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Old 10-25-2015, 06:12 PM   #1
Bloodguts

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I didn't know where else to put this, but since it affects raiding mostly i'll put it on this forum.

After finally getting my fully raid-geared Ranger from live copied over to Beta yesterday, I started doing the quests and saw that the gear we're getting from even the entry quest into Terrors of Thalumbra has a significant upgrade over the best gear we could have picked up during raids in AoM.

Now, as someone who enjoys raiding and gearing my character to it's fullest, I find it interesting that all those months I spent gearing out my character just to be much better prepared for this expansion was all for nothing. It was completely meaningless from my point of view.

If this mastercrafted/quested gear will remain being a big upgrade over the previous Raiding gear (including the Avatar gear), then what's the point of raiding continually after you have everything cleared in one expansion?

To me, the reason to continue raiding is to be able to gear our raid force, just to be better prepared for future encounters, however, if this is going to remain the method of introducing expansions, then I see no reason to continue paying for a monthly subscription after myself and the guild i'm in is able to finish all content.

So, my question to the Developers: other than seeing the content and being able to beat it once, what is your motivation for us to keep paying a monthly subscription and keep playing this game during content downtime, if all the gear we could probably get and farm for is meaningless when the next expansion rolls out?
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:40 AM   #2
Alarra

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What is the point of being near the top at the start of an expansion? It will only shorten the time you need to spend on the content.
I play, solo, heroic, raid, and tradeskill. There are many other faucets of the game that you can enjoy. Solo and Heroic Content is over faster than raid, should we have better than the base gear of the next expansion? In my opinion, no, it is part of the fun of re-gearing and re-learning your class with the class balancing stuff they do every time they release an expansion.
It happens every expansion, the new gear is always way higher than the last expansions highest tier.

If you run out of options other than to farm the SSDD, I advise you to try a new class out and try to gear that one out.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:49 AM   #3
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Actaully, solo quested gear being better then top end raid gear is not something that happens every time. In fact it NEVER happened until Withered Lands. And it hasn't even happened every expac since then.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:54 AM   #4
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My biggest concern is that with the inflation of the new stats and power of the gear it is going to make the zones that we have just been doing completely irrelevant.
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:01 AM   #5
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This is one of the problems with such huge gear reset/inflation. It makes the previous expac totally pointless. There's not even any reason to do the tougher zones because the stuff you do solo, not even advanced solo, completely trumps the gear.
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:52 AM   #6
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The only reason I can keep using my avatar charms from some of the hardest bosses from the previous expansion is because they have really powerful and unique procs. But the rest of the stats are just completely worthless when the first charm you get from entering Thalumbra has really powerful base stats.

Now, I enjoy doing all content, but still that doesn't answer my original question. If this is something we will continue to be seeing, which is having to regear your character everytime an expansion comes out, then what is there for raiders to look for to keep enjoying this game after every raid boss has been killed if the whole idea of gearing your raid for the next expansion is pointless.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:24 AM   #7
Alphonsus

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As if all this is something new. Last few xpac's were no different.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:46 AM   #8
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In AoM, the solo quested armor was not better then even bottom level raid gear, you had to get to at least heroic gear for that.
This expac the solo quested armor is better then top end raid gear. That is not the same.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:02 PM   #9
Eristan

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AoM raid weapon and avatar jewelery better than ToT quested/advance solo gear.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:31 PM   #10
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Could you link some the armor and quest jewelry some of us cannot get into Beta ATM
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:39 PM   #11
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Well, it does. Just look at ToV. Who does that anymore?

But I will add, I like to think that once I and other folks get some better gear, we will be able to go back to some AoM zones that we were previously undergeared for and have some fun knocking them out...... Wait a minute.. Who am I kidding? I said the same thing about ToV zones and never ever looked back. As a matter of fact, I would venture to say that ToV has not had any groups run heroics since the introduction of AoM. That is unless they were just hell bent on completing shiny quests.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:57 PM   #12
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except for 2 pieces avatar jewelry is pretty useless
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:20 PM   #13
Bloodguts

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So back to my original question then, what kind of motivation or reason do developers have in store for myself and for a guild like the one i'm in when all content for an expansion is cleared? Why keep paying a subscription if everything we could possibly do is pointless? We could just wait until the expansion comes out and then pay for a subscription again.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:24 PM   #14
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Quest and adv solo armor have less mit, and no avoid stats. The difference between raid t1/t2 jewelry in stats, is.. something (and with the infusion, the difference in cb/pot is relevant).The big difference are on the proc. Now we have nice proc even in adv solo and named contested.
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:11 PM   #15
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Yeah. I noticed the less mitigation, but for a scout/priest/mage that stat is mostly there as an adornment. Everything else is a noticeable upgrade.

