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Old 07-29-2006, 02:18 AM   #1
LoreLady

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I am "generally" around 1100-1400 on raids..I will post my parsings on this sundays HoS raid if enough people show.. Im not asking for high, not asking for lows... Just where you stand as rangers on raids.. Maybe people can identify themselves if they are falling short - where and why. We might as well be the best we can be even if we are in a sad state.
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:06 AM   #2
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LoreLady wrote:
I am "generally" around 1100-1400 on raids..I will post my parsings on this sundays HoS raid if enough people show.. Im not asking for high, not asking for lows... Just where you stand as rangers on raids.. Maybe people can identify themselves if they are falling short - where and why. We might as well be the best we can be even if we are in a sad state.




The problem with posting a parse from one zone is that not every zone's mobs have the same mitigation, certain zones have more multiple mobs, etc.  For example, I generally parse noticeably higher in Labs when we raid Vyemm than I do in HoS.  We also all know that the makeup of the group a ranger is in makes a huge difference.

That's why I don't post individual parses (that plus certain guild constraints).  I have parsed many raids over time, however.   And so I am (and have been for some time) generally comfortable posting that my dps is, on average, about 1250 dps (although it's been a few months since I did the analysis, not too much about my character has changed).  Now certainly it's higher in some raid zones, a bit lower in others, and fight to fight it varies.  But 1250 dps is a pretty good point estimate for me.  If anything, it might be a tad higher.

As a comparison, my guild's assassins average 1800-1900 dps or so.  Swashbucklers, brigands, necros, and summoners about 1600-1700 or so.  Monks about 1400-1500.

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Old 07-29-2006, 03:56 AM   #3
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you cant compare dps very accurately. the more overall dps your guild has (aka the better equipped and skilled they are), the more you are going to do.
faster the mob dies the more dps you do.  the more dps your guild has the faster the mob dies.  YaY.  Nevertheless you can still compare yourselves to the other classes in your guild dps wise, considering you dont have any slackers / unskilled people that are there for their...personality SMILEY

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Old 07-29-2006, 04:24 AM   #4
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Despite the perception issues that have persisted since the Ranger balance changes to their DPS rankings, Rangers are performing very well in DPS across all categories. I constantly analyze data between solo, groups and raids of various sizes across all classes, and Rangers are performing between ranks 1-4 in DPS in all size categories, with an average ranking of 2.2 (just slightly above average T1 DPS).

In my experience as a player that groups and raids with a few raid equipped Rangers, I haven't seen anything to indicate from their parsers that Rangers would be deficient in producing anything short of the top ranking DPS numbers for their group or raid, and it reflects what I see in Ranger serverwide performance across all player categories.

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:02 AM   #5
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Sorry Lockeye SMILEY  Those of us playing the class dont see the same rosy picture.  I am usually 6th in parses behind conjurers, brigands, swashbucklers, and of course assassins.  My rank for the night depends on how many assassins are on.
 
That whooshing sound is rangers betraying to assassins!
 
 
(Edited for spelling)

Message Edited by USAFJeeper on 07-28-2006 08:05 PM

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:11 AM   #6
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Lockeye your guild make-up might be a bit different to other guilds. In our guild we have a good balance of DPS classes. Parses go something like this..Assasin -> Assasin -> Conjuror/Necro -> Swashbuckler -> Ranger -> Ranger -> (...Bruiser/Zerker/Sorcerer follows)Now of course gear and spell quality come to play especially as Fabled DW for Assassins are VERY easy to come by compared to Fabled Bows, but very very rarely does the Ranger come top of our DPS parses.

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:20 AM   #7
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Lockeye wrote:

Despite the perception issues that have persisted since the Ranger balance changes to their DPS rankings, Rangers are performing very well in DPS across all categories. I constantly analyze data between solo, groups and raids of various sizes across all classes, and Rangers are performing between ranks 1-4 in DPS in all size categories, with an average ranking of 2.2 (just slightly above average T1 DPS).

In my experience as a player that groups and raids with a few raid equipped Rangers, I haven't seen anything to indicate from their parsers that Rangers would be deficient in producing anything short of the top ranking DPS numbers for their group or raid, and it reflects what I see in Ranger serverwide performance across all player categories.




I assume by this statement, that your planning to lower rogue and summoner damage since they parse above Rangers all the time?

