EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Class Discussion > Scout's Den > Ranger
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-21-2006, 09:30 PM   #91
Sokolov

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,357
Default


TrigunVash wrote:
wizards/warlocks = dont have to pay every god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bit of cash they have for poisons and arrows, sit and click spells FTWwizard/warlocks = group buffs that add to groups overall dpsranger = pathfinding FTWranger = gimped

Wizard/Warlocks = no ability to increase DPS simply by spending extra cashWizard/Warlocks =
lack of self/group/directed buffs which aid caster DPS*shrug* depends on your PoV

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-21-200608:32 AM

__________________
[] Sokolov - New Outriders []
[] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) []

Healing Guide - Version 0.5
Fate has perfect wings
Sokolov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 09:31 PM   #92
MegaDavidoff

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6
Default

LOL that trollboy really now the game :smileyvery-happy: OMG hahaha *rofl* (I fell of my chair reading it)
MegaDavidoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 09:32 PM   #93
Dirtgirl

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 320
Default

No doubt
__________________
Yeah, I died a lot.
Dirtgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 11:11 PM   #94
Deml

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 324
Default

WIzards and warlocks don't pay for things to increase their dps, you're right.  What you're failing to remember is that Rangers using poison is CALCULATED as part of our overall DPS.  We are expected to use poisons, which we have to pay for.  It's not a bonus to add to what we can already do, it's expected that we use it to do what we actually do.
 
Rangers do not wear heavy armor.  We are not tanks, do not buff and have no where near the utility of rogues.  Ask a rogue, they tell you their primary role is to debuff with a little dps on the side.
 
As for soloing named, the comment about soloing named in PP is correct.  I could easily solo the 2nd floor cyclops and eyeball, would actually have more trouble with the groups of cyclops before the named than I would with either one of those two.  Will I be doing that after today?  Not likely.  Won't even try till I'm bored at 70.
__________________
Deml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 11:16 PM   #95
MaghodienStarund

General
MaghodienStarund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 10
Default

Since when can we not run and shoot?
 
Ive always ran and used my AutoAttack
MaghodienStarund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 11:35 PM   #96
Deml

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 324
Default

You can run and use autoattack but they were referring to using combat arts on the run.  That has basically been completely removed for us now so we can only snare, run off while autoattack is on, stop and fire, run, stop fire, run stop, fire, etc and hope we can do that till the mob dies.  Too bad snares don't last as long as some of those skill refreshes.
__________________
Deml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 01:14 AM   #97
Sokolov

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,357
Default


Demlar wrote:
WIzards and warlocks don't pay for things to increase their dps, you're right.  What you're failing to remember is that Rangers using poison is CALCULATED as part of our overall DPS.  We are expected to use poisons, which we have to pay for.  It's not a bonus to add to what we can already do, it's expected that we use it to do what we actually do.
 
Rangers do not wear heavy armor.  We are not tanks, do not buff and have no where near the utility of rogues.  Ask a rogue, they tell you their primary role is to debuff with a little dps on the side.

Again, it's a matter of prespective.  The increased DPS from poisons may be expected, but it also means that your class is seen as more valuable because of that potential DPS (this is obvious or else you would not be expected to use it!).  It wasn't that you were forced to use it to be on par with others, it had put you AHEAD of the rest of the pack, thus constituting a bonus.  Post-nerf tho, we'll see what this all means, and I will fully support an increase in CA damage if it looks like Rangers will fall behind other classes even with poison.I know most people don't agree with me, but I dislike a narrow definition of utility as it is always twisted to be used by people to prove one point or another.  For me, anything that aids the group is utility in one form or another.  More precisely, abilities that allow you, or anyone else in group to do their job better is utility - so even Ranger self-buffs fall into this category.  What's the difference really between increasing your own DPS or someone else's?  How is one "utility" and the other not?  You are increasing group efficiency, end of story.(In fact, it may be argued that self-buffs are more valuable as they translate from solo to group without a hitch, whereas many "utility" based spells have diminished benefits to a solo player.)

