Templar Prestige - Page 4

PeterJohn · 11-08-2012, 01:55 AM

Wilin wrote:

Templar
Divinity's Aid and Divinity's Punishment should now have visual FX indicating they triggered.

Cool.

Wraith of Divinity now allows Involuntary Gift, Mark of Divinity, Healing Fate and Divine Fate to apply ain incremental effect to the templar. When the templar casts damage spells with this effect, they deal additional divine damage.

Will have to test to see how much dps this does. Sounds cool for a group/heroic spec.

Purification is now a damage shield that applies when Sanctify is cast. It can only trigger once every 3 seconds.

Interesting change. A lot better than a magic damage reflect IMO. Will have to test to see how limiting the limitation to triggering only every 3 seconds affects the dps output of this ability. But this sounds promising.

Divinity's Punishment has had its damage dramatically increased.

Damage from a single hit from this spell is now about equal to our Wrath spell damage. Since the effect is on the target for 6 seconds, but only 50% chance of procing per hit, probably should get 2-3 hits out of it. Will have to test, but looks like it will do some decent dps.

Barrier of Divinity has had its ward amount doubled.

This was a nice change. Still limited by its 6 seconds duration, but will absorb a hit on the target that was missed with a single target reactive heal plus more to boot.

Divine Protection now lasts for 6 seconds but cannot trigger on the same target again for 60 seconds.

Nice change. Will have to think about the 60 seconds trigger limitation, seems kind of long, but this sounds reasonable since now the target will get the damage reduction even after being healed back to full health. I think this ability meshes really well with our reactive style of healing, which tends to at least slow down damage until we can get the big heal or ward back on the MT, so this will allow a little buffer immediately after a big health spike.

Holy Army is now 0.5 potency per rank per increment.

Ouch! This one took a little hit. It used to be 2.1% potency per increment at rank 3, and now will be just 1.5% potency per increment at rank 3. Must have been considered overpowered. Since it affects group, this is still a super prestige ability and worth putting in the effort to maintain the 10 increments as much as you can when not having to heal.

Overall really nice changes. I'm impressed with both sides of the prestige tree now. I think I'm actually going to have a hard time settling on a raid spec.

Daalilama · 11-08-2012, 03:59 AM

Not glad with the nerf bat hitting holy army but....overall the changes are much much better then before....still looking for the power proc off divinity's mana to be tweaked better .4% per rank is not even noticeable. Still better then where we were few days ago.

PeterJohn · 11-08-2012, 09:18 AM

Doesn't count as a nerf if it never went to Live server. We are after all beta testing.

Remember the 0.4% power is per rank, so at rank 3, it will be restoring 1.2% AND this is groupwide. Hmm I did not check to see if this crits too.

---> Went on test, Divine Mana is procing about 601 power on me... power pool of almost exactly 50k, so that comes out to be exactly 1.2% power per proc, so no it does NOT crit for power.

Also tested the new Wrath of Divinity. To get the incremental damage, you have to cast the debuffs. Once they increment wears off after 30 seconds, you have to recast the debuffs to get the increments again. This includes having to recast Divine Fate of Healing again, which resets the 10% mob health drop heal on it. Booo. But I guess we are having to choose more dps or more healing at that point.

On an epic training dummy in heal spec, 2:23 min fight, total dps parse was 43.7k, Wrath of Divinity was 3.3k dps for 4th place on the dps parse, with crushing, Divine Smite, and Divine Strike beating it. Divinity Punishment did only 367 dps but average hit is 26k damage, almost exactly what Wrath hits for. Keep in mind that epic dummies don't hit back, so it takes forever for your reactives to wear off and proc the Divinity Punishment, so it would probably parse higher in real fights with MT eating up your reactives. Oveall this is looking like some decent dps output.

PeterJohn · 11-08-2012, 09:48 AM

Bugged! Holy Army

If I cast Sanctify on a raidmember not in my group, he does get the Sanctify buff on him with the 5 increments. However, as he takes damage, the increments go down, but Holy Army buff does not appear either on my effects window or his effects window. Neither group is getting the potency buff at all.

