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Old 12-05-2007, 09:58 PM   #1
Hexus

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***********DISCLAIMER**************Before you read any further, know that this thread is specifically aimed at Rangers, WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING ANY OTHER CLASS BUT RANGERS.We are also NOT Discussing PVP, a Vast Majority of the Rangers at Large are PVE Rangers, so we are speaking for them here. A Majority of Rangers (PVP and PVE Rangers) believe that PVP and PVE should be seperated entirely, as they have resounding effects on each other, but the problems of a few rangers on PVP is greatly effecting the raid justifiability of many of the PVE Rangers.***********END DISCLAIMER***********For any Developers that read here, here is a summary of what we feel is wrong with the ranger class, our observations, and our thoughts. This is a Compilation of many observations and statements of the Ranger community and not a rant but a general synopsis of the things we feel need addressed.Statement: Rangers are supposed to be RANGE DPS. We have a total of 6 Melee Abilities that we can use other than Ranged attack and the majority (85%) of our AA lines are geared towards ranged combat.FIRST ISSUE: Bow/Arrow mechanics.As it stands right now, an arrow has to be the exact same level as a bow to be able to do 100% of it's possible damage. The reasoning for this was originally so each tier of tradeskilling would be needed with each tier of levels people went through. (I.E. you could not use level 10 arrows and effectively get the same amount of damage as level 40 arrows in auto attack. The Ranged Ability damage for our skills are set in stone, and the only thing that really effects those are skills which Add to Combat Art Damage and Critical Hits.)

In practice and implementation this was a fair and novel idea for players and tradeskillers alike. Somewhere along the line someone stopped following up and let this problem get out of hand. Rangers are the only class that relies on their Bow for 80%+ of their DPS, so of course failing to follow up on this would immediately effect the Ranger more than any other class.As it stands right now, the only way for a Ranger to get the damage their bow says they should be getting is to use an Arrow that is Exactly the Same Level as the bow. Mechanics-wise right now, it is more efficient and more damaging for a ranger to use a Tier 7 Fabled Bow with Tier 7 Ammunition than to even worry about upgrading to a Tier 8 Bow. Level 80 Woodworkers can only make level 67 Arrows, so there is not even an option of Tier 8 Ammunition to go with the bow. The Cart has been put before the Horse.Current Example of Tier 7 Raid Fabled Bow versus Tier 8 Raid Fabled Bow:Examples using /weapon command:No Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 805-3218Dragonhawk 841-3363As it should be, the Dragonhawk is a Tier 8 Fabled Bow and should be rated higher for perspective damage.Deathtoll summoned Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 869-3093Dragonhawk 784-2753The arrow mechanics come into play. Remember this is a raid-week lockout zone and a rather rare drop to get this ammunition in the first place.Crafted lvl 67 bodkin Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 892-3116Dragonhawk 807-2776This is the best Player-Crafted ammunition one can buy, level 67, and because of the mechanics you can get more damage with it from the Tier 7 Fabled Bow.Basically you downgrade your damage by getting the New Higher Damage Rating Bow because of the spread between Ammunition Level and Bow Level.

SECOND ISSUE: Spells and Items that fail to acknowledge the Ranger Class

I understand that Rangers are only 1 of the 6 scout archetype classes, but we are also the ONLY one (Once Again) who uses our BOW for 80%+ of our DPS and continues to be ignored when designing spells. Range and Melee should fall under the same buffs, however they do not.The List of Offending spells:Dirge: Cacaphony of Blades and Upgrades: The haste does stick to rangers, however there are no other benefits. This would be less DPS for a ranger than any other melee scout because our weapon delay is 9.0 while most other scouts use 4.0 and less delay weapons - We still get no benefit other than haste.Fury: Agitate: Does not work with ranged.Fae Fires: Does not work with ranged.Templar:Glory of Battle: Does not work with ranged.Holy Redoubt: Does not give ranged benefit.Sorceror:Phoenixblade and other damage spells: 0 Ranged Benefit.Guardian: Call to Siege: Does not give any ranged benefit.Items that do not give any beneficial effect when used with Ranged Attack are too many to list, and the ones that do are: Maestro's Flame (Contested x2 Epic Mob)Buckler of the Howler (5 Day Lockout Instanced x4 Epic Mob)We are starting to see the set class armor (Tier 8 Fabled) give +Ranged Double Attack and + Ranged Crit, this is a step in the right direction and for that we are thankful.Epic Quests for Ranger: 4 Epic Quest Lines, none of them useful for Ranged attack, and the one that was useful for Ranged attack was changed due to a "bug."

