Swashy Love - Page 2

10-28-2016, 05:44 AM

Not to be that guy but our swashy typically parses fourth in the overall raid parse at the end of the night. You still play a pretty major DPS role, you just may not see it as much because the parse most raiders compare is that single target, minimal strat parse. Swashys IMO play a very key role in hastening the pulling of trash and removal of big groups of adds.

10-28-2016, 05:45 AM

It is my hope (as a non-healer) that the key class changes will effect the healers, I think our leather/plate healers are getting tired of rolling chain healers for the major progression fights.

10-29-2016, 08:40 AM

Overall largely true, however, if multiple other classes can do comparable AE dps and a Swash can't compete in single-target dps, the class will continue to be under-represented in top raiding guilds.

Also, taking Zek raid as an example, a trash 'encounter' is cleared in 10-20 seconds (although there may be multiple waves of such trash), while a named fight which is more difficult may take 5-10 minutes depending on raid dps. Here single-target dps is more valued, because while no one wipes on trash and it does not present a problem, the dps on a boss mob is much more valuable to allow you to get through the script, get valuable drops and progress as a raiding guild. It really is no contest.

10-30-2016, 02:32 AM

Your argument is that swashbucklers are a good trash class? That's what you consider a "major DPS role"?

11-01-2016, 10:33 PM

I definitely agree on the warlock myth idea, someone told me this was happening to troll me a couple months ago, boy was I excited until I found out he was trolling...

11-05-2016, 09:28 AM

we just need to unfortunately just suck it up, swash's got shafted again, and it doesn't seem like the devs seem to care a whole lot about the subject as harsh as that is, i love my swash, it's my favourite scout, so it saddens me that the devs don't give it real attention, but i'll play my tanks just as happily until they decide it's the swash's turn.

11-07-2016, 02:18 PM

It would have been super cool to also see Gninja add some more scout tank fights. I loved those. That would have helped a bit in the raid slot department. But buffs and single target dps will determine the outcome of the swash in Kunark Ascending. It's not over till it's over. I have faith in Caith and Kander.

11-07-2016, 06:27 PM

Maybe we just have an exceptional swash but he holds his own on single targets, in the top quarter of the parse, and goes back and forth with the lock on doubling everyone else on big ae pulls. I always thought that was how the classes were intended to be.

I don't play a swash but if I did it would be to spec and gear for max ae dmg, if i wanted to focus on single target I would enjoy a different class more.

11-08-2016, 02:52 AM

none of us are really trying to make swash an op powerhouse like a sin or a beastlord though, but it's just a fact that overall their damage output is outrageously low, if you're EXCEPTIONALLY well geared (ducky hat/myth psion hat, eth reset/fervor, hammer etc) you can put out DECENT numbers, or at least numbers that to normal ungodly players would LOOK decent, but you put all those into the hands of a brigand, and not only are they higher dps (which they should be as they are the single target oriented rogue) but they are so substantially higher that the swash has little to offer, the support they offer in the form of hate transfers is minimal in comparison to the fact that these fights are needing higher and higher dps in order to pass the checks, zeus made a comment in a thread recently, that was backed by many including myself, along with many raid leaders who weighed in on the subject, they are not worth taking to raid, period, sure you CAN have them and you probably won't suffer much for it, but there is a reason why none of the top 10 world wide guilds run swashy's their dps output vs the support they offer is not worth a raid spot to them, so either their damage needs to be buffed so they are at least competitive with brigs, not necessarily higher, but not buried miles beneath them as they are now, or the support abilities they offer need to be buffed to the point where they are desired regardless of the dps output of the class. overall the class has suffered for a while now, and hopefully there are more changes to come, or the epic 2.0 will work some miracle, but as it sits, even with the current changes made, having been a raid leader, i can put myself in their shoes, and as it sits i wouldn't sacrifice substantial dps for the little support that they offer or the sub par dps they bring to the table, but that's speaking out of the mindset of a world ranking raid leader, as a raid leader who cares for nothing but the fun of the game with ranking far out of mind, swash is still perfectly acceptable, but i personally could never justify having one knowing i could progress further without one. WELL there's my rant for the day, sorry about that lol i'm not the greatest at paraphrasing.