PeterJohn · 11-08-2012, 10:01 AM

Bugged! Divine Mana

When I cast my single target reactive on another group, the mana proc does not seem to be affecting either group once Divinity Aid appears on the target. Not completely sure since it might have just been bad luck with the 50% chance to proc thing. Will check later today, got to head to work.

Daalilama · 11-08-2012, 12:32 PM

PeterJohn wrote:

Doesn't count as a nerf if it never went to Live server. We are after all beta testing.
Remember the 0.4% power is per rank, so at rank 3, it will be restoring 1.2% AND this is groupwide. Hmm I did not check to see if this crits too.
---> Went on test, Divine Mana is procing about 601 power on me... power pool of almost exactly 50k, so that comes out to be exactly 1.2% power per proc, so no it does NOT crit for power.
Still somewhat weak for group power regen...not expecting us to get major power regen but 1.2% is kinda weak...still suggesting changing it from .4% to 1%...with 3 ranks it would be 3%...still not very overpowering at all but better than before.
Also tested the new Wrath of Divinity. To get the incremental damage, you have to cast the debuffs. Once they increment wears off after 30 seconds, you have to recast the debuffs to get the increments again. This includes having to recast Divine Fate of Healing again, which resets the 10% mob health drop heal on it. Booo. But I guess we are having to choose more dps or more healing at that point.
Yeah I agree looks like we have a bit of problem with Divine Fate of Healing and Wrath of Divinity. I remember initially why skyshrine prestige abilities were on test, one of the major requests was to drastically increase Divine Fate of Healing's duration from the barely 72 secs to the nice long duration of 3mins + now. So now we either let this prestige ability expire as usual and recast it again to get the subproc or we cancel early thus reseting its % trigger.
On an epic training dummy in heal spec, 2:23 min fight, total dps parse was 43.7k, Wrath of Divinity was 3.3k dps for 4th place on the dps parse, with crushing, Divine Smite, and Divine Strike beating it. Divinity Punishment did only 367 dps but average hit is 26k damage, almost exactly what Wrath hits for. Keep in mind that epic dummies don't hit back, so it takes forever for your reactives to wear off and proc the Divinity Punishment, so it would probably parse higher in real fights with MT eating up your reactives. Oveall this is looking like some decent dps output.

Xelgad, is there any possible work around on this issue with Wrath of Divinity and having to actually cancel and recast Divine Fate of Healing which would reset the % trigger for the raidwide heal? While having to refresh Mark of Divinity and Involuntary Gift to reset the damage subproc is not much of an issue as their passive abilities dont base their proc chance on the mobs health (where Divine Fate of Healing's passive heal with only proc as the mob hits the 10% health trigger mark and has an extremely nice long duration which we asked for and got thank you btw). Seems to me if we pick this ability we will essentially be negating the mechanics of Divine Fate of Healing.

Perhaps a change from Divine Fate of Healing as one of the proc passives to maybe another ability from the templar would be a better choice such as maybe our mitigation debuff simply because canceling early and refreshing to reset the subproc would not conflict with the mechanics as would be if kept as is.

PeterJohn · 11-08-2012, 12:58 PM

Daali, that is actually a good point. On the same path of the prestige tree that we get Divine Fate of Healing, a little further down that same path we are getting an endline that essentially negates that very ability!

The damage proc that you get lasts 30 seconds I think. (Not at my home PC.) So you will now have to refresh Divine Fate of Healing every 30 seconds in order to maintain the dps proc on your damage spells. Of course, if you are dpsing that intently, maybe it is because you don't really need the extra heals every 10% drop in the mobs health SMILEY

Regarding the group power proc, I believe that the amount of power regen is in line with what other classes are getting. And keep in mind that you can have single target reactives on multiple allies, each procing power for your entire group. This could add up VERY quickly. Especially if they fix the bug with no power procing when Divinity's Aid is cast on someone outside of your group.

Xelgad · 11-08-2012, 01:52 PM

If you recast any one of the debuffs within the duration of Wrath of Divinity, it should reset the duration up to its maximum (30 seconds on beta). With that said, I'll increase the duration so that you don't have to refresh the debuffs as early in order to maintain it.

