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Old 07-06-2012, 03:54 AM   #1
Tigerr

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I took a look at some of the drunder items... Couple of them look somewhat decent but, I thought you guys said that there will be no removal of red slots. Some of the items that i've seen have that HORRIBLE proc on them, missing red slots... Some of the items are the 2 handed priest weapon (more so, the cloaks/belts) for example, they have 3 white slots, just like the crappy EM skyshrine items have. With the old drunder stuff, I was pretty happy ( even though it wasnt up to par) because I can use the redslots for whatever Warrunes I want. With this update, there would be NO way to get the old stuff for the red slots, yet you removed the redslots on the new stuff.. Can any dev chime in and explain?. The point for the re-itemization is to have upgraded stats, not have pointless procs on stuff that used to have red slots. The only thing I see that still has red slots are the charms. I might have not seen ALL of the items but, based on the 4 belts + couple 2 handers that I have seen, they are all missing red slots and have that same idiotic proc on it... The proc that completely baffles me is the 5k heal, its pointless and really, doesn't do ANYTHING. I really hope that this is not the finished product, you guys promised that the red slots will STAY on the gear. 

Like I mentioned earlier, there is no way to go back after the update to get the old stuff for the red slots, meaning we STILL need to keep the old stuff and lose out on stats just so we can keep our warrunes?. I was excited about the change when I heard red slots will be kept, I can understand the weapons ( even still, needs atleast 1 red slot) but, the belts?... Why remove the redslot from the belts. Please take a look at this, and dont respond saying that you guys changed your mind, these procs are the same RANDOM_01 procs on all the SS gear.

Thanks to Jez for images to use. 

The cloaks as well, do not have a redslot... Instead there is a IDIOTIC "Cogent IV" proc that doesn't even stack with anything like it. The Abil mod proc is not enough to warrant the removal of the red slot. Reason people are excited about this reitemization is because we get to keep the red slots and adorn it the way WE see fit, not have it loaded with generic procs that are completely useless. Please respond to the issue, and yes, you did say you are going to KEEP the redslots, don't say that was a mistake considering there is going to be NOTHING to get that has redslots as those items will not exist anymore.

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Old 07-06-2012, 04:24 AM   #2
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If I'm not mistaken they said the war runes would remain (on the loot table?). That does not imply that the new itemization would have a place to put  them!  Just saying, they have made no secret of the fact that they did not like how the war rune system turned out, they said that last fan faire in fact.  Its pretty clear they are trying to phase it out....

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Old 07-06-2012, 04:33 AM   #3
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Nah, they mentioned that the items ( slots) that had red slots, will be upgraded WITH their red slots still intact. No reason to have these idiotic procs on our gear. They already stated that the warrune SLOTS will stay on the gear that had it before. The 2 handers I understand but, really need a dev to comment. I really really hope that this is NOT the finished product and just a quick addon to test with. Alot of people would be upset.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:59 AM   #4
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If HM drunder gear is keeping its red slots then PoW gear will need red slots plain and simple...there is alot of useless freaking procs on PoW gear its not even funny. It will be HM drunder > PoW gear.

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Old 07-06-2012, 05:15 AM   #5
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Is this really HM Drunder stuff? As I remember EM Drunder items did not have red slots either.

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Old 07-06-2012, 05:17 AM   #6
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Cyrdemac wrote:

Is this really HM Drunder stuff? As I remember EM Drunder items did not have red slots either.

EM and HM drunder items had red slots.

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Old 07-06-2012, 05:20 AM   #7
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yeah, just checked. Had the older Kael Drakkel stuff in mind, where EM items did not have red slots.

But back to topic: those items look horrible. I agree with that useless proc being, well..useless..and the red slot is a MUST on these items tbh.

Also I do NOT understand the logic in replacing the loot table and keep the old items in game. Compared to sky EM items, old Drunder HM stuff -which was much harder to get- is is inferior to Sky EM. So its only logical to improve it, but why not replace the old items with new ones?

