EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Class Discussion > Scout's Den > Ranger
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2006, 12:17 AM   #61
Mion da Peon

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 177
Default

Ok, you've guys have convienced me. here's my 2 cp
 
99 stack - one combine woodworker recipes
 
AND
 
25 % arrows reclaimed from a mob when it dies
 
I have reasons for choosing just these two solutions but am to lazy to type about them. Good luck getting this changed.
Mion da Peon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 02:49 AM   #62
nirav21

Loremaster
nirav21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 99
Default

How about a 2 min buff in which you get infinite arrows to use your Range CA with recast timer of 5 mins?

duration and recast timers can be adjusted as desired...

__________________
Nisox 70 Ranger on Nagafen

nirav21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 02:56 AM   #63
Hisvet

Loremaster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 100
Default

25% back from a mob assumes all the arrows hit.

We PAY TO MISS as well as do damage.  Not up for that idea.  I think what we have come up with is fine, and NOT AA dependent and NOT cruel to Woodworkers and does NOT mean an endless quiver and does NOT invalidate Ichorstrand/Baazkul.

Without using AAs 1/2 the timers on the normal summon arrow line.  Double the product per tier.  This quadruples output. And take away arrow consumption from CAs.

Ichorstrand and Baazkul are still sought and valuable for the dps increase of T8 ammo

To those that don't need the arrows they don't hit the button every 5 min. People still have to summon if they want them.

Woodworkers get specialty ammo lines with attacks like elemental procs, crit chance, haste or doubleshot applies to ALL ammo lines so everyone can use and buy them.  Make it less tedious and have them make ammo in batches of 100 so they are worthwhile to make.  Can compete with summoned because of unique use, has a wider base of customers, nothing vendor equivalent.  DPS parsing hungry rangers will pay for the edge, specialty arrows might be tactical for some mobs, etc.

Since ammo type on our CAs do not matter now there is no reason for using T[n] summoned arrows for it.  As long as you have arrows in your quiver it should see [ammo=1] and fire.

 

 

 

Hisvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 03:56 AM   #64
Jeris Nefz

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 94
Default

IMO, I think there should be more arrow summoning bows... they all don't have to have a high dr on them.  You can make them tier appropriate.  It's lame that you have to wait until you get to tier 7 and get lucky for a rare drop in one of the more difficult zones in the game.  I think there should be treasured bows that summon ammo. I think they should summon treasured ammo, maybe a stack every 15min.  They don't have to be the same as the Ichorstrand or Bazkul.  (Personal beef here.... why do FABLED bows summon LEGENDARY ammo?  Why not Fabled?  Does it not make sense that if the bow is fabled and has a component to summon ammo, the ammo should not be fabled too?)  Legendary bows can summon - you guessed it - legendary ammo.  Anyway, I think ammo summoning bows should not be reserved for the lucky high end, top tier raiders.  Those bows, of course, should be the best, but not the only ones.  Something should be done about arrow cost/availability.  Once I got my t7 ammo bow I have not had to buy another arrow.  Why should that privledge be reserved for a few lucky rangers?  If I hadn't been on that raid, I would have spent literally 100s of plat until another ammo summoning bow dropped.  Seems a bit skewed to me.
__________________
Jeris
Ranger on Everfrost
Jeris Nefz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 06:43 PM   #65
Gerdos

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 236
Default

Re: rangers saying they refuse to take Enhance: Reclaimed Arrows as it would sacrifice their DPS.
 
If you optimised your DPS AA lines/ranks, you would really only loose 2 AA points to Enchance: Caustic Poisons ... thats 4% (potential) bonus dmg for caustic poisons.
 
Very SMALL price to pay for some peace of mind and the ability to double your arrow production output.   A very feasible filler until you can get a DT bow.
 
 
 
Gerdos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 12:45 AM   #66
kartikeya

Loremaster
kartikeya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 387
Default



Gerdos wrote:
Re: rangers saying they refuse to take Enhance: Reclaimed Arrows as it would sacrifice their DPS.
 
If you optimised your DPS AA lines/ranks, you would really only loose 2 AA points to Enchance: Caustic Poisons ... thats 4% (potential) bonus dmg for caustic poisons.
 
