Swashy Love

10-14-2016, 02:24 PM

Caith

10-14-2016, 07:12 PM

Please.

I apologize for bringing this to the beta forums but I figured since you're working on the Epic 2.0 weapons that you might give swashbucklers a little lovin. We just need raid leaders to need / want swashies. It is a good opportunity to at least ask. Thank you.

10-14-2016, 09:39 PM

I feel that all scout classes could use some love to bring us on par with our mage counterparts. While ascension classes and epic 2.0 weapons are exciting concepts, I suspect that they will do little to bridge the immense power gap between said archetypes (*especially* in reference to summoners).

I understand that it's difficult to gauge the performance of each individual class due to the copious number of variables contributing to a player's output, but it's fair to say that scouts are underperforming relative to mages. PLEASE do something to rectify the disparity before it's too late (preferably without reducing the effectiveness of other classes).

A number of ideas have been brought up in the scout forum, including upgrading our stat conversion prestige AAs. Presently, scouts are struggling to break 2k crit bonus whereas mages exceeded the 3k cap last expansion.

--Vynie

Caith · 10-14-2016, 10:05 PM

None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.

10-14-2016, 10:09 PM

I like the sound of that. Thank you for replying.

10-15-2016, 05:22 AM

I'm excited yet scared LOL

10-15-2016, 05:54 AM

#makebardsgreatagain #givechantersutility #unnerffieryblast

10-15-2016, 04:13 PM

I have held off on buying the collectors editions until I see how much of a mess this class balance pass brings. We shall see!

10-15-2016, 04:37 PM

Bards never stopped being great =P At least not in our own minds! Joking aside I too look forward to seeing what changes are coming to my beloved Bard!

10-15-2016, 05:37 PM

Bards stopped being great when they nerfed searing passion. But I understand why it needed to be nerfed.

10-15-2016, 05:40 PM

Darchon6 said: ↑

“I feel that all scout classes could use some love to bring us on par with our mage counterparts. While ascension classes and epic 2.0 weapons are exciting concepts, I suspect that they will do little to bridge the immense power gap between said archetypes (*especially* in reference to summoners).

I understand that it's difficult to gauge the performance of each individual class due to the copious number of variables contributing to a player's output, but it's fair to say that scouts are underperforming relative to mages. PLEASE do something to rectify the disparity before it's too late (preferably without reducing the effectiveness of other classes).

A number of ideas have been brought up in the scout forum, including upgrading our stat conversion prestige AAs. Presently, scouts are struggling to break 2k crit bonus whereas mages exceeded the 3k cap last expansion.

--Vynie”

Also depends on the gear. It's currently possible to cap crit bonus on any toon, as long as you have good gear. Mages hit it more easily, but once they do hit it, the only real advantage they have is reforging out of crit bonus, which does bring some more stats to the table. Any T1 dps can compete, it's just a matter of player gear and skill. But some classes do have it easier.

10-15-2016, 07:37 PM

incomming nerf to Summoners and Beastlords

10-15-2016, 09:09 PM

Scouts can cap CB with some best in slot gear and a few million plat infusing...mages get to do it with average gear and a prestige point

duckster · 10-16-2016, 12:22 PM

Only seen a handful of items but it looks like CB will be easier to cap assuming they leave it at 3k. That said, the prestige conversions do benefit a number of classes more than others ...

10-16-2016, 01:20 PM

Classes are pretty close atm t1 are all up there geared and skilled pitta is on the money.

10-20-2016, 07:49 PM

Anyone spot any class changes yet?

10-20-2016, 09:38 PM

This is what I keep hoping to see in the update notes....specifically scout prestige conversions getting a boost or mage's being brought down inline compared to scouts.

Since weapon procs will critically hit now, it'd be nice to see poisons do the same to narrow the gap between beastlords and other T1 scouts

10-21-2016, 03:25 PM

Beast lords don't need a nerf Tongue

10-21-2016, 09:17 PM

Classes are pretty close atm even blords,there's a proc in game that sorta changes things a bit but hopefully the Dev have plans for it because redoing classes around it or nerfing is just silly.

