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Old 03-02-2008, 10:07 AM   #61
Beldin_

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I really hope Aeralik will NOT look into this thread again, because if he does , i could understand if he stops all plans in improving arrows.

Really could you guys not just wait now what happens, and do all your Raider vs. Casuals discussions elsewhere ? What idea comes next .. Rain of Arrows lvl 70 has to be as good as the Lvl 80 version  .. because they also are both T8 ? And Ranger who have cleared VP get money back for each arrow they shot, or a skill to use arrows out of the inventory of a poor Ranger who has no fabled items ? SMILEY

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Old 03-02-2008, 02:13 PM   #62
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Gisallo wrote:
[email protected] DLere wrote:
W t f?  There is absolutely no evidence that the devs see this as a primarily roleplaying game in which other forms of play are to take a back seat.  You are making baseless assertions.Furthermore, roleplaying issues have absolutely nothing to do with arrow progression.  As far as I can tell, you're merely using this thread to pump up your own chosen style of play.  Stop with the gratuitous self-aggrandizement and stay on topic.

As for that I am only a casual a roleplayer I just want to have fun, raids soloing, a little rp whatever gets me through the day.  I know many of people who are HARD core roleplayers and want them to be happy as well.  Since I play all sides of the fence I see all the points and try to find a balance between them. 

Also while trying to avoid it myself since you brought it up, it can be easily said that you are simply trying to "pump up" you style of play, wouldn't you say.  I know you will have logical reasons as to why I am wrong "we put in more time, more effort, more organization" etc.  This however can EASILY be said by many of the hardcore RP guilds on the RP servers, who put just as much time, effort and organization into doing smaller instances with a lot more roleplaying thrown in.  

Again I will say this is a MMO computer game with raid elements, not a Raid MMO.  There are some out there and EQ2 only started adding the major raid elements when the more raid oriented games started taking market share.  That would be proof enough that this game was designed as more for the casual player AND rper than the hard core raider.  BTW I never said it was only developed for the RPer, if it was I wouldn't be here, I was just trying to say this game isn't the sole purvue of raiders which we sometimes forget.  That being the case we as players should be trying to make this an enjoyable place for EVERYONE.  That means give and take...compromise even on mechanics items etc., not just for interclass but intraclass.

As for the devs saying it can be or is designed to be partially roleplaying focused?  Well when you have this game world created as part of an AD&D roleplaying game, you have Lore coming directly from the characters played in this (especially in some of the epics), heck many of the both minor and major NPC's are their characters and locations are named in memory of them (Lucan D Lere and Vhaylen and his Tower anyone?).  Heck when EQ came out it was heralded as a MMO Roleplaying game where people could do so with hundred or thousands of others.  No one ever came out and said "EQ 2, the end of roleplaying and the birth of SOE power gaming" the called it the new and improved EQ.  On top of that there are "role playing servers".  Hmm I guess they named those servers that so... who would go there?  All of these facts make it a logical deduction that roleplaying is part of their core concept as to what Everquest and EQ2 are about and that they are looking to find balance between the rper, the casual gamer and the raider, which as I have said elsewhere, requires balance and compromise.  Now again rping isn't the only reason (thank god, many a day I just want to raid, crush things and win new shiny gear)but it can not be dismissed out of hand as you appear to do. 

Clearly we are at an "agree to disagree" point and rather than have this thread start resembling something on eq2flames (where I put on my nomex underwear before entering) I think I will gracefully leave before the name calling continues.

Shouldn't that be "Gnomex™" ?
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:08 AM   #63
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[email protected] wrote:

I really hope Aeralik will NOT look into this thread again, because if he does , i could understand if he stops all plans in improving arrows.

Really could you guys not just wait now what happens, and do all your Raider vs. Casuals discussions elsewhere ? What idea comes next .. Rain of Arrows lvl 70 has to be as good as the Lvl 80 version  .. because they also are both T8 ? And Ranger who have cleared VP get money back for each arrow they shot, or a skill to use arrows out of the inventory of a poor Ranger who has no fabled items ? SMILEY

Agreed.  How bout we actually see how the situation pans out before dismissing it.
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:48 PM   #64
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Gisallo wrote:

There are some out there and EQ2 only started adding the major raid elements when the more raid oriented games started taking market share.  That would be proof enough that this game was designed as more for the casual player AND rper than the hard core raider

Not true.  At release, there were T2 epic mobs and T3/4/5 raid zones built in.  I'm not getting into some argument about who the game was designed for,  but don't start making stuff up to support your argument about something that really doesn't matter in the first place.