Very SMALL price to pay for some peace of mind and the ability to double your arrow production output.   A very feasible filler until you can get a DT bow.
 
 
 


Perhaps, though 4% is still 4%, and given how often our poisons proc I'm not sure if that would be as negligible as it may seem.

However...I wouldn't care if the enhanced reclaimed arrows was an actual Endless Quiver...AA's should not, should not, should NOT be a patch job for a class's imbalances. I've seen it said over and over that the idea behind EQ2 AA's was to allow customization, but not be required for a class to function as they were in many cases in EQ1. It might sound very hard headed of me, but frankly, 1 AA or 50, it's an imbalance. No other class has to pay in either time or money for every single potential hit they make. Unless we get something back for that time/money spent, then it's imbalanced, and needs to be addressed. 1 plat or 1 copper, it's imbalanced.

Further, it's not like we have DPS to spare. We're scrambling to keep up with T2 classes that bring more utility and often more damage to a raid. Giving up 4% may seem a small thing, but when every bit counts, when you're already lagging behind, that 4% isn't so easy to sacrifice JUST so that you can spend less time/money on what you need just to use the vast majority of your CA's, when no other class in the game has such constrictions on their primary source of damage. If you don't have one of the arrow summoning bows, you are already desperately struggling to keep up, and having to shoot yourself in the foot just because you can't afford to drop four hours or two plat to use your bow is only going to put you further behind.

__________________
kartikeya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 02:51 AM   #67
Badaxe Ba

General
Badaxe Ba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Venekor
Posts: 568
Default

Gerdos wrote


Re: rangers saying they refuse to take Enhance: Reclaimed Arrows as it would sacrifice their DPS.
 
If you optimised your DPS AA lines/ranks, you would really only loose 2 AA points to Enchance: Caustic Poisons ... thats 4% (potential) bonus dmg for caustic poisons.
 
Very SMALL price to pay for some peace of mind and the ability to double your arrow production output.   A very feasible filler until you can get a DT bow.

I play a ranger on a pvp server.  Although my guild does some raiding, it isn't the emphasis.  So don't go preaching about fabled bows.  Different standards apply on a PvP server.  As for your utopian solution, everyone knows utopia doesn't exist.  Realities are what we are discussing.  Not pipedreams.  I joke all the time about how I kill the enemy by throwing my money at them.  And there are times, especially now that I've attained level 70, where I'm forced to not adventure due to a lack of arrows.  and FYI, I have numerous alts and tradeskillers, including a woodworker, and I make a ton more money selling totems.  Ammo is a money loser.  Currently, the only t7 ammo on the broker is twice the vendor cost.  Add to this the cost of poisons, and it is disheartening to say the least.  And you want me to give up DPS in order to 'ease' this burden.  I say make casters have to buy spell supplies, priests have to buy sacrificial materials,melee'rs have to have a chance of broken beyond reapairability of melee weapons/shields and then have to replace them.  these would be more 'realistic' changes IMO.
__________________
Badaxe Ba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 02:34 AM   #68
Gerdos

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 236
Default

Congratulations Badaxe/Harry .. you win TOOL of the week.

 

 

Gerdos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 03:41 AM   #69
Badaxe Ba

General
Badaxe Ba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Venekor
Posts: 568
Default

What the bleeding hell is TOOL of the week?
__________________
Badaxe Ba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 04:13 AM   #70
Nulad

General
Nulad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 638
Default


Gerdos wrote:
Re: rangers saying they refuse to take Enhance: Reclaimed Arrows as it would sacrifice their DPS.
 
If you optimised your DPS AA lines/ranks, you would really only loose 2 AA points to Enchance: Caustic Poisons ... thats 4% (potential) bonus dmg for caustic poisons.
 
Very SMALL price to pay for some peace of mind and the ability to double your arrow production output.   A very feasible filler until you can get a DT bow.
 