Keeping hard earned crappy items from the same expansion in-game without improving them is just wrong.

I feel forced to grind those mobs AGAIN to get the same stuff I already have, just improved - as it had to be done BEFORE skyshrine went live!. And do we have the same stupid distribution like on skyshrine start where only 2 classes and billions of brawlers got their loot?

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Old 07-06-2012, 06:08 AM   #8
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Some of the red war runes are very very useful for POW Named, we either need the better procs duplicated on items not just these generic ones or red slots to stay.

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Old 07-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #9
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I mean, it is possible that these items are NOT the final product considering they did say that items WILL keep their red slots if they had them. Like someone mentioned, if there are no redslots in drunder HM, the only redslots we can use are the ones from kael HM, which is COMPLETELY outdated. The point of this "revamp" is to keep it updated but at the same time, keep the redslots cause well, thats what people wanted instead of these useless procs. That was part of the reason why people wanted it done. Dev, please comment, assure us that these generic procs will not stay and you will go through with what you said before about leaving the redslots on cloaks/belts. I still use my drunder HM cloak + belt from time to time for the war rune slots. If this is done the way it is, there will be no way for new/old people to get gear that doesnt suck all the way yet has red slots.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:19 PM   #10
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Without a place to put Blinding light/velium dominion on for Eriak in Plane of War many of these items won't be used for that boss vs the old drunder hm items. I was really looking forward to having the likes of benefaction without using the old Aranae charm/Gregor belt I have with poor stats as well, this has killed a little bit of hope in me. So how does one get the links to this stuff without killing it all on test?
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:22 PM   #11
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Thats what i'm saying, before we used the old HM drunder stuff for the red slots cause it wasn't that bad.. Now if they take it out of the game and put this garbage in there, there really is NO point in doing drunder, as is it only a 1 CB upgrade with some set bonus ( not saying its not enough)... I'm just saying that the reason people were excited was due to the red slots that SOE promised they are going to keep. Please follow through Devs.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:41 PM   #12
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Perhaps they just decided to take red slots out of the game and put all the war rune choices on the traits window SMILEY

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Old 07-07-2012, 02:32 AM   #13
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Tigerr wrote:

I took a look at some of the drunder items... Couple of them look somewhat decent but, I thought you guys said that there will be no removal of red slots. Some of the items that i've seen have that HORRIBLE proc on them, missing red slots... Some of the items are the 2 handed priest weapon (more so, the cloaks/belts) for example, they have 3 white slots, just like the crappy EM skyshrine items have. With the old drunder stuff, I was pretty happy ( even though it wasnt up to par) because I can use the redslots for whatever Warrunes I want. With this update, there would be NO way to get the old stuff for the red slots, yet you removed the redslots on the new stuff.. Can any dev chime in and explain?. The point for the re-itemization is to have upgraded stats, not have pointless procs on stuff that used to have red slots. The only thing I see that still has red slots are the charms. I might have not seen ALL of the items but, based on the 4 belts + couple 2 handers that I have seen, they are all missing red slots and have that same idiotic proc on it... The proc that completely baffles me is the 5k heal, its pointless and really, doesn't do ANYTHING. I really hope that this is not the finished product, you guys promised that the red slots will STAY on the gear. 

Like I mentioned earlier, there is no way to go back after the update to get the old stuff for the red slots, meaning we STILL need to keep the old stuff and lose out on stats just so we can keep our warrunes?. I was excited about the change when I heard red slots will be kept, I can understand the weapons ( even still, needs atleast 1 red slot) but, the belts?... Why remove the redslot from the belts. Please take a look at this, and dont respond saying that you guys changed your mind, these procs are the same RANDOM_01 procs on all the SS gear.

Thanks to Jez for images to use. 

