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Old 01-27-2006, 07:52 AM   #1
EverMan

 
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Before I even begin I want to make it clear this is for the ranger community to give the problems with our class to the dev. If you are not a ranger, or never played a ranger please refrain from posting this is not a debate but if you are a ranger an have found a problem or bug I missed please post and I will edit this.

Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:

#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.

#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.

#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.

#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.

#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.

#6 When using Stealth to complete a HO, it will bug the ability and can not use stealth again until you relog.

#7 Focus Fire line of spells are completely useless cause of the 10 sec duration and 5 min recast.

Some Solution to the problems:

#1 Some quick fixes would be add a longbow to the peacock quest or add a proc to the Darkfury Longbow.

#2 Make a range CA for this ability or give us a proc buff like fighter have.

#3 There already icon on the ranged CA for Ho’s but they are not used for some reason. Just add those ca to be able to be used to trigger the ho.

#4 Add some Str and Int to the loot.

#5 Fix bug.

#6 Fix bug

#7 Make the effect weaker and make it last longer.

AGAIN THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. PLESE DO NOT FLAME, TROLL, OR BAIT.

Edited for other problem that have been brough up.

Message Edited by EverMania on 01-27-200601:12 PM

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Old 01-27-2006, 08:45 AM   #2
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 Also I think we need a ranged  stun like brig's 

and  offer more to a group besides  just DPS  dont get me wrong i love  m DPS  but  lets offer something   the only  thig we do is debuff  fire and  mitigation ,piercing  i think it is

 

And  more T6 fabled loot as you had already  stated

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Old 01-27-2006, 11:25 PM   #3
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Crafted arrowsLast time I made one -- like 10 updates and many toons ago -- they took too many combines to be worth the trouble.Recently I noticed that there are rare metals specifically for arrows.Does arrow crafting now require fewer combines or is there a plan to change that with the next update (as with inks)?/hope
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:34 PM   #4
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EverMania wrote:

Before I even begin I want to make it clear this is for the ranger community to give the problems with our class to the dev. If you are not a ranger, or never played a ranger please refrain from posting this is not a debate but if you are a ranger an have found a problem or bug I missed please post and I will edit this.

Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:

#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.

#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.

#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.

#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.

#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.

Some Solution to the problems:

#1 Some quick fixes would be add a longbow to the peacock quest or add a proc to the Darkfury Longbow.

#2 Make a range CA for this ability

#3 There already icon on the ranged CA for Ho’s but they are not used for some reason. Just add those ca to be able to be used to trigger the ho.

#4 Add some Str and Int to the loot.

#5 Fix bug.

AGAIN THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. PLESE DO NOT FLAME, TROLL, OR BAIT.

Message Edited by EverMania on 01-26-200610:18 PM


 

              1. def agree with this one

                

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Old 01-27-2006, 11:37 PM   #5
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EverMania wrote:

Before I even begin I want to make it clear this is for the ranger community to give the problems with our class to the dev. If you are not a ranger, or never played a ranger please refrain from posting this is not a debate but if you are a ranger an have found a problem or bug I missed please post and I will edit this.

Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:

#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.

#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.

#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.

#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.

#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.

Some Solution to the problems:

#1 Some quick fixes would be add a longbow to the peacock quest or add a proc to the Darkfury Longbow.

#2 Make a range CA for this ability

#3 There already icon on the ranged CA for Ho’s but they are not used for some reason. Just add those ca to be able to be used to trigger the ho.

#4 Add some Str and Int to the loot.

#5 Fix bug.

AGAIN THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. PLESE DO NOT FLAME, TROLL, OR BAIT.

Message Edited by EverMania on 01-26-200610:18 PM


1, 3-5. Def agree with those.

