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Old 06-14-2006, 07:55 AM   #1
Lotusd

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Was reading all the board and seems rangers have been moved to t2-t3?? is that correct?
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:50 AM   #2
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with upgrading your gear, your bow, your CA's, your debuffs, using right teir ammo, good poisons,  you bet we can be...
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:56 AM   #3
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No.  After LU24 we will still not be, but our dps not bad either.  The bad part is we bring nothing else to the table so the difference has more impact than it might otherwise.

There are no more "damage" tiers (according to SOE) so now we are just an underpowered, expensive pure damage class.  That being said, we're in sniffing distance of the top just not at the top.

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Old 06-14-2006, 08:29 PM   #4
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i average anywhere from 900-1500dps in a raid setting.  On dps parse with top 8 being listed i've hit #1 a few times, 2-3 pretty consistently.    It all depends on taking advantage of your spells and AA's. 
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:11 PM   #5
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1500 dps?? You must have a bug in your parser. Even the fully buffed and fabled/masters Assassins in my guild dont get that kind of raid DPS unless it is a 3s fight.
 
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:21 PM   #6
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Debuffs, my guild is very good at debuffin the mob so i hit harder.  With criticals, on just regular Auto-attack, i can hit on average of 3-3.5k,   + procs, plus poisons,  Do a CA/AA attack cycle and you got a constant stream of damage poppin out.
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:34 PM   #7
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EDIT: don't feel like having to argue

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Old 06-14-2006, 09:58 PM   #8
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jrisley69 wrote:
i average anywhere from 900-1500dps in a raid setting.  On dps parse with top 8 being listed i've hit #1 a few times, 2-3 pretty consistently.    It all depends on taking advantage of your spells and AA's. 



Thats not t1 dps sorry man......... Well at least in disso its not.

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Old 06-14-2006, 10:42 PM   #9
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And that's why Disso has no love for rangers. Not knockin it, they're just basing their requirements purely on practical effectiveness, and due to current mechanics, rangers cannot achieve the level of DPS that other so-called T1 classes can.

Which is fine by me, but I'm not a hardcore raider and never will be. I do feel bad for ppl who are, and have ended up fighting a battle they can't win. (Like you, Axkiva... it must suck to stick your chosen class in the backseat b/c of game changes.)

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Old 06-14-2006, 11:26 PM   #10
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Before LU24:T0: Conjurors, NecromancersT1: Assassins, Wizards, Brigands, SwashbucklersT2: Warlocks, RangersAfter LU24:We shall see.

Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 06-15-2006 06:26 AM

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Old 06-14-2006, 11:43 PM   #11
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900-1500 dps is not T1.  I'm in that range (raid buffed self/debuffed mobs) and many classes can beat that.  But we'll see after LU24, it might change the landscape some.
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:47 PM   #12
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Here is something for you rangers. I bring you laughter.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=24837#M24837Spoken like a true forum wizard.

Straylight wrote:I think with the LU24 downgrade of Conj, we will do even better on the parses. Rangers are a bit overpowered in my opinion, but other than that, I think Wizard DPS is right where it should be right now in terms of class balance.

Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 06-15-2006 06:48 AM

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Old 06-14-2006, 11:51 PM   #13
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SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:
Before LU24:

T0: Conjurors, Necromancers

T1: Assassins, Wizards, Brigands, Swashbucklers

T2: Warlocks, Rangers

After LU24:

We shall see.


Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 06-15-2006 06:26 AM



Well played zerker and bruiser will own well played warlocks and rangers also.

 

Jay its all good man i made the choice myself and i dont regret it.  I like playing zerker allot.  Its so much easier to go out and have fun in a non raid situation as a zerker i cant even begin to explain it. 

My biggest factor was that i went from being very important in the outcome to the raid ie(poets palace return without a ring) to everyone asking what purpose a ranger has in a raid setting now.  We should be in the same line as an assassin there shouldnt be as big of gap as there is.  I just dislike what they have done to the class and the lack of trying to improve it. 