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-21-200612:20 PM

__________________
[] Sokolov - New Outriders []
[] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) []

Healing Guide - Version 0.5
Fate has perfect wings
Sokolov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 03:51 AM   #98
King Leor

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Default

HAHA, Blazare and Dirtgirl, Crychtonn know EXACTLY what he is talking about and happens to be a ranger so ya cant say try and go play one as he has and does. Rangers (preLU 20) can solo ANY ^^^ heroic encounter with ease, (even grouped ones with thorny trap of course). About the only one that we cant solo is the creature of beauty in PP, And dirtgirl he was talking about SC for one and NOT PP, but seeing as you mentioned it I figured I would talk about how easy it is. Of course all this wont be easy anymore with thte horrid changes being put in place. So theres time for one last glory post to say YES!!! WE COULD SOLO ANY HEROIC ENCOUNTER IN THE GAME. and nit could be done naked with only a bow and weps (assuming they procced pre lu19). Cuz gear sure didn't matter that much. It increased out dmg slightly but as long as we are using stun poisons anything is cake. SO ya, I would say crychtonn is a much better soloer than you dirtgirl if you cant solo heroics post lvl 55.
 
Leoric
Level 60 ranger
King Leor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 04:06 AM   #99
Sokolov

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,357
Default

Yep, prior to last night, my ranger was wearing level 20 gear (except her bow and poisons) until level 45.  There was little point in upgrading.
__________________
[] Sokolov - New Outriders []
[] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) []

Healing Guide - Version 0.5
Fate has perfect wings
Sokolov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 04:08 AM   #100
CrimsonValerian

Loremaster
CrimsonValerian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 74
Default

If you guys can solo poets palace then why the griping about the nerf?  That's mega overpowered, when you state that you can drop ^^^ white, yellow heroics you're doing nothing but adding fuel to the fire. 

On the other hand, from what i've been reading about parsing numbers if 55% of your dps is from procs and poisons, thats a developer screwup for damm sure.

And on the other blood-covered hand, the arrow issue is stupid, go play final fantasy with a ranger and see how much you bang out for arrows, and there are no local vendors to buy npc arrows from in that game, player crafted only.  My assassin doesnt go through as many arrows as you but as many poisons for sure, dropping a regular 2 plat a day to keep him outfitted.

As i stated in another post i don't agree with your dps being dropped around my dirges dps, and hope to see a quick fix for this.

/Predator hug from the other Predator

__________________
Grull the 70 Fat Pally

Gulliver the 70 Rat-sassin

Zelethos the 66 Combat Medic Mystic
CrimsonValerian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 04:38 AM   #101
Cron

General
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 170
Default


Sokolov wrote:

Demlar wrote:
WIzards and warlocks don't pay for things to increase their dps, you're right.  What you're failing to remember is that Rangers using poison is CALCULATED as part of our overall DPS.  We are expected to use poisons, which we have to pay for.  It's not a bonus to add to what we can already do, it's expected that we use it to do what we actually do.
 
Rangers do not wear heavy armor.  We are not tanks, do not buff and have no where near the utility of rogues.  Ask a rogue, they tell you their primary role is to debuff with a little dps on the side.

Again, it's a matter of prespective.  The increased DPS from poisons may be expected, but it also means that your class is seen as more valuable because of that potential DPS (this is obvious or else you would not be expected to use it!).  It wasn't that you were forced to use it to be on par with others, it had put you AHEAD of the rest of the pack, thus constituting a bonus.  Post-nerf tho, we'll see what this all means, and I will fully support an increase in CA damage if it looks like Rangers will fall behind other classes even with poison.