Daalilama · 11-08-2012, 03:31 PM

PeterJohn wrote:

Daali, that is actually a good point. On the same path of the prestige tree that we get Divine Fate of Healing, a little further down that same path we are getting an endline that essentially negates that very ability!
The damage proc that you get lasts 30 seconds I think. (Not at my home PC.) So you will now have to refresh Divine Fate of Healing every 30 seconds in order to maintain the dps proc on your damage spells. Of course, if you are dpsing that intently, maybe it is because you don't really need the extra heals every 10% drop in the mobs health
Regarding the group power proc, I believe that the amount of power regen is in line with what other classes are getting. And keep in mind that you can have single target reactives on multiple allies, each procing power for your entire group. This could add up VERY quickly. Especially if they fix the bug with no power procing when Divinity's Aid is cast on someone outside of your group.

Every once in a while I brainstorm some good ones...I'll hold off judgment until we can see what sort of increase in duration Xelgad thinks is appropriate...still concerned somewhat about the overall mechanics of both trees but...considering what we were given when they hit beta and where we are now my conerns are easing a bit...

As for the % of power regened in Divinitys Mana...my concern is coming from a healer class that prior to these new prestige abilities had no inate ability to regen power unlike the rest of the healers...which is why I considered the regen amount regardless of how many people I can get my single target reactive on to start the subprocs kinda weak especially considering dets that drain power not in bits but bucket loads....still uneasy with that amount.

PeterJohn · 11-08-2012, 04:38 PM

Xelgad wrote:

If you recast any one of the debuffs within the duration of Wrath of Divinity, it should reset the duration up to its maximum (30 seconds on beta). With that said, I'll increase the duration so that you don't have to refresh the debuffs as early in order to maintain it.

Xelgad just to clarify the concern:

Divine Fate of Healing procs a heal every time the mob loses 10% health. However, the 10% health drop "resets" or starts over if you recast the spell on the same mob. The concern is that we are being forced to recast the Divine Fate of Healing after just 30 seconds in order to refresh the increments on Wrath of Divinity, which is causing the heal part of Divine Fate of Healing to not happen, ie the mob has to lose another 10% from that point on.

However, going back to Beta, I realized that my understanding of the spell was wrong. You correctly pointed out that any of our 3 debuffs will reset the time on Wrath back to 30 seconds. I thought you had to cast all 3 again in order to maintain the 3 increments, but casting any one of them will add an increment (to max of 3) and reset the timer to 30 seconds. So all is good. I withdraw my previous objection here.

Arweena69 · 11-08-2012, 04:45 PM

So running a group instance and I've speced down the left side and my thoughts so far:

Holy Army: Nerf was unneeded 6 Potency is really not that much these days so please put it back to the 2.1 per rank with 3 points in it If you won't give back the 6 potency please make the duration longer even doing a heroic zone with a guardian tank I'm having some trouble keeping the full 10 stack up with spamming sanctify on the tank every time I can. with a brawler on raid I just don't see how I'll keep the full 10 stack on the group which will make this next to useless.

Purification: I actually like the change to this, makes it far more useful. One request - can we get a trigger count on this one plz.

Divine Protection: This one is now completely worthless for a raider. The combination of the HP requirement and the time between possible triggers makes it an absolute waste. Tried it in a group zone and it was worthless in there, as it currently stands I can see absolutely no use for this ability under any situation.

So from doing some soloing My views on the right side:

Wrath of Divinity: Love this one. If you could make the buff last for 1 min so we aren't recasting the debuffs way more often than needed to keep it up that would be super but even uping it to a 45sec duration would be great. recasting ANY debuff does reset the timer on it.

Divinity's Aid: Still not sure how I feel about this one. I did swap from the double triggers at the top to the SDA/Flury on heal for the extra DPS and so it would drop off faster and that seems to help some. Testing this while soloing makes it a bit more difficult to really say how good this will be.