 
 

We shouldn't be forced into anything to offset a stupidly high cost that only our class has to deal with, it's unfair and game breaking for a lot of Rangers, and quit with the personal attacks too, please.
__________________
Nulad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 04:15 AM   #71
Scarrlette

Moderator
Scarrlette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 135
Default

Tool of the week = something that I don't wanna see again here or formal warnings for personal attacks will be issued. SMILEY
__________________
Scarrlette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 11:50 AM   #72
athitchcock

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 53
Default

Woodworker's being hurt by Rangers getting an endless quiver AA? No, not at all. The only player made arrows I have ever purchased were the slashing and crushing ones. And that was only after they took the slashing arrows of the NPC merchants. They just added 2 more classes to the arrow consumption group (pallies and SKs), now there are plenty of other classes that can purchase arrows from woodworkers. Besides the dmg type, there is no advantage to player made arrows. If I had endless quiver and it only gave me piercing arrows, I would still buy slashing / crushing arrows from woodworkers.My biggest problem with arrows is fairly simple. If I get a new sword, it has a dps rating and I'll pretty much do the same dps with it no matter what I do. If I get a new bow, it has a dps rating, but my dps will vary widely depending on what arrows I'm using. And if I run out of arrows, the dps rating is 0 and 75% of my CAs are useless.A fabled bow with tin arrows isn't very fabled.Gnaril
__________________
athitchcock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 12:01 PM   #73
wullailhuit

Loremaster
wullailhuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,007
Default

I vote let woodworkers make 100 arrows per combine and allow stacks of 500 arrows , but then I'm a woodworker who gave up making arrows as currently they cost more to make than I can sell them for and the time to make 2000 arrows is stupidly long.If it was 100 per combine I'd spend time woodworking and rangers would get cheap arrows.
__________________
wullailhuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 07:08 PM   #74
LoreLady

Loremaster
LoreLady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
Default


athitchcock wrote:Woodworker's being hurt by Rangers getting an endless quiver AA? No, not at all. The only player made arrows I have ever purchased were the slashing and crushing ones. And that was only after they took the slashing arrows of the NPC merchants. They just added 2 more classes to the arrow consumption group (pallies and SKs), now there are plenty of other classes that can purchase arrows from woodworkers. Besides the dmg type, there is no advantage to player made arrows. If I had endless quiver and it only gave me piercing arrows, I would still buy slashing / crushing arrows from woodworkers.My biggest problem with arrows is fairly simple. If I get a new sword, it has a dps rating and I'll pretty much do the same dps with it no matter what I do. If I get a new bow, it has a dps rating, but my dps will vary widely depending on what arrows I'm using. And if I run out of arrows, the dps rating is 0 and 75% of my CAs are useless.A fabled bow with tin arrows isn't very fabled.Gnaril

The problem is, woodworkers were changed and sony said.. I still see a high cost!!  http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a4&message.id=3633#M3633"While we can't control the prices of arrows that players make we can adjust the functionality of them.  Don't worry we won't be unbalancing the game by making player made ammo so unbalanced your considered "nerfed" unless your using rare t7 arrows.  Rare ammo/potions/poisons aren't ment to be used every time you go out adventuring they are supposed to be a perk that you might use on a raid boss or a hard encounter.  We deffinatly will be considering costs when making these items so we don't end up "nerfing" rangers"  - BeghnAnd as for the tool of the week, id love to see how many people stay around once they make every spell/art they use cost 7s.And quoting the bold, in the context that its in.. Its saying that arrows that woodworkers make should be a "perk" when fighting a hard boss etc.. But by there own words, its not a perk to spend that amount on arrows for a ranger, and its not a perk to buy playercrafted arrows as well.. Thus sony has missed the mark on both of these problems, and should be adressed and fixed immediatly..If I remember correctly, there was another post in stratics saying there was going to be something done..

Message Edited by LoreLady on 12-23-2006 06:11 AM

__________________
RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006
LoreLady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 03:07 AM   #75
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

ok im sry but i have never under stood the whole omg arrows cost money crap. even before i got my t8 ammo bow i farmed a couple hours a day made enough to buy my arrows and poisons to raid with. just my .02

 

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 03:27 AM   #76
Nulad

General
Nulad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 638
Default


jjlo69 wrote:

ok im sry but i have never under stood the whole omg arrows cost money crap. even before i got my t8 ammo bow i farmed a couple hours a day made enough to buy my arrows and poisons to raid with. just my .02


You just answered yourself, 'i farmed a couple hours a day made ehough to buy my arrows' No other class has to, no other class needs to, not everybody has a couple of hours spare a day to do nothing but farm to pay for arrows.
__________________
Nulad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 09:08 PM   #77
Harlequin

General
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 74
Default



Hisvet wrote:

25% back from a mob assumes all the arrows hit.