10-22-2016, 12:45 AM

/keeps refreshing this thread

10-22-2016, 09:48 PM

As far as class balance, I think it will be a challenge for the devs.
The 'prestige conversion' issue only highlights the problem that the potency explosion has incurred, which is primarily the desirability of dps vs utility, and on the healer side the issue of massively effective wards so bolstered by potency that non-ward classes will see minimal heals if grouped with a shaman, begging the question, are two healers per raid group (even tank and off-tank) even required?

On the dps side, dps is directly measurable and observable via parsing. Some elements of utility may be measurable, but usually only to the extent they contribute to ... dps. Therefore, some well functioning utilities may be undervalued by raiding guilds because dps is so readily measured. If raid/guild leaders, as reflected in the recruiting options they chose, prefer certain classes, and invariably those classes are valued primarily for dps, then devs should respond to that to keep all classes (like bards and swash for example) viable.

10-23-2016, 01:48 AM

Agreed - swashies are a utility class that happen to be able to dps and tank (sometimes). We don't want to be able to do it ALL - we want to be considered exactly what we are - a utility class that BRINGS something to the raid besides our 15 points of resolve (though I do believe I read that resolve is being adjusted to address this - can someone else back me up here or am I just wishful thinking that I read that somewhere on the beta forum).

10-23-2016, 06:44 AM

Whoever said Swashbuckler was a utility class? Whoever said it was supposed to be tier _ dps? They've been neglected for so long that this is just a stereotype formed by the player base. Ofcoarse the stereotype gets it's origin from the ongoing lack of swashy performance and viability.

10-23-2016, 08:10 AM

I think the class balance will be around the new epics and maybe some conversion changes.

10-23-2016, 08:40 AM

I certainly hope not. If the swashy gets fixed and raids actually start recruiting them I'll have to re-app to my guild with it. Not to mention the time investment into prepping for Epic 2.0. I can't invest that much time into blind faith that epic 2.0's will make swashies desirable again. In this case I have no choice but to invest my efforts into my current raid main.

The other thing is I plan on pulling out my credit card if swash gets fixed. I'll have to swap all my gear over. So there's 16 unattuners right there. Then the Ascension levels, merc levels and a character transfer. I plan on purchasing my way to level 5 so I can start my epic 2.0. I'm only going to do that on one character, regardless of which one remains my raid main. It's going to be expensive.

Errrorr · 10-23-2016, 12:44 PM

Personally I'd give swashies original myth buff a change to make it like the warlock one.

When on, all blues become single target with 60% increase in damage, when off, blues the same.

It'd need adjusting as my numbers are finger in the air, but it'd potentially give Swshies a bit more chance.

Biggest gripe I see from swashies seems to be they love their AoE dps but single target is meh.

10-23-2016, 03:36 PM

I love that idea. Best one I've heard yet!

10-24-2016, 08:10 AM

Exactly. That is what I was trying to get at in earlier posts. If you settle for being a 'utility class' that does less dps, and that utility is not measurable and quantifiable, as dps readily is, then you lose your raid spot, or you are asked to sit frequently while the 'necessary' and measurable dps classes actually play.

Bottom line, utility is either mandatory and measurable, or it is unnecessary and your 'utility 'class is broken if you cannot compete in dps.

Lucus · 10-25-2016, 12:21 AM

you can do good AOE dps and ok single target if you spec right. it's a trade off we do good AOE and as a result we can't get good single target. that's just part of the class, brigs do good single target, swashies do good aoe.

10-25-2016, 03:52 PM

Every class can do good AOE dps if they spec and gear for it. What's your point? Swashies are still doing about the exact same AOE dps as brigs and substantially less than most other non-healer classes on the zonewide (with exception of some large spikes on trash encounters). Assassins for example are primarily a single target class, but they destroy swashies on AOE fights. And swashies single target damage is laughable. There are only so many slots on a raid. You can't yank a proven high dps class for a swashy just for large spikes on trash pulls.