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-21-200612:20 PM


Sokolov: BG made a post recently that said that Rangers are still in T1 as long as poisons are being used. Without poisons, we fall to T2. (others have said they played and it went to T3). This is what Dem is talking about. We have to purchase poisons to GET to T1. It is that we are forced to buy it to get to our tier and BG said that himself.
__________________
Narsan's Signature
Cron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 08:20 AM   #102
Guy De Alsace

Loremaster
Guy De Alsace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,902
Default

I play a 60 Ranger and not too expertly (i'm slow OK). I've never seen a Ranger solo a white and higher heroic, ever. Myself I've managed to solo a green named heroic once or twice but the field of battle has to be just right to do it. No aggro mobs, plenty of room to move about, mob has no ranged stun etc etc...What people are saying is that we have nothing at all except DPS to bring to a group. Its like healers having their heals reduced, Bards losing some of their many buffs, Guardians having the strength of their taunts reduced or mit taken away. Its our class defining role that may have been reduced by as much as 55% (going on some estimates). I'd hate to have a healer with a heal that did 1,000 hp heal get reduced to a 450 point heal.Personally I think Rangers should be doing slightly higher DPS than Wizards and Warlocks to compensate for their buffing ability. Chain Armour in my experience does make a difference in our survivability but thats something all scouts get so its not exclusive to Rangers.
Guy De Alsace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 05:17 PM   #103
Trollb

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 94
Default

"my heavy armor and great utility more then make up for the cost of arrows. /sarcasmWe can only wear med armor, arrows are summoned and we have NO utility."

Yes, so chain armor isnt any good at all; just wear cloth.

Arrows being "so costly" was never and has never been an excuse to make a class the "most leet" of them all.

No utility whatsoever; you have equal utility to every other rogue (omg not the 20 second swash mez, omg!).

Oh and I notice you AVOID the fact that you solo better than every other scout class... oops, must have missed that fact. Rangers, can solo better than every other rogue, thus are NOT should NOT, and should NEVER HAVE BEEN tier 1 dps.

Ranger was FOTM for so long, and i am frankly tickled pink at all the crying.

Trollb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 05:29 PM   #104
Mirdo

Loremaster
Mirdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 395
Default

Still here Trollboy? Please, take your obvious class envy and trolling posts elsewhere - along with your seeming lack of knowledge of virtually every other scout class.
 
Mirdo.
 
Mirdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 05:38 PM   #105
Trollb

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 94
Default

"Still here Trollboy? Please, take your obvious class envy and trolling posts elsewhere - along with your seeming lack of knowledge of virtually every other scout class."

Lets evaluate what rangers have and measure why they were nerfed;

Chain armor- better than even light tanks get!

Soloability the likes of which makes all other scouts jaws drop. Swash/brigs/predators struggle with just blues, until they are in a group.

Utility- virtually the same as the other rogue and predator with VERY minor differences!

The reality is that the rogue/predator classes really arent all that different in terms of utility, so justifying how rangers get to hold the mantle for dps AND soloing at all levels is just completely and unquestionably unfathomable.

SOE did the right thing by balancing the class. But because I know you cant see that through the tears; here is a tissue.

Message Edited by Trollboy on 02-22-200604:43 AM

Trollb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 05:46 PM   #106
Mirdo

Loremaster
Mirdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 395
Default

Again you are wrong on so many counts. Know any Brigands that solo Poet's palace? I do.
 
Show me how a predator is equal in utility to any other Rogue.
 
You have had a serious case of class envy and are now just here to troll. Your motives are transparent and your 'arguments' flawed - stick to learning to play your own class before even attempting to assess the impact of game mechanic changes on another.
 
Oh and I just checked your posting history - you have even been corrected in your own Swashbuckler forums for not knowing how to solo effectively and making erroneous statements about that class - your main.
 
Anyway, I'm not feeding this particular Troll anymoe - just skipping your ill-informed nonsensical posts.
 
Mirdo.
 
 

Message Edited by Mirdo on 02-22-200612:54 PM

Mirdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 05:51 PM   #107
klepp

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 236
Default

yea whoever was in game since yesterday.. knows we... now.. basically.. suck.. alot. i play to have fun.. and this isnt fun anymore =/  ironic, this morning i logged ina nd about 6 folks were lfg... 3 rangers a few casters and a healer.   I checked about 10 mins later... and guess who was lfg... the 3 rangers =p

cant even solo [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] anymore.   Think we got the biggest nerf out of any class ever.   I think 50% damage reduction is an understatement, they even took away some of our "utility" if thats what you'd call it! 