Imbued Rings: Strength ring not working at all with Ranged.

Coif of the Reet Knight: Not working at all with Ranged.I would complain more about Tier 7 Itemization however we are no longer in Tier 7 so I feel it is not a valid complaint. Thank you to the developers again who have listened and (it looks like beginning) to see what we were talking about with + ranged crit and + ranged double attack chance on items with + melee Crit and + melee double attack chance.THIRD ISSUE: Raid Usefulness Because of these changes, rangers have become less useful than the other scout classes in raids. We offer nothing to the rest of the raid except some out of combat movement speed, which has no practical application in any raid setting. We offer no beneficial reason to be in a raid other than our damage and the fact that it is from range.Because of Bow/Arrow Mechanics we have less damage than other classes and combined with the lack of beneficial buffs which do not effect ranged dps Tier 8 has shown improvement to the other scout classes while it has shown stagnation in ours.Rangers are getting turned down for raids and guilds in favor of other (And Frankly, better suited.) classes which offer the same if not more damage per second and raid/group utility in the form of spells/debuffs/abilities.Please look into these issues and please keep us advised of what you are doing or that you have even read this and acknowledge it.----------------END OF STATMENT--------------------Hexus Lupis--The Ranger Community as a Whole-Special Thanks to: Lewz, Detterrent, Ranja, Cocytus, FuriCuri, Firza, Encantador, Balerius, MedstbhThanks to all of the Ranger Players that have continued to stick with this class through the good and bad times.

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Old 12-05-2007, 10:16 PM   #2
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You might want to add the Sebilite Croaking Dirk to the list of weapons that benefit us: +10% to all crafted poison damage.Other than that, excellent post. The arrow mechanics need a thorough investigation - or a downright removal of ammo level.The damage from the different arrows increase via tiers anyhow, so rangers who want max damage (or, more important, max +to hit) will still use the highend crafted arrows.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:45 PM   #3
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very well put...i cant help but feel it will be falling on deaf ears though. it seems to me long ago the devs decided they hated the ranger class and have since been trying to discourage people from playing it. my 51 ranger has solo'd because no one wants him in groups. he has run speed to offer, but who cares?

I understand that developers do not wish to make us buff bots...i do not desire that either, but as it stands, i have nothing but DPS to bring to the table...and our dps is not the best around, so other classes are much more useful in most raid and group situations.

I think what they need to do is just lower the damage dealt by auto attacks and ranged combat arts when in duels or pvping, instead of blindly nerfing skills or just making it more difficult to play. 

our dps is under control...i mean, utility classes easily outparse my ranger even if their gear sucks compared to mine. I cant help but think about rangers i have raided with on my main swashbuckler. most of them had MUCH better gear than my swashy, full fabled, and i was in legendary, mastercrafted, and treasured. even with the best bows available in the game, i could still outparse them due to the broken arrow mechanics.

as it stands rangers just dont bring anything to the table on raids...and so i keep playing my swashy.

it would be awsome if this post actually made a differance, somehow i dont belive that devs even look at anything the community wants regarding rangers, unless its another fury wanting them to be nerfed cause they cant beat one in pvp.

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Old 12-05-2007, 11:55 PM   #4
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Have actually PM'd a link of this post to Aeralik and Fyreflyte, hopefully they'll come read it.

