numbers -- they need to appeal to the people who play WoW. A good indications of the numbers is that WoW still sells for $49.95 and EQ2 is half of that.



Oh, they have 4 mil subs now? I thought it was 2 mil last week. Maybe it'll be 8 mil next week! You must get your data from JVD up above. [Removed for Content]
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Old 09-19-2005, 12:20 PM   #202
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solid data?

go get a raid-group and succeed SMILEY

/yawn

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Old 09-19-2005, 01:24 PM   #204
MindParadox

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one slight problem, and no, these are not the only classes like this,
 
ive tested iwth ALL the priest classes, and i am the tank referred to in this letter i am about to paste to you
 
so far, all the priest classes have at least one thing fundamentally wrong with them, ill let the letter speak for itself
 

I have not been one of the negative players dreading and whining about the recent combat updates. In fact, I ignored the forums and the cries of "nerf" and jumped on the test server to try my hand at the combat changes. I play a level 50 high elf warden on live and wanted to see how things were going to change, so I started a high elf priest and eventually worked my way to druid. While on test, I liked the changes I saw and was looking forward to the day they went live to play my high level druid and try out all of his new abilities.

When the changes finally went live, however, I realized that my entire class has been changed. I was given a line of root spells that replaced my only debuffs and all of my buffs changed. I am happy to see some of the changes - I can now distribute my buffs better because less use concentration and my spells are arranged into lines with increasing power that shows the development of the character over time. With my class being redefined, I have been giving myself time to adjust to the changes and the implications that go along with them; I have been finding my place in solo, small group, and full group scenarios as well as filling my new role as a warden.

At first I had a hard time adjusting, but was gradually beginning to know and even enjoy playing my class again. However, several experiences recently have caused me to lose faith in my abilities as a healer and as an asset to a group when playing as a warden. First, and probably most importantly, I was being outhealed by a level 35 templar this evening. He was using a master 2 version of a level 32 spell (from his arch healing line) and was healing for approximately 850-950 points; I was using an adept 3 version of my level 46 spell (from my arch healing line) and was healing for approximately 430 with a 50-60 point regen every second for 12 seconds. After doing the math (and assuming that my spell is actually lasting the full 12 seconds and healing every second of that) I am getting an average heal of 1110 while the templar was averaging 900 per heal. For some reason, our arch healing and healing lines were not stacking so I backed off for a fight to let the templar try out some of his heals and was surprised to see that he was healing more effectively with his lines than I was with mine. The opponent was the same level and type and the group did nothing different during the fight, but our level 35 templar was out-healing me easily. His heals were more efficient (using less power for the amount being healed) and he was using power at the same rate (in percentage) as I was while my power pool was more than twice the size of his (3700 to 1600).

In addition to this, his wisdom was in the 80s, while mine was over 330. Having a high amount of wisdom does not seem to increase the healing amounts of a priest or push it more toward the high end of its potential healing, nor does it massively increase power pool. It is supposed to increase resists, but while the numbers go up, I have seen no significant increase in my ability to resist or mitigate effects. So I see no point in equipping gear that increases wisdom or having buffs that increase a stat that does virtually nothing.

Now, to be perfectly honest, I like EverQuest II. I enjoy playing the game and interacting in the community on my server. I could handle not being the best healer, not being the most efficient, and having the archetype's primary ability do almost nothing, but I have even begun to feel completely useless to my groups. My buffs have all changed; most of my buffs now increase mitigation, wisdom, and power pools (none of which seems to be the deciding factor for battles). My only debuffs have become root spells, which are useless to groups with melee classes involved - and how often do you get a solid group without a melee class? I have a few useful spells left such as Duststorm, which adds to group defense and has a 20% knockdown proc, but my overall group usefulness seems to have drastically decreased with my healing potency and efficiency.

I enjoy being a druid; I love the concept of being a warden - of protecting, curing, and healing my friends with the powers of nature; I love having a great play experience in groups by being a contributing member to our successes, whether they end in treasure or debt. But, if I am no longer a viable force in doing the things that define my class, then I will have to abandon the character that I have raised since I started the game. I believe that there are ways to solve this, and that I will not have to give up on the warden class I have worked so hard to understand and play to its fullest... don't let me down.

