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Old 12-15-2007, 01:25 PM   #31
TheSpin

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I just wanted to mention that just because a developer hasn't responded to a post, it doesn't mean a dev hasn't taken time to read it.  If I was in charge of fixing a problem like this I would read this post and then get to work on a solution.  Until that solution is found there is little reason for a dev to post here. 

How many threads have you seen where devs post , "Thanks for the heads up, we're trying to figure this out but we don't know how yet."  Most dev responses are all about good news so they won't post until there is some.  This is likely for a couple reasons, but one of the first that come to mind is the dev tracker and that them posting in a thread that they don't have a solution for is going to bring more publicity to an issue that they haven't solved yet.

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Old 12-15-2007, 03:16 PM   #32
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TheSpin wrote:

I just wanted to mention that just because a developer hasn't responded to a post, it doesn't mean a dev hasn't taken time to read it.  If I was in charge of fixing a problem like this I would read this post and then get to work on a solution.  Until that solution is found there is little reason for a dev to post here. 

How many threads have you seen where devs post , "Thanks for the heads up, we're trying to figure this out but we don't know how yet."  Most dev responses are all about good news so they won't post until there is some.  This is likely for a couple reasons, but one of the first that come to mind is the dev tracker and that them posting in a thread that they don't have a solution for is going to bring more publicity to an issue that they haven't solved yet.

[Removed for Content].  Dood you are totally going to take this the wrong way but there's really no other way to put it.  This is not a "new" thread.  Although the level of thought that went into this one (formatting wise) put it into a context into which any half way intelligent person would go OMG these rangers are totally getting hosed!My point is the great and all powerful SOE Devs (Wizard of Oz reference there) have known about all these issues posted here.  The person who authored the post even stated that this is a compilation of ongoing issues that Rangers have endured over the past X amount of months.  So them trying to figure it out and fix it and then respond to these posts should have been weeks ago.  Not weeks from now.
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:57 PM   #33
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I would agree that they are busy and the holidays slow things up, but at the same time a quick pop in and a "hi" so to speak is far from uncalled for from the staff who support the game we all play : )

Ive seen quite a few posts of this nature have a dev pop in to say "hey I read through this and am going to look into a few things". And that simple reply alone allowed most of that class who were passionate enough to post to sit back and take a small sigh of relief : )

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Old 12-15-2007, 03:58 PM   #34
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sorry left blank double post , internet grrrrr

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Old 12-15-2007, 04:05 PM   #35
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sorry left blank, triple post

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Old 12-16-2007, 04:40 AM   #36
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I am still lobbying to get some kind of response to this post.  Please post and show your support of this topic, ranger or not.

 Thank you,

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Old 12-16-2007, 05:32 AM   #37
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This issue is on our radar. Due to its complexity, there's nothing immediate we can do about it, but we are discussing it and looking into it.

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Old 12-16-2007, 06:05 AM   #38
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Woah... they are finally going to look into an issue with the ranger class that might result in something good. Dust off your bows, and put away your swashies its time to get to work. Thank you to the OP for not giving up on us and finally drawing attention to these issues.
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:07 PM   #39
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Fyreflyte wrote:

This issue is on our radar. Due to its complexity, there's nothing immediate we can do about it, but we are discussing it and looking into it.

TY very Much Fyreflyte for the responce, waiting anxiously for any news SMILEY
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:40 PM   #40
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Thank you so much for responding to this post Fyreflyle.  Please continue the dialogue with the Ranger community.  It is nice to know that it is being looked into but don't ignore the vast experience and ideas available to you here and on other forums such as Flames.  Getting input early will drastically reduce the chance of time and resources being spent on a solution that falls short of both developer and player expectations.  I believe that if ideas are presented as brainstorming your player base will be more then happy to help and later won't jump on you for unfulfilled promises.  I for one will defend you and the others working on this to the hilt if accusations of "they said they would do this and then ended up not doing it" come from a brainstorming thread.  I'm sure others agree.  Some things that would start things rolling would be for us as players to know the current vision for a Ranger.  Should DPS balancing be done considering the best equipped (including poisons and arrows which can carry a high cost other classes don't have) and best played rangers, or do you shoot for a middle of the road average?  How do you balance itemization, both in effects on the items and in number of drops, for rangers considering they have very specific needs apart from their melee brethren but only make up 1/6th of the scouts?  How do you consider raid utility when you determine DPS balancing? Anyway, thanks agian for letting us know you are out there reading and please don't be a stranger.  Drop in and update us, use our feedback, make communication a goal and everyone will be much happier.  Domino is a wonderful example of a passionate developer that listens to the players but doesn't pull a punch when it is needed either and the community has responded to her making the game more enjoyable for everyone.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:36 PM   #41
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Fyreflyte wrote:

This issue is on our radar. Due to its complexity, there's nothing immediate we can do about it, but we are discussing it and looking into it.

