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Old 05-28-2010, 03:09 AM   #1
Amyas

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Does any thing in the game do this for ranger like in eq1? I love archer class's but hate having to worry about arrows. If not I hope SoE would consider adding a AA like this for eq2.

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Old 05-28-2010, 03:18 AM   #2
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While it doesn't exist, it's been proposed several times - but like most Ranger feedback, shot down or ignored.

Don't expect to see this.

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Old 05-28-2010, 06:31 AM   #3
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>_< I was hoping since EQ2 was down on subs they would listin.
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:54 AM   #4
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The big problem to an endless quiver that I see is that if implemented it hits tradeskillers hard, right now if in a pinch you can at least make some makeshift arrows.

For me it would be just another RP/real world feature that goes from the game if they did remove the need for arrows, so I'm happy to load up (with a ridiculous number of arrows SMILEY ) on my Ranger.

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Old 05-28-2010, 09:38 AM   #5
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Solution : Level a woodworker SMILEY

My Ranger just dinged 90 WW the other night SMILEY arrow heaven.

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Old 05-28-2010, 09:41 AM   #6
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MurFalad wrote:

The big problem to an endless quiver that I see is that if implemented it hits tradeskillers hard, right now if in a pinch you can at least make some makeshift arrows.

For me it would be just another RP/real world feature that goes from the game if they did remove the need for arrows, so I'm happy to load up (with a ridiculous number of arrows ) on my Ranger.

Do you even play a ranger?

I am just curious, because makeshift arrows does not make arrows anymore.  It was changed to a temporary proc off ranged attacks at the beginning of Sentinel's Fate.  It was a nice improvement to a combat art that had been made useless several years ago. 

At level 90 with the enervated/mythical and aa points in arrow tear I can get by with around 200 arrows an hour.  This is a huge improvement over the half a quiver I used to use in that time, but still accounts for a nice chunk of change each day in arrows.  I do not think that one class should be supporting a tradeskill by itself.  Give woodworkers another way to make money, and give rangers a break.

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Old 05-28-2010, 12:35 PM   #7
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This has been bad design since the beginning.  No other class has to worry or spend as much money on reagents as Rangers do.  If a class has to spend more than any other just to operate then it should be the top of the DPS parse.

(And no, I don't play a ranger and have never had one)

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Old 05-28-2010, 02:05 PM   #8
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while we are at it should make endless posion so swash brigs and asassins dont need to buy them.

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Old 05-28-2010, 02:25 PM   #9
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lollipop wrote:

while we are at it should make endless posion so swash brigs and asassins dont need to buy them.

Oh look, it's a strawman argument that assumes Rangers don't go through poisons. I'll play too!

Let's make every single melee autoattack randomly subtract 8-20 silver from your bag to cover the costs of the more extensive damage your weapon takes during combat!

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Old 05-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #10
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Amyas wrote:

>_< I was hoping since EQ2 was down on subs they would listin.

They have completely ignored all 5 threads on the fury/mystic ninja nerf too SMILEY

So they obviously don't care about even fixing issues they have created recently.

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Old 05-28-2010, 03:43 PM   #11
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lollipop wrote:

while we are at it should make endless posion so swash brigs and asassins dont need to buy them.

/sigh

Dont be stupid please. This has nothing to do with poisons. Rangers has to buy poisions too you know right? But furthermore we have to buy arrows. And on top up that to get best dps we need special raid crafted arrows, that comes from raid mobs, or TS instances, which is even more lame.

And btw, there would still be a market for arrows. Dont forget that bards, assassin, and fighters in most cases uses bows, and still will be in need of arrows. Ofc, it will not be as big. But it is still stupid that rangers are the only class getting milked from money because they have to keep some woodworkers income alive.

Rangers got way bigger problems that this tho.

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Old 05-28-2010, 03:45 PM   #12
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lollipop wrote:

while we are at it should make endless posion so swash brigs and asassins dont need to buy them.

Stop trolling.  This isn't even comparable to the arrow cost for rangers.  Both predator and both rogue classes have similar poison costs in the end.  This isn't asked for because it hits all classes roughly about the same. 

The reason they won't give rangers endless quiver has been stated before previously anyways, woodworkers go up in arms over killing their ability to make any coin as a tradeskill class.  I have my own woodworker, I can make my own arrows, though sometimes I may not have time to log it in to restock arrows for my ranger.

When they went back and decided that when SF released that they would allow ammo within 20 levels of the bow to be used without hurting your dps, as opposed to the 10 level range during RoK and TSO, woodworkers got ticked off thinking that this decision would kill their ability to make a profit because rangers could use free arrows summoned by either of the Deathtoll bows. 

I can understand the cost of poisons, since for the MC poisons the dust costs more to acquire either by just getting the rares to make experts to obtain it, or buying it off the broker, but again this gets passed on to all classes that use poisons, and even MC potions.  You can't tell me however, convince me that woodworkers charging 20g per 100 arrows is a fair price.  I can easily go through 100-200 arrows per instance.  More if I'm soloing, even more if I'm raiding.  Per combine, if I were to buy all my materials for arrows on the broker, counting fuel costs it would probably cost 5-6g.  So most woodworkers are making at least 3x over the cost of what it takes to make arrows.  What other class has that same expense, at the same rate.