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Old 09-19-2005, 01:31 PM   #205
HereticNovalis

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same for tank-classes :/
 
but who needs healers and tanks? ... ^^
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:21 PM   #206
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CyranoDK wrote:

Things highligthed in yellow.

Are commented on right below in red.

 

EverQuest II Producer’s Letter – September 2005

It's been a couple of months since we've done one of these and there's more going on in EverQuest II than there ever has been before.  While we've added all kinds of new places to play in and quests to do, this time we're more focused on the overall feel of combat and encounters.

For those of you who keep up with the forums, some of this is going to be things that you've heard before.  For those who haven't, some of this may come as a surprise. 

Many people will be relearning parts of their characters, getting used to new spell lines and working with altered buffs.  That's a lot for us to ask, and we realize that.  As a way of thanking you for sticking through the effect this will have on your first few sessions, we'll be running a week of Bonus Adventure Experience for characters under level 50 beginning the day that Desert of Flames launches.

"We want as many as possible to get to level 50.. When they have nothing else to do, they will buy the expansion and make us more money"

I'd like to take a few minutes to talk about what it is exactly that's going on with the game, what you can expect to see on Tuesday 9/13, and our reasons for bringing you these combat changes.

The Goals of the Changes to Combat

Our goals in pursuing these changes to combat were originally aimed at addressing Character Diversity, Game Rewardability, and the overall challenge present in EverQuest II. 

Along the way, we realized that we had a unique opportunity to enhance other parts of combat and to improve on other parts of the game as well. Most notably, these changes affect the Encounter and Death systems and are aimed at providing more chances for positive interactions between people.

"Force people to group. They can't do Jack S... solo"

When You Log In…

What's going to happen on (and after) the first day of Desert of Flames going live (currently scheduled for Tuesday, Sept. 13) is that you're going to log in and will be asked to "Respec" your character, which means you'll need to choose new Trainings, Traits, Traditions, and Mastery Strikes.

You're going to see that you have gained some abilities, and that others have changed around entirely.  Some spell lines that weren't primary or secondary abilities (e.g. even better see invis!) no longer exist.  Their lines have been shortened to reduce spellbook clutter.

Instead you get small upgrades to exsisting spells every 4th to 6th level and a lot of spells are on the same timer, so less cluttered hot-bars, yes... but a lot more spells in your spellbook.

Class Diversity

First and foremost, we want to ensure that each class has a fun and fulfilling role to play.

"You can't do Jack S... without a group, so ALL will be needed"

In addressing Class Diversity, we wanted to place a greater emphasis on people's final Subclass selection, focusing less on Archetypal roles than previously.  As one example, very few people start a new game and think to themselves, "I want to be a Generic Mage!"   That's a fun stage to grow through, but not a destination in itself.

If a person wants to be a Necromancer, they want to be a Necromancer.  There are certain images that conjures up.  The same thing applies when you say the word "Enchanter" to someone who is familiar with EverQuest.  It's our responsibility to ensure that the expectation is met, and the absence of certain abilities is not jarring. 

In some cases, we've added entirely new spell lines to classes, and in others we've made them the game-wide experts in existing lines, where previously everyone in their archetype may have had an approximately equal ability.  For other classes, we may have just bumped an emphasis slightly in one direction or another.

Abilities and Items as Rewards

In many cases in the current system, spell and combat art upgrades do not always feel like satisfying upgrades.  We've changed the system and all of the spells and arts in it with the goal of making sure that this is the case.   Getting a new or upgraded primary ability should be one of the most proud moments of a character's career.  Those are the moments people look forward to.  They need to have meaning.

You get small upgrades to your spells every 4th to 6th level (Reducing clutter? Yeah right)

The same thing can be applied to items.  The fact that items changed their stats as people leveled up made the game more confusing than it needed to be.  It was a very interesting dynamic to those who prefer to crunch numbers, but once a person needs a calculator to determine if an item is an upgrade, it loses some of the appeal.