2. Would rather see the master strike as a proc simalar to the fighter like for scouts in general.

sry for the double post

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Old 01-27-2006, 11:42 PM   #6
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Stealth skill is still bug'd when using it to complete a HO.STILL!
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:42 PM   #7
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Excellent post, could not agree more. Perhaps if a peacock bow was added to game I would actually do the quests. And would LOVE to wear the bard only gear from Al'afaz  *drools*. I think not only us but everyone can agree there is waaaaay too much priest gear in ratio to scout. 80% of legendary chain gear is WIS stat with ministration. PLEASE FIX.
 
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:43 PM   #8
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We do have a ranged stun.  It comes in the form of a poison.  Use your poison (touch of the beholder, phantasmic visions) and you will stun mobs at range.  I don't think I want any "group buffs" because we would have to give up something in order to get those buffs.  Personally I would prefer to bring crazy dps to a group/raid and let everyone else worry about what buffs are on. If they added buffs to us, we would have even more people screaming that we get nerfed.  I really don't want any additional attention brought to rangers.  We are fine where we are at.  Let the others bring the buffs.  Let us bring the pain.
 
We do need a high end proccing bow. 
 
Path of the ranger doesn't give a bow?  Come on SOE, that is like giving a mage a short sword and telling them, "Have fun!"  Sure they COULD use it, but does it define the class?  Does it make sense?  Will they use it effectively?  No to all accounts.  Nothing makes us feel more like a ranger than our bow.  Please give it to us.  New rangers and high end rangers need bows to help define their class and learn to use them effectively. 

Message Edited by Jeris Nefzen on 01-27-200601:50 PM

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Old 01-28-2006, 07:25 PM   #9
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I was thinking about this list last night.  While I agree with all of it, and told Goern that in channel the night he put it together, I'm not sure #5 needs to be there.  I say that ONLY because of the upcoming changes and removal of class/archtype's and people starting as the subclass they want right away.  You will be starting on the Isle with a bow as a Ranger, from what I understand.  They also said they were changing the quest rewards on the archtype and subclass quests.  If none of this applies after the change and the quest still offers a bow then I totally agree it should be #5 on the list and needs to be fixed.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:33 PM   #10
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we're dps...plain and simple. if we're to get utility, we only have one thing to give up to balance out(without changes to other classes), our dps. no thanks
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:42 PM   #11
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On HOs, I absolutely agree that it is impractical for the Ranger to participate, and this needs to be addressed.I have an alternate solution.  The HOs by definition must use icons that can be answered by any type of Scout.  If the HOs themselves are changed to include the bow icon lines, I think we're just moving the problem and making it impractical for other Scouts to advance those.  Further, I don't know of anything that the spell icons (mask, dagger, bow, and so forth) are used for other than advancing HOs.So, just get rid of the bow icon.  Reclassify the "bow" CAs with icons currently on the HO.  After all, the hidden shot line is a stealth attack, triple shot line is damage (dagger?),  backshot line is from-behind damage.  There is no reason I can see to assign a "bow" to any of these.  Align the icons on bow CAs with the types assigned to hand-to-hand CAs, and all Scouts can be the Master of the Wheel again.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:45 PM   #12
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Well i think if there going to take away our procs from melee weapons and procs possibly from the sheilds and armor items we have thats all fine. 
 
1.  Put our offencive stance back up to the damage it was originaly at.  Basically they lowered our offencive stance proc becuase we were overpowered compaired to some of the other classes.  The fact is they had it right in the first place they just didnt realize that we were procing our melee weapons so id ask that the damage be returned back to the original ca.
 
2.  On our self buff could we have it changed from agi to str/int seeing as how agi seems to be basically for defencive use's only and we have an agi buff on our defencive stance.
 
3.  I use focus fire but agree a slightly longer timer would be nice.
 
4.  Equipment is just bad for scouts of any type....
 
5.  I'd like to see an increase in ca damage to make up for the soon to be lost procs. 
 
6.  Still have allot of concerns on what the future holds as far as poisons.  How much dmg will they do?  Will they and were they ment to proc from ranged attacks?
 
