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Old 10-26-2015, 07:14 PM   #31
Bloodguts

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ToV didn't have critical mitigation, just required a certain amount of critical chance to be able to damage enemies properly. This was easily achievable if you raided in the previous expansion with Drinal/Siren's Grotto armor/jewelry and Pirate King weapons.

Going into AoM we had the resists for the majority of the raiding content with ToV raiding gear until Ka'Rah Ferun and Protector of Bones. Then you were required to run some heroics or craft Mastercrafted gear to fill in the slots you lacked resists, adorned for resists, and crafted Guardian Charms for the entire raid just to be able to survive Ka'Rah Ferun's AoE long enough to kill him.

Looking at the resists from gear so far in ToT seems like a small upgrade in resists, so i'm assuming entry-level raid encounters in this coming expansion will not have a hard resist check and i'm just basing that of previous expansion raiding designs for entry-level content. I could be wrong but we'll see.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:44 PM   #32
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You've made some fairly good posts in these forums in the past, but when you read this:




and interpret it as:

then I frankly am not interested in continuing to humour the argument.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:47 PM   #33
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I don't see why this is really such a new concept. It's something that always happens when we get a proper expansion change. It usually comes with level increases. It's been this way for how many years now?

Current raid gear will most likely allow you to skip the questlines and stuff, and save some time. So it's not like it's a total waste to you.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:50 PM   #34
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If that was the case, then fine. But it really isn't, read my previous post.

When in previous expansion, raid gear lasted us to some extent deep into heroic content or maybe into entry-level raiding content, now we go directly into direct upgrades from entry-level quested gear.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:55 PM   #35
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So your top end raiding gear you get the equivalent without having to do the questlines, as my previous post states.

Anybody else, will have to do the questlines to get that level of gear.

Compare Skyshrine to CoE,
SF to DoV
RoK to SF

It is a gear reset plain and simple. If they didn't, top raiders would skip most the casual content, and the more casual players wouldn't be able to catch up without having to revisit old content.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:16 PM   #36
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Short answer: You were not raiding to get the loot to prepare for the next expansion but because you enjoyed it and be able to clear the raid content of the expansion.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:26 PM   #37
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we stopped raiding AoM already BigGrin
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:52 PM   #38
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Its a gear reset Im a raider and Im not going Mad

They are introducing a new system for gear and probably didnt have the time nor the resources to add this new system to the massive amount of old gear from AOM. Infusing anyone? Notice the older gear is not infusable? Im sure they will put plenty to do in this expac if not all at once gradually to keep people busy somewhat, we will have to wait and see its all new now isnt it?
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:44 PM   #39
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Actually infusing would allow the new solo/heroic gear to start lower than current raid and then be 'infused' to be caught up if they so wished.

People keep talking about past gear resets but there has never been a reset of this magnitude in the past where ALL GEAR of the previous xpac is instantly outmoded by Legendary gear of the next.

No one is asking that current raid gear be only replaceable by new raid gear, only that its not so clearly replaced by gear from the easiest content type.

I would also like to point out raiders don't only raid to play with 20~ other people during content. If that was the case raid mobs could drop quested level rewards and you'd see no flux in the raid population. Raiders also raid for the most powerful items in game and to exercise that power over 'lower' content; heroics, quests, solo zones, entry raid content, etc. Being able to get raid drops and use them to eventually steamroll easier content is part of the reward from raiding. If all I got from raiding was side grades or 5% better items than heroic, I wouldn't raid at all, and if I wasn't raiding I wouldn't play at all.
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Old 10-27-2015, 12:23 AM   #40
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Some of the quest gear etc is pre infused already hence the higher stats. Whats the difference if you get a piece of quest gear then put a bunch of infusers in it that wasnt pre infused vs it already being infused with higher stats anyway. So doesnt matter if it starts with lower stats you can infuse it till there is a cap.
Maybe the cap on the quested gear will be lower than the raid gear cap will be, Im sure thats how its set up now. So you can probably only go so high with the quest gear vs raid gear with infusion.

Hence gear reset I dont see any other way they could have done this really the world is not coming to an end seriously
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Old 10-27-2015, 12:44 AM   #41
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Basically NEW gear with stats above previous raid content does 1 Major thing ...

It Levels the playing field. Of course those with previous T2 raid gear will have an advantage if that means you and you don't like that then so reforge all your potency into useless stats lol.

