Inquisitors

Nindakin · 10-31-2016, 04:04 AM

To preface this, I want to offer my thanks for the changes that have been made to inquisitors thus far. For a class that hasn't received any changes since siren's grotto, any attention we receive is better than nothing. That being said, many of these changes are missing the mark, so I'd like to offer more focused feedback in the vain hope of future changes directly targeting the problems that have been plaguing this class for years.

Healing

Inquisitors have the fewest reliable damage prevention abilities of any priest, which is extremely problematic in a game where outgoing damage routinely exceeds player hp. While actual healing ability has never been the strength of the class, at least some improvements need to be made in this area without stepping on the toes of more defensively oriented healers.

Suggestions:

1. Remove the 50% health restriction on prepared defenses
2. Add a damage reduction component to non-fighters when battle dressing procs
3. While not related to damage prevention, review the list of abilities reset by ethereal divinity. I would like to see chilling invigoration, radiance, and evidence of faith added to this list.

Offensive Utility

Inquisitor's offensive buffing capabilities were at one point one of the major hallmarks of the class, but, much like most other utility in this game, hasn't scaled well over the years and has been rendered essentially useless due to stat inflation and mechanics changes. The recent change to divine recovery is definitely a step in the right direction, but this change is insufficient and is a shared ability with templars. Inquisitors need something very powerful and distinct in this category if anyone is ever going to want one in their group.

Suggestions:

In an effort to adhere to the class's traditional role of primarily buffing melee damage, add a 4% chance to instantly recast combat arts per rank to enhance: fanaticism.

Personal Damage

In the past, inquisitors enjoyed very respectable personal damage output primarily due to autoattack focused buffs and AAs. Beyond that, however, the base damage of inquisitor combat arts is very low, so having the strongest autoattack among priests is basically the only thing the class has ever had going for it in terms of damage. Terrors of thalumbra brought an end to any attempts of dealing significant damage via autoattack due to the hardcapping of weapon damage bonus and crit bonus accompanied by an overall change in itemization direction in favor of massive amounts of potency. While these changes were implemented to curb the amount of passive damage being dealt by scouts, inquisitors were unfortunately caught in the crossfire and left with no means of dealing appreciable damage.

Suggestions:

While improving the base damage of combat arts would be one method to rectify this problem, rather than going through and adjusting multiple abilities, I personally would rather the class stick to its original design of having high autoattack damage. High passive damage on a priest is a very different case than high passive damage on a dps class, serving a complimentary role to their active role of healing. Moreover, maximizing autoattack damage in the past required making interesting itemization decisions. For example, weapon damage bonus in ToV and AoM typically came at the expense of potency, creating a balancing act when trying to gear for damage that simply doesn't exist with today's itemization. About the only way I can realistically see achieving high autoattack damage within the boundaries of current itemization and mechanics would be to massively increase the base autoattack multiplier of inquisitors. Such an increase could be tied to the divine retribution endline prestige ability.

Overall, inquisitors in their current state bring nothing noteworthy to the table and are likely the worst class in the game. With the current direction healing mechanics are going, it seems highly likely that they're going to continue being second rate at best in terms of healing efficacy, in which case they really need to compensate for that deficiency through utility and dps. Even if the end result is a class that only has a role in heroic and lower tier raid content, at least they'd be good at something.

10-31-2016, 05:34 PM

You beat me to making an inquisitor post. I was going to wait until they actually had some class balance updates going, instead of general mechanics changes. But I'll comment on what you said (pls enjoy my wall of text!).

I agree with partd of this.

1). The health threshold restriction to our ONLY ward is beyond frustrating to me. Please remove this requirement, and maybe change the Prepared Defenses prestige to increase the ward as the mob gets lower in HP (similar to how Forced Confessions adds additional hits to the ability as the mob gets lower in health).

2). Please, please, PLEASE do not make it so the only way we provide damage reduction is attached to another proc. Instead, I'd rather see it added to places like the third point of Hastened Interrogation prestige (for 10% to the group) and just completely change Fanatical Grace prestige to be 5/10/15% damage reduction to whoever you cast it on. IMO having left side be able to provide more damage reduction than right side would be fine, as left side is (in my mind) the more defensive of the two.

3). Lastly, please add more abilities to what can reset. As an inquisitor, you have 7 (8, maybe 9 if you spec left side prestige) abilities that reset with the reset rune. 5 of which (to me) are pointless to reset because all the triggers are not used up in their duration most of the time. I agree with making Chilling Invigoration, Radiance, and Evidence of Faith resettable. It is only fair that Radiance and Evidence of Faith reset because the equivalents on both Shaman (the single target/group ward with long recasts) both reset, so these abilities should also reset for clerics.

I'll agree with this, to an extent. I don't think adding 4% Combat Art doublecast will make us more viable, and I'd rather have a way to appeal to scout and mage dps, but I do understand the desire to cater to only melee dps as we used to do that very well.

To touch on the Divine Recovery change, I think the conversion should be closer to 35 points = 1 potency, as 42:1 isn't stellar, and at the rate this game is going, the amount of potency it gives will probably end up being less than one items worth of potency (eventually.). I don't mind sharing it with Templars, cuz honestly it's not amazing in its current form.