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Old 05-28-2010, 03:59 PM   #13
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Endless quiver was one of the AA's they considered the most overpowered in the original EQ game.  When AA's started there were numerous questions about this - it was stated then (and I haven't heard anything changed) that there would NEVER be Endless Quiver in EQ2.  Search around a bit in the Ranger forums...it's been asked for and denied over and over SMILEY

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Old 05-28-2010, 05:31 PM   #14
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Helrazor wrote:

Endless quiver was one of the AA's they considered the most overpowered in the original EQ game.  When AA's started there were numerous questions about this - it was stated then (and I haven't heard anything changed) that there would NEVER be Endless Quiver in EQ2.  Search around a bit in the Ranger forums...it's been asked for and denied over and over

Yes, and there will NEVER be an eq2 store that charges real money for ingame items...

There will NEVER be a way to change your race...

Precedence.

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Old 05-29-2010, 05:44 AM   #15
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Helrazor wrote:

Endless quiver was one of the AA's they considered the most overpowered in the original EQ game.  When AA's started there were numerous questions about this - it was stated then (and I haven't heard anything changed) that there would NEVER be Endless Quiver in EQ2.  Search around a bit in the Ranger forums...it's been asked for and denied over and over

One of the bigger issues for Endless quiver in EQ1 was what went into making the arrows that the rangers used.  I stopped playing EQ1 back in 2006, but I still recall most rangers having at least 4 - 5 distinct arrows they kept in their quiver to change whichever one should be applied.  I know how many arrows my rogue could go through on raids when we were jousting out in EQ1, or other raids when we just weren't allowed to joust in due to resists for certain fights, and that was just with generally mage summoned arrows or maybe some basic crafted arrows.  The cost to keep supplied on the better arrows that rangers used would probably be much higher to even the inflated cost of arrows that we spend in EQ2. 

Before endless quiver a lot of my ranger friends tended to keep their tolan's bracer around in case they needed to summon arrows, but at that point except when using their trueshot discipline most rangers tended to melee more then they used their bow.

Will this happen, sadly, no you're probably right.  Should it happen? Something along the lines should, as others have said, no other class has to pay 20s per auto attack.  While they did throw us a bone a few years back keeping arrows from being consumed by range CA's, it's still not enough considering how many arrows a ranger can go through soloing, in instances, and especially raiding.

Before anyone falls back on the concept that this potentially could kill the woodworker market for arrows, woodworkers still sell a significant amount of arrows to non rangers, so while it may cut their profits some, they'll still find people they can price gouge with  their current prices.

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Old 05-29-2010, 07:07 AM   #16
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Solution: Let WWs craft twice as many arrows per combine.

Will cause arrows to be cheaper and reduce grind for WWs.

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Old 05-29-2010, 07:46 AM   #17
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Aldhissla wrote:

Solution: Let WWs craft twice as many arrows per combine.

Will cause arrows to be cheaper and reduce grind for WWs.

This has an even less likely chance of happening then Endless quiver, cause provisioners and alchemists would throw a fit unless they somehow got included.

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Old 05-29-2010, 08:32 AM   #18
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Really guys, the price of arrows on the broker (unless you want lower level ones) is so cheap it effectively costs me more to make my own than to just buy them (unless they've all run out and someone has put some on at a rediculous price).

I have a woodworker who can make arrows for me and I never bother making my own arrows.

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Old 05-29-2010, 08:58 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

Aldhissla wrote:

Solution: Let WWs craft twice as many arrows per combine.

Will cause arrows to be cheaper and reduce grind for WWs.

This has an even less likely chance of happening then Endless quiver, cause provisioners and alchemists would throw a fit unless they somehow got included.

And how do they even have a say in this?

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Old 05-29-2010, 09:27 AM   #20
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Sure, when every other dps class is charged 10-20s per auto-attack or spell (for the casters), often ending up with 1-2p per evening before including the cost of poisons that other preds and rogues share (no biggie on that, really,) depending on how much fighting occurs, then it'll be all nice and even.  Don't want to spend the cash?  Then, level a crafter.  Then, every other dps class gets to spend X amount of time crafting per auto-attack or spell cast.

How about whetstones that are mandatory consumables for each melee auto-attack.  No whetstones?  Then no auto-attack, since that's how it works for ranged auto-attack.  And runes that are mandatory consumables for each spell cast... Oh, wait, there's no chance in hell that this will happen.  Not to mention, the assassins and sorcs are capable of producing more dps for free than that of a ranger paying a couple plat a night for their damage...if they know how to play their class.

BTW, I have T9 woodworker (actually, she gained her last 3 levels alone from grinding T9 arrows for the ranger), and I see nothing wrong with cutting "profit" from one single class that gets to pay extra for less damage compared to other classes.