Now your gear cons either Red = cannot use, White = can be used, or Grey = worthless. To further simplifie matters all mitigation stats have been removed from accessories (rings, earings, ect ect)

General Combat Challenge

We had two issues with the general feel of combat that we wanted to address. 

As a result of the existing combat system, we've essentially had to make every creature red to be a challenge to a group.  In addition to being too limiting in terms of what is available for any group to do in the game, it also leaves the /consider ("color con") system less than entirely meaningful.   For a sufficiently advanced group, there's really just "red…and everything else."

Most of the combat system changes themselves target "you vs. a yellow or harder."   You should be hearing a good many classes saying that they're noticing little difference when soloing the things they've soloed in the past, since the majority of people weren't soloing things far past their level.

Note the "since the majority of people weren't soloing things far past their level".. Now its close to impossible to solo ANYTHING above your level. Not to mention that mobs on your own level will most likely kick your butt.

The idea is that there should be different targets for different strengths and formations of groups. Fighting orange and red creatures needs to be a Very Hard Thing, not the standard, and that system needs to make sense all the way through all of the /con's.

Note the "group"... You won't be soloing much now... except green cons.

Additionally, at the high levels, certain professions could make themselves nearly invulnerable due to there being too many, too generous skill modifying buffs. This evidenced itself primarily in stacking certain buff lines to make tanks invulnerable to all but the most difficult raid targets. This caused us to have to make some truly insane high end content in order to provide people with any amount of satisfying challenge.

THIS is the REAL reason for the changes... Too bad it make the game very hard and unfun all the way to the higher levels.

Naturally, as a part of these changes, since there are no longer classes in a state of invulnerability, the NPCs' abilities which only existed to counter it have been put to rest, and combat should feel like a much more natural, consistent, and fun challenge.

Content will be more challenging to the average person, and we will be permanently increasing the experience gains where this is the case. 

In some cases, creatures intended for solo players were previously less than challenging, and frequently unrewarding.  We're aiming to make them a challenge that rewards appropriately.

Greater challenge and risk merits greater rewards.  There will be "solo" creatures that are now a greater challenge, and the rewards earned from them will rise to match.

As said before.. Solo will be a LOT harder. And please note the " " around solo... Yeah right... if you want to get anywere you WILL need a group.

NPC Abilities in Combat

One other thing that exists on the live servers today is that NPCs often unload all of their power in a barrage at the beginning of a fight. This made all of the excitement and challenge of any given fight happen right at the beginning.  That unevenness will no longer exist.  NPC abilities are there to be an interesting challenge that occurs during the entirety of combat, and not something that if the average person gets in the way of, they instantly fall down and die.

More Things to Fight

The new combat rules let us provide a wider level range of NPCs that present the possibility for reward to you, at all levels.  NPCs no longer "grey out" (providing neither challenge nor reward) as quickly.

Now you wont grey out mobs as fast as you did before, so yes.. its still possible to solo, because there will be more mobs below your level now.

Improved Buff Usability

In many cases, we had different kinds of abilities that characters would have to choose between.  We used Concentration as the means by which a person would be told, "Sorry - You can't have this buff up while you have that buff up."  In cases such as that, Concentration is frequently no longer the limiter -- Instead, buffs such as Combat Stances, Forms, and Pet Stances can now be toggled at will, and toggled back and forth much more easily.

Concentration still has a role, but when it comes to these particular kinds of buffs, we're going for what we hope is a more intuitive method of communicating this exclusivity.

"We started by setting Mage Shielding at 3 concentration... then removed the concentration... We really don't have a clue about what we want..."

Character Choices

When we first set out to add Training abilities every ten levels, the idea was to give people a choice that would let them make their character more distinctive from others of the same class.

More often than not, what happened in practice was that there was only one long-term option that was far and above superior for each profession – Priests required their cures, Pet casters required their Pets, and anyone who chose anything but "the good one" was left out in the cold. That's not much of a choice. A character who chose the less than optimal one would only be able to get so far into the high end of the game and had their effectiveness severely penalized on their way up.