Question is if you don't like the fact that new xpac gear is better can you offer a solution ?

/pause

didn't think so
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:17 AM   #42
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Sure, i can offer tons of solutions.

What problem are you trying to solve? If you're saying "what do we do instead of making all the xpac gear better?", the solution is "don't make all of it better, instead create progression that results in all gear being replaced gradually - the same that it has been done in many past expansions".

If you're trying to solve something else, I am happy to provide lots of solutions, just tell me what "problem" you want solutions for.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:14 AM   #43
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I understand that point.

But this can easily be resolved by leaving the resists on the quested gear/solo gear, and then reducing the other stats to the point where previous raid gear is not completely worthless. Then balancing entry-level raiding content to not have a hard resist check but still require a good amount of it and leave that hard resist check (instant death if you don't fulfill the required resist amount) to tier 2 raids.

See ToV to AoM.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:15 AM   #44
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ToV to AoM, where the key was to scrap all your previous expansions Jewelery and get handcrafted/mastercrafted ASAP for the resists. Check.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:20 AM   #45
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Some slots, yes. But not all slots with solo quested gear...
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:24 AM   #46
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You also need to consider the following;

The gap between Solo & Top End Raid Gear needs to exist, but not be substantial.

If you have solo gear being a lot lower than current gear, it means the potential to increase top end ToT raid gear is far less. That is when we then end up in the DoV stage with 0.5% gear upgrades.

You either have the more casual side of the game able to gear up effectively and be relevant to content, or you have top end raiders able to blitz through content super quick and then complain it's too easy.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:30 AM   #47
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The point people are missing is that raiders play because they like to raid. Just as some people only play to do house decorating, some raiders play only to raid. (Disclaimer: I raid. I also quest, group, craft, and do interior decorating. But I'm cognizant of those who have less widespread interests.)

The hardcore raiders generally don't want to be forced to do heroic zones, and it feels like a loss when after you have worked and died, and died, and died, and died before FINALLY killing the thing that gives you, say, the best raid forearms -- but then it turns out that the best-in-slot forearms are to be found in Fabled EoF, so you have to find time and people and go grind heroics to get that piece.

A lot of raiders don't like questing much, either. If it's necessary to do some amount of questing to get access to raid zones, they'll do it, but a lot of raiders hate that. They just want to show up on raid night, then enjoy the adrenaline and the fun you get from coordinating with 23 other people to figure out how to kill something that's hard to kill. Raiding is a viscerally different experience than grouping a heroic.

A decked-out raider's gear should be slightly better than the overland gear of the next expansion, and I'd want Fabled heroic gear to be better. And then Tier 1 raid gear should be better than Fabled heroic gear by at least a bit.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:59 AM   #48
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It will be easier for a non raider to be able to join a raid guild if they wanted to start. I know the pain of ditching a years worth of gear for a quest line but if it can inject fresh blood into the raiding community then not all is lost. With server merges a new xpack and gear that seems to benefit from class types in raid I hope that more guilds step up even if its just a few times a week.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:10 PM   #49
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Ummm this is beta, odds are there will be changes. Flying off the hook at the start of beta testing isnt going to solve anything, beta and test is to do exactly that.............. to test it and see how changes work. There will be more changes coming and odds are it will affect the gear as well.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:43 PM   #50
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Well, will see how if new mastercrafted jewelry will stay like this, because it pretty much offers all AoM instances procs/buffs - most as better versions.

I am all for gear of a new xpac being more powerful than current pieces, but as many posters said before: you should provide a curve, not an instant reset.
Not being able to infuse old gear will make the swap to new gear fast enough - there is no need to make T2 raiditems trivial for a questreward which wants you to collect 10 mushrooms.
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Old 10-29-2015, 04:49 AM   #51
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Top-end raid gear from the previous expansion should be equal in power to at least the solo instance gear, if you don't need to spend 40+ hours grinding AS and Heroic zones to get enough gear to break into the raids. I raid because I enjoy playing with twenty-three other people who I know, and being forced to grind an excessive amount of time in order to be able to even break into the raid zones takes all the fun out of the game for me until we end up breaking into raids.
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:59 AM   #52
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They could take the infusers out of the quest gear etc to make it to where its below the stats of raid gear from AOM to appease the whiners but then again you can just put infusers into it yourself and raise the stats yourself so whats the point.