I think back to t5! There we werent ubber dps!  However we were important as most of the contested fights were joust fights.  While everyone was runing in and out i was drilling it safely outside the ae.  IMHO what a ranger should be!  Why in the hell would any type of archer be an archer if they had to run in and hit someone with a sword.  Think about how archers are portrayed in like every movie you've seen, none of them even carry a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sword SMILEY

I'd like an unarmed double attack aa.  Or a % of ranged dmg boost if both melee weapons are unequiped.  I would like the ranger to.......... o....... i.... dont know BE RANGED SMILEY  So not only am i disapointed in the way rangers work atm but everyone knows if you dont sit in the sweet spot and use your melee you wont stay up with the parse either and imo thats not a ranger its a highbred type of melee/ranged fighter which i wanted to be a ranger. 

The biggest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i have is the fact that i dont even think rangers are the no.1 ranged dps class lol.  The double attack works with ranged guys.  A rogue, bard, warrior, brawler can all hit with two arrows or axes while your hitting with one.  If we could actually get a rogue to answer truthfully i think you'll find a rogue with the bow from tarinax will do about 1500-1700 solo target auto attack ranged dps!!!!  I auto attack ranged on my zerker with hammers for 800-1300 useing the legendary item from the claymore line.  I love having a ranger and i wont betray or anything but i will continue to say they are a disapointment to me and that they need a revamp.

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Old 06-14-2006, 11:54 PM   #14
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Lexani- wrote:

Well played zerker and bruiser will own well played warlocks and rangers also.


Yes, I was referring to the scout and mage dps classes though but that is undoubtedly true. They can definitely get up there depending on the situation and/or group setup - also monks.
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:57 PM   #15
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All of the problems could be fixed with a decent double-attack AA line..   So why do more utility-oriented scout and tank classes get them, but we pure damage class predators don't...
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:34 AM   #16
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SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:
Here is something for you rangers. I bring you laughter.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=24837#M24837

Spoken like a true forum wizard.



Straylight wrote:

I think with the LU24 downgrade of Conj, we will do even better on the parses. Rangers are a bit overpowered in my opinion, but other than that, I think Wizard DPS is right where it should be right now in terms of class balance.


Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 06-15-2006 06:48 AM


Jebus. Why am I not surprised to see this coming from the wizard forum?

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Old 06-15-2006, 12:40 AM   #17
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Jay42 wrote:

Jebus. Why am I not surprised to see this coming from the wizard forum?


meh

I read the entire thread and that was the only post like that in the entire string.  One post taken out of context

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Old 06-15-2006, 12:55 AM   #18
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He means he is not surprised wizards are complaining other classes are better than them. Now, rangers are no way overpowered but yet you still get a wizard saying they are. That is still one too many. Saying they do T1 dps and saying they are overpowered are two very different things. Now it's not about the rest of them also saying rangers are overpowered, the rest of them are complaining about other classes, complaring themselves to wardens, comparing their roots etc etc. Basically you will get wizards complaining about any area they are not the best at whether it is roots or dps, and compare it to another class where that certain area is better than the wizard. Which is also why you see threads like 'we are not no1 dps?' and 'another dps question and complaint'. The list goes on.
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:39 AM   #19
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Lets not forget that the majority of buff proc's ONLY work on MELEE.

That four out of the five AA lines are biased toward MELEE.

The final Int AA which is suppose to be a poison only works on MELEE.

The Sta AA that does a AE double attack only hits mobs in MELEE range.

That near every bow is a shadow compared to the two handers.

That no signature quest EVER offers a Bow as a reward.

 

I could go on but I think you get the idea.  SOE doesn't give a crap about rangers and have made the game for all the melee classes.

 

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Old 06-15-2006, 01:43 AM   #20
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SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:
He means he is not surprised wizards are complaining other classes are better than them. Now, rangers are no way overpowered but yet you still get a wizard saying they are. That is still one too many. Saying they do T1 dps and saying they are overpowered are two very different things. Now it's not about the rest of them also saying rangers are overpowered, the rest of them are complaining about other classes, complaring themselves to wardens, comparing their roots etc etc. Basically you will get wizards complaining about any area they are not the best at whether it is roots or dps, and compare it to another class where that certain area is better than the wizard. Which is also why you see threads like 'we are not no1 dps?' and 'another dps question and complaint'. The list goes on.



would that qualify you as a troll...mmm yes.