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Old 12-06-2007, 04:56 AM   #5
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Just wanted to second everything you said regarding arrow mechanics and group buffs not benefiting us.  Another concern of mine is the heroic drops for ranged DA (wrist from CoA and the Impetuous set shoulders) have sta/agi/int instead of str/agi/int.
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:44 AM   #6
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Great post, Hexus, thanks.Growler wrote:
You might want to add the Sebilite Croaking Dirk to the list of weapons that benefit us: +10% to all crafted poison damage.
Where can I get that? :o
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:54 AM   #7
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It may add 10% to poison dmg but it sucks so much most people have been vendoring it.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:12 PM   #8
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Clarrice:Well, it might suck for all other scouts than rangers. With my pityful intelligence while soloing (156), I do 822 damage with Expert's Caustic poison - 904 damage with the dirk equipped - crits for 1161-ish. It's noticeable in my ACT parses.Deterrent:I got it for 8p on the broker, there were several up there, that was the lowest. It drops from mobs in Sebilis and Crypt of Agony (http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-1407295719)I don't really care about the price I paid for it, and we'll probably drop several once the guild starts farming CoA - 8p is nothing, compared to what we will be paying for Masters...
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:31 PM   #9
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Done CoA etc every single day for last wekk or two and never seen it drop.  Or the bloody mana drain bow.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:46 PM   #10
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Change the subject to Non-PvP Rangers you want to disregard the best rangers.
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:04 AM   #11
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The developers just need to spend 15 minutes and add a level 80 arrow.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:05 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:
Change the subject to Non-PvP Rangers you want to disregard the best rangers.
huh?  PvP rangers do instances and raid too you know.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:18 AM   #13
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Just did the same quest on my dirge and ranger - see anything wrong with the quest rewards for the same quest?
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:21 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:
Change the subject to Non-PvP Rangers you want to disregard the best rangers.
ROFLMAO! SMILEY Stop... SMILEY it!  You're killing me! SMILEY
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:28 AM   #15
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Clarrice wrote:
Just did the same quest on my dirge and ranger - see anything wrong with the quest rewards for the same quest?
That is ridiculous. Who the hell do they think that necklace is for? The other ranged class that wants low strength on their items?? REmove all the stamina and add it to strength. Get rid of the + 8 combat regen and give it +5 ranged. Now we have a neckpiece SMILEY
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:33 PM   #16
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I agree with just about everything ive read here. We have a few issues that need to have alittle time spent adjusting and adding, and all I can hope is this post gets alittle attention.
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Old 12-09-2007, 12:38 AM   #17
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Hexus wrote:

***********DISCLAIMER**************Before you read any further, know that this thread is specifically aimed at Rangers, WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING ANY OTHER CLASS BUT RANGERS.We are also NOT Discussing PVP, a Vast Majority of the Rangers at Large are PVE Rangers, so we are speaking for them here. A Majority of Rangers (PVP and PVE Rangers) believe that PVP and PVE should be seperated entirely, as they have resounding effects on each other, but the problems of a few rangers on PVP is greatly effecting the raid justifiability of many of the PVE Rangers.***********END DISCLAIMER***********For any Developers that read here, here is a summary of what we feel is wrong with the ranger class, our observations, and our thoughts. This is a Compilation of many observations and statements of the Ranger community and not a rant but a general synopsis of the things we feel need addressed.Statement: Rangers are supposed to be RANGE DPS. We have a total of 6 Melee Abilities that we can use other than Ranged attack and the majority (85%) of our AA lines are geared towards ranged combat.FIRST ISSUE: Bow/Arrow mechanics.As it stands right now, an arrow has to be the exact same level as a bow to be able to do 100% of it's possible damage. The reasoning for this was originally so each tier of tradeskilling would be needed with each tier of levels people went through. (I.E. you could not use level 10 arrows and effectively get the same amount of damage as level 40 arrows in auto attack. The Ranged Ability damage for our skills are set in stone, and the only thing that really effects those are skills which Add to Combat Art Damage and Critical Hits.)