Nindakin said: ↑

“Personal Damage

In the past, inquisitors enjoyed very respectable personal damage output primarily due to autoattack focused buffs and AAs. Beyond that, however, the base damage of inquisitor combat arts is very low, so having the strongest autoattack among priests is basically the only thing the class has ever had going for it in terms of damage. Terrors of thalumbra brought an end to any attempts of dealing significant damage via autoattack due to the hardcapping of weapon damage bonus and crit bonus accompanied by an overall change in itemization direction in favor of massive amounts of potency. While these changes were implemented to curb the amount of passive damage being dealt by scouts, inquisitors were unfortunately caught in the crossfire and left with no means of dealing appreciable damage.

Suggestions:
While improving the base damage of combat arts would be one method to rectify this problem, rather than going through and adjusting multiple abilities, I personally would rather the class stick to its original design of having high autoattack damage. High passive damage on a priest is a very different case than high passive damage on a dps class, serving a complimentary role to their active role of healing. Moreover, maximizing autoattack damage in the past required making interesting itemization decisions. For example, weapon damage bonus in ToV and AoM typically came at the expense of potency, creating a balancing act when trying to gear for damage that simply doesn't exist with today's itemization. About the only way I can realistically see achieving high autoattack damage within the boundaries of current itemization and mechanics would be to massively increase the base autoattack multiplier of inquisitors. Such an increase could be tied to the divine retribution endline prestige ability.”

I disagree with making inquisitor dps passive. I would rather be engaged, so I'd rather see them increase the damage of our combat arts/spells and increase the damage of Repentance, Heresy, Vengeance, and Smite Heretic, as all four of these abilities do not do well on parse, even if you keep the triggers on cool down (not the reuse of the spell itself, but the actual trigger count).

And lastly, this whole thing made me angry. I realize I have said inquisitors are the worst healers you can invite to the raid or a group on these forums (go ahead and quote me on that) but I want to clarify what I mean by worst. Worst to me is we bring the worst utility out of all the healers. Why invite an inquisitor when EVERY OTHER HEALER gives better utility to a group? My inquisitor can heal amazingly, if there are no hits larger than health pool happening. But utility? Come on. It's horrible.

And never, ever say you are ok with being "good enough for heroic/lower end raid content, but not much else!" Try to offer ways to make your class useful in ALL content, not just some. This class should NOT be pigeon-holed into only doing some of the content, when all of the other healers are able to do all of the things because they have the tools available to them.

I am (im)patiently waiting for the actual class balance posts, so I can offer feedback on them. Until then, the only changes (as of the time of this post) were prestige conversion changes and the addition of combat mitigation debuffs to certain classes. These are not class balance changes, they are just changes that are needed for the expac because of stats they are adding.

Malleria · 10-31-2016, 09:57 PM

I think it'd be interesting if they added some DR to Inquisition. They can follow the same track and give a varying amount based on how far away you are from the Inquisitor. I'd want it to be something significant, like at least 35% DR at close range, and maybe 20 or 15 at the longer range.

And definitely remove the 50% health threshold for prepared defences.

Diveris · 11-01-2016, 05:33 AM

I think returning to auto attack damage for a melee priest would be nice. Not delaying autos takes more skill Imo than button mashing.

I also think something more useful should come out of battle dressing. And punishment AA should be looked at to help address some of the healing/ damage reduction issues. Maybe any time a punishment spell triggers it should provide a stoneskin or dr.

Inquis should be healing using reactives and procing heals from melee, like it use to. The class was way more fun then.

Come to think of it maybe battle dressing should proc a ward rather than a heal nothing op, but a buffer to prevent one shots.

As far as utility goes, I suggest revamping divine recovery/vile recovery. Maybe make vile recovery add 25% combat art DA. Also increase the damage of fanatical devotions proc.

As an inquis I want to be able to heal heroics well, as any healer should. In raids I'm not looking to be in Mt group. I want to be with scouts keeping them alive; while enhancing their dps, and smacking mobs with my BFH.

11-01-2016, 05:52 AM

Absolutely agreed with most things stated here. % Threshold needs to be removed on Interrogation. CA's need a huge boost and some sort of DR is needed on Inquisition or on primary group reactive.

11-01-2016, 06:08 AM

I absolutely agree with these suggestions. It's almost become depressing playing an Inq these days, DR added to Inquisition is a brilliant idea and the health threshold of Interrogation needed removed long ago. These changes would make the Inq a viable healer again!

11-01-2016, 06:17 AM

Here's a thought; replace that left side ability that increases healing by 10% (5 increments) with a stoneskin that only soaks up hits greater then 50% of the tanks max hp, much like the SK's Hateful Respite ability.

11-06-2016, 01:13 AM

Having played both Mystic and Inquisitor in the ToT heroic and raid content, I was always amazed at how much easier it was to play the Mystic, though both were equivalently geared @roughly 10k pot solo, other stats comparable. What really enhanced the Mystic was the huge bump to wards as a result of potency, and in general the greater effectiveness of ethereal purples, principally Ethereal Divinity.