11-08-2016, 04:29 AM

So I agree with Alpherious_Maj'dul; but good God dude! Learn how to use paragraphs and periods. Reading that was a true exercise. Lol

11-08-2016, 01:42 PM

Musketeers, top 3 guild, recruiting swash since servers merge in march, but it looks like imposible cause in russian EQ2 community no one want play this class in raids. Its true that swash need some tweaks, but its not that useless as many thinks.

11-08-2016, 02:52 PM

With combat mit being a new thing, and resolve being a newish thing, and fervor being AWOL thing in Kunark Ascending, I think Caith has plenty of wiggle room with a nice swashy buff package. We have all these things, but they were given in such small doses that most raid leaders don't see the value in them.

As far as DPS goes, I have parsed the increase to Precision Striking. I honestly don't see any difference.

11-09-2016, 03:16 AM

did you really expect to see any increase with that upgrade? we have 2 maybe 3 skills that actually apply to that buff, it does next to nothing, our sunder/thieving essence hits harder now, and a few aoes are a bit better i think (enfeebling whirl i believe fits the cd criteria) still it's not a sufficient increase, honestly it feels more like they kind of spite buffed us knowing it wasn't actually going to do anything.

11-10-2016, 01:07 AM

The beta version applies to all CAs (recast timer restriction removed), and includes 10% base damage and 10% crit damage increase.

11-10-2016, 05:39 PM

Seems like they listened to zeus on that one, i'm glad they did, and zeus you're still saying it's not making much of a difference? Right now swash may not be t1 but there are people that want them, i'm very happy with that change, a little more would be better, but i'll take my wins where i can find them lol.

11-10-2016, 05:54 PM

In the interest of full disclosure I should mention a few things. First, I don't raid my swashy any more. So when I got to beta I stripped a few copies of my defiler in order to gear him out. So on beta he is raid geared with exception of a few pieces of jewelry that I could not unattune. With that said I am seeing an obvious increase in DPS, from the gear. So now that we got that out of the way let me explain my opinion of the increase to Precision Striking.

Once Caith posted that there was gong to be a change I logged in and parsed for a few hours (both CA's and went AFK to parse autoattack and Devestation Strike weapon). Based on that parse set and ones I did two/three days ago there does appear to be a difference in single target CA's. There is clear increase in outbound single target CA's, especially right side with Seafury Thrust. The difference is exactly on par with the 10% and 10%. Zonewide DPS when parsed in actual dungeons has not changed enough to show any change at all. But it is certainly visible on the training dum dum. More info and parses are needed to really show any change. That's the whole story.

I did offer to bring in my swash for some raid testing last night. I quickly got a reply of "F--- swashies".

10-29-2016, 08:40 AM	#33
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	Kouzatc said: ↑ “Not to be that guy but our swashy typically parses fourth in the overall raid parse at the end of the night. You still play a pretty major DPS role, you just may not see it as much because the parse most raiders compare is that single target, minimal strat parse. Swashys IMO play a very key role in hastening the pulling of trash and removal of big groups of adds.” Overall largely true, however, if multiple other classes can do comparable AE dps and a Swash can't compete in single-target dps, the class will continue to be under-represented in top raiding guilds. Also, taking Zek raid as an example, a trash 'encounter' is cleared in 10-20 seconds (although there may be multiple waves of such trash), while a named fight which is more difficult may take 5-10 minutes depending on raid dps. Here single-target dps is more valued, because while no one wipes on trash and it does not present a problem, the dps on a boss mob is much more valuable to allow you to get through the script, get valuable drops and progress as a raiding guild. It really is no contest.

10-30-2016, 02:32 AM	#34
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Kouzatc said: ↑ “Not to be that guy but our swashy typically parses fourth in the overall raid parse at the end of the night. You still play a pretty major DPS role, you just may not see it as much because the parse most raiders compare is that single target, minimal strat parse. Swashys IMO play a very key role in hastening the pulling of trash and removal of big groups of adds.” Your argument is that swashbucklers are a good trash class? That's what you consider a "major DPS role"?