Raiding has been a part of EQ2 from day one.

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Old 03-03-2008, 02:01 PM   #65
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Gareorn wrote:
Gisallo wrote:

There are some out there and EQ2 only started adding the major raid elements when the more raid oriented games started taking market share.  That would be proof enough that this game was designed as more for the casual player AND rper than the hard core raider

Not true.  At release, there were T2 epic mobs and T3/4/5 raid zones built in.  I'm not getting into some argument about who the game was designed for,  but don't start making stuff up to support your argument about something that really doesn't matter in the first place.

Raiding has been a part of EQ2 from day one.

Stop this train of thought Gisallo. It has completely derailed this thread. As Gareorn already stated it has no bearing on the arrow mechanics and now you are just arguing to argue. This game was not made for rp'ers, it was not made for casuals, it was not made for raiders, it was not made for hardcores. It was made for everyone and that is why they are having such problemsSMILEY
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:13 PM   #66
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Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:37 PM   #67
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[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:10 PM   #68
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Yep, because currently hawk is the most useless spell in the game.What upsets me the most, is the fact that 65 spell is supposed to be the ultimate class-defining spell.And with that... we got total rubbish here comparing to all other classes...I did not even buy it...

Comparing this spell with what my other classes get (warden, necro and illy) as 65 spell make me upset every time I log in with my ranger.Even our counter part, assasin, did not get shafted as much as we did with Hawk.

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Old 03-06-2008, 06:12 PM   #69
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:53 PM   #70
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...
Think of the cry of despair when all the melee classes suddenly get a big dip in their slashing/crushing/piercing skills acompanied the sound of "whiff" as their attacks miss repeatedly for 15 secs while rangers increase their dps for the duration...
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:03 PM   #71
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...
Woot, I always wanted to debuff my own group. Now I'll always win the parse!
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:09 PM   #72
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...
Just don't nerf the duration or recast and I don't really have a problem with this personally...obviously we don't know what this means entirely though...
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:38 PM   #73
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[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...
Think of the cry of despair when all the melee classes suddenly get a big dip in their slashing/crushing/piercing skills acompanied the sound of "whiff" as their attacks miss repeatedly for 15 secs while rangers increase their dps for the duration...

Who told you It was The entire effects of focus aim Aeralik is  talking about? Think positive, it may well be one of the effects like an increase of dps for the whole group for the duration of the hawk. That may make the hawk usefull and make us rethink of putting AA points into Enhanced Hawk Attack, in the Survival line of the Ranger Achievements.

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Old 03-06-2008, 07:49 PM   #74
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macsux wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...
Woot, I always wanted to debuff my own group. Now I'll always win the parse!
Ok, I'm sure that this isn't going to be the case, but it totally cracked me up anyway SMILEY
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Old 03-07-2008, 04:08 AM   #75
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Thank you for the clarification Aeralik.

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Old 03-07-2008, 09:07 AM   #76
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...

Come on people, read the context and then you'll see what Aeralik means. SMILEY<img src=" width="83" height="30" />

By referring to Focus Aim he was telling you that Hawk Dive will not be changed/ or perhaps even be available on PvP servers after the fix, therefore he is free to do what he likes with it on the PvE servers without worry.

Personally I find the Hawk quite useful, especially for drawing aggro for a few key seconds whilst soloing. Half elves get a cool deaggro ability where I can bump myself down the hate list. If I launch Hawk and then fire off this deaggro,  hey presto the mob targets the hawk, giving me a second or two to fire off an extra snare and maybe get behind it. The Hawk doesn't have many hit points, but it can usually survive 1 or 2 hits from a level 80 heroic which is all the breathing room I need.

As a raid utility though, it is currently completely useless.

Edit: Somebody swapped all the keys around on my keyboard

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Old 03-07-2008, 09:49 AM   #77
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
The last time this was changed, it was reverted to the hawk breaking stealth within a very short period of time - iirc for PvP reasons. Has this issue been overcome or is it being ignored or even (please no) forgotten this time around?
Hopefully, the Hawk is changed to be something useful for raid purposes. Like others have mentioned before, maybe some type of raid wide ranged buff or power regen. Aeralik did mention bringing some type of utility to the Ranger class.
Think focus aim...