In practice and implementation this was a fair and novel idea for players and tradeskillers alike. Somewhere along the line someone stopped following up and let this problem get out of hand. Rangers are the only class that relies on their Bow for 80%+ of their DPS, so of course failing to follow up on this would immediately effect the Ranger more than any other class.As it stands right now, the only way for a Ranger to get the damage their bow says they should be getting is to use an Arrow that is Exactly the Same Level as the bow. Mechanics-wise right now, it is more efficient and more damaging for a ranger to use a Tier 7 Fabled Bow with Tier 7 Ammunition than to even worry about upgrading to a Tier 8 Bow. Level 80 Woodworkers can only make level 67 Arrows, so there is not even an option of Tier 8 Ammunition to go with the bow. The Cart has been put before the Horse.Current Example of Tier 7 Raid Fabled Bow versus Tier 8 Raid Fabled Bow:Examples using /weapon command:No Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 805-3218Dragonhawk 841-3363As it should be, the Dragonhawk is a Tier 8 Fabled Bow and should be rated higher for perspective damage.Deathtoll summoned Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 869-3093Dragonhawk 784-2753The arrow mechanics come into play. Remember this is a raid-week lockout zone and a rather rare drop to get this ammunition in the first place.Crafted lvl 67 bodkin Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 892-3116Dragonhawk 807-2776This is the best Player-Crafted ammunition one can buy, level 67, and because of the mechanics you can get more damage with it from the Tier 7 Fabled Bow.Basically you downgrade your damage by getting the New Higher Damage Rating Bow because of the spread between Ammunition Level and Bow Level.

SECOND ISSUE: Spells and Items that fail to acknowledge the Ranger Class

I understand that Rangers are only 1 of the 6 scout archetype classes, but we are also the ONLY one (Once Again) who uses our BOW for 80%+ of our DPS and continues to be ignored when designing spells. Range and Melee should fall under the same buffs, however they do not.The List of Offending spells:Dirge: Cacaphony of Blades and Upgrades: The haste does stick to rangers, however there are no other benefits. This would be less DPS for a ranger than any other melee scout because our weapon delay is 9.0 while most other scouts use 4.0 and less delay weapons - We still get no benefit other than haste.Fury: Agitate: Does not work with ranged.Fae Fires: Does not work with ranged.Templar:Glory of Battle: Does not work with ranged.Holy Redoubt: Does not give ranged benefit.Sorceror:Phoenixblade and other damage spells: 0 Ranged Benefit.Guardian: Call to Siege: Does not give any ranged benefit.Items that do not give any beneficial effect when used with Ranged Attack are too many to list, and the ones that do are: Maestro's Flame (Contested x2 Epic Mob)Buckler of the Howler (5 Day Lockout Instanced x4 Epic Mob)We are starting to see the set class armor (Tier 8 Fabled) give +Ranged Double Attack and + Ranged Crit, this is a step in the right direction and for that we are thankful.Epic Quests for Ranger: 4 Epic Quest Lines, none of them useful for Ranged attack, and the one that was useful for Ranged attack was changed due to a "bug."

Imbued Rings: Strength ring not working at all with Ranged.

Coif of the Reet Knight: Not working at all with Ranged.I would complain more about Tier 7 Itemization however we are no longer in Tier 7 so I feel it is not a valid complaint. Thank you to the developers again who have listened and (it looks like beginning) to see what we were talking about with + ranged crit and + ranged double attack chance on items with + melee Crit and + melee double attack chance.THIRD ISSUE: Raid Usefulness Because of these changes, rangers have become less useful than the other scout classes in raids. We offer nothing to the rest of the raid except some out of combat movement speed, which has no practical application in any raid setting. We offer no beneficial reason to be in a raid other than our damage and the fact that it is from range.Because of Bow/Arrow Mechanics we have less damage than other classes and combined with the lack of beneficial buffs which do not effect ranged dps Tier 8 has shown improvement to the other scout classes while it has shown stagnation in ours.Rangers are getting turned down for raids and guilds in favor of other (And Frankly, better suited.) classes which offer the same if not more damage per second and raid/group utility in the form of spells/debuffs/abilities.Please look into these issues and please keep us advised of what you are doing or that you have even read this and acknowledge it.----------------END OF STATMENT--------------------Hexus Lupis--The Ranger Community as a Whole-Special Thanks to: Lewz, Detterrent, Ranja, Cocytus, FuriCuri, Firza, Encantador, Balerius, MedstbhThanks to all of the Ranger Players that have continued to stick with this class through the good and bad times.

AMEN!