So far what I have seen is the stats on quest/advanced solo gear are higher but mitigation is lower than AOM raid gear.

Mastercrafted gear is still trash in my opinion why would you wear this anyway? In AOM or even in this new expac it cant be reforged so it doesnt really matter what procs, stats it has on it.

Procs on all quested/advanced solo gear and heroic gear that I have seen so far are the same as TOV/AOM procs. I did see procs on weapons again and wands which was different.

Everyone complained when they put in the Freethinkers fabled zones same type of thing. DBG explained that the gear in those zones were for testing the new gear in this new expac. So now people are like OMG like they didnt forewarn you already.

How is it anyway that anyone can even complain about survivablity or dps or anything in raid zones in the new expac when the raid zones are not even open yet?

I used a beta buffed toon(with horrible yellow gear from AOM), I used my warden with raid gear from AOM and I used my conjurer with mostly AOM Freethinkers gear on to quests etc. I was able to do everything with no problem whatsoever. Most likely you can even skip the quests with last expac raid gear and go straight to doing advanced solos without much issue. I helped someone in an advanced solo with my warden who had nothing but AOM raid gear on and oh wow look not a single problem. I was not beta buffed in any of the zones that I saw to do them my stats did not move from before I zoned to after I zoned.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:03 PM   #53
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Okay so tanks MIGHT keep top raid AoM gear, but probably not.

New stat layouts are one thing, if part of the 'new gear' setup is to COMPLETELY outmode everything you ever had with the most common stuff, including the new preview gear, i'm sure the reaction would have been different.

People have beta tested raid zones. Not hard to look at the content and the 'beta buff' and a make a basic comparisons.

What? The problem isn't that AoM stuff isn't powerful enough to do solos, its that everything you trip over is a massive upgrade completely marginalizing the previous work done to earn the gear to a comical and unprecedented degree.

People used to mistakenly claim 'why do current content when the xpac is coming out soon' in past xpacs but now its completely true, there is no point in playing live for any upgrades outside of killing avatars and even that is borderline. The only things that might have a chance to survive are ethereals which had a terrible roll out from start to finish. From their terrible RNG drop rate to effects power impacting classes with huge gaps. Itemization is just a constant ever rolling disaster right now. Its entriely likely any GU after the xpac will do the same thing to ToT's itemization.

Exactly.

The 'pre infused' heroic gear should be about equal to current top end raid gear imo. Not current raid gear being dwarfed by literally the first piece of rewarded equipment you come across.

Except history has taught us deafening silence over complaints almost certainly means its not changing. No response = no change. I don't see Caith or anyone else posting a 'don't worry the quest and solo gear is gonna be nerfed a bit' or some such which would instantly calm the masses with a 1~ minute post.
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:28 PM   #54
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Personally I like the idea of the first items quested out doing the Best of the best raid gear as it should mean that the new best of the best raid gear is even more uber and Everyone from the every day 6 hours a day hard core person right down to the I only play 2 hours a week tops guy has to do ALL the content sig line > adv solo > heroic > raid

No short cuts for ANYONE
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:58 AM   #55
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Forcing raiders to do AS and Heroic is just as stupid as forcing crafters to Raid to get their housing items etc

Guys with better gear from this expansion will kill new AS faster than most others with less gear so yeah still there is short cuts.

Sadly its not about short cuts its about forcing players into doing AS when they want to raid and only raid. There are a lot that just log in raid then log out and have been doing it for years.
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:45 AM   #56
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Not if they do the sig line.. since the sig line gear is better then raid gear....
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:03 AM   #57
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Agreed, Neiloch. That is the part that worries me the most.

If things were going to change or things are still being balanced, all they had to do is just come in and say something. Or if they don't have any plans on changing things, they could just as well say so as well.
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:19 PM   #58
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Even worse could barely do the last one on my main ouch
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:28 PM   #59
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By the looks of it the differences between questline and high end raid gear is minimal, meaning raiders can skip the questline to go straight to adv solos, or most likely the easier heroics.

You shouldn't be able to go Raid -> Raid in expacs really. Heroic stuff should at least be a requirement at first.
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Old 10-30-2015, 03:45 PM   #60
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except they did do that already in EoF. and when the crafters complained about it, you raiders basically told them to get over and suck it up and raid.

well now we're telling you that same thing. suck it up get over it and quest for your new stuff.
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