I asked the guild leaders of Revelations last night what it would take approve a swashy app. They simply said "something substantial". And I think most raid leaders would agree with that as well. They just don't bring enough to the table to justify filling the slot for that role (dps). Last xpac many guilds could justify having one on the roster for the scout tank fight. But that's no longer the case.

10-14-2016, 10:09 PM	#5
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Caith said: ↑ “None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.” I like the sound of that. Thank you for replying.

10-15-2016, 05:22 AM	#6
Rondo9 Active Member Posts: n/a	Caith said: ↑ “None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.” I'm excited yet scared LOL

10-15-2016, 05:54 AM	#7
Pitta Member Posts: n/a	Caith said: ↑ “None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.” #makebardsgreatagain #givechantersutility #unnerffieryblast

10-15-2016, 04:37 PM	#9
Kelvani Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Pitta said: ↑ “#makebardsgreatagain #givechantersutility #unnerffieryblast” Bards never stopped being great =P At least not in our own minds! Joking aside I too look forward to seeing what changes are coming to my beloved Bard!

10-15-2016, 05:37 PM	#10
Pitta Member Posts: n/a	Kelvani said: ↑ “Bards never stopped being great =P At least not in our own minds! Joking aside I too look forward to seeing what changes are coming to my beloved Bard!” Bards stopped being great when they nerfed searing passion. But I understand why it needed to be nerfed.

10-14-2016, 02:24 PM	#1
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Caith

10-14-2016, 07:12 PM	#2
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Please. I apologize for bringing this to the beta forums but I figured since you're working on the Epic 2.0 weapons that you might give swashbucklers a little lovin. We just need raid leaders to need / want swashies. It is a good opportunity to at least ask. Thank you.

10-14-2016, 09:39 PM	#3
Darchon6 New Member Posts: n/a	I feel that all scout classes could use some love to bring us on par with our mage counterparts. While ascension classes and epic 2.0 weapons are exciting concepts, I suspect that they will do little to bridge the immense power gap between said archetypes (especially in reference to summoners). I understand that it's difficult to gauge the performance of each individual class due to the copious number of variables contributing to a player's output, but it's fair to say that scouts are underperforming relative to mages. PLEASE do something to rectify the disparity before it's too late (preferably without reducing the effectiveness of other classes). A number of ideas have been brought up in the scout forum, including upgrading our stat conversion prestige AAs. Presently, scouts are struggling to break 2k crit bonus whereas mages exceeded the 3k cap last expansion. --Vynie

10-14-2016, 10:05 PM	#4
Caith Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.

10-15-2016, 04:13 PM	#8
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	I have held off on buying the collectors editions until I see how much of a mess this class balance pass brings. We shall see!

10-15-2016, 05:40 PM	#11
Pitta Member Posts: n/a	Darchon6 said: ↑ “I feel that all scout classes could use some love to bring us on par with our mage counterparts. While ascension classes and epic 2.0 weapons are exciting concepts, I suspect that they will do little to bridge the immense power gap between said archetypes (especially in reference to summoners). I understand that it's difficult to gauge the performance of each individual class due to the copious number of variables contributing to a player's output, but it's fair to say that scouts are underperforming relative to mages. PLEASE do something to rectify the disparity before it's too late (preferably without reducing the effectiveness of other classes). A number of ideas have been brought up in the scout forum, including upgrading our stat conversion prestige AAs. Presently, scouts are struggling to break 2k crit bonus whereas mages exceeded the 3k cap last expansion. --Vynie” Also depends on the gear. It's currently possible to cap crit bonus on any toon, as long as you have good gear. Mages hit it more easily, but once they do hit it, the only real advantage they have is reforging out of crit bonus, which does bring some more stats to the table. Any T1 dps can compete, it's just a matter of player gear and skill. But some classes do have it easier.