7.  Maybe instead of having 2 movement speed slows make one a dps slow.
 
All in all im very happy with my ranged now.  I enjoy playing eq2 very much as a ranger.  I am however worried about the incoming changes and dont look forward to them for any of us.  Many have stated this to be "not a big deal".  I have worked hours apon hours apon days apon weeks to equip my ranger for exactly what i do day in and day out for my guild and for the raid party im in.  I am one of the people that subscribe to the reason weapons proc is that its a magical item and when it says outgoing dmg it means outgoing dmg.  Why would a sheild proc and a weapon not?  In all truth if you have a bow out your not holding a sheild either. 
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:45 PM   #13
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Totally disagree with your first point.I'm so fed up of seeing developers spending their time [Removed for Content] around with raid zones, raid drops that only 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the population ever get to see.As for the other points I agree with the HO's and that arrow quality should make a difference to damage for CAs.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:08 PM   #14
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valleyboy1 wrote:

I'm so fed up of seeing developers spending their time [Removed for Content] around with raid zones, raid drops that only 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the population ever get to see.


OK this is the type of post I do no want on this thread, that statement is going made some people mad and there going to be 20 post of nothing but arguing about this one post then.  Just cause u don't raid doesn't means other don't. Please keep that in mind.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:17 PM   #15
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EverMania wrote:


valleyboy1 wrote:

I'm so fed up of seeing developers spending their time [Removed for Content] around with raid zones, raid drops that only 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the population ever get to see.


OK this is the type of post I do no want on this thread, that statement is going made some people mad and there going to be 20 post of nothing but arguing about this one post then.  Just cause u don't raid doesn't means other don't. Please keep that in mind.

I agree, but my point was before you suggest adding fabled bows lets think about the 99.9% of other rangers and add quests for other bows.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:42 PM   #16
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Ok that what this thread is for ideas, this is what i was thinking. We have Pristine Ironwood Longbow. That a legendary Bow and the best bow there is as of right now for our class. So a treasured bow is never going be better than a legendary bow. So we have to shoot for another legendary bow such as Peacock Quest or even a  fabled bow but  since all the data is in the system from the other weapons of the quest proc and stats, peacock to me seems like the easiest thing to put in of as right now or add a proc to the already existing darkfury bow.  SoE would not put another quest in this late of the expansion.

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Old 01-28-2006, 10:51 PM   #17
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EverMania wrote:

Ok that what this thread is for ideas, this is what i was thinking. We have Pristine Ironwood Longbow. That a legendary Bow and the best bow there is as of right now for our class. So a treasured bow is never going be better than a legendary bow. So we have to shoot for another legendary bow such as Peacock Quest or even a  fabled bow but  since all the data is in the system from the other weapons of the quest proc and stats, peacock to me seems like the easiest thing to put in of as right now or add a proc to the already existing darkfury bow.  SoE would not put another quest in this late of the expansion.


Keep in mind there are 6 classes that can use bows not just rangers.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:55 PM   #18
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I think you better hope that when they say that our icons are a sign of whats to come in the new expansion that were going to get 1. a green cape and then 2. a bow SMILEY
 
I really look forward to the incoming expansion because for me t6 was a flop.  I really hope that t7 is all what there makeing it to be and all what im hopeing it to be SMILEY
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Old 01-28-2006, 11:12 PM   #19
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Lexani- wrote:
I think you better hope that when they say that our icons are a sign of whats to come in the new expansion that were going to get 1. a green cape and then 2. a bow SMILEY
 
I really look forward to the incoming expansion because for me t6 was a flop.  I really hope that t7 is all what there makeing it to be and all what im hopeing it to be SMILEY