As a part of this revamp, we've removed the old Training abilities and expanded the definitions of each profession to include the parts of their Training tree that the game depended on, and others gain abilities they didn't have before.  Priests and their cures, Bards and their run speed, and so on.  In essence, the critical parts now become a part of the class, and there's still plenty of room for differentiation.

Instead of one or two training choises that you MIGHT have a use for in higher levels, you now get to choose a Master II of one of your exsisting spells (4 choises). So now the "differentitation" is that people choose one of four spells, and use them for about 8 to 10 levels at most. Nice differentation.. (*shakes head* - yeah ok.. its nice to have a Master II.. that you can use for a few levels.)

New Ways to Affect Your Character

The Training abilities themselves take on a slightly different form, in that every ten levels you're now able to choose one spell to upgrade to a new rank -- Master II.  These abilities are very powerful and useful, and there's a significant differentiating choice to be made.

In addition to the new Training abilities, the choices you make for your character will have more impact.  Resistances and stats both play a larger role in your character's existing capacity.

Indeed... Since all resistances have been heavily reduced, you WILL need them now.

As one example, where Intelligence currently increases a Mage's power pool, it will soon also increase the damage they're able to do with their spells.  Raise your Wisdom to increase your ability to avoid spells outright.   Raise your Strength to increase your melee damage.

While this is true, concider this... +100 intelligence gives you roughly 10% more damage... you are really going to notice this at the low to mid levels, right?.. Right??

Beyond that, items and spells now exist that will grant skill raises for skills that could not be raised before.  Raise your Focus skill to be less likely to be interrupted.  Raise your attack skills to gain greater effectiveness with your abilities.

Grouping, Death, and Community

In looking at a few of these gameplay mechanics and the long-term effect they had on the way friendships were made and the way groups formed (or broke up), we decided that it would make a better gameplay experience for everyone if we made a few changes to the system. 

As a part of the next update, single-group encounters will no longer "hard lock," and in a way that doesn't open up the system to free-for-all kill stealing or infinite powerleveling. 

We are approaching this change with caution to ensure the game does not turn into something that's far too easy. This would be the case, for example, if encounters were to let dozens of people attack raid targets, which is why we're keeping the encounter locks as-is for raid targets. 

However, for single group encounters the loss of positive social opportunities far outweighs the protection that hard encounter locks were providing.

Also in the update, group experience debt has been removed.  If you die, you take the death penalty, exactly as if you were solo.  The system that we have in place currently is absolutely the most fair - Of that, there's no argument.  However, it has ended up having the practical effect of causing more groups to break up faster, which has to be our overriding concern.

If the priest fails to keep the tank alive, the tank will get all the xp debt... Does the priest care? Will the tank leave pretty quickly now, due to the healers failure?

"The system that we have in place currently is absolutely the most fair - Of that, there's no argument." Then why change it?

To sum up these changes:  In any MMO, people come for the game, and they stay for their friends and the long-term challenges and rewards present in the world.  We're not just in the business of providing an interesting, fun, and challenging world to adventure in.  We're equally responsible to ensure that we provide a setting in which our game draws people together as best as it can.

If you'd like to read an even more in-depth discussion regarding these changes, you can find one on our boards right here:  http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=2945

Other Changes

Before I go, I'll mention a few other changes of note. 

  • Since we've made so many changes to spells, you'll notice that the Knowledge book will have a new Sort button to let you sort your abilities a number of different ways.
  • The area in which rear attacks such as Backstabs can take place will be widened.
  • Power costs will no longer increase as you gain version upgrades (Apprentice through Master) of the same spell or combat art.
  • Casting times will be significantly reduced on many combat arts.
  • Race specific vision effects will no longer consume power when they're used.
  • New tooltips have been added for all spells and combat arts, containing details of what the effects do.  These tooltips can be completely customized under the Options menu, letting you include as much or as little information as you like.

The possitive things..

WOW that many (/sarcasm off)

In Closing

We understand that changes of this magnitude, even when many of them are positive, can be disconcerting.