10-15-2016, 07:37 PM	#12
Stimps Member Posts: n/a	incomming nerf to Summoners and Beastlords

10-15-2016, 09:09 PM	#13
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	Pitta said: ↑ “Also depends on the gear. It's currently possible to cap crit bonus on any toon, as long as you have good gear. Mages hit it more easily, but once they do hit it, the only real advantage they have is reforging out of crit bonus, which does bring some more stats to the table. Any T1 dps can compete, it's just a matter of player gear and skill. But some classes do have it easier.” Scouts can cap CB with some best in slot gear and a few million plat infusing...mages get to do it with average gear and a prestige point

10-16-2016, 12:22 PM	#14
duckster Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	kluxor said: ↑ “Scouts can cap CB with some best in slot gear and a few million plat infusing...mages get to do it with average gear and a prestige point” Only seen a handful of items but it looks like CB will be easier to cap assuming they leave it at 3k. That said, the prestige conversions do benefit a number of classes more than others ...

10-16-2016, 01:20 PM	#15
Ashandra Active Member Posts: n/a	Classes are pretty close atm t1 are all up there geared and skilled pitta is on the money.

10-20-2016, 07:49 PM	#16
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Anyone spot any class changes yet?

10-20-2016, 09:38 PM	#17
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	ZUES said: ↑ “Anyone spot any class changes yet?” This is what I keep hoping to see in the update notes....specifically scout prestige conversions getting a boost or mage's being brought down inline compared to scouts. Since weapon procs will critically hit now, it'd be nice to see poisons do the same to narrow the gap between beastlords and other T1 scouts

10-21-2016, 03:25 PM	#18
Alway New Member Posts: n/a	Stimps said: ↑ “incomming nerf to Summoners and Beastlords” Beast lords don't need a nerf

10-21-2016, 09:17 PM	#19
Ashandra Active Member Posts: n/a	Classes are pretty close atm even blords,there's a proc in game that sorta changes things a bit but hopefully the Dev have plans for it because redoing classes around it or nerfing is just silly.

10-22-2016, 12:45 AM	#20
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	/keeps refreshing this thread

10-22-2016, 09:48 PM	#21
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	As far as class balance, I think it will be a challenge for the devs. The 'prestige conversion' issue only highlights the problem that the potency explosion has incurred, which is primarily the desirability of dps vs utility, and on the healer side the issue of massively effective wards so bolstered by potency that non-ward classes will see minimal heals if grouped with a shaman, begging the question, are two healers per raid group (even tank and off-tank) even required? On the dps side, dps is directly measurable and observable via parsing. Some elements of utility may be measurable, but usually only to the extent they contribute to ... dps. Therefore, some well functioning utilities may be undervalued by raiding guilds because dps is so readily measured. If raid/guild leaders, as reflected in the recruiting options they chose, prefer certain classes, and invariably those classes are valued primarily for dps, then devs should respond to that to keep all classes (like bards and swash for example) viable.

10-23-2016, 01:48 AM	#22
Raffy New Member Posts: n/a	Agreed - swashies are a utility class that happen to be able to dps and tank (sometimes). We don't want to be able to do it ALL - we want to be considered exactly what we are - a utility class that BRINGS something to the raid besides our 15 points of resolve (though I do believe I read that resolve is being adjusted to address this - can someone else back me up here or am I just wishful thinking that I read that somewhere on the beta forum).

10-23-2016, 06:44 AM	#23
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Raffy said: ↑ “Agreed - swashies are a utility class that happen to be able to dps and tank (sometimes). We don't want to be able to do it ALL - we want to be considered exactly what we are - a utility class that BRINGS something to the raid besides our 15 points of resolve (though I do believe I read that resolve is being adjusted to address this - can someone else back me up here or am I just wishful thinking that I read that somewhere on the beta forum).” Whoever said Swashbuckler was a utility class? Whoever said it was supposed to be tier _ dps? They've been neglected for so long that this is just a stereotype formed by the player base. Ofcoarse the stereotype gets it's origin from the ongoing lack of swashy performance and viability.