This was an intelligent reaction to your trolling by Prandtl:

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Prandtl wrote:

meh

I read the entire thread and that was the only post like that in the entire string.  One post taken out of context

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What ever preconcived notions you have about wizards (which seems to roll up every forum wizard) is just plain stupid.

I could troll every class forum and find people making comparisons against other classes, does that make the entire class a bunch of whiners.  no it doesn't.  I'm tired of people like you looking for reasons to start a flame war or put in thier 2 cents worth by saying *stop whining*

A guildie of mine plays a ranger and I can understand some of the issues facing the ranger class.  You dont hear me screaming for ranger nerfs now do you.  So please the next time you want to use *forum wizards* or the wizard community, or just saying wizards in general with relation to rangers your referring to me and that I take offense to.

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Old 06-15-2006, 02:06 AM   #21
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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

So please the next time you want to use *forum wizards* or the wizard community, or just saying wizards in general with relation to rangers your referring to me and that I take offense to.



LOL, fact of forum life, m'man. Just like you said - it happens on every class board. Many of us get called "whiny rangers" just like you get called [whatever] wizard even though you don't share the same opinions of the ppl who are being tools. Sorry, but you can't expect to be exempt any more than I can... but thanks for making it clear that you don't feel the same way, that's good to hear.
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Old 06-15-2006, 05:48 PM   #22
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No we are not "Teir 1" dps. Would it matter if we were? If we did the same dps as the other top teir classes would Rangers still be wanted since those other classes still have more utility to offer than we do? Even if I do the same damage as a Brigand I'm sure as hell he wont be left out of a raid.
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Old 06-15-2006, 05:57 PM   #23
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Wil81115 wrote:
with upgrading your gear, your bow, your CA's, your debuffs, using right teir ammo, good poisons,  you bet we can be...

In other words: Raid all the time, spend all your money on rare poisons, and buy your arrows...But really, who cares. If I wanted to be T1 DPS I would have rolled a wizard. I knew they were/should be at the top of the heap. If anyone has the right to complain it's them.
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Old 06-15-2006, 06:48 PM   #24
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Lotusd wrote:Was reading all the board and seems rangers have been moved to t2-t3?? is that correct?

Did some parsing with a monk (my mom), a defiler (my dad), and a warlock (total stranger) in lavastorm.  Before the Warlock joined, my mom and I were pretty high DPS (in the 200 range roughly for me, mom was around 150) with occasional spikes and dips of course.  The Defiler DPS isn't worth mentioning SMILEY  Since we all know the playstyle of each other (we group quite often), we were able to adapt to the situation and sometimes raise our DPS by 30 - 50 points on some fights.  Suffice to say, I was "tier one" for the fights SMILEY After Warlock was a differant story.  I will not name names, but he had. . .  Aggro troubles. . .  The monk DPS went Down, the Defiler DPS went down, my DPS went down, all because a new playstyle was introduced and we needed time to re-adjust.  He kept grabbing aggro, so my mom was busy healing him AND using more aggro managing, just to keep the goblins off of him.  My dad was busy using more wards than necassary just keep the Warlock alive.  he could use fewer offensive spells.  Since he couldnt use some of his debuffs, that inflicted some minor drawbacks onto my DPS.  All the while, the Warlock was completely oblivious to the fact and consistantly out DPS'ed us, but drawing a LOT of aggro.  Suffice to say, after I mentioned the aggro prob (my mom is too polite to mention anything of the sort SMILEY), he handled it better, but the differant playstyle and SCENARIO changed the DPS counts drastically.  He used all his procs on the Monk, so her DPS went up a good amount.  Mine went down, since I was busy using melee to keep all the AOE'ed mobs off of him, since I can take substantially more hits than the toilet-paper armored finger-waggler SMILEY you may think this is babbling, maybe not, but I'm trying to get a point across here. . . "DPS tiers" are SITUATIONAL!  If you know who you're grouping with and their playstyles and limits, your going good.  Add just ONE new combatant, however, and the entire thing can change due to subtle mechanics!  1 To answer your question though. . .  I am having no problem keeping my position as highest DPS SMILEY  Occasionally I fall because of spell timer conflicts and the lucky proc-run, but it's evening out. . .  Rangers are STILL good DPS, no matter what people tell you.