11-07-2016, 02:18 PM	#37
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	alpherious_Maj'dul said: ↑ “we just need to unfortunately just suck it up, swash's got shafted again, and it doesn't seem like the devs seem to care a whole lot about the subject as harsh as that is, i love my swash, it's my favourite scout, so it saddens me that the devs don't give it real attention, but i'll play my tanks just as happily until they decide it's the swash's turn.” It would have been super cool to also see Gninja add some more scout tank fights. I loved those. That would have helped a bit in the raid slot department. But buffs and single target dps will determine the outcome of the swash in Kunark Ascending. It's not over till it's over. I have faith in Caith and Kander.

11-08-2016, 02:52 AM	#39
alpherious_Maj'dul New Member Posts: n/a	Nkito said: ↑ “Maybe we just have an exceptional swash but he holds his own on single targets, in the top quarter of the parse, and goes back and forth with the lock on doubling everyone else on big ae pulls. I always thought that was how the classes were intended to be. I don't play a swash but if I did it would be to spec and gear for max ae dmg, if i wanted to focus on single target I would enjoy a different class more.” none of us are really trying to make swash an op powerhouse like a sin or a beastlord though, but it's just a fact that overall their damage output is outrageously low, if you're EXCEPTIONALLY well geared (ducky hat/myth psion hat, eth reset/fervor, hammer etc) you can put out DECENT numbers, or at least numbers that to normal ungodly players would LOOK decent, but you put all those into the hands of a brigand, and not only are they higher dps (which they should be as they are the single target oriented rogue) but they are so substantially higher that the swash has little to offer, the support they offer in the form of hate transfers is minimal in comparison to the fact that these fights are needing higher and higher dps in order to pass the checks, zeus made a comment in a thread recently, that was backed by many including myself, along with many raid leaders who weighed in on the subject, they are not worth taking to raid, period, sure you CAN have them and you probably won't suffer much for it, but there is a reason why none of the top 10 world wide guilds run swashy's their dps output vs the support they offer is not worth a raid spot to them, so either their damage needs to be buffed so they are at least competitive with brigs, not necessarily higher, but not buried miles beneath them as they are now, or the support abilities they offer need to be buffed to the point where they are desired regardless of the dps output of the class. overall the class has suffered for a while now, and hopefully there are more changes to come, or the epic 2.0 will work some miracle, but as it sits, even with the current changes made, having been a raid leader, i can put myself in their shoes, and as it sits i wouldn't sacrifice substantial dps for the little support that they offer or the sub par dps they bring to the table, but that's speaking out of the mindset of a world ranking raid leader, as a raid leader who cares for nothing but the fun of the game with ranking far out of mind, swash is still perfectly acceptable, but i personally could never justify having one knowing i could progress further without one. WELL there's my rant for the day, sorry about that lol i'm not the greatest at paraphrasing.

11-08-2016, 01:42 PM	#41
Ykysh New Member Posts: n/a	alpherious_Maj'dul said: ↑ “zeus made a comment in a thread recently, that was backed by many including myself, along with many raid leaders who weighed in on the subject, they are not worth taking to raid, period, sure you CAN have them and you probably won't suffer much for it, but there is a reason why none of the top 10 world wide guilds run swashy's their dps output vs the support they offer is not worth a raid spot to them.” Musketeers, top 3 guild, recruiting swash since servers merge in march, but it looks like imposible cause in russian EQ2 community no one want play this class in raids. Its true that swash need some tweaks, but its not that useless as many thinks.

10-28-2016, 05:44 AM	#31
Kouzatc New Member Posts: n/a	Not to be that guy but our swashy typically parses fourth in the overall raid parse at the end of the night. You still play a pretty major DPS role, you just may not see it as much because the parse most raiders compare is that single target, minimal strat parse. Swashys IMO play a very key role in hastening the pulling of trash and removal of big groups of adds.

10-28-2016, 05:45 AM	#32
Kouzatc New Member Posts: n/a	It is my hope (as a non-healer) that the key class changes will effect the healers, I think our leather/plate healers are getting tired of rolling chain healers for the major progression fights.

11-01-2016, 10:33 PM	#35
Jachin Member Posts: n/a	I definitely agree on the warlock myth idea, someone told me this was happening to troll me a couple months ago, boy was I excited until I found out he was trolling...