Come on people, read the context and then you'll see what Aeralik means. SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="83" height="30" />

By referring to Focus Aim he was telling you that Hawk Dive will not be changed/ or perhaps even be available on PvP servers after the fix, therefore he is free to do what he likes with it on the PvE servers without worry.

Almost correct I think. It will be available on pvp servers but will work differently or cancel in pvp-combat. To work differently is ok but it had better not cancel in pvp. Pvp rangers don't need any more nerfs.
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:45 AM   #78
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I'm not sure why he keeps posting here alluding to this and that. Just say what you are thinking Aeralik. That way, we, the rangers, can tell you whether or not it's worth investing time into it or not.
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:05 PM   #79
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[email protected] wrote:
I'm not sure why he keeps posting here alluding to this and that. Just say what you are thinking Aeralik. That way, we, the rangers, can tell you whether or not it's worth investing time into it or not.

I'm sure his side is hurting because we can't resist the urge to poke our voodoo dolls.  For me, his posts are a nice change (even if his style is a little dry) and a complete shift from the "you guys are fine" ones we were getting before.  Keep in mind these changes he's hinting at may not be fully fleshed out, so he may be doing just what he posted...thinking Focus Aim for a little utility.  Hopefully as it gets closer to GU44 we will get a more detailed version of the changes coming down the line.

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Old 03-07-2008, 01:48 PM   #80
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
I'm not sure why he keeps posting here alluding to this and that. Just say what you are thinking Aeralik. That way, we, the rangers, can tell you whether or not it's worth investing time into it or not.

I'm sure his side is hurting because we can't resist the urge to poke our voodoo dolls.  For me, his posts are a nice change (even if his style is a little dry) and a complete shift from the "you guys are fine" ones we were getting before.  Keep in mind these changes he's hinting at may not be fully fleshed out, so he may be doing just what he posted...thinking Focus Aim for a little utility.  Hopefully as it gets closer to GU44 we will get a more detailed version of the changes coming down the line.

 Muahahaha ! Don't you see guys that Aeralik has built himself a ranger woodoo doll to counter ours and as he throws hints here and there in this forum, he is really poking that woodoo doll head and messing with our brains SMILEY

I think we should take that with a wiff of humor. We did not know you that way Aeralik lol.

More seriously. I agree with Pogralien, let us stop speculating and wait for a more elaborate version of those changes we can discuss with him.

 Cor

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Old 03-07-2008, 05:24 PM   #81
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[email protected] wrote:
I'm not sure why he keeps posting here alluding to this and that. Just say what you are thinking Aeralik. That way, we, the rangers, can tell you whether or not it's worth investing time into it or not.
And in all fairness, what are your posts here accomplishing? There's already enough bitterness and cynicism going around. Your barbed comments are only going to make dev's more resistant to taking our complaints seriously.Am I saying don't be disgruntled? No. But you would do well focus your anger in a more constructive manner.
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:57 PM   #82
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Think Focus Aim? This makes me nervous. Focus is one of, if not the most, useful CA's we have. Lets talk Hawk, Stream, Coverage, etc.
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Old 03-07-2008, 06:50 PM   #83
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Gareorn wrote:
Think Focus Aim? This makes me nervous. Focus is one of, if not the most, useful CA's we have. Lets talk Hawk, Stream, Coverage, etc.
Me too, if it gets nerfed as a solo buff to pave the way for raid/group wide usefullness I'll be sad.
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:18 PM   #84
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Gareorn wrote:
Think Focus Aim? This makes me nervous. Focus is one of, if not the most, useful CA's we have. Lets talk Hawk, Stream, Coverage, etc.

With you 100% on this one!

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Old 03-07-2008, 08:53 PM   #85
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Personally I find the Hawk quite useful, especially for drawing aggro for a few key seconds whilst soloing.