If you'd like to take an early look at the changes, you're welcome to check out the Test Server, where anyone can come take a look at what the future has in store.

We will also be creating new pages on the EQII web site that delve into our changes in greater detail.

As always, if you want to keep up with all of the things going on in EverQuest II from week to week, we urge you to keep an eye out for our posts on the forums, where we keep people up to date as frequently as we can.

Good hunting,

- Scott

As a last comment. I have cancelled my pre-order of Desert of Flames as well as my account.

If SOE EVER get it just half way right I may concider re-subscribing, but with SOE's track record I highly doubth it.

To every one else that do not like the changes comming I suggest that you also cancel... You will still be able to play until your subscribtion runs out, but by cancelling maybe, just maybe SOE will FINALLY get a clue. (Yeah... right)



Look at this guy! He saw the future.

I totaly agree with him in the present!

Five star to him.

 

Phoenix

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Old 09-19-2005, 07:18 PM   #207
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lol
 
just tried SOLO-arena in splitpaw (me = 31 guard in proper armor and stuff, fully buffed ... ya know the procedure)
 
rat = no prob
spider = no prob tho it took a few moments
gnoll = no prob tho it took some time
spider 2 = no prob
gnoll 2 = no prob with gnollslayer
groupgnolls = no prob with still running gnollslayer
group of 3 (2 casters/priests and a dwarf-whatever) = lol no chance
 
i ran up, tried to knock down the ****** healer. no way .. it seemed that all 3 chars healed themselves constantly and across lol. so i ran outta mana and got beaten to death. i tried again with trying to kill the melee-dwarf first. he went down pretty fast, but no chance to kill the 2 casters. they power-heal themselves at a rate each single healer-class would be jealous of -.- at almost no mana-cost (their mana lines were LEAST 3/4 full ... over the whole battle). i tried it with offensive and defensive stances and different weapons and tactics .. i was unable to bring them down.
 
(reminder: this group consists of 3x same-level vv mobs)
 
take this as a side-note
harclave is ok, as long as there are no adds and you got some totems, hexdolls and healing-potions with you ..... the healing-rate from harclave-buff is close to 0 (64 every 5-8 seconds lol ...) so that you leave a fight gainst 4 29ish v grpmobs with 50% health SMILEY 8[
 
@Phoenix
i was a bit sceptic about what Cyrano wrote and feared, but it seems he was right ... unfortunately :/
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:46 PM   #208
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Hey folks. Some of you may know me, most probably do not. I am a heavy reader of the forums, but I rarely post. After the past week, and mostly weekend, I have been compelled too post some on this board. Let me say first, I am old skool MMO. I played in the beta of Merdian 59. That's right!! If you know what M59 is, then you know that I have been around the block. For those of you who don't, it was one of the very first MMORPG's. One of the first major ones anyway, I know there were text based MMO's but you get my point. I have played many others since then. (Sorry just feel the need too validate what I say thru experience, working on that with a shrink, just kidding)
 
Anyway, I have a 50 guard and 4 other characters above 20. I don't mind the ability, stat, or whatever you call them changes. In fact, if you really step back and look at it, I feel they cleaned up alot of the useless abilities we had cluttering our books. Heck, I don't even mind an increase in mob difficulty. (M59 was 10 times harder than even EQ1 so I really don't mind.)
 
I do mind however, a misleading and very confusing con system and zones that were 10 levels below me, and are now con and stomping [Removed for Content]. Ok, before you blow up and go nuts on me, please listen.
 
I'll use my level 29 Guardian for this. I first noticed something was wrong as I was running to the oracle tower. A heroic group of gnolls attacked me close to the tower. They were level 17 or so and where green to me?????? Well they handed my rear too me. This was early on and I did not have a grasp on the combat system yet. Either way, that seemed strange. As the week progressed, I grasped the changes, figured out my defensive stance, offensive stance, the buff system, the extremely smaller power pool, etc.
 