11-05-2016, 09:28 AM	#36
alpherious_Maj'dul New Member Posts: n/a	we just need to unfortunately just suck it up, swash's got shafted again, and it doesn't seem like the devs seem to care a whole lot about the subject as harsh as that is, i love my swash, it's my favourite scout, so it saddens me that the devs don't give it real attention, but i'll play my tanks just as happily until they decide it's the swash's turn.

11-07-2016, 06:27 PM	#38
Nkito Member Posts: n/a	Maybe we just have an exceptional swash but he holds his own on single targets, in the top quarter of the parse, and goes back and forth with the lock on doubling everyone else on big ae pulls. I always thought that was how the classes were intended to be. I don't play a swash but if I did it would be to spec and gear for max ae dmg, if i wanted to focus on single target I would enjoy a different class more.

11-08-2016, 04:29 AM	#40
Lyricus New Member Posts: n/a	So I agree with Alpherious_Maj'dul; but good God dude! Learn how to use paragraphs and periods. Reading that was a true exercise. Lol

11-08-2016, 02:52 PM	#42
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	With combat mit being a new thing, and resolve being a newish thing, and fervor being AWOL thing in Kunark Ascending, I think Caith has plenty of wiggle room with a nice swashy buff package. We have all these things, but they were given in such small doses that most raid leaders don't see the value in them. As far as DPS goes, I have parsed the increase to Precision Striking. I honestly don't see any difference.

11-09-2016, 03:16 AM	#43
alpherious_Maj'dul New Member Posts: n/a	did you really expect to see any increase with that upgrade? we have 2 maybe 3 skills that actually apply to that buff, it does next to nothing, our sunder/thieving essence hits harder now, and a few aoes are a bit better i think (enfeebling whirl i believe fits the cd criteria) still it's not a sufficient increase, honestly it feels more like they kind of spite buffed us knowing it wasn't actually going to do anything.

11-10-2016, 01:07 AM	#44
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	alpherious_Maj'dul said: ↑ “did you really expect to see any increase with that upgrade? we have 2 maybe 3 skills that actually apply to that buff, it does next to nothing, our sunder/thieving essence hits harder now, and a few aoes are a bit better i think (enfeebling whirl i believe fits the cd criteria) still it's not a sufficient increase, honestly it feels more like they kind of spite buffed us knowing it wasn't actually going to do anything.” The beta version applies to all CAs (recast timer restriction removed), and includes 10% base damage and 10% crit damage increase.

11-10-2016, 05:39 PM	#45
alpherious_Maj'dul New Member Posts: n/a	Mark John said: ↑ “The beta version applies to all CAs (recast timer restriction removed), and includes 10% base damage and 10% crit damage increase.” Seems like they listened to zeus on that one, i'm glad they did, and zeus you're still saying it's not making much of a difference? Right now swash may not be t1 but there are people that want them, i'm very happy with that change, a little more would be better, but i'll take my wins where i can find them lol.

11-10-2016, 05:54 PM	#46
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	alpherious_Maj'dul said: ↑ “Seems like they listened to zeus on that one, i'm glad they did, and zeus you're still saying it's not making much of a difference? Right now swash may not be t1 but there are people that want them, i'm very happy with that change, a little more would be better, but i'll take my wins where i can find them lol.” In the interest of full disclosure I should mention a few things. First, I don't raid my swashy any more. So when I got to beta I stripped a few copies of my defiler in order to gear him out. So on beta he is raid geared with exception of a few pieces of jewelry that I could not unattune. With that said I am seeing an obvious increase in DPS, from the gear. So now that we got that out of the way let me explain my opinion of the increase to Precision Striking. Once Caith posted that there was gong to be a change I logged in and parsed for a few hours (both CA's and went AFK to parse autoattack and Devestation Strike weapon). Based on that parse set and ones I did two/three days ago there does appear to be a difference in single target CA's. There is clear increase in outbound single target CA's, especially right side with Seafury Thrust. The difference is exactly on par with the 10% and 10%. Zonewide DPS when parsed in actual dungeons has not changed enough to show any change at all. But it is certainly visible on the training dum dum. More info and parses are needed to really show any change. That's the whole story. I did offer to bring in my swash for some raid testing last night. I quickly got a reply of "F--- swashies".