Which is fine. getting an upgrade is always awesome with me. I just wish raid gear lasted a lot longer than quested gear in this expansion. But by this logic i could easily just quit the game after all ToT raiding content gets cleared by my guild because the next expansion will have better gear rewards from doing the starting quests, which is actually what i'm worried about if the intention of the developers is to keep players playing this game.
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:23 PM   #16
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The whole thing is pointless... it's a game, its entertainment. Once you clear all the raid zones and have all the gear you want, sure you can take a break and come back with the next expansion, if it no longer provides you with entertainment.

New expansion gear always trumps former expansion raid gear, with the exception of a few pieces. We rehash this whine with every new expansion... like clockwork. I replaced most of my purple raid gear from TOV with ungemmed heroic gear in AOM. I replaced most of my end game raiding jewelry from TOV with AOM quest jewelry (resists).

Don't you want a new challenge? Or are you just mad that all your precious end game gear won't be worth jacksplat in three weeks? I'm ready for the new challenge. I'll be muting my AOM raid gear and moving on. At least I'll have something to spend my stockpiles of DKP on again.
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:57 PM   #17
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New expansion obviously will trump former expac gear. But new low tier gear that takes comparatively zero skill / effort to obtain - should not (and in the past frequently has not) - trump ALL top end gear from the past expac.

For example - lots of ToV gear was perfectly usable to run AoM heroics and eventually, slowly, got upgraded. Certain pieces (like jewelry due to resists) got upgraded faster, but they rest took some time before getting replaced. Replacing hard-earned top end items with the first piece of junk that you get in the new expac is NOT good progression, it's just replacement for the sake of replacement.

I fully agree that 90% of BiS gear from the current expac should be replaced by top end heroic gear in the next expac. But replacing it earlier is an insult to those that worked to get it and ultimately discouraging for future expacs. One of EQ2's major issues that half hte population "tunes out" of the expac with about 4-5 months left before the next one - making all the stuff you earn during this time largely irrelevant contributes to that.

To answer your question - yes, i want a new challenge. Which is why i am saying that it should be the challenging stuff that replaces top end gear.
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:57 PM   #18
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the 2nd question would be, would you buy an expansion if the gear was the same as you have now and wasn't better?
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:58 PM   #19
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This exactly.
Of course new gear will replace old gear. But the worst solo quest gear shouldn't better then top tier raid gear from the previous expac.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:07 PM   #20
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I like it. Full gear resets give reasons for people to do stuff again.

If raiders didn't have to upgrade their gear until new raids, nobody would touch heroics.

If it is anything like AoM, you'll still be able to use your current Raid Gear into entry level raids with a few adjustments (AoM was buy some HC/MC Jewelery for resists and keep armour).
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:37 PM   #21
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Not really suprising ... the fabled raid zone gave us a sneak peak at new expac armor stats ... Forearms had twice the stamina and max health over the purple raid forearms as an example for tanks
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:38 PM   #22
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And no avoid/riposte stats.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:40 PM   #23
Bloodguts

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Our ToV raid gear lasted deep into AoM. If you repalced your purple raid gear from ToV with ungemmed heroic gear, you definetely were doing it wrong UNLESS you didn't have 2/2 ToV Raid gear.

To prove my point here is the item path from the previous expansion:

[IMG]

Here's a comparison between top-tier pants vs. the first quested pants you get in ToT.

[IMG]

You can say how the AoM Raid 2 are better because they have WDB and the new pants don't have them, but it really doesn't matter much because of the 300 WDB cap and because all the new expansion pants will always have the same set of stats as per stated by Caith when Fabled EoF was released on live.