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Old 12-10-2007, 09:01 PM   #18
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Are any of the Developers going to even look at this post and acknowledge it's existence?  Most of this class are already convinced that you despise the ranger class in general, you are not doing much to sway that opinion.

 Have any of you even seen this?  I know I PM'd it to Aeralik and Fyreflyte with 0 response...

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Old 12-10-2007, 09:08 PM   #19
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The devs are too busy trying to come up with a new way of nerfing us to be able to post.Remember, a quiet dev, is a dangerous dev SMILEY
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:21 PM   #20
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
The devs are too busy trying to come up with a new way of nerfing us to be able to post.Remember, a quiet dev, is a dangerous dev SMILEY
Or as I always say on PvP - made by rogues for rogues.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:37 AM   #21
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Hexus wrote:

***********DISCLAIMER**************Before you read any further, know that this thread is specifically aimed at Rangers, WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING ANY OTHER CLASS BUT RANGERS.We are also NOT Discussing PVP, a Vast Majority of the Rangers at Large are PVE Rangers, so we are speaking for them here. A Majority of Rangers (PVP and PVE Rangers) believe that PVP and PVE should be seperated entirely, as they have resounding effects on each other, but the problems of a few rangers on PVP is greatly effecting the raid justifiability of many of the PVE Rangers.***********END DISCLAIMER***********For any Developers that read here, here is a summary of what we feel is wrong with the ranger class, our observations, and our thoughts. This is a Compilation of many observations and statements of the Ranger community and not a rant but a general synopsis of the things we feel need addressed.Statement: Rangers are supposed to be RANGE DPS. We have a total of 6 Melee Abilities that we can use other than Ranged attack and the majority (85%) of our AA lines are geared towards ranged combat.FIRST ISSUE: Bow/Arrow mechanics.As it stands right now, an arrow has to be the exact same level as a bow to be able to do 100% of it's possible damage. The reasoning for this was originally so each tier of tradeskilling would be needed with each tier of levels people went through. (I.E. you could not use level 10 arrows and effectively get the same amount of damage as level 40 arrows in auto attack. The Ranged Ability damage for our skills are set in stone, and the only thing that really effects those are skills which Add to Combat Art Damage and Critical Hits.)

In practice and implementation this was a fair and novel idea for players and tradeskillers alike. Somewhere along the line someone stopped following up and let this problem get out of hand. Rangers are the only class that relies on their Bow for 80%+ of their DPS, so of course failing to follow up on this would immediately effect the Ranger more than any other class.As it stands right now, the only way for a Ranger to get the damage their bow says they should be getting is to use an Arrow that is Exactly the Same Level as the bow. Mechanics-wise right now, it is more efficient and more damaging for a ranger to use a Tier 7 Fabled Bow with Tier 7 Ammunition than to even worry about upgrading to a Tier 8 Bow. Level 80 Woodworkers can only make level 67 Arrows, so there is not even an option of Tier 8 Ammunition to go with the bow. The Cart has been put before the Horse.Current Example of Tier 7 Raid Fabled Bow versus Tier 8 Raid Fabled Bow:Examples using /weapon command:No Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 805-3218Dragonhawk 841-3363As it should be, the Dragonhawk is a Tier 8 Fabled Bow and should be rated higher for perspective damage.Deathtoll summoned Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 869-3093Dragonhawk 784-2753The arrow mechanics come into play. Remember this is a raid-week lockout zone and a rather rare drop to get this ammunition in the first place.Crafted lvl 67 bodkin Ammunition:Rigid Scale Bow 892-3116Dragonhawk 807-2776This is the best Player-Crafted ammunition one can buy, level 67, and because of the mechanics you can get more damage with it from the Tier 7 Fabled Bow.Basically you downgrade your damage by getting the New Higher Damage Rating Bow because of the spread between Ammunition Level and Bow Level.