We PAY TO MISS as well as do damage.  Not up for that idea.  I think what we have come up with is fine, and NOT AA dependent and NOT cruel to Woodworkers and does NOT mean an endless quiver and does NOT invalidate Ichorstrand/Baazkul.

Without using AAs 1/2 the timers on the normal summon arrow line.  Double the product per tier.  This quadruples output. And take away arrow consumption from CAs.

Ichorstrand and Baazkul are still sought and valuable for the dps increase of T8 ammo

To those that don't need the arrows they don't hit the button every 5 min. People still have to summon if they want them.

Woodworkers get specialty ammo lines with attacks like elemental procs, crit chance, haste or doubleshot applies to ALL ammo lines so everyone can use and buy them.  Make it less tedious and have them make ammo in batches of 100 so they are worthwhile to make.  Can compete with summoned because of unique use, has a wider base of customers, nothing vendor equivalent.  DPS parsing hungry rangers will pay for the edge, specialty arrows might be tactical for some mobs, etc.

Since ammo type on our CAs do not matter now there is no reason for using T[n] summoned arrows for it.  As long as you have arrows in your quiver it should see [ammo=1] and fire.


I like these ideas across the board.  Heck, you could even have adornment recipes that would work on a stack of crafted arrows (any number in that single stack) to increase their desirability for certain situations.

As an aside, I am a bit puzzled by this "tool of the week" comment and the follow-up by the moderator.  I'm hoping that the moderator was being sarcastic, because I really didn't read the "so don't go preaching about fabled bows" comment as a "personal attack" compared to some of the other stuff I see on here.

Harlequin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2006, 09:30 PM   #78
Nulad

General
Nulad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 638
Default

Tool of the week is UK slang, it was a personal attack and not the first from the poster in question, one the others being directed at me. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but feeling the need to put it accross with derogatory remarks aimed at other posters just isn't on.
__________________
Nulad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 06:08 AM   #79
Lev

General
Lev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 171
Default

I kinda did a small test.. Not really on purpouse, but it just happend so that we 2 grouped Labs today (up until Vyemm)(this is pretty big for us, as we are not a "hardcore" raiding guild). This took aprox. 5 hours. I found it pretty extreme how much arrows I ended up spending. On a normal Labs run I usually spend about 1 quiver give or take, and of course this went alot slower and you can count alot arrows per mob SMILEYAnyways to add to our little numbersI spent about 5200-5500 arrows on this runit took about 5 hoursSo thats about 1k arrows an hour. which took me about 21 hours and 30 minutes to gather ( I only have an adept 3 and have yet to have enough APs to put into that branch). It took me about 4 times the time I spent using them to gather them. Thats 4/5 of gametime spent gathering, or a ratio of 1:4. This is acceptable IF, you craft on a regular basis or you own one of the DT bows. In all other scenarios you sacrifice something. I wont go into this too much again cause I have allready. But bottom line is, that this affects us more than some people realize, some may have alot of plat saved up and "farm" on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean this in effect does not hold you back compared to other classes. Cause it does.
Lev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 09:30 PM   #80
Teksun

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,048
Default

Every three raids = one lost master upgrade SMILEY
__________________




Nerf the Hobbits
Teksun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 10:23 PM   #81
LoreLady

Loremaster
LoreLady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
Default

Think of all those masters you would have if you dident spend money on arrows SMILEY
__________________
RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006
LoreLady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 10:46 PM   #82
Malokar

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 11
Default

Well, I've just spend near to 2 hours reading everyone's posts on here, and couldn't help but say something myself. I've been playing a ranger now for a while, and love the class. I'm not going to go into DPS, there's enough posts on that.
I've got Adept I of Reclaimed Arrows, hopefully I'll get a Master 1 soon (laugh). I hit the button every refresh (I have a buzzer set to go off) and have learned that I can't solo at all without buying arrows. I spend a lot of time LFG, which gives me some time to gather arrows. When I finally find a group, I do as much dmg as I can at range. As soon as I get to about half a quiver, I start acting like a Swashie, and get in close. Thankfully, I'm never in groups that parse, or I don't think I'd have much of a job.
 