It is my opinion that the Inquisitor, this xpac, is probably the most stressed class in the game in terms of both healing power and utility. I won't be playing either healer as a main, so it is not out of class bias that I strongly concur with the suggestions of Nindakin, Erevis, and fellow posters.

Perhaps not everything on the list is simultaneously doable, but the Prepared Defenses upgrade would be a great place to start.

11-06-2016, 02:13 AM

So, since the forums are apparently working now… I can post my ramblings on inquisitors. Yay.

Been thinking about this all week. At this point, I honestly don’t think there are going to be further patch notes. Sure, there’s still about a week and a half until the expac goes live, but there are other things that’ll be done in that time, and I don’t think class balance is going to matter to anyone, especially class balance for inquisitors.

That being said, these are the changes I think would help the class the most. I’m including the ones previous posters have mentioned, but I am tweaking them slightly (because reasons).

Remove the health threshold component for Prepared Defenses
This has bothered me since the day inquisitors actually got a ward. Please remove the requirement for the mob to already be half dead in order for us to ward. Yes, I know some fights have adds (especially raid mobs) so in theory, we could use it more often. But it doesn’t change the fact we are the only healer that has this requirement for our wards.

If I want to push this change to be even more awesome… Rework Prepared Defenses (the prestige point) to make it so the ward gets larger as the mob reaches certain hp thresholds. This would work similar to how Forced Confessions currently works (adds additional hits to the ability as the mob decreases in health). What I think would be cool is if from 100% to 76% mob health, the ward would be the base value it is on live (lets call this 100%). From 75% to 51% mob health, the ward would increase to 125%. From 50% to 26% mob health, the ward would increase to 150%. Then from 25% to dead, the ward would be at 175%.

So with numbers (to explain that better cuz I can be pretty terrible with words… and not ACTUAL numbers, just example numbers!!)
From 100% to 76% ward would be 1,000
From 75% to 51% ward would be 1,250
From 50% to 26% ward would be 1,500
From 25% to dead ward would be 1,750

If someone who is better at numbers than me could say if this is a horrible idea or not, please do. But explain why if you do.

Make Ethereal Divinity reset more abilities

Currently, this rune only resets 7 (8 if you spec left side) abilities on inquisitors. I think that Chilling Invigoration, Radiance, and Evidence of Faith should be added to the list of abilities this rune will reset. This honestly does not seem crazy to me because it would bump us up to 10 or 11 abilities that can reset (compared to I think 12 or 13 on a defiler last time I checked). It would also put us more in line with what can reset when compared to a shaman, because both shamans have their long recast wards reset.

Add damage reduction to three of our abilities
Adding damage reduction would be awesome. This would (in my mind) allow us to better solo heal groups, and also give us something unique amongst the healers. Sure, other healers have the ability to give damage reductions to tanks (and much smaller amounts to the group), but this would be different(!!).

I think both Inquisition and Hastened Interrogation should give 10% damage reduction to the group, with the exception “if not fighter.” Now, I realize that may put people up in arms (ERMAGERD WHY NO DMG REDUCTION TO TANK?!?!?!). And it’s quite simple really. Most/all the tanks have the ability to keep themselves alive be it dodges from brawlers or stoneskins/damage reduction from the other classes. Allowing us to give damage reduction to everyone else in the group would allow us to keep the people who are actually squishy alive.

The third ability I think should have damage reduction on it is Fanatical Grace. This is leftside spec, which as I said in my last post appears to be the more defensive side. I think the ability should just be completely reworked to give 5%, 10%, and 15% damage reduction to the target (1, 2, and 3 points, respectively). You could also allow this one to benefit your tank, so there would actually be a benefit to dropping the awesome that is right side if you found yourself stuck in a tank group in raids (or had a tank who wasn’t able to stay alive as well as they should).

Increase the base damage of our combat arts and damage reactives
I’m not asking for these to be increased dramatically, nothing to make them crazy OP. Just so we do more. Sure, we’re a healer, we should be focused on healing. But we are also one of the 3-ish offensive healers, so we should be able to do more at the expense of all the other defensive abilities other healers get. Even with 10k potency and over 200k abil mod my combat arts really don’t hit as hard as I would like them to.

Perfected Inquest
This ability just needs to be completely reworked or something. If you put all 3 points into it, you get 97 power to your group. Considering even inquest doesn’t seem to be great at this point, 97 just makes me sad. Ideally, this ability would be changed into a temp ability similar to Fae Fires or Stampede. Give it a 20 or so second duration, with a 3 minute base recast (so if you have 100% reuse it’d be 1 min 30 seconds) and put the damage somewhere in-between stampede and fae fires (boosted by fury cloak). I know, inquisitors have Act of War and Fanatical Devotion to give damage procs, but they really do not do much damage anymore.

If you are unwilling to consider completely changing that ability into a temp damage spell, please consider upping the trigger chance and damage of Act of War. Act of War (with the focus increasing its trigger chance) only triggers 1.6 times per minute. Please increase the trigger chance to something more reasonable if completely changing Perfected Inquest is unreasonable.