I then decided to head off too CoB to do some writs. Enough screwing around, the changes were made, let's roll with it. Wow. I was in for a surprise. The restless corpses who had been gray from about level 26 on, were now green again, and heroic. Some 3 arrows up, most 2 arrows up, and I stood no chance. Ok, well let's try something different. I was told by fellow guildies, (who had only been tradeskilling.....) to change my play style. So I head off to RoV in a full group. Level 27-30. Wow, blue heroics were destroying us. We wiped at least 10-11 times in the front section. Finally, I put together a group to CoB, I was going too do those writs no matter what. We struggles with greens. Even the single arrow up. And God forbid you get any adds. Wow. 3 folks in my group logged out and said they were quitting the game. One is a guildie and he did quit the game completely.
 
I guess the point I'm making here, aside from the rambling is, when you work 50-60 hours a week, you don't have time too just log in, get in a group, and roll for 5 or 6 hours. BUT!! When you do get in that group, whats the point when even a solid group can wipe fighting greens and picking up a small group of green adds? My style has always been, solo as much as you can, get heris caught up as far as you can, do what writs you can solo, then get the guildies together for a group to finish the hard stuff. All I'm asking, green means you should be able too take it down at LEAST with a group of 3 right?? Just make the con system matter. I'm tired of level 21 green heroics destroying my level 28+ groups.
 
I know there will be folks on both side of the fence respond too this. I'm ready for whatever you got. Just my two cents. I play the game because it was sold as the game for the casual gamer, the folks who want a challenge, but don't want the grind of EQ1. They even sold it too the big reviewers that way. Read the PC Gamer Scoop from about a year ago. Just fix the con system and all will be ok, that's all. If not, LOTR Online will be out in January and DDO will be out mid-spring.
 
 
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:49 PM   #209
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Anyway, this game is EVERQUEST 2.
 
Did anyone finish white solo quest after update? Because my opinion is, this game is not anymore "EVER"quest to solo.
Of course some player can solo, if only want to kill some knowless mob. But some quest need traveling too. :smileysurprised:
 
I'm lvl 49 wizard ATM. And i can't solo anymore.
- Invis is useless
- My +40% horse speed buff is ignoring in invis
- I can't kill 6 or more lvl lower heroic mob anymore alone (before i had chance white ^^)
- And many mob don't lose encounter if i try flee
 
This mean i can't reach my aim in deeper in some zone without grp anymore. No more questing alone.
I totaly agree with those people, who told, solo impossible now.
I have begin 9 month ago, and now i feel no hope.
 
****
And what is it with Customer Service?
After Update SOE still in silence. In this topic too.
 
This Update remove my many good spells, and training.
Now everyone is an Class CLONE. No different, no identity. Just some spell stronger than someone else has.
 
My Mail of Frost [Master 1] spell has bean removed, what i bought for expensive money. I wrote petition, but customer service can't interest my spent money. (I had 3 invis adept 3 spell too...)
 
I spent many money to build my character's Spell system. Now it is rearanged. Some is app1, some is useless, because same stack, or reduced.
 
I wrote in some topic about combat change is not fun. No SOE response.
 
I tried send petition, bug report, feedback about ignoring horse speed buff in invis, because this change is not noted in Updates notes, but i received only an automatic answer.
 
I just tried new combat changes in Down bellow. Lvl 8 mob can hit an lvl 48 wizard with full (no grey) legendary gear. ROFL
 
What is going on? Why SOE don't answer to his Customer. WE PAY.
 
 
 
Sorry for my bad English, it is not my native.
 
Phoenix
 

Message Edited by Phoenix force on 09-19-2005 05:50 PM

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Old 09-19-2005, 08:02 PM   #210
Phoenix force

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Hey Nosewarts!

I just curious, what class/lvl do you play? Are you playing alone, or in grp? What class/lvl is in your grp, if you in grp.

What zone do you questing? What quest? Anyway, do you do quests?

Please, teach me, how can i play as like you! I want to be happy as like you! I want to tell to SOE: "Yees, myy Maasteer..." as like you!

 

Br

Sorry for bad language

Phoenix

Message Edited by Phoenix force on 09-19-2005 06:03 PM

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