But to see the big increase in Agility, Stamina, Potency, Crit Bonus and DPS leaves those Tier 2 AoM pants in the dust.

Here's a quick comparison of a Solo reward vs. a reward from a 4x raid boss in the last expansion that's considered to be deep end-game.

[IMG]

The solo version is such a massive upgrade over the previous 4x Avatar one. Not only the stats are a big increase all-around, but even the proc is a big increase as well. The damage on the proc is double the one from the Avatar, and jumps 1 second faster than the Avatar one as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to reinstate for the people who keep misunderstanding me, I'm all for going into a new expansion and doing new content and beating new bosses and seeing new items to gear my character in. The problem i'm seeing in this is that this itemization system we're seeing now with the release of this expansion makes all the work from previous expansion be totally and utterly meaningless. There was no point in farming Avatars or doing the raid zones over and over again to farm gear and be prepared for the expansion. And if this is the direction we're going to continue in, then by the next expansion (if there is going to be one) there will be no point into farming end-game gear. We could easily beat the end-game content and call it quits until the next expansion comes out and save ourselves a couple bucks by not having to pay subscription in that downtime between expansions.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:44 PM   #24
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I don't see how replacing your top end raid gear with quest gear is an "insult". It's simply progression into a new expac. The only way it can be "insulting" to you is if it's just about not wanting to look a noob in your quest gear. You want to go from purple gemmed raid gear to purple gemmed raid gear so you can continue to look uber when people inspect you....

If you're feeling "insulted" because everything you've done in the game in the last few months is irrelevant... well, welcome to gaming. Everything I did in Ultima Online back in 2003 is irrelevant now. You should be happy that EQ2 has a new expansion, some semblance of hope for a future, and new challenges to face.

Instead of feeling insulted, feel bad for the poor schmuck in auction the other day who spent 30K plat on a red EM raid chest piece. Now HE should feel insulted, he just spent 30K plat on a three week rental. But then again, I don't think he knew enough to be insulted...
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:44 PM   #25
Bloodguts

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Completely agree with this statement.

I like the new challenges, i just don't want the previous challenges i worked hard to achieve be meaningless.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:50 PM   #26
Bloodguts

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that's just a flawed comparison. you can't compare something you did 12 years ago to be relevant now. the only comparisons we can truly make is recent past vs. the present.

And yeah, i feel bad for these people wanting to gear themselves currently in AoM because they're just wasting time and money. But that's the thing, we shouldn't feel bad for these people, not because they want to better themselves, but because the system is flawed to a degree where previous RECENT accomplishments mean |nothing| going into this expansion.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:51 PM   #27
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I get the feeling that the solo quest rewards (and mastercrafted) are the results of effects being randomly applied to templated items and then those items randomly assigned to stuff (for testing purposes?).

If it was intended, then it really does not make much sense (especially what effects were applied where, e.g. raid effects on solo or heroic jewellry). But I won't be too concerned until we get closer to launch (at this point during AoM we didn't even have any itemisation in place).
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:56 PM   #28
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That just tips the balance completely over.

If you have a complete gear reset going into every expansion, people would do heroics and raids now until finished and leave the game until more content gets released.

If you allow people to carry over something they fought for and accomplished in the previous expansion, they might skip some heroics, but they will continue playing this game all throughout the lifetime of the expansion.

So what do you prefer as a developer?

Skipping some content but having meaning to end-game content for the lifetime of the expansion
VS.
Having everyone play together during the first half of the expansion, but lose half the playerbase during the second half because nothing to keep us motivated into playing.
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:58 PM   #29
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I can only hope so that is the case. We had the same issue during Altar of Malice beta, the same points were brought up and the developers responded that they were going to look into balancing all tiers of gear.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:00 PM   #30
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There always seems to be some mechanic of every expansion that requires the exchange of gear. Just recently in ToV it was crit mit. AoM was resist and mitigation. ToT, along with just having better stats generally, is making this move with infusable gear. My raid geared toon has T1/T2 in all slots and none of this is infusable.

Also, I think I remember when the EoF fabled zones came out, didnt they say that they were changing armor stats to even out and that those would be samples of what ToT gear would be. I do believe that even the adv solo EoF fabled forarms are better by far than purple raid forarms.
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