First off, thank you for responding.  Just to clear up some fog on the issue of your area of responsibilities in regards to scouts, specifically the ranger class, are you assigned as our Dev?  The reason I ask is to get an idea of where, in regards to priority of your list of projects, do we fall?

Perusing your previous posts, I notice that the majority of your forum responses fall in itemization and equipment topics.  Now I know that bow and arrow mechanics fall into that category, and I can well understand the complexity of those mechanics, considering the math.  I feel confident at least that this issue is at least being looked at by someone who knows the importance and dependency rangers have on relying on their bows as their primary weapon.

The state of the ranger class as a whole though, goes beyond just bows and arrows, which is why I guess I'm still foggy as to who our class Dev is, and why I'm asking this question.

Thank you again for recognizing and responding to us.

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Old 12-16-2007, 08:04 PM   #42
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Fyreflyte was kind enough to respond here and let us know what was going on.  I have tried to involve all the Developers and point them to this.  Aeralik (Lead Design) knows about this, Domino (Tradeskilling - Arrows) knows about this, and Fyreflyte was kind enough to come post and let us know that they are looking at it.  It may not be a quick fix issue, but at least we are recognized now and hopefully they will look into doing something about it.  This is progress, please don't think the issue is solved.  Continued to post with problems and thoughts and suggestions.

 Remember, that while they design this game, every beta shows them that players will do 10,000 things that they never thought to test for or design for, and we know the game better than anyone, because we are immersed in it, but we just see a small piece of the big painting that they have to deal with.  Allow them some time to come up with some type of solution, but don't stop pointing out what can be mended and what is broken.

 -Hexus Lupis-

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Old 12-17-2007, 04:56 AM   #43
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Arrow mechanics aside,I'm really dissapointed in teh ranger's melee dps. I just betrayed my lvl 27 assassin early in the week,39 aa and all,to Qeynos. Fresh set of adept 3's and masters(what I could find) later,and I'm out giving him a go. ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Dps seems none-existent,even at ranged. Mind this Ranger is in a full set of steel mc,fully adorned,and cannot take a blue con cloth wearer even with getting the drop and the hardest hitting of my ranged attacks off. In fact,all my ranged attacks. Absolutely rediculous IMO. So I'm looking at two gimped rangers now. And it's sad,since rangers are a wonderful class. I would gladly have less runspeed for enough dps to put up a fight,instead of being a token/fame machine to any pvp'er I end up facing. Please,for the sake of the ranger community,give us back a bit of dps. Pvp rangers,no matter how twinked,are getting nailed hard on Vox. Not asking for an easy button here,jsut to stay alive a little bit,instead of getting our faces pwned when we run without a group.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:01 AM   #44
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Something else as well. I read here on the forums,to paraphrase "You want a melee ranger? Play an assassin." Which would be groovy,except we can't have that class in Qeynos. And IMO,the assassin has 10 times the dps(my exaggeration of course,since I don't know the actual numbers). As soon as I got villiany,all bets were off. Master 1'd it was jsut sick compared to any amount of damage my ranger can do.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:41 PM   #45
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I dinged 80 last night.  Then I went to Chelsith.  The parses were a bit dissapointing.  I'm using MC poisons and I have the Conservation AA.  Our DPS needs help and the help should come from these bizarre arrow and bow mechanics.Let a woodworker make level 80 arrows at level 80, level 70 arrows at level 70, and so on.Than go and balance your bows.Its some work, but after it is done, you have a system that makes sense and a ranger class that will probably shut up and be happy shooting things.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:59 PM   #46
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Isnt it rather strange that the T8 arrows arent exactly in and what a coincidence.. Specialized faction recipies for trade skillers arent in the game yet either. Could that be part of the fun thats waiting to be put into the game? I'd rather they did a proper and tested, oh and balanced  implementation than a shoddy one.  I understand you feel you have something to complain about but you didnt stop to think about pieces of the expansion that have not been implemented yet. You arent the only ones waiting (/cough you will be 80 for perhaps 2 years so a few months isnt a big deal)  and i have a feeling that the best is yet to come for both of holes waiting for closure.

/gets off my soapbox

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Old 12-17-2007, 06:08 PM   #47
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I think what they have done is return the arrow mechanics back to pre t5 (UD13?) , however back then we had two options.

One was mastercrafted arrows they acted like t6 ammo giving the t5 bow 100 %. The other was NPC ammo merchants sold t6 arrows.

If we return to that formula we would have:

 t8 npc merchantarrow

                                                                                   or

Tynnonite

Again facts maybe wrong going from memory.