By my ranking Rogues are ranking 3.1 and summoners a 4.0. If "very well" means below Rogues, Summoners, Wizards, and Assasins consistently then yeah I guess they are balanced.

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:26 AM   #8
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Regardless of what I actually observe in game as a player, the server wide parses show that Rangers are performing where they should be. In none of the categories does a Conjurer, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, or Brigand ever outrank the Ranger's DPS averages. What I observe in game also happens to reflect what the data shows, but not every individual Ranger's performance will reflect the data. I know it may not be what some of you may want to hear, but I'm going by raw data.

Message Edited by Lockeye on 07-28-2006 06:28 PM

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:26 AM   #9
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Wow!

/em blinks

Just... Wow.

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:29 AM   #10
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CrazedMutha wrote:
Lockeye your guild make-up might be a bit different to other guilds. In our guild we have a good balance of DPS classes. Parses go something like this..

Assasin -> Assasin -> Conjuror/Necro -> Swashbuckler -> Ranger -> Ranger -> (...Bruiser/Zerker/Sorcerer follows)

Now of course gear and spell quality come to play especially as Fabled DW for Assassins are VERY easy to come by compared to Fabled Bows, but very very rarely does the Ranger come top of our DPS parses.

Message Edited by CrazedMutha on 07-28-2006 06:12 PM



THis is a true statment Crazed.  All teh assassins et al I am with have the very good weapons while I am stuck on Grizz.  I think gear is a lot as far as weapons and DPS go.

 

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:35 AM   #11
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Lockeye wrote:
Regardless of what I actually observe in game as a player, the server wide parses show that Rangers are performing where they should be. In none of the categories does a Conjurer, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, or Brigand ever outrank the Ranger's DPS averages. What I observe in game also happens to reflect what the data shows, but not every individual Ranger's performance will reflect the data. I know it may not be what some of you may want to hear, but I'm going by raw data.

Message Edited by Lockeye on 07-28-2006 06:28 PM


Well raw data is fun and all, but I'm telling you first-hand that our most active player is an experienced, well-equipped Ranger, and all 3 of our active Assasins absolutely destroy him in terms of DPS every single fight, without fail. The other two rangers we have barely get a look in above our Warriors and Brawlers.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:36 AM   #12
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meh, forget it.  Posting when irritated doesn't bring anything good.

Message Edited by Tseri on 07-28-2006 06:37 PM

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:36 AM   #13
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Lockeye wrote:
Regardless of what I actually observe in game as a player, the server wide parses show that Rangers are performing where they should be. In none of the categories does a Conjurer, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, or Brigand ever outrank the Ranger's DPS averages. What I observe in game also happens to reflect what the data shows, but not every individual Ranger's performance will reflect the data. I know it may not be what some of you may want to hear, but I'm going by raw data.

Message Edited by Lockeye on 07-28-2006 06:28 PM



Thanks for the reply, I guess I'll have to talk to my guildies about fabricating the parses and magically making it to the top every time.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:38 AM   #14
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CrazedMutha wrote:
Lockeye your guild make-up might be a bit different to other guilds. In our guild we have a good balance of DPS classes. Parses go something like this..Assasin -> Assasin -> Conjuror/Necro -> Swashbuckler -> Ranger -> Ranger -> (...Bruiser/Zerker/Sorcerer follows)Now of course gear and spell quality come to play especially as Fabled DW for Assassins are VERY easy to come by compared to Fabled Bows, but very very rarely does the Ranger come top of our DPS parses.

My guild parses a bit different:Conjuror->Necro->Assassin->Wizard->RangerWe have 2 conjurors and 2 necros, 2 wizards, a couple Rangers.  The Swash is new, but I don't think he's providing competition yet, but  I have NEVER been able to beat a swash in DPS in a group, even when he was the tank for the group.  The only time (as a Wizard) that I got CLOSE was when Fusion, FreehandSorcery and IceNova were both up.  And that wasn't enough, even when chain casting.It's very clear that class balance is messed up.  I know the Producer stated he has no problems with Summoners doing top DPS, but I'm sorry, he obviously doesn't understand WHY they shouldn't.  They're loaded with advantages that aren't offset by disadvantages.  Split aggro, double mana/hp pool, hearts/shards, COH, rezzes, top DPS every raid, etc...  When T2 classes are doing the Top DPS raid after raid over all the T1 classes, it should be pretty clear there are balancing issues.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:44 AM   #15
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ha... ya kidding?oh well.. I guess that's why we aren't game designers :smileyindifferent:
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:46 AM   #16
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If you want to observe a rangers average dps then observe a top ww guilds raids and check their rangers dps. 
(reason being that the other dps classes wont suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], therefore NOT falsely glorifying the rangers dps) 
Dont observe a guild where the scouts aa and go afk.  Or the summoner forgets to press pet attack.
Kthx. 
 