I cant express my distaste without alot of cuss words..

klepp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 06:22 PM   #108
Sokolov

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,357
Default


Cronon wrote:

Sokolov wrote:

Demlar wrote:
WIzards and warlocks don't pay for things to increase their dps, you're right.  What you're failing to remember is that Rangers using poison is CALCULATED as part of our overall DPS.  We are expected to use poisons, which we have to pay for.  It's not a bonus to add to what we can already do, it's expected that we use it to do what we actually do.
 
Rangers do not wear heavy armor.  We are not tanks, do not buff and have no where near the utility of rogues.  Ask a rogue, they tell you their primary role is to debuff with a little dps on the side.

Again, it's a matter of prespective.  The increased DPS from poisons may be expected, but it also means that your class is seen as more valuable because of that potential DPS (this is obvious or else you would not be expected to use it!).  It wasn't that you were forced to use it to be on par with others, it had put you AHEAD of the rest of the pack, thus constituting a bonus.  Post-nerf tho, we'll see what this all means, and I will fully support an increase in CA damage if it looks like Rangers will fall behind other classes even with poison.

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-21-200612:20 PM


Sokolov: BG made a post recently that said that Rangers are still in T1 as long as poisons are being used. Without poisons, we fall to T2. (others have said they played and it went to T3). This is what Dem is talking about. We have to purchase poisons to GET to T1. It is that we are forced to buy it to get to our tier and BG said that himself.
I believe I made it clear I was speaking about conditions prior to the nerf which contributed to the decision to fix procs, as well as addressed the post-nerf situation.  My point still stands.In any case I do not believe Demlar was discussing post-nerf specifically, but generally and attempting to address both, as I have.  But think what you want.

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-22-200605:23 AM

__________________
[] Sokolov - New Outriders []
[] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) []

Healing Guide - Version 0.5
Fate has perfect wings
Sokolov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 07:23 PM   #109
coltla

General
coltla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 107
Default


Trollboy wrote:

Rangers, can solo better than every other rogue, thus are NOT should NOT, and should NEVER HAVE BEEN tier 1 dps.


So your argument has changed from "I don't know what I'm talking about" to.. "The devs don't know what they're talking about" ? Is that correct? Devs said PRE LU13 that all preds should have been tier 1 DPS. Tell us your ingame name and and server...please?
coltla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 09:35 PM   #110
Jagdwol

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 31
Default


Lord of the Arctic wrote:
Seems the good days for us Rangers are gone SMILEYhttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=47956#M47956

While not doing anything about this bug would be preferable to some, we cannot ignore the progressively more significant effect it is having as the game evolves. Fixing this issue will help bring many of the classes back into their intended range of damage output as we discussed around the time of LU13 and the combat revamp.Keep in mind that if you play a melee class but don't rely on a slow weapon to generate extra procs, this fix should have little impact on your style of play.Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder

So if this was a bug and people actively talked about how to exploit said bug "IE best weapons for the job etc etc" How come there are not mass bannings taking place for those people exploiting said bug?
__________________
Once you driven your drunk father to your Mom's parole hearing what else is there?
Jagdwol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 10:09 PM   #111
Morphysi

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NW United States
Posts: 4
Default

No doubt, the beating of this dead horse will lead to not, however even voices in the void can be supplicated by sharing.

I understand the goal by S.O.E. to find game balance. And you'll never please us all, no matter what you alter.

I'm *assuming* the ultimate goal is to make the game as fun as it can be for all the different playing styles. What I have noticed, is that there seems to be a pretty strong lean towards forcing players to group in order to find any real success in the game.

Yes, all of the class combo's can solo, there are plenty of green and blues that you can fight and maybe, just maybe, some day, you gain enough xp off those battles to get that coveted next level. But here's my beef with that....

There is a large host of gamers who love the game but don't have the time it takes to find/create/organize a group every time they play. And some just love the solo play, even in a world full of other live players. But ever time you have a successful class, who can solo and actually have fun doing so, they get the nerfed out of them. It happened to Wizard and now the Ranger. Oh, it's not all doom and gloom, but the with each nerf, the fun factor drains a bit more, making it so now ALL classes have the joy of wading through peanut butter in an effort to evolve their toon.