 Ruldayen

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Old 12-18-2007, 01:40 PM   #48
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DuskNightfall wrote:

Isnt it rather strange that the T8 arrows arent exactly in and what a coincidence.. Specialized faction recipies for trade skillers arent in the game yet either. Could that be part of the fun thats waiting to be put into the game? I'd rather they did a proper and tested, oh and balanced  implementation than a shoddy one.  I understand you feel you have something to complain about but you didnt stop to think about pieces of the expansion that have not been implemented yet. You arent the only ones waiting (/cough you will be 80 for perhaps 2 years so a few months isnt a big deal)  and i have a feeling that the best is yet to come for both of holes waiting for closure.

/gets off my soapbox

T8 crafted arrows are in the game, they are level 67 ferrite arrows that require a 76 Woodworker to make. Adding more arrows is not the fix to this problem, it's only a bandaid to it.
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:29 PM   #49
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DuskNightfall wrote:

Isnt it rather strange that the T8 arrows arent exactly in and what a coincidence.. Specialized faction recipies for trade skillers arent in the game yet either. Could that be part of the fun thats waiting to be put into the game? I'd rather they did a proper and tested, oh and balanced  implementation than a shoddy one.  I understand you feel you have something to complain about but you didnt stop to think about pieces of the expansion that have not been implemented yet. You arent the only ones waiting (/cough you will be 80 for perhaps 2 years so a few months isnt a big deal)  and i have a feeling that the best is yet to come for both of holes waiting for closure.

/gets off my soapbox

You have no idea what this thread is about or what the arrow issue really is. There are T8 arrows in the game. They are level 67! They are called Ferrite arrows. There have never been tier appropriate arrows in the game. t7 are 57, t6 are 47 and so on and so on. I suggest you read up on all of these threads here and the combat boards to get a better understanding of the arrow mechanic. After all, it affects your class the mostSMILEY
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:57 PM   #50
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This issue is ancient, I doubt a viable solution is on the horizon.
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Old 12-24-2007, 05:59 AM   #51
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If this issue is ancient, it's only truly become a real serious issue in T8.  Most of the higher end raiding personnel acquired the bows from DT or if they weren't a raider they stuck with the HQ Bow and used the T7 Crafted arrows to maximize damage.  Now there's no real choice for anyone except to continue using this broken mechanic.  We need to keep this post alive, because a simple one line post from a Developer does not a solution make.  Voice your opinions, make some kind of statement.

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Old 12-24-2007, 03:26 PM   #52
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Ranja wrote:
DuskNightfall wrote:

Isnt it rather strange that the T8 arrows arent exactly in and what a coincidence.. Specialized faction recipies for trade skillers arent in the game yet either.

...

/gets off my soapbox

You have no idea what this thread is about or what the arrow issue really is. There are T8 arrows in the game. They are level 67! They are called Ferrite arrows. There have never been tier appropriate arrows in the game. t7 are 57, t6 are 47 and so on and so on. I suggest you read up on all of these threads here and the combat boards to get a better understanding of the arrow mechanic. After all, it affects your class the mostSMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15">

yes technically "tier 8 crafted" arrows are in game, but as everyone (except sony) knows, the result is not truly tier 8 ammo. 

i think he meant that one of the faction recipies could be for arrows that are lvl 70+, which would be TRUE t8 ammo, provided it doesnt require a fabled harvest to make 1 stack.

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Old 12-27-2007, 06:11 PM   #53
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Fyreflyte wrote:

This issue is on our radar. Due to its complexity, there's nothing immediate we can do about it, but we are discussing it and looking into it.

Please don't take this as flippant or rude, but you've had literally months to fix this.  Is it any more complicated than letting Woodworkers make arrows for each tier?
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:15 AM   #54
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This whole arrow lvl vs bow lvl issue is so old and lame IMO they will never fix it.  Reality is a bow damage range should be set regardless of the arrow used.  The arrow should just add to the damage.  Better arrows would add +250 CA ranged damage or some such thing and then just scale the added damage to the tier of the arrow.If they went to a system like this Field points could add high bonus CA damage, Bodkins could add high +to hit bonus, and Broadheads could add DoT (ie +45 damage every 4 sec).  They could do some cool things with it.

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Old 12-28-2007, 12:27 PM   #55
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[email protected] wrote:

This whole arrow lvl vs bow lvl issue is so old and lame IMO they will never fix it.  Reality is a bow damage range should be set regardless of the arrow used.  The arrow should just add to the damage.  Better arrows would add +250 CA ranged damage or some such thing and then just scale the added damage to the tier of the arrow.If they went to a system like this Field points could add high bonus CA damage, Bodkins could add high +to hit bonus, and Broadheads could add DoT (ie +45 damage every 4 sec).  They could do some cool things with it.