Btw, no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are any of those classes going to outdamage a ranger solo. 
BURST DAMAGE.
MORE DPS in short encounters. most of the rangers worthwhile abilities are on a 1 minute timer.
Ranger vs down arrow mob.  It dies before it reaches the ranger. 2 second life.  It takes longer for any other class to kill it.
Same thing in groups(because heroic mobs had their hp decreased) yaay for remembering your own updates. +50 dkp
As long as the ranger gets off focus fire, devit,triple,amazing, that ranger is fine if the mob dies in the next few seconds.  This is excluding a veiled shot at the beginning of the fight before you cast focus fire.  Or sniper shot. 
 
Everyone remember that the devs only test with ap3 spells and bad gear.
 

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Old 07-29-2006, 05:53 AM   #17
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    I can give you entire zone parses where in every single fight the conj, swash, and brigand matched or did significantly more dps than the ranger.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:54 AM   #18
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It is a bit of a shock to find out I suck, I must admit. In my defense, I was busy buffing and debuffing everyone and everything...Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:58 AM   #19
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Lockeye wrote:
Regardless of what I actually observe in game as a player, the server wide parses show that Rangers are performing where they should be. In none of the categories does a Conjurer, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, or Brigand ever outrank the Ranger's DPS averages. What I observe in game also happens to reflect what the data shows, but not every individual Ranger's performance will reflect the data. I know it may not be what some of you may want to hear, but I'm going by raw data.

Message Edited by Lockeye on 07-28-2006 06:28 PM


I'm sorry but our brigs are doing 1.7 to 2.2 easly and ranger 1.2-1.7, haha i see most brigs even beatign sorc.  Unless you are looking at a handful of the very best rangers on all the servers your numbers cant be right.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:58 AM   #20
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Any ranger doing the top dps in their guild needs to leave that guild or help that guild realize that every summoner and rogue on that raid and in that guild sucks. /hint dev, try again. 
 
Rofl btw.  Who named the t7 ranger skills [Removed for Content].
Natural Selection ----> Selection(rofl)
 
you might as well name it RangerAEattack.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:59 AM   #21
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Come on Guys, it's obvious Lockeye is able to observe some really uber rangers.

We all just suck and should just Learn2 Play.

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Old 07-29-2006, 06:03 AM   #22
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Lockeye wrote:
 In none of the categories does a Conjurer, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, or Brigand ever outrank the Ranger's DPS averages.

LOL, Conjurers, Necromancers, Swashbuckler's and Brigands absolutely obliterate Ranger DPS all the time. If youre not seeing this in your data then you need to fix your data collection tools because theyre a bit broken. Brig damage is pretty good and Swash damage is astronomical by comparison. I'm talking raid equipped toons here, in both raid and group situations. My ranger can still do some amazing stuff, i can still solo heroics with my ranger (though with much greater effort than before). However my ranger does not come anywhere close to a swash or brig in terms of raw damage yet offers a group very little in exchange for it. Even assassins get apply poison and aggro transfer, a luxury that rangers do not receive. Yeah rangers get what? Two debuffs? Name a class that doesnt get at least 2 debuffs of some kind though.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:07 AM   #23
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Lockeye if there is anything i want you to read its this.
 
A ranger will only get the top dps or average dps on a raid if the other members on that raid who are summoners and rogues arent at least doing average dps.  This means that they are doing less than what they could be doing.  If you assume that a top ww guild is going to have every member be able to fill out their class role to a point then you can assume that any information gained from them will be very near to accurate. 
 
I want damage i want dps Meow Mix Meow Mix please deliver.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:07 AM   #24
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arkkon wrote:
If you want to observe a rangers average dps then observe a top ww guilds raids and check their rangers dps. 
 