I could post more, cuz I think about this too much. But I think these changes would help the class the most. Or I can just delude myself into thinking they’d help the class be more appealing.

Please? <3?

Malleria · 11-06-2016, 04:01 AM

I think 10% DR is low balling and won't make much difference, especially given the duration of hastened interrogation. No point making token changes that won't really help, because it reduces the chance of getting a real fix down the road. Besides that, agree Smile

11-06-2016, 09:42 AM

Hastened Interrogation lasts 10 seconds, so I don't think it's too bad. Plus if you combine it with inquisition it'd be 20% damage reduction, which is about what the sorcs give with one of their abilities. I can see why it seems like lowballing but for most people it's 20% more than they already have.

And my zerker has 5% on chaos (one of his groupwide buffs) and while it doesn't sound like a lot, it does help the rest of his group if I have it running. If we go much higher, inqs would probably become op, and that is not my goal.

Edit: asking questions you've already answered before ftw. Oops.

11-10-2016, 12:52 AM

Erevis:

'Remove the health threshold component for Prepared Defenses
This has bothered me since the day inquisitors actually got a ward. Please remove the requirement for the mob to already be half dead in order for us to ward. Yes, I know some fights have adds (especially raid mobs) so in theory, we could use it more often. But it doesn’t change the fact we are the only healer that has this requirement for our wards.

If I want to push this change to be even more awesome… Rework Prepared Defenses (the prestige point) to make it so the ward gets larger as the mob reaches certain hp thresholds. This would work similar to how Forced Confessions currently works (adds additional hits to the ability as the mob decreases in health). What I think would be cool is if from 100% to 76% mob health, the ward would be the base value it is on live (lets call this 100%). From 75% to 51% mob health, the ward would increase to 125%. From 50% to 26% mob health, the ward would increase to 150%. Then from 25% to dead, the ward would be at 175%.'

The proposed variable ward is fine; and it mirrors the damage portion as well.

However, I think the most important point would be to remove the health threshold, and then reduce the recast time (currently 22.5 sec @ 100% reuse) to about 15-17 sec range. That would increase the dps and hps of interrogation by approx 30-50%.

Those changes would help the Inquisitor class considerably.

Daalilama · 11-10-2016, 01:07 AM

Just about everyone I know who play heals have been trying forever to get that threshold removed....no reason for it at this stage of the game.

11-12-2016, 12:48 AM

The reason would be to insure the viability of the Inquisitor as a healing class in the face of wards that are going to continue to grow with potency. It is true that 'bleed through' has been introduced to try to address the issue. But the primacy of wards is increasing and Inquisitors deserve to have recourse to protect against one-shot dynamics as well (reactive and direct heals being ineffective in that situation).

Daalilama · 11-12-2016, 01:37 AM

When I said no reason I was talking about the threshold not the ward....tbh doesnt make any sense for the threshold to exist anymore with current mechanics.

11-12-2016, 02:43 PM

Every comment I've read has been about modifying the inquisitor's offense tree, wouldn't it make more sense to fix the heal side tree so it is actually worth taking?

Diveris · 11-12-2016, 05:16 PM

Inquis is an offensive healer. Making them rely on a healer tree even if it were buffed would still leave them behind a Templar. I think people are asking for the inquis to be played how it was intended.

But it looks like we are getting nothing.

11-13-2016, 07:57 AM

There is absolutely no reason why the Interrogation change should not go in before this xpac. I understand the reasoning behind not doing this a couple of expacs ago but with today's stats, this ward on its cool down is not really that big of a deal.

Even with the change you won't be begging for an Inquis over any of the shamans

Also, Punishments needs fixed.

Malleria · 11-13-2016, 08:05 AM

Because the easiest and best fix at the moment is to give Inqs access to a reliable ward. Why completely revamp the entire left side to give us that when one already exists on the right with a minor tweak?