10-23-2016, 08:10 AM	#24
CSP84 Member Posts: n/a	I think the class balance will be around the new epics and maybe some conversion changes.

10-23-2016, 08:40 AM	#25
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	CSP84 said: ↑ “I think the class balance will be around the new epics and maybe some conversion changes.” I certainly hope not. If the swashy gets fixed and raids actually start recruiting them I'll have to re-app to my guild with it. Not to mention the time investment into prepping for Epic 2.0. I can't invest that much time into blind faith that epic 2.0's will make swashies desirable again. In this case I have no choice but to invest my efforts into my current raid main. The other thing is I plan on pulling out my credit card if swash gets fixed. I'll have to swap all my gear over. So there's 16 unattuners right there. Then the Ascension levels, merc levels and a character transfer. I plan on purchasing my way to level 5 so I can start my epic 2.0. I'm only going to do that on one character, regardless of which one remains my raid main. It's going to be expensive.

10-23-2016, 12:44 PM	#26
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Personally I'd give swashies original myth buff a change to make it like the warlock one. When on, all blues become single target with 60% increase in damage, when off, blues the same. It'd need adjusting as my numbers are finger in the air, but it'd potentially give Swshies a bit more chance. Biggest gripe I see from swashies seems to be they love their AoE dps but single target is meh.

10-23-2016, 03:36 PM	#27
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Errrorr said: ↑ “Personally I'd give swashies original myth buff a change to make it like the warlock one. When on, all blues become single target with 60% increase in damage, when off, blues the same. It'd need adjusting as my numbers are finger in the air, but it'd potentially give Swshies a bit more chance. Biggest gripe I see from swashies seems to be they love their AoE dps but single target is meh.” I love that idea. Best one I've heard yet!

10-24-2016, 08:10 AM	#28
Mark John New Member Posts: n/a	ZUES said: ↑ “Whoever said Swashbuckler was a utility class? Whoever said it was supposed to be tier _ dps? They've been neglected for so long that this is just a stereotype formed by the player base. Ofcoarse the stereotype gets it's origin from the ongoing lack of swashy performance and viability.” Exactly. That is what I was trying to get at in earlier posts. If you settle for being a 'utility class' that does less dps, and that utility is not measurable and quantifiable, as dps readily is, then you lose your raid spot, or you are asked to sit frequently while the 'necessary' and measurable dps classes actually play. Bottom line, utility is either mandatory and measurable, or it is unnecessary and your 'utility 'class is broken if you cannot compete in dps.

10-25-2016, 12:21 AM	#29
Lucus Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 3	Errrorr said: ↑ “Biggest gripe I see from swashies seems to be they love their AoE dps but single target is meh.” you can do good AOE dps and ok single target if you spec right. it's a trade off we do good AOE and as a result we can't get good single target. that's just part of the class, brigs do good single target, swashies do good aoe.

10-25-2016, 03:52 PM	#30
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Lucus said: ↑ “you can do good AOE dps and ok single target if you spec right. it's a trade off we do good AOE and as a result we can't get good single target. that's just part of the class, brigs do good single target, swashies do good aoe.” Every class can do good AOE dps if they spec and gear for it. What's your point? Swashies are still doing about the exact same AOE dps as brigs and substantially less than most other non-healer classes on the zonewide (with exception of some large spikes on trash encounters). Assassins for example are primarily a single target class, but they destroy swashies on AOE fights. And swashies single target damage is laughable. There are only so many slots on a raid. You can't yank a proven high dps class for a swashy just for large spikes on trash pulls. I asked the guild leaders of Revelations last night what it would take approve a swashy app. They simply said "something substantial". And I think most raid leaders would agree with that as well. They just don't bring enough to the table to justify filling the slot for that role (dps). Last xpac many guilds could justify having one on the roster for the scout tank fight. But that's no longer the case.