I would gladly post parses of our rangers, like I post parses of myself, except my guild got rid of all our rangers when we realized they couldn't do the dps of a rogue or summoner, and didn't have the utility either.  I'm not sure if I'm in a top guild or not though...
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:11 AM   #25
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Do you notice in the first post he says first hand expierence in raiding, grouping, and soloing he said everything was fine. However in the second post, it was raw data. Is it me or is he contradicting himself? 1st thing: since when are devs allowed to raid? I was fairly certian they weren't allowed in guilds ( incidents with npu accused of having a gm ? ) Which guild are you giving an unfair advantage to in killing with? obviously it must have players that do not know how to optimize their class in it if a ranger is always going to have potential to be #1. Or was your first hand raid encounters off pick up nonsense with people not knowing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they're doing. 2nd thing: When you analize this "raw data" what are you doing? looking at the dps from performing CA's, or looking at the dmg numbers on the CA's...they're two completely different things... 3rd thing: ask the majority of high end raiding guilds... NONE OF THEM will ever say a ranger would straight up out dps a conjurer ever ever ever ever ever ( on some occasions they may, but not 100% like your saying a ranger has the potential to) 4th thing: If rangers and assassins are so equal as you state, how come many rangers are betraying to assassins, and hardly anyone has ever heard of an assassin betraying to a ranger? Don't give me that playstyle bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] excuse either. 5th thing: If you, lockeye, think every ranger sucks and thats why their not desired in raids, not because something is unbalanced. Please tell me I suck, and ban me from the forums right now, please
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:13 AM   #26
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Here is something else you may not want to hear. If you rangers are constantly getting out dps'd by that many classes, you plain suck. I am sick and tired of rangers whining into oblivion until you get classes nerfed. OMG, please stop with the whining. This board is sick and pathetic. If you guys want to learn how to be on top of your parses please shoot me a tell in game, I will hook you up with some good rangers who know how to play there class, in game instead of on the boards whining about it. Be good boys and girls.... I'll be back in a little bit to check on ya and change your diapers and put you down for a nap.Oh and as an FYI...... The DPS in our guild is constantly like this... in the top 4 in no particular order because it is extremely situational. Conjurors/Necros......Rangers......Berserkers......and Wizards/Warlocks.Our bruiser pulls and sets traps alot so is dead during fights a ton, so I do not have any proof to tell you about there DPS.

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Old 07-29-2006, 06:14 AM   #27
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In the high end raiding world, here are the DPS tiers;
 
Conjurer
Assassin
Rogues/Necro
Bruisers
Wizard/Warlock/RANGER
Monks
 
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:17 AM   #28
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Badd Boy wrote:Here is something else you may not want to hear. If you rangers are constantly getting out dps'd by that many classes, you plain suck. I am sick and tired orangers whining into oblivion until you get classes nerfed. OMG, please stop with the whining. This board is sick and pathetic. If you guys want to learn how to be on top of your parses please shoot me a tell in game, I will hook you up with some good rangers who know how to play there class, in game instead of on the boards whining about it. Be good boys and girls.... I'll be back in a little bit to check on ya and change your diapers and put you down for a nap.

Just because people you play with suck, that make your ranger look good, doesn't mean a class on the high end is fine. k thx
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:19 AM   #29
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Naku9 wrote:


Badd Boy wrote:
Here is something else you may not want to hear. If you rangers are constantly getting out dps'd by that many classes, you plain suck. I am sick and tired orangers whining into oblivion until you get classes nerfed. OMG, please stop with the whining. This board is sick and pathetic. If you guys want to learn how to be on top of your parses please shoot me a tell in game, I will hook you up with some good rangers who know how to play there class, in game instead of on the boards whining about it. Be good boys and girls.... I'll be back in a little bit to check on ya and change your diapers and put you down for a nap.


Just because people you play with suck, that make your ranger look good, doesn't mean a class on the high end is fine. k thx




Exactly what I was going to say!
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:19 AM   #30
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Naku9 wrote:


Badd Boy wrote:
Here is something else you may not want to hear. If you rangers are constantly getting out dps'd by that many classes, you plain suck. I am sick and tired orangers whining into oblivion until you get classes nerfed. OMG, please stop with the whining. This board is sick and pathetic. If you guys want to learn how to be on top of your parses please shoot me a tell in game, I will hook you up with some good rangers who know how to play there class, in game instead of on the boards whining about it. Be good boys and girls.... I'll be back in a little bit to check on ya and change your diapers and put you down for a nap.


Just because people you play with suck, that make your ranger look good, doesn't mean a class on the high end is fine. k thx



I didn't say it but I agree with it.  Sorry man, ranger dps =/= assassin dps, or anywhere close.
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