10-31-2016, 05:34 PM	#2
Erevis Cale Member Posts: n/a	You beat me to making an inquisitor post. I was going to wait until they actually had some class balance updates going, instead of general mechanics changes. But I'll comment on what you said (pls enjoy my wall of text!). Nindakin said: ↑ “Healing Inquisitors have the fewest reliable damage prevention abilities of any priest, which is extremely problematic in a game where outgoing damage routinely exceeds player hp. While actual healing ability has never been the strength of the class, at least some improvements need to be made in this area without stepping on the toes of more defensively oriented healers. Suggestions: 1. Remove the 50% health restriction on prepared defenses 2. Add a damage reduction component to non-fighters when battle dressing procs 3. While not related to damage prevention, review the list of abilities reset by ethereal divinity. I would like to see chilling invigoration, radiance, and evidence of faith added to this list.” I agree with partd of this. 1). The health threshold restriction to our ONLY ward is beyond frustrating to me. Please remove this requirement, and maybe change the Prepared Defenses prestige to increase the ward as the mob gets lower in HP (similar to how Forced Confessions adds additional hits to the ability as the mob gets lower in health). 2). Please, please, PLEASE do not make it so the only way we provide damage reduction is attached to another proc. Instead, I'd rather see it added to places like the third point of Hastened Interrogation prestige (for 10% to the group) and just completely change Fanatical Grace prestige to be 5/10/15% damage reduction to whoever you cast it on. IMO having left side be able to provide more damage reduction than right side would be fine, as left side is (in my mind) the more defensive of the two. 3). Lastly, please add more abilities to what can reset. As an inquisitor, you have 7 (8, maybe 9 if you spec left side prestige) abilities that reset with the reset rune. 5 of which (to me) are pointless to reset because all the triggers are not used up in their duration most of the time. I agree with making Chilling Invigoration, Radiance, and Evidence of Faith resettable. It is only fair that Radiance and Evidence of Faith reset because the equivalents on both Shaman (the single target/group ward with long recasts) both reset, so these abilities should also reset for clerics. Nindakin said: ↑ “Offensive Utility Inquisitor's offensive buffing capabilities were at one point one of the major hallmarks of the class, but, much like most other utility in this game, hasn't scaled well over the years and has been rendered essentially useless due to stat inflation and mechanics changes. The recent change to divine recovery is definitely a step in the right direction, but this change is insufficient and is a shared ability with templars. Inquisitors need something very powerful and distinct in this category if anyone is ever going to want one in their group. Suggestions: In an effort to adhere to the class's traditional role of primarily buffing melee damage, add a 4% chance to instantly recast combat arts per rank to enhance: fanaticism.” I'll agree with this, to an extent. I don't think adding 4% Combat Art doublecast will make us more viable, and I'd rather have a way to appeal to scout and mage dps, but I do understand the desire to cater to only melee dps as we used to do that very well. To touch on the Divine Recovery change, I think the conversion should be closer to 35 points = 1 potency, as 42:1 isn't stellar, and at the rate this game is going, the amount of potency it gives will probably end up being less than one items worth of potency (eventually.). I don't mind sharing it with Templars, cuz honestly it's not amazing in its current form. Nindakin said: ↑ “Personal Damage In the past, inquisitors enjoyed very respectable personal damage output primarily due to autoattack focused buffs and AAs. Beyond that, however, the base damage of inquisitor combat arts is very low, so having the strongest autoattack among priests is basically the only thing the class has ever had going for it in terms of damage. Terrors of thalumbra brought an end to any attempts of dealing significant damage via autoattack due to the hardcapping of weapon damage bonus and crit bonus accompanied by an overall change in itemization direction in favor of massive amounts of potency. While these changes were implemented to curb the amount of passive damage being dealt by scouts, inquisitors were unfortunately caught in the crossfire and left with no means of dealing appreciable damage. Suggestions: While improving the base damage of combat arts would be one method to rectify this problem, rather than going through and adjusting multiple abilities, I personally would rather the class stick to its original design of having high autoattack damage. High passive damage on a priest is a very different case than high passive damage on a dps class, serving a complimentary role to their active role of healing. Moreover, maximizing autoattack damage in the past required making interesting itemization decisions. For example, weapon damage bonus in ToV and AoM typically came at the expense of potency, creating a balancing act when trying to gear for damage that simply doesn't exist with today's itemization. About the only way I can realistically see achieving high autoattack damage within the boundaries of current itemization and mechanics would be to massively increase the base autoattack multiplier of inquisitors. Such an increase could be tied to the divine retribution endline prestige ability.” I disagree with making inquisitor dps passive. I would rather be engaged, so I'd rather see them increase the damage of our combat arts/spells and increase the damage of Repentance, Heresy, Vengeance, and Smite Heretic, as all four of these abilities do not do well on parse, even if you keep the triggers on cool down (not the reuse of the spell itself, but the actual trigger count). Nindakin said: ↑ “Overall, inquisitors in their current state bring nothing noteworthy to the table and are likely the worst class in the game. With the current direction healing mechanics are going, it seems highly likely that they're going to continue being second rate at best in terms of healing efficacy, in which case they really need to compensate for that deficiency through utility and dps. Even if the end result is a class that only has a role in heroic and lower tier raid content, at least they'd be good at something.” And lastly, this whole thing made me angry. I realize I have said inquisitors are the worst healers you can invite to the raid or a group on these forums (go ahead and quote me on that) but I want to clarify what I mean by worst. Worst to me is we bring the worst utility out of all the healers. Why invite an inquisitor when EVERY OTHER HEALER gives better utility to a group? My inquisitor can heal amazingly, if there are no hits larger than health pool happening. But utility? Come on. It's horrible. And never, ever say you are ok with being "good enough for heroic/lower end raid content, but not much else!" Try to offer ways to make your class useful in ALL content, not just some. This class should NOT be pigeon-holed into only doing some of the content, when all of the other healers are able to do all of the things because they have the tools available to them. I am (im)patiently waiting for the actual class balance posts, so I can offer feedback on them. Until then, the only changes (as of the time of this post) were prestige conversion changes and the addition of combat mitigation debuffs to certain classes. These are not class balance changes, they are just changes that are needed for the expac because of stats they are adding.