T6 imho is just way too small, I loved the changes made to the ranger class in LU13 but the expansion just basically sucked.I never played EQ1 but after talking to some guildies about the expansions in that, I was expecting huge zones with tons of content. What we go was just tiny.As for ranger improvements:1. Gimme a cloak with a hood2. Gimme a cloak with a hood3. Gimme a cloak with a hoodothers:Make arrow quality mean somethingAdd more arrow variations (exploding tipped arrows?)Possible non game breaking AA'sImproved tracking (heroic/solo seperation)Point blank range (on a timer of course)
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:59 AM   #20
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Hopefully they actually remember to Add T7 Arrow Merchants and give us a T7 Summon, Unlike T6 where we got to use Grey Arrows:smileysad:
 
I hope they have new bow graphics too, the one in my icon is nice SMILEY
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Old 01-29-2006, 01:01 AM   #21
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My t3 fabled short bow is worse than my t3 legendary short bow. /cry
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Old 01-29-2006, 01:04 AM   #22
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Lexani -

On our self buff could we have it changed from agi to str/int seeing as how agi seems to be basically for defencive use's only and we have an agi buff on our defencive stance.


 38% haste could be changed as well.
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:06 AM   #23
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1. I agree completely, there needs to be some quest reward bows that are better than the crafted, I understand that the Crafters need Lovin' too, but the Peacock Quests and some other access quests that I can think of provide enough of a diversion to keep most gamers that aren't going to raid with a huge guild from doing them at all, put in a bow reward, more people will do the quests weither they raid the zones or not....
 
2. Kind of a moot point, 2/3 of the ones we have now are, and who wants to give up thorny trap? Unless you are referring to the ones given every few levels, I.E. the ones you can get a master 2 of... and I think there's a choice of an RA in every one of them...
 
3.  HO system as a Whole needs to be revamped, it was never upgraded for T6, and there's never been a Bow HO that I know of anywhere, I agree that we're never in there to complete or "FLIP" an HO, but that's what Assassins, Swashbucklers, and that other class is for....
 
4.  I agree, PPR shows some promise with the Moss Covered Earring and the like, but that's just in the Top-End raid zones, would like a little more "spreading of the wealth."
 
5.  I Agree.
 
6.  Blech, Everbeta strikes again..
 
7.  Could be more useful, but I'm not going to complain due to the usefulness of Stream and Sniper and Thorny, hey, give me 3 excellent abilities and 1 so-so-craptacular one, I'll take that trade any day.
 
8.  There was no 8, just wanted to say excellent post, excellent discussion.
 
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:17 PM   #24
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just a quick couple of things...not everyone uses longbows (shortbow ranger since... always) mainly because i preferred the stats on them, if t7 continues as t6 with same stats i'll prob make the switch. so while we definately need more fabled bows with procs (esp t6) would be nice to see long and short bows if only for the sake of mixing things up a little :smileywink:although at the moment poisons are classed as spells, i think it was mentioned in another thread that this seems a little odd :smileyindifferent: which it does, so i wouldn't be surprised if this was changed to fixed damage at some point seeing as soe are trying to get realism in the game. as it stands i prefer str/agi on my armour, and with the stats of pearl i think thats the easy option for those that want int boost, without removing what are technically our "main stats" from armour for those that haven't capped stats yet.a fair solution may be to remove the class only tags on a lot of the fabled from t6, making some of the tasty bard from Court of Al'Afaz available to scout wanting those stats for example... i for one don't like the dictation of what stats a ranger needs, as we've seen time and again theres many ways to build a ranger :smileytongue:stealth HO bug has been around forever, and i think will continue to haunt us untill everything in the game is fixed, then soe might find time to deal with it :smileyvery-happy:
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:11 PM   #25
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I agree with the OP all the way but would like to add one more suggestion.
 
Pls extend the range on elude line of CA's.
 
All else OP has taken up needs to be adressed also.
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:14 PM   #26
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Another thing, while we're posting bugs and the like, why is it that Amazing shot and that line of arrow CA's don't really have the extended range listed in the spell description?  It has the same range as all the other RA's, in fact most of the time Stream of Arrows has a longer range than Amazing Shot.