I recently went on a small raid, big fun, first one for me. We took on a couple of Epics in and around Permafrost. I burned about 4k arrows.
So I did a little research, and EQ2Traders has this:
 
Recipe Book: woodworker essentials volume 63
Primary Component: raw adamantine(1)
•  Adamantine Cluster
Build Component 1: raw rosewood(1)
•  Rough Lumbered Rosewood
Build Component 2: raw hanging roots(1)
•  Hanging Root
Fuel Component 1: Acrylia Sandpaper(4)
 
Boyer Alexander Kerr in Qeynos Harbor sells these nice little Acrylia Sandpapers at 34s56c. Each.
Not taking into account how much the resources themselves might cost, that's 5s53c per arrow. (3456cx4/25=552.96c)
Current prices are about 5s on NPC vendors.
That's if you produce 25. It's 1s40c if you produce 99. (3456cx4/99=139.6c)
A reasonable price would then be 3-4 silver. Assuming 3 silver per arrow (and 3g per stack), that's 60g for 20 stacks of 99, enough to fill your nice lil' Dragonhide Leather Quiver.
That's also a whopping 20 combines for the woodworker, for a measley 32g profit.  

I personally like the idea of a player market. I'm a Carpenter, I make household goods, and some of them sell. I went carpenter because while I was a craftsman, I was making my own arrows, and fell asleep at the keyboard. (Mind you, this was with crafting at launch...kudos devs for fixing crafting!)
 
I agree with the others who don't want the Endless Quiver. Oh believe me, I'd love it. I dream of it nightly. But I also dream of a bow that stuns everything like the ghoulbane procs on undead, and lord knows the closest I'm getting is Rain Caller (please please don't nerf my Rain Caller...please?)
 
A reasonable solution has been posted, have CAs not use arrows. I love it, but from a roleplay perspective, it's a little far-fetched.
I do like the crafting idea though. Not hard to implement, but lets add a new recipie to the woodworker mix. Don't change the old, it'll only confuse things. 1 combine, 2-4 stacks of arrows. Make it a rare recipie, make it not so rare, I don't care. Maybe even make it use two to four times the fuel to produce two to four times the yield. By upping the fuel cost, but making it produce a full four stacks of 99 instead of a pathetic 25 arrows, woodworkers can keep up with the demand. The lowered player market price would butcher the NPC vendor market, giving woodworkers the edge.
To run some quick numbers:
 
5 combines @ 4 fuel (about 2k arrows) = 7g cost to woodworker. With 200% mark-up, 14g to restock. 7g profit for about 7 minutes of work isn't too shabby.
5 combines @ 16 fuel (about 2k arrows) = 30g cost to woodworker. 200% mark-up = 60g to restock. 30g profit for about 7 minutes of work.
 
I love the idea of crafting unique types of arrows. Arrows that put out extra taunts, arrows that deal frost or magic damage, arrows that stun the opponent, or snare them. Make those types of arrows difficult to craft. Make those combines that yield the stacks of 25 that sell for rediculous prices.
 
Spending AA points on something our class NEEDS to function doesn't seem right IMO. I had 35 AA before I spent a single point on the tree. Necromancers don't NEED Life-burn, but it makes them hela-effective. Wizards don't NEED Mana-burn, but it's an amazing tool.
Rangers need arrows. Period. Reduce the timer and increase the yield on Reclaimed Arrows? Yes. Please. It's a joke right now, those arrows last slightly longer than Arrow Rip. The Stream of Arrows line itself burns 20 arrows in 30 seconds. And I have to wait, what, 5 minutes to get 60 arrows when I have it Reclaimed Arrows (Master I)?
 
Should arrows come in stacks of 99 or 999, I don't know. Should there be quivers that hold 50 stacks? Once again, no idea.
 