11-06-2016, 09:42 AM	#11
Erevis Cale Member Posts: n/a	Malleria said: ↑ “I think 10% DR is low balling and won't make much difference, especially given the duration of hastened interrogation. No point making token changes that won't really help, because it reduces the chance of getting a real fix down the road. Besides that, agree ” Hastened Interrogation lasts 10 seconds, so I don't think it's too bad. Plus if you combine it with inquisition it'd be 20% damage reduction, which is about what the sorcs give with one of their abilities. I can see why it seems like lowballing but for most people it's 20% more than they already have. And my zerker has 5% on chaos (one of his groupwide buffs) and while it doesn't sound like a lot, it does help the rest of his group if I have it running. If we go much higher, inqs would probably become op, and that is not my goal. Edit: asking questions you've already answered before ftw. Oops.

11-12-2016, 12:48 AM	#14
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	Daalilama said: ↑ “Just about everyone I know who play heals have been trying forever to get that threshold removed....no reason for it at this stage of the game.” The reason would be to insure the viability of the Inquisitor as a healing class in the face of wards that are going to continue to grow with potency. It is true that 'bleed through' has been introduced to try to address the issue. But the primacy of wards is increasing and Inquisitors deserve to have recourse to protect against one-shot dynamics as well (reactive and direct heals being ineffective in that situation).

11-12-2016, 05:16 PM	#17
Diveris Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Curmudgeon said: ↑ “Every comment I've read has been about modifying the inquisitor's offense tree, wouldn't it make more sense to fix the heal side tree so it is actually worth taking?” Inquis is an offensive healer. Making them rely on a healer tree even if it were buffed would still leave them behind a Templar. I think people are asking for the inquis to be played how it was intended. But it looks like we are getting nothing.

11-13-2016, 08:05 AM	#19
Malleria Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Curmudgeon said: ↑ “Every comment I've read has been about modifying the inquisitor's offense tree, wouldn't it make more sense to fix the heal side tree so it is actually worth taking?” Because the easiest and best fix at the moment is to give Inqs access to a reliable ward. Why completely revamp the entire left side to give us that when one already exists on the right with a minor tweak?

10-31-2016, 04:04 AM	#1
Nindakin New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	To preface this, I want to offer my thanks for the changes that have been made to inquisitors thus far. For a class that hasn't received any changes since siren's grotto, any attention we receive is better than nothing. That being said, many of these changes are missing the mark, so I'd like to offer more focused feedback in the vain hope of future changes directly targeting the problems that have been plaguing this class for years. Healing Inquisitors have the fewest reliable damage prevention abilities of any priest, which is extremely problematic in a game where outgoing damage routinely exceeds player hp. While actual healing ability has never been the strength of the class, at least some improvements need to be made in this area without stepping on the toes of more defensively oriented healers. Suggestions: 1. Remove the 50% health restriction on prepared defenses 2. Add a damage reduction component to non-fighters when battle dressing procs 3. While not related to damage prevention, review the list of abilities reset by ethereal divinity. I would like to see chilling invigoration, radiance, and evidence of faith added to this list. Offensive Utility Inquisitor's offensive buffing capabilities were at one point one of the major hallmarks of the class, but, much like most other utility in this game, hasn't scaled well over the years and has been rendered essentially useless due to stat inflation and mechanics changes. The recent change to divine recovery is definitely a step in the right direction, but this change is insufficient and is a shared ability with templars. Inquisitors need something very powerful and distinct in this category if anyone is ever going to want one in their group. Suggestions: In an effort to adhere to the class's traditional role of primarily buffing melee damage, add a 4% chance to instantly recast combat arts per rank to enhance: fanaticism. Personal Damage In the past, inquisitors enjoyed very respectable personal damage output primarily due to autoattack focused buffs and AAs. Beyond that, however, the base damage of inquisitor combat arts is very low, so having the strongest autoattack among priests is basically the only thing the class has ever had going for it in terms of damage. Terrors of thalumbra brought an end to any attempts of dealing significant damage via autoattack due to the hardcapping of weapon damage bonus and crit bonus accompanied by an overall change in itemization direction in favor of massive amounts of potency. While these changes were implemented to curb the amount of passive damage being dealt by scouts, inquisitors were unfortunately caught in the crossfire and left with no means of dealing appreciable damage. Suggestions: While improving the base damage of combat arts would be one method to rectify this problem, rather than going through and adjusting multiple abilities, I personally would rather the class stick to its original design of having high autoattack damage. High passive damage on a priest is a very different case than high passive damage on a dps class, serving a complimentary role to their active role of healing. Moreover, maximizing autoattack damage in the past required making interesting itemization decisions. For example, weapon damage bonus in ToV and AoM typically came at the expense of potency, creating a balancing act when trying to gear for damage that simply doesn't exist with today's itemization. About the only way I can realistically see achieving high autoattack damage within the boundaries of current itemization and mechanics would be to massively increase the base autoattack multiplier of inquisitors. Such an increase could be tied to the divine retribution endline prestige ability. Overall, inquisitors in their current state bring nothing noteworthy to the table and are likely the worst class in the game. With the current direction healing mechanics are going, it seems highly likely that they're going to continue being second rate at best in terms of healing efficacy, in which case they really need to compensate for that deficiency through utility and dps. Even if the end result is a class that only has a role in heroic and lower tier raid content, at least they'd be good at something.