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Old 06-15-2006, 06:51 PM   #25
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SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:
Before LU24:

T0: Conjurors, Necromancers

T1: Assassins, Wizards, Brigands, Swashbucklers

T2: Warlocks, Rangers

After LU24:

We shall see.


Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 06-15-2006 06:26 AM



BS dude.... rangers constantly are in the T1 slot. Their offset is that instead of risking dying from AOE in jousting fighte rlike assassin/swashies/Brigs thy have to use costly arrows.

i am sick and tired of the whinning and liest from some people.

Rangers are one the best pure DPS classes in the game. With the right tanking (aggro), debuff and aggro reducer they are top notch.

 

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Old 06-15-2006, 08:40 PM   #26
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SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:
Before LU24:

T0: Conjurors, Necromancers

T1: Assassins, Wizards, Brigands, Swashbucklers

T2: Warlocks, Rangers

After LU24:

We shall see.


Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on 06-15-2006 06:26 AM


IDK, that looks about right on average to me. Sure, Ive been in the #1 spot a couple times, generally land in the top 6, but if i had to give an average on who lands where in the average raid night DPS, it would look alot like that. Some nights you might even put the brawler in T2 as well. Oh, and the Brigand would [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near be sharing T0 with the summoners, but not quite.
And dont toss jousting BS at me hun, I've perfected the Ranger Dance.

 

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Old 06-15-2006, 09:00 PM   #27
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Zodian wrote:

BS dude.... rangers constantly are in the T1 slot. Their offset is that instead of risking dying from AOE in jousting fighte rlike assassin/swashies/Brigs thy have to use costly arrows.

i am sick and tired of the whinning and liest from some people.

Rangers are one the best pure DPS classes in the game. With the right tanking (aggro), debuff and aggro reducer they are top notch.



LMFAO  OMG   LOL   [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]   ROFLMAO  :smileyvery-happy::smileymad::smileyhappy::smileyvery-happy::smileytongue:

I want to respond but I just can't stop laughing.  Please warn this person that drugs are bad.  They have destroyed his mind and he's most definitely deranged and dellusional.

 

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Old 06-15-2006, 09:16 PM   #28
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Amen hun, mine was almost a nasty OMG S.T.F.U but I thought better of it.
But the again I am a bitter, computerless, angry woman Ranger right now.
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:40 PM   #29
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We all know that the class has problems and most of us are aware of where they are... and I'll admit to doing a fair amount of complaining myself. But every other thread seems to be beating the same dead horse: that rangers have no unique role, maybe two class-defining skills, we don't have any utility to compensate for our lack of dmg, and we're sub-par DPS on raids.

Yeah, it sucks, but hearing the same thing day in, day out is getting old. I guess if it makes you feel better, great; I probably just need to take a break from the forums again, if I'm going to continue enjoying the game.

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Old 06-15-2006, 09:50 PM   #30
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Yeah J, these are my first posts since a couple weeks after the LU....I stopped when such a large number of forum Rangers seemed to think that everything was rosey and that there were not some serious issues with the roll of a Ranger. Where did most of them go? Granted, there isnt really much of a problem with Rangers who dont raid, but for that smalleer number of us who do, its even more disheartening now than it was then. Especially now that we've moved to max AAs and were holding that out as a last hope. Well, unfortunately, every other class getting max AAs too only made our plight worse.
And to those of you who think Rangers are fine, I am happy for you if you are a Ranger. If you are not a Ranger, get over your bitterness of T6 already.
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