That's a workable quick-fix imo.
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:35 PM   #56
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[email protected] wrote:

This whole arrow lvl vs bow lvl issue is so old and lame IMO they will never fix it.  Reality is a bow damage range should be set regardless of the arrow used.  The arrow should just add to the damage.  Better arrows would add +250 CA ranged damage or some such thing and then just scale the added damage to the tier of the arrow.If they went to a system like this Field points could add high bonus CA damage, Bodkins could add high +to hit bonus, and Broadheads could add DoT (ie +45 damage every 4 sec).  They could do some cool things with it.

CA's don't use arrows anymore, lets not backstep here. The mechanic is for autoattack when ammo usage occurs.

Ok, Holidays almost over, Dev's do us proud, and fix this boondoggle!

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Old 12-29-2007, 09:43 PM   #57
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Ranged CA should use arrows.  IMO its common sense that anytime you fire a bow (CA or AA) an arrow should be consumed.  When they did away with arrow consumption by CA it was a bad move.  They need to shorten the makeshift arrow timer is all and up the amount you get.  Set the damage range on bows as I described before and give player crafted arrows bonuses. Have Summoned arrows add nothing or even give a negative.  But the magical non-existing arrows my toon fires now with every CA is silly.  If your a ranger and run out of arrows your a bad ranger and the term "NOOB" would be fitting.

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Old 12-30-2007, 12:18 AM   #58
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[email protected] wrote:

Ranged CA should use arrows.  IMO its common sense that anytime you fire a bow (CA or AA) an arrow should be consumed.  When they did away with arrow consumption by CA it was a bad move.  They need to shorten the makeshift arrow timer is all and up the amount you get.  Set the damage range on bows as I described before and give player crafted arrows bonuses. Have Summoned arrows add nothing or even give a negative.  But the magical non-existing arrows my toon fires now with every CA is silly.  If your a ranger and run out of arrows your a bad ranger and the term "NOOB" would be fitting.

I think before that, they would have to make them worth using. Don't think any raiders( i dont thats for sure) use them or even still have it on their hot bar.
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:59 AM   #59
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[email protected] wrote:

Ranged CA should use arrows.  IMO its common sense that anytime you fire a bow (CA or AA) an arrow should be consumed.  When they did away with arrow consumption by CA it was a bad move.  They need to shorten the makeshift arrow timer is all and up the amount you get.  Set the damage range on bows as I described before and give player crafted arrows bonuses. Have Summoned arrows add nothing or even give a negative.  But the magical non-existing arrows my toon fires now with every CA is silly.  If your a ranger and run out of arrows your a bad ranger and the term "NOOB" would be fitting.

I personally don't miss firing through 2400 arrows on a 4 hour raid becaus RA's used arrows, but I would be willing to take it back (Even if the only T9 Arrows were player crafted) if they would fix the arrow mechanics and give us arrows that upgrade with our bows.  Masochistic? You bet, but it would be worth it in the long run, maybe some rangers would be wanted on raids again and in the upper echelon raiding guilds again, and not just there because they've always been there or are friends with the GL (I.E. they'd actually be WANTED again).

And this post isn't about ONLY arrow mechanics, but I believe that fix would negate most of the other complaints involved.

-Hexus-

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Old 12-30-2007, 05:17 AM   #60
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Hexus wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

Ranged CA should use arrows.  IMO its common sense that anytime you fire a bow (CA or AA) an arrow should be consumed.  When they did away with arrow consumption by CA it was a bad move.  They need to shorten the makeshift arrow timer is all and up the amount you get.  Set the damage range on bows as I described before and give player crafted arrows bonuses. Have Summoned arrows add nothing or even give a negative.  But the magical non-existing arrows my toon fires now with every CA is silly.  If your a ranger and run out of arrows your a bad ranger and the term "NOOB" would be fitting.

I personally don't miss firing through 2400 arrows on a 4 hour raid becaus RA's used arrows, but I would be willing to take it back (Even if the only T9 Arrows were player crafted) if they would fix the arrow mechanics and give us arrows that upgrade with our bows.  Masochistic? You bet, but it would be worth it in the long run, maybe some rangers would be wanted on raids again and in the upper echelon raiding guilds again, and not just there because they've always been there or are friends with the GL (I.E. they'd actually be WANTED again).

And this post isn't about ONLY arrow mechanics, but I believe that fix would negate most of the other complaints involved.

-Hexus-

I 100% completely disagree. The arrow fix is just that a fix, we shouldnt have to suffer stepping back a few LU's with the consumption of arrows on CA's so that we can shoot an arrow that is the proper tier.
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