10-31-2016, 09:57 PM	#3
Malleria Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I think it'd be interesting if they added some DR to Inquisition. They can follow the same track and give a varying amount based on how far away you are from the Inquisitor. I'd want it to be something significant, like at least 35% DR at close range, and maybe 20 or 15 at the longer range. And definitely remove the 50% health threshold for prepared defences.

11-01-2016, 05:33 AM	#4
Diveris Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I think returning to auto attack damage for a melee priest would be nice. Not delaying autos takes more skill Imo than button mashing. I also think something more useful should come out of battle dressing. And punishment AA should be looked at to help address some of the healing/ damage reduction issues. Maybe any time a punishment spell triggers it should provide a stoneskin or dr. Inquis should be healing using reactives and procing heals from melee, like it use to. The class was way more fun then. Come to think of it maybe battle dressing should proc a ward rather than a heal nothing op, but a buffer to prevent one shots. As far as utility goes, I suggest revamping divine recovery/vile recovery. Maybe make vile recovery add 25% combat art DA. Also increase the damage of fanatical devotions proc. As an inquis I want to be able to heal heroics well, as any healer should. In raids I'm not looking to be in Mt group. I want to be with scouts keeping them alive; while enhancing their dps, and smacking mobs with my BFH.

11-01-2016, 05:52 AM	#5
Tigerr Active Member Posts: n/a	Absolutely agreed with most things stated here. % Threshold needs to be removed on Interrogation. CA's need a huge boost and some sort of DR is needed on Inquisition or on primary group reactive.

11-01-2016, 06:08 AM	#6
Imohtepp New Member Posts: n/a	I absolutely agree with these suggestions. It's almost become depressing playing an Inq these days, DR added to Inquisition is a brilliant idea and the health threshold of Interrogation needed removed long ago. These changes would make the Inq a viable healer again!

11-01-2016, 06:17 AM	#7
Curmudgeon Member Posts: n/a	Here's a thought; replace that left side ability that increases healing by 10% (5 increments) with a stoneskin that only soaks up hits greater then 50% of the tanks max hp, much like the SK's Hateful Respite ability.

11-06-2016, 01:13 AM	#8
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	Having played both Mystic and Inquisitor in the ToT heroic and raid content, I was always amazed at how much easier it was to play the Mystic, though both were equivalently geared @roughly 10k pot solo, other stats comparable. What really enhanced the Mystic was the huge bump to wards as a result of potency, and in general the greater effectiveness of ethereal purples, principally Ethereal Divinity. It is my opinion that the Inquisitor, this xpac, is probably the most stressed class in the game in terms of both healing power and utility. I won't be playing either healer as a main, so it is not out of class bias that I strongly concur with the suggestions of Nindakin, Erevis, and fellow posters. Perhaps not everything on the list is simultaneously doable, but the Prepared Defenses upgrade would be a great place to start.