Anyone else notice this?

 

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Old 01-30-2006, 02:25 AM   #27
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I dont use elude.  I dont get agro.
Get a troubador.  Dps group = troubador + predators.
 
we dont need a ranger type elude. You all use dire blade dont you???
 
Heres the thing, all assassins have to run around the entire fight, and they have to run back and forth to get off all their ranged ca's. 
All we do is sit and stream of arrows and press our othe ca's, and the occasional good ranger will debuff/dire blade, and when you do that you can elude. 
But most raiding guilds who understand eq2 will have a troub with their ranger which will allow u to never steal agro, providing primal is on and flower song( from the troub).
If your asking for a longer range on elude then your asking to be lazy and make rangers take even less skill.  Sad but true.
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Old 01-30-2006, 05:20 AM   #28
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I've been thinking about the list some more, and I think the proposed solution to add more int gear since our poison procs are affected by int is concentrating on the wrong end of the stick.Int should not affect the damage done by a poison proc.  That's the issue.  Fix it so that poison damage is not affected by int, not by more int gear for Rangers.
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Old 01-30-2006, 05:29 AM   #29
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No thanks jiinx.
 
 
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:04 AM   #30
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First off, far as adding utility to to the class, I think it just needs polishing at this point. And while some are not going to agree, dps is a tad high. I mean, we do by far, the easiest dps of any class. While thats all we do is dps, procs should be toned down some for poisons, I mean really the up and coming poison changes may be the best thing to happen, while not taking alot of dps away, it will take the eyes of 50% of the whiners away from us for a change.Secondly, for bows, best bow in game atm is not Imbued Ironwood, its Vilian Bow, with 12% proc rate which also procs imbued cobalt weapons from main hand, not that i use imbued cobalt weapons, cause i have a fabled 1hp with 110dmg proc roughly, and pgt. Argue if ya want, numbers prove the Vilian bow is best bow, and one most won't see, cause its a t5 fabled from deception and drayek kills. Pretty rare. What needs to be added is some good t6 non-crafted Legendary or better bows with procs, or with stats that make us want them. Like say a Special quested bow with good stats, and a self buff or something.Third and last, most hate rangers and rant about our DPS not cause of rangers but cause of thier own classes, and their function in groups and raids. Most don't see the function of say a brigand on a raid, just see scout and why are they not uber dps like rangers?  Well simply put, there is no other class in game thats soul purpose is dps. Even wizards and warlocks have utility spells and buffs. Rangers get one thing, DPS. Thats it, no more no less, just dps. When you come to reality with it, taking anything from a rangers dps, hurts everyone, and helps no one. Losing your mainstay DPS masters, Rangers, your raids suffer, group suffer and its something you come to reality really fast with. Rangers supply the main key thing on raids that can make and break fights, which is hate controlable dps, with steady supply of CA's aimed just to dish out pain. I'd love to see our self buff made into str instead of agi, and see more good str and int items. What most also dont look at is there are alternate ways to increase both stats, via armor, potions etc. And most thing they have to wear fabled to be cool. While fabled mitigation is better, honestly rangers shouldn't be getting hit anyhow. So make use of those higher int and str items out there. Lower mitigation on raids and groups isn't going to kill ya, infact you can always carry along extra armor for times you may need mitigation, but honestly i never need it. At 56, I'm buffing out at near 500str and over 200int most times, through good group setup from raid leaders. Its their job to make sure dps have thier buffs to increase their dps anyhow.  So, to make a point also, this thread is for rangers to talk to rangers about tactics, answer questions, and general ranger BS they wanna talk about. If you wanna post for dev's goto the testing forums and report it there. Where btw, they look the most for feedback. Also use ingame feedback and bug reporting.
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Chicco D'Mann
Half Elf - Ranger
Oasis Server
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