I for one hate the fact my class costs me gobs of money. I am still trying to learn the purpose of our class, because as of yet, it isn't to easily out-dps Assassins, Wizards and the like. But even with the cost and the frustration, I love being a ranger. Devs, please help us enjoy a game we love, and a class we are willing to fight for.
 
Arien Longshot
62 Ranger/37 Carpenter
Mistmoore Server
Malokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 03:43 AM   #83
Jay

General
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,137
Default

Bumping for the rangers who are still dealing with this. I know you'll never read this, Lockeye, but you're losing players because of problems like these. I'm one of them.   SMILEY

I feel so bad for you guys. I hated this when I played Kaeros - in the couple months before I basically shelved EQ2, the arrow shortage was one of my biggest frustrations with playing a ranger. I was raiding regularly and burning through arrows like no tomorrow. I didn't have the time to sit in game and click a button every 10 minutes, and I don't craft or farm for gold.

I loved this class for over a year, but the ongoing frustrations that NO other class has to endure combined with the lackluster DPS (for most of us) and the utter lack of anything "special" about the class (in this game) just wore me down.

__________________
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 09:46 AM   #84
Deaudlus

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 127
Default

I have to agree with pretty much everything that has been said in this thread (And I dont even play a ranger).  If they are going to force you to spend that kinda cash to simply play your character your should be out parsing a assn by 1k easy.  Lord knows that if I suddenly had to spend 7s per attack on my swashie this game would get shelved in a heartbeat.  Woodworkers should be able to make specialty arrows by the 99 stack that are better then store bought, then they should drop the store bough price WAY down.  Arrows was the number one thing that stopped me from playing a ranger when I started EQ2 a few months ago.  I could live with the cost and the fact that rangers have no utility if they were absolute top top top top DPS but thats not the case.  It would be nice of SOE at least aknowleged that this is a problem and it is at least written on a sticky not stuck on someones monitor someplace.
Deaudlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 10:38 AM   #85
Stormhawk

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 121
Default

The only way to truly balance us against the other classes is to make arrows cost nothing.  The only way to do that is to implement Endless Quiver.  Since that will never happen, rangers will never be balanced.  I'd love to see a Dev try to actually justify why we are forced to pay for every attack we make.  An alternative solution in the mean time would be to add T8 summon to the Wurm Destroyer.Crafting is not the answer.  They don't make money off arrows now nor do they need to in the future.  HOWEVER, add Double Attack totems, DPS mod totems or something of the like, that would be a good cost vs. reward crafted item.
Stormhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 01:35 PM   #86
xandez

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,044
Default

yah, its sad that i can make nice DPS with my warden and still able to heal as a single healer in instances SMILEYand all that w/o paying 1c to do so. and with 90% treasured gear...  yah, not played my ranger too much lately because of that... SMILEYsad, but i've finally became so tired of the constant arrow and poison hoarding, the warden ezymode really did that for me... sniffAnd we are fine in DPS department? Rofl, maybe, but we still require GOOD gear (espec bow with T8 arrows) and we still have to use LOADS of arrows and LOADS of poisons to get the fine DPS. That is what i dont understand... every caster has the ability to do their DPS as "ranged" like we. Why do we have to be the ONLY class to pay to do it decently (ok, maybe assassins also and other poison users, but... you get teh point SMILEY)++Xan

Message Edited by xandez on 01-03-2007 10:37 AM

__________________
One can survive everything, nowadays, except death, and live down everything except a good reputation.

xandez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:16 AM   #87
Veyor

Loremaster
Veyor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19
Default

I don't post much, as seen by my post count. But, I have played EQ for about 6 years now (EQ1/EQ2) as a Ranger. The arrow thing really needs to be addressed now tho. I don't raid much but I do group alot and I can't keep up with my arrow/poison demand. The arow situation can even be a band-aid fix as other things in this game have been (see the last mitigation fix). Lower the cast time or increase the amount of arrows gathered by our ability. This shouldn't be that hard to do until the Dev's can figure out something more concrete. The Ranger community isn't asking for alot here. Just throw us a frickin bone, please!