11-06-2016, 02:13 AM	#9
Erevis Cale Member Posts: n/a	So, since the forums are apparently working now… I can post my ramblings on inquisitors. Yay. Been thinking about this all week. At this point, I honestly don’t think there are going to be further patch notes. Sure, there’s still about a week and a half until the expac goes live, but there are other things that’ll be done in that time, and I don’t think class balance is going to matter to anyone, especially class balance for inquisitors. That being said, these are the changes I think would help the class the most. I’m including the ones previous posters have mentioned, but I am tweaking them slightly (because reasons). Remove the health threshold component for Prepared Defenses This has bothered me since the day inquisitors actually got a ward. Please remove the requirement for the mob to already be half dead in order for us to ward. Yes, I know some fights have adds (especially raid mobs) so in theory, we could use it more often. But it doesn’t change the fact we are the only healer that has this requirement for our wards. If I want to push this change to be even more awesome… Rework Prepared Defenses (the prestige point) to make it so the ward gets larger as the mob reaches certain hp thresholds. This would work similar to how Forced Confessions currently works (adds additional hits to the ability as the mob decreases in health). What I think would be cool is if from 100% to 76% mob health, the ward would be the base value it is on live (lets call this 100%). From 75% to 51% mob health, the ward would increase to 125%. From 50% to 26% mob health, the ward would increase to 150%. Then from 25% to dead, the ward would be at 175%. So with numbers (to explain that better cuz I can be pretty terrible with words… and not ACTUAL numbers, just example numbers!!) From 100% to 76% ward would be 1,000 From 75% to 51% ward would be 1,250 From 50% to 26% ward would be 1,500 From 25% to dead ward would be 1,750 If someone who is better at numbers than me could say if this is a horrible idea or not, please do. But explain why if you do. Make Ethereal Divinity reset more abilities Currently, this rune only resets 7 (8 if you spec left side) abilities on inquisitors. I think that Chilling Invigoration, Radiance, and Evidence of Faith should be added to the list of abilities this rune will reset. This honestly does not seem crazy to me because it would bump us up to 10 or 11 abilities that can reset (compared to I think 12 or 13 on a defiler last time I checked). It would also put us more in line with what can reset when compared to a shaman, because both shamans have their long recast wards reset. Add damage reduction to three of our abilities Adding damage reduction would be awesome. This would (in my mind) allow us to better solo heal groups, and also give us something unique amongst the healers. Sure, other healers have the ability to give damage reductions to tanks (and much smaller amounts to the group), but this would be different(!!). I think both Inquisition and Hastened Interrogation should give 10% damage reduction to the group, with the exception “if not fighter.” Now, I realize that may put people up in arms (ERMAGERD WHY NO DMG REDUCTION TO TANK?!?!?!). And it’s quite simple really. Most/all the tanks have the ability to keep themselves alive be it dodges from brawlers or stoneskins/damage reduction from the other classes. Allowing us to give damage reduction to everyone else in the group would allow us to keep the people who are actually squishy alive. The third ability I think should have damage reduction on it is Fanatical Grace. This is leftside spec, which as I said in my last post appears to be the more defensive side. I think the ability should just be completely reworked to give 5%, 10%, and 15% damage reduction to the target (1, 2, and 3 points, respectively). You could also allow this one to benefit your tank, so there would actually be a benefit to dropping the awesome that is right side if you found yourself stuck in a tank group in raids (or had a tank who wasn’t able to stay alive as well as they should). Increase the base damage of our combat arts and damage reactives I’m not asking for these to be increased dramatically, nothing to make them crazy OP. Just so we do more. Sure, we’re a healer, we should be focused on healing. But we are also one of the 3-ish offensive healers, so we should be able to do more at the expense of all the other defensive abilities other healers get. Even with 10k potency and over 200k abil mod my combat arts really don’t hit as hard as I would like them to. Perfected Inquest This ability just needs to be completely reworked or something. If you put all 3 points into it, you get 97 power to your group. Considering even inquest doesn’t seem to be great at this point, 97 just makes me sad. Ideally, this ability would be changed into a temp ability similar to Fae Fires or Stampede. Give it a 20 or so second duration, with a 3 minute base recast (so if you have 100% reuse it’d be 1 min 30 seconds) and put the damage somewhere in-between stampede and fae fires (boosted by fury cloak). I know, inquisitors have Act of War and Fanatical Devotion to give damage procs, but they really do not do much damage anymore. If you are unwilling to consider completely changing that ability into a temp damage spell, please consider upping the trigger chance and damage of Act of War. Act of War (with the focus increasing its trigger chance) only triggers 1.6 times per minute. Please increase the trigger chance to something more reasonable if completely changing Perfected Inquest is unreasonable. I could post more, cuz I think about this too much. But I think these changes would help the class the most. Or I can just delude myself into thinking they’d help the class be more appealing. Please? <3?

11-06-2016, 04:01 AM	#10
Malleria Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I think 10% DR is low balling and won't make much difference, especially given the duration of hastened interrogation. No point making token changes that won't really help, because it reduces the chance of getting a real fix down the road. Besides that, agree

11-10-2016, 12:52 AM	#12
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	Erevis: 'Remove the health threshold component for Prepared Defenses This has bothered me since the day inquisitors actually got a ward. Please remove the requirement for the mob to already be half dead in order for us to ward. Yes, I know some fights have adds (especially raid mobs) so in theory, we could use it more often. But it doesn’t change the fact we are the only healer that has this requirement for our wards. If I want to push this change to be even more awesome… Rework Prepared Defenses (the prestige point) to make it so the ward gets larger as the mob reaches certain hp thresholds. This would work similar to how Forced Confessions currently works (adds additional hits to the ability as the mob decreases in health). What I think would be cool is if from 100% to 76% mob health, the ward would be the base value it is on live (lets call this 100%). From 75% to 51% mob health, the ward would increase to 125%. From 50% to 26% mob health, the ward would increase to 150%. Then from 25% to dead, the ward would be at 175%.' The proposed variable ward is fine; and it mirrors the damage portion as well. However, I think the most important point would be to remove the health threshold, and then reduce the recast time (currently 22.5 sec @ 100% reuse) to about 15-17 sec range. That would increase the dps and hps of interrogation by approx 30-50%. Those changes would help the Inquisitor class considerably.

11-10-2016, 01:07 AM	#13
Daalilama Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Just about everyone I know who play heals have been trying forever to get that threshold removed....no reason for it at this stage of the game.

11-12-2016, 01:37 AM	#15
Daalilama Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	When I said no reason I was talking about the threshold not the ward....tbh doesnt make any sense for the threshold to exist anymore with current mechanics.

11-12-2016, 02:43 PM	#16
Curmudgeon Member Posts: n/a	Every comment I've read has been about modifying the inquisitor's offense tree, wouldn't it make more sense to fix the heal side tree so it is actually worth taking?

11-13-2016, 07:57 AM	#18
Tigerr Active Member Posts: n/a	There is absolutely no reason why the Interrogation change should not go in before this xpac. I understand the reasoning behind not doing this a couple of expacs ago but with today's stats, this ward on its cool down is not really that big of a deal. Even with the change you won't be begging for an Inquis over any of the shamans Also, Punishments needs fixed.