SECOND ISSUE: Spells and Items that fail to acknowledge the Ranger Class

I understand that Rangers are only 1 of the 6 scout archetype classes, but we are also the ONLY one (Once Again) who uses our BOW for 80%+ of our DPS and continues to be ignored when designing spells. Range and Melee should fall under the same buffs, however they do not.The List of Offending spells:Dirge: Cacaphony of Blades and Upgrades: The haste does stick to rangers, however there are no other benefits. This would be less DPS for a ranger than any other melee scout because our weapon delay is 9.0 while most other scouts use 4.0 and less delay weapons - We still get no benefit other than haste.Fury: Agitate: Does not work with ranged.Fae Fires: Does not work with ranged.Templar:Glory of Battle: Does not work with ranged.Holy Redoubt: Does not give ranged benefit.Sorceror:Phoenixblade and other damage spells: 0 Ranged Benefit.Guardian: Call to Siege: Does not give any ranged benefit.Items that do not give any beneficial effect when used with Ranged Attack are too many to list, and the ones that do are: Maestro's Flame (Contested x2 Epic Mob)Buckler of the Howler (5 Day Lockout Instanced x4 Epic Mob)We are starting to see the set class armor (Tier 8 Fabled) give +Ranged Double Attack and + Ranged Crit, this is a step in the right direction and for that we are thankful.Epic Quests for Ranger: 4 Epic Quest Lines, none of them useful for Ranged attack, and the one that was useful for Ranged attack was changed due to a "bug."

Imbued Rings: Strength ring not working at all with Ranged.

Coif of the Reet Knight: Not working at all with Ranged.I would complain more about Tier 7 Itemization however we are no longer in Tier 7 so I feel it is not a valid complaint. Thank you to the developers again who have listened and (it looks like beginning) to see what we were talking about with + ranged crit and + ranged double attack chance on items with + melee Crit and + melee double attack chance.THIRD ISSUE: Raid Usefulness Because of these changes, rangers have become less useful than the other scout classes in raids. We offer nothing to the rest of the raid except some out of combat movement speed, which has no practical application in any raid setting. We offer no beneficial reason to be in a raid other than our damage and the fact that it is from range.Because of Bow/Arrow Mechanics we have less damage than other classes and combined with the lack of beneficial buffs which do not effect ranged dps Tier 8 has shown improvement to the other scout classes while it has shown stagnation in ours.Rangers are getting turned down for raids and guilds in favor of other (And Frankly, better suited.) classes which offer the same if not more damage per second and raid/group utility in the form of spells/debuffs/abilities.Please look into these issues and please keep us advised of what you are doing or that you have even read this and acknowledge it.----------------END OF STATMENT--------------------Hexus Lupis--The Ranger Community as a Whole-Special Thanks to: Lewz, Detterrent, Ranja, Cocytus, FuriCuri, Firza, Encantador, Balerius, MedstbhThanks to all of the Ranger Players that have continued to stick with this class through the good and bad times.

Please clarify why PvP rangers should be considered second class to PvE rangers.  we do raid as well, and are suffering the same symptoms as PvE rangers as to raid viability.

We are a part of the ranger community you claim to represent.  As a PvP ranger, I'm not sure exactly what PvP rangers have done to hurt the total ranger community (since we have an entirely different ruleset), not to mention PvE rangers have been around a lot longer than PvP rangers. If anything, I'd be inclined to believe that Top PvE rangers might be more responsible for certain changes to the entire class than they might be comfortable with admitting.

Other than claiming PvP rangers are the redheaded stepchild of the ranger community, I agree with the rest of your post.

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Old 12-12-2007, 12:00 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

Please clarify why PvP rangers should be considered second class to PvE rangers.  we do raid as well, and are suffering the same symptoms as PvE rangers as to raid viability.

We are a part of the ranger community you claim to represent.  As a PvP ranger, I'm not sure exactly what PvP rangers have done to hurt the total ranger community (since we have an entirely different ruleset), not to mention PvE rangers have been around a lot longer than PvP rangers. If anything, I'd be inclined to believe that Top PvE rangers might be more responsible for certain changes to the entire class than they might be comfortable with admitting.