Same. I've used it when I've gotten adds while soloing especially in Kunark to give the add something to chew on while I finish what I was doing with the first one. It stays on the hawk long enough for me to burn down the main mob and then I can focus on the add. Saved my life more than once.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:25 PM   #86
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Aeralik wrote:
You guys missed the most important fix of all though.  Your nice little hawk friend will no longer break stealth SMILEY
Quick question - is this a fix that is going to happen or that you already changed?  Was messing with the hawk and stealth tonight after reading your post the other day, and it still took me out of stealth whenever the hawk attacked, well it took me out of stealth when it was in combat and from Spy and Longstab. So figured I would just ask.
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:17 AM   #87
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[email protected] DLere wrote:
Gareorn wrote:
Think Focus Aim? This makes me nervous. Focus is one of, if not the most, useful CA's we have. Lets talk Hawk, Stream, Coverage, etc.
Me too, if it gets nerfed as a solo buff to pave the way for raid/group wide usefullness I'll be sad.
My impression was more that we may get focus as a group buff. Okay maybe we can complain then that with that other scouts do even more damage .. but at least that would be a nice utility for ALL
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Old 03-08-2008, 02:15 AM   #88
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Yes, messing with focus aim has me worried too; that is why I said tell us what is on his mind before going to all the effort to bork the one last remaining decent buff we have. They've already taken it from pvp'rs; god forbid he has some strange idea to take it away from pve and 'replace' it with some stupid group de-aggro like a 'new and improved hawk'. Right now he's baiting us; stringing us along with small hints and making everyone crazy. I'd rather he say nothing at all then make us bite our nails for a month worrying about what he's going to do to focus aim and if it will even exist for pve'rs in the future.

It would be more suitable if he came here to discuss things with us, as he said in a past post he would. Instead of worrying us with his one liners: 'we're fixing your hawk friend' and 'think focus aim'. We know better than most what rangers can tolerate in terms of 'fixes' and if you are thinking that next LU is going to be all giving and no taking, you are deluding yourself. I'd just like to hear a little more about what he's planning on giving and more importantly, what he plans on taking so we can discuss it with him in a roundtable fashion.

Already I am hearing cries from the pvp community about how the hawk was OP and breaking stealth was a fix for them. This worries me. Will it be fixed, only to be once again nerfed w/in a week when pvp'rs start crying for nerfs on it again? Are they considering both pvp and pve on these fixes, so we don't see the same thing we did when our epic was released and see all of LU 44 reversed the next day? Talk to us; it's important, so that we can make sure both sides are fixed and niether side will cry out for nerfs that will take two more years to fix.  

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Old 03-08-2008, 05:28 AM   #89
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[email protected] wrote:

Yes, messing with focus aim has me worried too; that is why I said tell us what is on his mind before going to all the effort to bork the one last remaining decent buff we have. They've already taken it from pvp'rs; god forbid he has some strange idea to take it away from pve and 'replace' it with some stupid group de-aggro like a 'new and improved hawk'. Right now he's baiting us; stringing us along with small hints and making everyone crazy. I'd rather he say nothing at all then make us bite our nails for a month worrying about what he's going to do to focus aim and if it will even exist for pve'rs in the future.

It would be more suitable if he came here to discuss things with us, as he said in a past post he would. Instead of worrying us with his one liners: 'we're fixing your hawk friend' and 'think focus aim'. We know better than most what rangers can tolerate in terms of 'fixes' and if you are thinking that next LU is going to be all giving and no taking, you are deluding yourself. I'd just like to hear a little more about what he's planning on giving and more importantly, what he plans on taking so we can discuss it with him in a roundtable fashion.

Already I am hearing cries from the pvp community about how the hawk was OP and breaking stealth was a fix for them. This worries me. Will it be fixed, only to be once again nerfed w/in a week when pvp'rs start crying for nerfs on it again? Are they considering both pvp and pve on these fixes, so we don't see the same thing we did when our epic was released and see all of LU 44 reversed the next day? Talk to us; it's important, so that we can make sure both sides are fixed and niether side will cry out for nerfs that will take two more years to fix.  

My guess is either a group or raidwide effect that increases melee and range chance to hit.  Either that or lowers melee hit rate and increases ranged hit rate raidwide to improve your position on the parse SMILEY
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:01 AM   #90
Neiloch

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Hmm I thought making everyone in the raid have further range on all their attacks would have been a neat utility, but can easily see it being useless in some situations.Activated, limited duration group or raid buffs are bad in general (for non tanks) I find because it tends to gain aggro. I suppose they could just flag it to not generate aggro though. theres a reason some group buffs have long recast timers even though you are the one that toggled them off. I just hope what ever is being done is completely independent of Focus Aim, and is just similar to it.Also have a final reply to the arrow progression stuff, fine make T8 raid arrows, but they have to be universally more expensive to get than handcrafted crafted arrows. No 'free ride' summoned arrows. It would only be fair and would be perfectly in line with all other types of item progression.
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