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Old 05-29-2010, 09:28 AM   #21
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True, most of the arrow cost on the broker is just how much it costs to make the arrows. And that means all those woodworkers aren't making money from selling those arrows anyway. So that can't be an excuse for making rangers pay so much for their autoattacks.

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Old 05-29-2010, 11:13 AM   #22
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15s x 100 = 1500s = 15g

You are suggesting that it costs 15g per combine to make arrows?  I don't have a woodworker, but I have an alchemist and jeweler.  It does not cost 15g to make 10 regular poisons.  You have a reduced fuel cost of 2 fuels on the combine.  As for the materials, most people are using guild harvesters.

It is not the end of the world to shell out a couple extra plat a day on arrows, but it isn't really fair either.  I do not make a couple extra plat on raids.  If bounty were passive like pickpocket for rogues I might.  Then of course we would be the only poison scout not getting a few extra plat per raid, so it still wouldn't be fair.

In order for it to be fair one of two things need to happen:

1) Rangers get a way to not have to pay for good arrows.

or

2) Mages begin using components, priests begin consuming candles and holy water, and fighters and rogues begin using sharpening stones to keep their blades keen.  If this happens though, you should allow all of these classes to take some AAs out of useful things and put them into some other AAs that will reduce their usage of these necessities a little bit.  You might even take one of their enervated's current buffs and change it into a cost reduction... just to be fair to them.

Life is not fair, so I'll live with it.  It is, however, a stupid mechanic.

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Old 05-29-2010, 12:58 PM   #23
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Aldhissla wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Aldhissla wrote:

Solution: Let WWs craft twice as many arrows per combine.

Will cause arrows to be cheaper and reduce grind for WWs.

This has an even less likely chance of happening then Endless quiver, cause provisioners and alchemists would throw a fit unless they somehow got included.

And how do they even have a say in this?

They already complain because they can't create full stacks of whatever they're making in combine and are repeatedly asking for it.  When considering usage I don't think they need to create full stacks like a woodworker does for arrows, but that argument gets lost.

Khurghan wrote:

Really guys, the price of arrows on the broker (unless you want lower level ones) is so cheap it effectively costs me more to make my own than to just buy them (unless they've all run out and someone has put some on at a rediculous price).

I have a woodworker who can make arrows for me and I never bother making my own arrows.

The problem with your argument is that on most servers this isn't the case.  If I'm forced to pay 20g per 100 arrows, 3g and some change is for the fuel, the remaining 16-17g is to cover cost of materials and the only one of which generally over 1g in price are the bamboo shoots.  Maybe on your server they're using sensible prices, the majority of servers they're not though.   Unfortunately when part of the problem is server economy, it's hard to get some people to notice where one problem is since they may not see it on their server, though the base problem is that No other class has to pay as much to do dps on a regular basis.  Poisons, and temp adorns don't count since they're used across several classes at roughly similar costs to each class.

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Old 05-29-2010, 02:57 PM   #24
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WW have totems if they want to make money, seriously there are some very nice ones out there, and even the lower tier ones can still be very useful.

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Old 05-29-2010, 05:12 PM   #25
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Don't most woodworkers make house items to sell? The arrow useage in eq2 is the highist i have ever seen in any MMO. Alot of MMO's now adays are doing away with arrows because of the annoyance factor. As for all the Realism people, if you can pretend you are a elf you can pretend you are using "arrows" and making them during down time.

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Old 05-29-2010, 05:29 PM   #26
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house items are all carpenter, not woodworker

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Old 05-29-2010, 05:50 PM   #27
Amyas

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Helrazor wrote:

Endless quiver was one of the AA's they considered the most overpowered in the original EQ game.  When AA's started there were numerous questions about this - it was stated then (and I haven't heard anything changed) that there would NEVER be Endless Quiver in EQ2.  Search around a bit in the Ranger forums...it's been asked for and denied over and over

EQ wasn't over powered at all it was the combo of EQ/AM3 at the time of a luclin exp they wear doing to much dps.

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Old 05-29-2010, 05:53 PM   #28
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eq2 has a market to buy and sell goods and services. 

 removing the need for it would in fact hurt the game, it makes sense leave it as it is.

    at least they fixed it so your CA's don't use ammo.

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Old 05-29-2010, 06:23 PM   #29
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I wouldn't mind seeing weaponsmiths also gain access to the ranged ammo recipes.  That would provide another source of ammo, which should theoritically increase supply and lower prices.  It'd also provide something for weaponsmiths, who could really use it.

Now, yeah, woodworkers might complain because arrows are wood, but then, they currently make throwing knives and those are not wood, typically all metal.

Another possibility would be the equivelant of the priests' ability to summon food and drink.  Free arrows, but crappy.

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Old 05-29-2010, 06:40 PM   #30
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So Rangers have to pay to cause their DPS. Well, suck it up. I really hate this playing field that has to be so level that you have to put a spirit level on every single blade of grass.

Dont like it? Reroll. I play a Ranger and accept its part of the class. I dont want to be a clone of another class I didnt want to play -  which seems to be the intent of the broader player base. I want to play a class that is unique and different for better or worse.

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