The line in italics above is of course correct, no question about it. Most or all the changes that affect all rangers are due to pve, nm the effects on pvp that it has. But it is an attitude towards pvp that we seemingly should have to live with.As regards the OP. I had high hopes for equipment in this expansion because it seemed so clear to me that rangers had been overlooked. What I've seen so far makes me think that I had misunderstood the situation. I know believe that they simply don't know the game mechanics pertaining to the ranger class very well. For example, there is no reason to halve ranged bonuses (da, crits) compared to melee at all, the damage bonus is the same. But I think they don't know that because of all the talk about long delay weapons.So I see little hope.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:53 PM   #23
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State of the Class

 When the class mod on EQ2Flames betrays to assass it should tell you something about the classes direction.

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Old 12-12-2007, 01:33 PM   #24
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Who hasn't at least had a passing though of this recently?  Has anyone gone a day online without seeing some weapons, armor or item of jewelry drop that isn't better suited to melee DPS than ranged?  And when things that drop for us they usually have crapy stats or more melee crits than ranged etc.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:40 PM   #25
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Krakelkrak wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

Please clarify why PvP rangers should be considered second class to PvE rangers.  we do raid as well, and are suffering the same symptoms as PvE rangers as to raid viability.

We are a part of the ranger community you claim to represent.  As a PvP ranger, I'm not sure exactly what PvP rangers have done to hurt the total ranger community (since we have an entirely different ruleset), not to mention PvE rangers have been around a lot longer than PvP rangers. If anything, I'd be inclined to believe that Top PvE rangers might be more responsible for certain changes to the entire class than they might be comfortable with admitting.

The line in italics above is of course correct, no question about it. Most or all the changes that affect all rangers are due to pve, nm the effects on pvp that it has. But it is an attitude towards pvp that we seemingly should have to live with.As regards the OP. I had high hopes for equipment in this expansion because it seemed so clear to me that rangers had been overlooked. What I've seen so far makes me think that I had misunderstood the situation. I know believe that they simply don't know the game mechanics pertaining to the ranger class very well. For example, there is no reason to halve ranged bonuses (da, crits) compared to melee at all, the damage bonus is the same. But I think they don't know that because of all the talk about long delay weapons.So I see little hope.
There seems to be a sort of doublethink and/or miscommunication going on at Sony with respect to ranger auto bow dps.  On the one hand, they tuned DW auto melee dps up a couple months ago seemingly to bring it in line with ranger auto bow dps (and they did accomplish that goal, intentionally or not, with that tune).  However, they are now, in RoK, penalizing rangers on gear bonuses for an auto attack dps advantage they no longer have, but which is still hyped up as real by many ignorant and/or asinine forum posters.  Thus, it seems that either the devs are now denying to themselves that this buff to DW dps ever occurred, or else the people in charge of the itemization have not been accurately informed of the true current bow vs. DW auto attack situation and are instead buying into the bs forum hype, which still (falsely) holds that auto bow dps is omg uber because bows hit twice as hard as melee weapons.  Based on comments I've seen from Fyreflyte, the correct explanation seems to be at least partially the latter.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:34 AM   #26
Shaulin Dolamite

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Clarrice wrote:
Who hasn't at least had a passing though of this recently?  Has anyone gone a day online without seeing some weapons, armor or item of jewelry drop that isn't better suited to melee DPS than ranged?  And when things that drop for us they usually have crapy stats or more melee crits than ranged etc.
Have seen this on 95% of scout drops, i wont roll because it has melee crit or melee double attack. When a piece finally drops thats good for me in has 5 range crit but zero str, the main stat is sta(shakes head).
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Old 12-14-2007, 05:40 PM   #27
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nine days since this topic was started, and not even a 'hi, kinda busy atm but I'm here for ya' post.

Do we even have a Ranger Dev anymore?

At this point I'd settle for a 'scout' Dev even.

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Old 12-14-2007, 11:56 PM   #28
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For such a well put post it amazes me that not even one DEV can't come in and say we hear you ranger's and were looking into somethings we might be able to change to better your class.  But like Bart says; it's been nine days and no post from any kind of developer.Lame SOE..in fact UBAH lame.
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:10 AM   #29
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Maybe they are busy working on the "at home" online service for Playstation3?
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:36 AM   #30
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they are probably at the christmas party with all the tech support people that will not be able to assist me until monday.

 great post, it's ridiculous that this has gone without comment from any devs

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