The cloaks as well, do not have a redslot... Instead there is a IDIOTIC "Cogent IV" proc that doesn't even stack with anything like it. The Abil mod proc is not enough to warrant the removal of the red slot. Reason people are excited about this reitemization is because we get to keep the red slots and adorn it the way WE see fit, not have it loaded with generic procs that are completely useless. Please respond to the issue, and yes, you did say you are going to KEEP the redslots, don't say that was a mistake considering there is going to be NOTHING to get that has redslots as those items will not exist anymore.

 Looks like they just changed the look tables. All my HM drunder loot from befor is still the same as it was.

If there going to change the loot in HM drunder than they just update the loot we have.

And red adorns! Because every 1 knows that SoE has no clue what classes need what!

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:01 AM   #14
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Kander wrote 06/14/2012

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...48�

Sullon's Spire [Challenge], Tallon's Stronghold [Challenge] and Vallon's Tower [Challenge] Raids will have new itemization with GU 64. Item scope will be boosted to be in between Skyshrine normal mode raids and challenge mode raids. Yes, I said new. Current Drunder HM items will not be upgraded. Normal Drunder items will not be changed/upgraded. War Runes will stay. There will just be new armor, accessories and weapons etc.

and here the thing about red slots:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518148

Kander wrote 6/15/2012

To answer a few questions:

GU 64 is July.

Items that had red slots will keep them.

Itemization will be very similar to Skyshrine itemization.

Mythical weapons will not be replaced. They will still drop. Drop rate will be increased.

The re-itemization is partly to address the issues with Drunder previously being scout and fighter heavy. Along with a few other things. There are a lot of other changes that will be in conjunction with this coming in GU 64. Unfortunately, I cannot give specifics until we announce them.

As you can see, it was already announced as a completly new loot table. And this new loot exists beside the old one, wich is inferior in stats but better because of the red slots for runes on weapons, charms, cloak, secondary, bow-slot and belt.

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Old 07-07-2012, 11:38 AM   #15
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I agree that if you give the new Drunder stuff the red slots then you'd have to include them on SS/PoW stuffs too otherwise they will blow the balance that they're trying to achieve between the three areas. 

Some of the new procs are definitely garbage and should be addressed.  Discombobulate comes to mind...the threat drop wouldn't take you from 99 to 98 on the hate meter. 

What I'd like to see as far as war runes go is to make them be like temporary adorns.  If you loot/repurchase a war rune you get a 20 charge temp adorn that lasts for 30 mins.  This would give people flexibility of using the war rune for specific fights without having a pile of similar gear in your bags with each of those runes on there. 

Or let people put them on armor.  Would be more interesting decision between 3 cb and strength thru sacrifice, pure viciousness, etc.  Right now you have 3cb/2cb in every red/yellow slot for scouts.  More gear choices is better than fewer gear choices assuming none of the choices are just broken or terrible to begin with.

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Old 07-07-2012, 11:43 AM   #16
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If you're not going to give us red slots you at least need to represent the war runes as procs that people were using on these items. These would include but are not limited to: Blinding light, Velium dominion, Benefaction, Split Second Redemption, Tactical Advantage, Relentless will, Profane Madness, Storm essence, Descent of Kael, Evaded Blade, Rime Strike, Glacial Deflection, Manalink. The only problem this would create would be these items being better than Plane of War gear, but this is only due to how vital these procs are at times and so they should be included somehow.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:15 PM   #17
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Chronus1 wrote:

If you're not going to give us red slots you at least need to represent the war runes as procs that people were using on these items. These would include but are not limited to: Blinding light, Velium dominion, Benefaction, Split Second Redemption, Tactical Advantage, Relentless will, Profane Madness, Storm essence, Descent of Kael, Evaded Blade, Rime Strike, Glacial Deflection, Manalink. The only problem this would create would be these items being better than Plane of War gear, but this is only due to how vital these procs are at times and so they should be included somehow.

Some of those, like Blinding Light, is only useful on a few mobs.  If that's the only proc on an item it's just gonna be a piece that you would swap in for big fear fights. Then people will be upset that they got an item with a proc that is useless to them.