Soon, enough joy will be sucked out of the game, and that lovely mediocrity of *balance* will be found that people will just move on to the next game.

My suggestion (cuz I hate rants without real feedback) is that fair focus be given to those who love to solo (or only have that hour here and there) so that this doesn't turn into EQ1 where it's group or don't bother playing.

Set the procs back to the way they were when you're alone and apply the new settings as soon as you group.

Good hunting and good luck,

-Morph

Morphysi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 10:15 PM   #112
Sokolov

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,357
Default

Invariably, people say this:It's not about DPS, we just want fun.What does "fun" mean?  Oddly enough, typically the fun classes are ones that do DPS (Pre-nerf Rangers and Conjurors).  Nerfs (which usually relate to DPS) are always described as "sucking the fun out."  Even healers like Templars describe their class as unfun and Furies fun because Furies have more DPS.So DPS = fun?  In which case then balance does equal "unfun" and "mediocrity," as no one will have the "fun class" of better DPS than most classes when balance is acheived.  It also follows that even balance struck by increasing DPS for everyone until they are all equal will be unfun.So what should the devs do if balance is preceived as boring?Really, I am just trying to understand what I am preceiving to be contradictory/illogical statements.
__________________
[] Sokolov - New Outriders []
[] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) []

Healing Guide - Version 0.5
Fate has perfect wings
Sokolov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 12:20 AM   #113
Grimme

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 82
Default

Ok this is silly. Everyone knows the power contained in Gandalfs nostril hairs alone would beat down Legolas or Aragorn, how about both at the same time. We're talking wizards man. Rangers < Wizards in the whole take things down department. But don't ask a wizard to get you through the woods on time.

Ok, rangers got the nerf, we get it. So what. So we all get nerfed eventually, if we didn't the game would not be what it currently is - a great fricking game! And if they got too nerfed, they will eventually get unnerfed a bit. It is how mmorpgs work (well, the ones that ever HAVE updates).

I for one will make sure every group I make for the next month has at least one or two rangers in it (provided I can find 2). I'm not kidding. Rangers are still cool, they are just not the fotm.

 

Grimme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 06:03 AM   #114
Morphysi

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NW United States
Posts: 4
Default

You missed my point Sokolov.

For some fun might equal DPS, but not for others. Fun is translated differently for each player. I've a friend who loves the healer, and that's all. For ME, fun equals being able to have an ejoyable amount of success with a character without the need for grouping every time I get on line. This *was* possible for the Ranger class pre-LU20. They were hardly invincible, but it wasn't the knock-down, drag-out battle like my Mystic goes though just to eak out a few xp points. Followed by time spent healing and medding up. That is NOT my idea of a fun solo game experience.

For me, it's simple.

Rangers pre-LU20 = fun solo class to play.

Rangers post-LU20 = not fun solo class to play.

Interpret fun however you want, this is my interpretation.

I'll either complete have to adjust my tactics or not play that class as much (just like my Wiz, pre & post LU16... er, I think it was 16... you know the mega-combat change).

Morphysi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 11:13 AM   #115
Sokolov

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,357
Default

I don;t really think I missed your point nor was I really disagreeing with you, I just think it's ironic that even tho we both say DPS is not the same as fun, typically people end up describing classes with good DPS as fun.Even I felt pretty powerful soloing orange heroics as a Ranger before the nerf and earning XP significantly faster doing so than in a group, it WAS fun.   Now I can't mostly because I can't do enough DPS between kiting rounds.

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-22-200610:14 PM

Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-22-200610:17 PM

__________________
[] Sokolov - New Outriders []
[] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) []

Healing Guide - Version 0.5
Fate has perfect wings
Sokolov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 09:18 PM   #116
Morphysi

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NW United States
Posts: 4
Default

I appreicate the response. I guess after all it doesn't matter much anyway. I don't feel compelled to play EQ2 much now anyway.
 
Laters.
Morphysi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:50 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.