 

Cregar Bledtree, 70 Ranger of Permafrost

Seeker of the ALL Mighty BEER

 

__________________
Creghar

Seeker of the ALL MIGHTY BEER!

Brigand of Permafrost

Veyor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 01:52 PM   #88
Monstage

Loremaster
Monstage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
Default

I have been playing a ranger as my main for almost 2 years now and have mainly been a solo/small group player, however, I am now getting to 70 and would like to try some raids and instances a bit more. The arrow issue was never really a problem for me before, but now I am starting to get recurring nightmares of my ranger reaching down to grab an arrow from the quiver only to find there are none left.This whole arrow thing has been grumbling on for ever now. How many of us does it take to say something before the devs actually give a rat's [Removed for Content] and do something about the situation?It would be nice to actually see a red name on the forum or at least SOME confirmation that the situation is being looked at. We can only assume that the arrow mechanic is 'working as intended'.I mean, just look at how many fixes have been put forward in this thread alone! Surely ONE of those would be good enough to solve the problem? I wonder if anybody at SOE even bothers to play a ranger since they are so blind to the problems this causes.In my opinion having stacks of arrows is ridiculous. I mean, how could you possibly carry 2000+ arrows on your back? You would need a bloody horse and cart to lug all those around! So if anybody says "you need arrows in the game for realism" they are talking out of their [Removed for Content].Instead we should have endless quivers that give certain types of damage such as piercing, crushing, slashing. And before anybody says that this would hurt the woodworkers since quivers are tailor made I wouldnt worry. On my server (Nektulos) there are hardly any player made arrows on the broker and they are just too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] expensive anyway so I dont think they will be too bothered (I am a woodworker btw and I never make arrows cause they are just a waste of time and effort).The funny thing is, people are actually giving up playing rangers and some have even given up EQ2 entirely due to this issue. They just can't afford or can't be bothered with having to worry about not having enough of the thing that allows them to use their combat arts, which is a problem no other classes face. They see the developers lack of interest and think "well if SOE can't be bothered then neither can I, I'm off to play WoW" or something along those lines.One thing that might help is to keep reporting this whole issue as a bug. Do a quick bug report every day with somrthing like "please fix the ranger arrow consumption issue" and just keep doin git till they get the message. If everybody does this every time they log in then it might just ring some alarm bells. I just did mine and it makes me feel a little better.There are numerous things that could be done to solve this problem, and it IS a problem. It's about time we got some help from SOE after all the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e they have flung at us.
Monstage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 08:58 PM   #89
EQ2Magroo

Loremaster
EQ2Magroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 756
Default

Having recently come back to the game it's a bit worrying to see that nothing has changed in all this time. How hard can it be to fix ?The problem for Rangers is simple, buying arrows costs way too much money to be practical and that's even if you ignore the "other classes don't have to spend money to DPS" debate. You simply can't run a Ranger using the "proper" arrows and have sufficient cash left to buy the other items in game e.g. horses, houses, armor, spells etc. OK, maybe 1 or 2 can,  but for 90% of Rangers this *is* a problem.The problem for Woodworkers is equally simple. There is no market for their arrows. Anyone using arrows to pull mobs can use cheap tin arrows. Those who actually need the good arrows can either buy them from a broker for much the same price, or has their own WW alt. The fact that making arrows takes so long means that it's pointless for WWs to even bother, it's just not a efficient use of their time.So, to solve the problem for Rangers, you need to make their arrows as free or cheap as possible, but this doesn't help the Woodworkers. So, a compromise is needed.How about:1. Treble the amount of gathered arrows from Ranger spell. It will help Rangers a lot, but won't totally solve the issue for them.2. Increase Woodworker combines to 25/50/75/100 when making arrows. A "pristine" combine gives 100 arrows. I think it's essential that the combine increases are made because it's so slow making arrows at the moment, even if there was a huge demand for them it would be impossible to fill. If the devs really want to stop the pain, increase them to 50/75/100/150, that would be ideal. 3. Increase arrow stack to 500 rather then 99.4. Ensure arrows from vendor are priced at 2x the average cost of a player made arrow. It's probably easist just to reduce the fuel requirement for arrows from 4 sandpaper to 1.The effect of this will be:1. To reduce the pain to Rangers (there will still be some, so don't worry we'll still be suffering like you intend).2. Woodworkers will not have to spend days making arrows that are used by just 1 player in a couple of hours. 3. Rangers can keep a large number of arrows in their quiver (not ideal from a "reality" perspective but endless quivers are not WW friendly)4. Players can still buy arrows from vendors if they like, but player made arrows would be cheaper and better.I personally can't see any downside to these changes, it just needs a bit of effort on SOEs part to implement them. Oh, and don't forget to update the various Writs that need arrows making. Generally they are after 75 arrows, so just change them to 3 x whatever the new pristine combine value is and problem solved.Edit to add: Making the arrows for just 1 player to use for just 1 day is enough to level my WW one whole level even without vitality. You going to tell me that's working as intended ? Actually I should shut up, they'll probably nerf arrow XP down to zero.