Rime Strike is basically on Focused Destruction IV proc with abil mod swapped in for the damage proc.

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Old 07-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #18
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Don't forget about Greater Fervor and Steadfast Resolve - I use both a great deal of the time since most raid encounters include Stifle ae's.  As a druid solo healing, we don't have the luxury of steadfast, so we need all the anti-stifle procs/breaks we can get.  A lot of ae's have to have the group cure timed and if you get stifled it can tick and kill your group before you can cast a stifle breaker and your group cure.

Also,  they should include a chance to resist Stun & Stifle to the new "Focus: Stalwart" character trait.

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Old 07-07-2012, 02:54 PM   #19
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You can add Restorative Counter IV and Soothing Breeze III to the list of worthless procs. They were 1% and < 1% of my heals respectively. Restorative Counter did -slightly- better, with it's totally healing in the zone being equal to two casts of one of my standard heals, but Soothing Breeze didn't even do that much.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:22 PM   #20
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I really doubt that the devs just said "oh we changed our mind, we aren't going to put red slots on the belts + cloaks so that the only gear with red slots people can get is from HM kael" They know it would completely screw alot of things up... 1 CB and couple of stats that is on these new items are really not that GREAT in comparison to SS EMx4 thats why they said they will leave the red slots in with the items that already had them. If no red slots are added, it is probably a waste of a revamp considering the gear is only slightly better and there would be no way to go back and get the old gear that people use now for the red slots. I still use HM drunder stuff for the red slots ( since they promised, I hope they will keep it, one of the reasons people were excited for revamp). There will be no way to use any warrunes because all of the stuff with red slots besides Drunder HM is GARBAGE. If they arent going to keep their promise, i'd rather have the old loot table than the generic stuff they popped out with these horrible procs that don't even make sense.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:24 PM   #21
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Also, I'm guessing since the charms DO have red slots ( revamped gear) some of this gear isint updated yet. I really hope this is not the final product. I really doubt they would include red slots on charms and not include it on belts + cloaks. Devs, please get those red slots on there.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:54 PM   #22
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One way to balance it would be to only have red slots on charms and only from HM SS, HM Drunder and POW gear

If they really want red slots on HM Drunder charms only that will make POW charms worthless

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Old 07-08-2012, 02:37 AM   #23
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yeah, i'm pretty sure they are going to boost PoW stuff up to make it inline with the drunder stuff.. Kander promised red slots stay, we can only hope they do this the right way this time... Drunder/PoW loot would be balanced. SS is idiot easy for the gear you get. No reason anything in SS deserves redslots like drunder stuff.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:50 PM   #24
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Twyxx wrote:

I agree that if you give the new Drunder stuff the red slots then you'd have to include them on SS/PoW stuffs too otherwise they will blow the balance that they're trying to achieve between the three areas. 

Some of the new procs are definitely garbage and should be addressed.  Discombobulate comes to mind...the threat drop wouldn't take you from 99 to 98 on the hate meter. 

What I'd like to see as far as war runes go is to make them be like temporary adorns.  If you loot/repurchase a war rune you get a 20 charge temp adorn that lasts for 30 mins.  This would give people flexibility of using the war rune for specific fights without having a pile of similar gear in your bags with each of those runes on there. 

Or let people put them on armor.  Would be more interesting decision between 3 cb and strength thru sacrifice, pure viciousness, etc.  Right now you have 3cb/2cb in every red/yellow slot for scouts.  More gear choices is better than fewer gear choices assuming none of the choices are just broken or terrible to begin with.

This post is full of a couple of the best ideas on Red Slot adorning I've seen in a long while. READ THIS DEVS

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Old 07-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #25
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I like the fact that using red slots allows me to mix up my AA spec so I'm still running some HM Drunder gear on progression fights.

Notably, when solo healing the mage group, I don't take PI because I run enough ward procs to compensate. I don't take Serenity because I can run Greater Fervor and Steadfast Resolve.