Message Edited by EQ2Magroo on 01-05-2007 08:02 AM

EQ2Magroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 10:13 PM   #90
Aegnar

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 28
Default

Alright, here is my idea for a solution.... keep in mindi  have not read EVERY post in this thread, but i read a bunch of em.. If this has been suggested already, sorry! lol.  The solution is going to have to be multi-tiered, because i don't think there is a single quick-fix that will fix the three issues here: Arrow consumption being cost prohibitave, woodworkers not getting skrewed, and dps not being on par with other T1 classes.  Here we go.......

 

1) Add Endless Quiver (I know, i know bear with me....)

-Works only with one tier down from your highest available tier of arrows.  (Example: at 70, T8 arrows are available... at level 70 EQ would only work with T7 arrows, at 80 would only work with T8, at 20 would only work with T2, etc)

-Requires one arrow of the type you want to use in your ammo slot (a-la-eq1)

-End ability of one of the EoF lines

2) Added woodworker arrows:

a) Special arrows at level x9 of each tier (ie 29,39,49,59,69) that give a variety of effects.  This should include:

- +Elemental dmg proc

- stun (short duration) proc

- stiffle (short duration) proc

- interupt (less proc chance than stun/stiffle but interupts epics too) proc

-+ranged crit chance

These arrows should be expensive to craft.  I mean expensive.  I'm talking 5 wood rare, 5 metal rare, 100 fuel.  Making these arrows would allow woodworkers to turn maybe 2-5p profit per one they make.  Yes, that would mean most rangers would have to fork out a lot of rares to get their high end arrows to use with EQ... but they would not be expendable, and the truth is that most of us spend most of our time at the highest tier

b) Simple arrows of the next tier at level 69 as well (ie making a T8 arrow at 69) 

-These arrows should do more damage than the mastercrafted of the previous tier, even including proc damage

-These arrows should be made with common components, and end up costing the crafter approximately [(tier level)/2] * 1 silver.  Ie T7 would cost about 3.5 silver to make.  I suggest stacks of 200 to make crafters not get carpal tunnel.

 

Ok, so how does this solve the problem?

The answer is that it forces rangers to make decisions.  If you are comfortable spending a lot of money to get the highest damage arrows, that is still available to you, at about the same price as you are paying now but allows woodworkers to make a decent living making them.  If you want to spend less money in the long run, you can invest in a few, or all, of the mastercrafted arrows of the tier down from you.  They are expensive to make, but if you gather the rares yourself, or save up, they will save you a lot of money in the long run.  On top of that, it allows the market to decide what the woodworker's time is worth to make such a complicated recipee.  The availablitiy of higher damage arrows that are expendable, or arrows with certain procs for vulnerabilities, arrows with status effects, etc gives the rangers a bit higher dps OR some added utility. 

Would it be an effort to add in?  Of course it would.  Do i think it'll happen?  Not really.... though i do have some faith that SOE does WANT balance, i just do't think they have a good solution.  Keep in mind this also gives rangers a class defining mastery of the ranged arts.  Although other classes (most fighers, most scouts) use bows, and arrows to limited effect, they would not have access to the proccing arrows like rangers would.

What do you guys think?

Aegnar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:24 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.