Take away red slots and we're back to cookie cutter builds and bleh-ness.

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Old 07-09-2012, 12:41 AM   #26
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Just wanted to add to this thread.

Devs, PLEASE, if you don't want to waste drunder, if you want/need some breathing room and content for people to burn through while you work on additions for later in the year.... put the red runes back on waist/weapons/charms, etc

Who are we kidding here... EZ skyshrine mobs are cake.  Sure you need dps and healers have to be on their toes.  There is one or two mobs on the 3rd floor that take something extra... but by an large the upgrades from em drunder to em Skyshrine are HUGE. (and the difficulty from EM drunder to EM skysrhine is actually a step down IMO)

Now we are supposed to be heading back to HM drunder to mobs that are FAR more difficult than anything in EM skyshrine.  Sure we have supercharged dps and way more health now, but the most of the drunder fights are far more technical.  You need to worry about cures, and curses and jousts and mem wipes, health blances, ports, and clickys.  With the buffed stats fights are shorter but still nothing is tank and spank like Skysrhine EM.  Not to mention we are back to mobs healing < 45% in drunder which is a joy (and odd considering challenge (HM) Skyshrine do not)

Thats cool, I mean its further in progression, so harder fights in drunder.  But the increase in difficulty for just .6 cb/pot and 8 base stats is crap. 

As a troub my 'special' red rune slots (cloak/waist/charms/etc) are priceless.  Weapons are the same for many other classes as well.

Why not do in skyshrine what you did with cloaks in dov originally.  EM = no red rune, HM = 1 red rune

Keeping a red rune on charms/cloak/waist/etc are worth the drunder difficultly increase, otherwise, most will try it and then skip it after a few angry forum posts and crys for nerfing the encounters.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:28 AM   #27
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People are overlooking the fact that skyshrine procs raid or otherwise and the "new" drunder redux with skyshrine procs DO NOT GET AFFECTED IN ANY WAY VIA BLESSINGS (WHICH IS NOW GARBAGE) ANCESTRY, LUCK OF THE DIRGE, i.e. proc rates are locked at the stellar 2 times per min for most of which are garbage procs.

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Old 07-09-2012, 07:49 AM   #28
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If they wanted us to drop war runes, they should have included similiar or better procs of the utility runes people use.  I do feel that they need to come up with better procs instead of just regurgitating the same procs we've had for years, but where are the control effect procs and other useful things. Before the proc "revamp" in PoW, I recall there being an immunity proc on gear but that seems to have completely disappeared now.  And these "effects" that permanently boost a stat by 50 and cb/pot by some small amount, I don't even understand.  Why not just add these things to the base of the gear and give an actual proc?  Make gear have varying stats that would make you debate using one over the other.  Gear is just the heart of a game, and when you don't spend any resources getting it right, you end up with disinteresting populace that doesn't want to put in effort for harder fights.

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Old 07-09-2012, 09:55 AM   #29
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With very few exceptions most of skyshrine procs are garbage little in the way of utility or actual damage type procs like we had with the war runes...and I must agree if they were going in the direction of no longer giving red slots on gear to adorn via faction/war rune adorns fine....but to not even attempt to try and reproduce any of the war rune procs (of which there are a host of useful adorns there) feels somewhat lazy.

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Old 07-09-2012, 02:52 PM   #30
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I'm really hoping that the flavor of some of these procs and effects changes and that these are just placeholders...

The Skyshrine procs are mostly generic, if anything.  I would expect the HM Drunder stuff to have a mix of the effects that people actually desired on war runes (some of them are still kept on swap-in gear).  For example, anti-fear/stifle/stun, deathless devotion, split-second redemption, storm essence, power procs... A lot of these effects have been around in some capacity since the SoH/Avatar days.  If red slots are not coming back at all, at least try to utilize all of the effects that were given by them so that there is a good mix of gear and effects to choose from.

As it stands, these items are basically small stat increases with the same cookie cutter procs that are sprinkled throughout the Skyshrine content.  

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