Divinity's Punishment: See Divinity's Aid

Divine Mana: See Divinity's Aid

Barrier of Divinity: See Divinity's Aid

Deific Reformation: Taking a bit of getting used to. I do like the super fast cast on it, but the recast seems a little long.

Restoring Devotion: I'm happy with this one as is, for the most part my reuse on raids is 1 to 2 seconds shy of me being able to get all the cures as it is, with the reuse being cut in half things should be good in MT for my guild.

I'll have to try and get some groupage in over the weekend with this spec and see how the Divinity's stuff works.

PeterJohn · 11-09-2012, 12:53 PM

Any word on bug fix for Divine Mana and Holy Army? They are not working when the abilities are cast on someone outside of your group in a raid. Hopefully this does not get lost in the discussion. Templars are not *always* in the MT group ya know SMILEY

PeterJohn · 11-10-2012, 04:55 PM

TemplarHoly Army will properly apply to the group of the player Sanctify was cast on.Divine Mana will now properly apply to the target's group.

TemplarWrath of Divinity now has a 72 second duration.

Daalilama · 11-11-2012, 12:39 AM

PeterJohn wrote:

TemplarHoly Army will properly apply to the group of the player Sanctify was cast on.Divine Mana will now properly apply to the target's group.
TemplarWrath of Divinity now has a 72 second duration.

Some updates hope they arent done yet...

havent had a chance to review them all since all the changes...but...

Xelgad regarding Holy Guide (small amount of base reuse off divine guidance) is it possible to get maybe a 5 or 10% boost to hp as well added onto this...currently as it stands 15 secs I believe it is off base reuse is ok but essentially meh as an endline. The % to hp while active is in line with what we can get via our aa line and adding a slight boost would be a nice endline pickup.

Arweena69 · 11-11-2012, 03:57 PM

Over all I'm VERY disapointed in the "defensive" skills in the Prestiege. From the testing I've done it looks like for a purely defensive spec I'll be going with double conversion + 2 pts into the 25% HP 1 pt into the 2 person heal and the fast reuse on my group cure.

I got a chance to test the left side in a raid and it was totally wortless, I was unable to reliablely keep more than 3 to 4 stacks of Holy Army on the group while keeping Sanctify on the SK tank we had full time. I've made my view on the damage reduction known previously so I'll just leave that one as it hasn't changed.

The 10sec reduction to the base reuse of DG is meh overall TBH, I don't tend to use DG as a part of my normal rotation so being able to cast it 15 sec faster isn't really neeeded.

For the right side, I just don't see the ward being worth letting my reactive expire on the tank and as much as I am all for helping out the MTGs DPS I WILL NOT do it at the risk of letting my tank die ... Just won't happen and if MTG NEEDS me to let my react expire for power to the group we have bigger issues that need need solved. As for the increased healing recieved well it doesn't apply to wards so really it doesn't help unless you're running no sham in the group OR there is a lot of no wardable dmg.

For a DPS pick the right side is fine as it does have some stuff that helps with the primary roll of the templar but if the left side is supposed to be our "defensive" side it's seriously lacking in desirability.

Daalilama · 11-11-2012, 08:07 PM

[email protected]_old wrote:

Over all I'm VERY disapointed in the "defensive" skills in the Prestiege. From the testing I've done it looks like for a purely defensive spec I'll be going with double conversion + 2 pts into the 25% HP 1 pt into the 2 person heal and the fast reuse on my group cure.
I got a chance to test the left side in a raid and it was totally wortless, I was unable to reliablely keep more than 3 to 4 stacks of Holy Army on the group while keeping Sanctify on the SK tank we had full time. I've made my view on the damage reduction known previously so I'll just leave that one as it hasn't changed.
The 10sec reduction to the base reuse of DG is meh overall TBH, I don't tend to use DG as a part of my normal rotation so being able to cast it 15 sec faster isn't really neeeded.
For the right side, I just don't see the ward being worth letting my reactive expire on the tank and as much as I am all for helping out the MTGs DPS I WILL NOT do it at the risk of letting my tank die ... Just won't happen and if MTG NEEDS me to let my react expire for power to the group we have bigger issues that need need solved. As for the increased healing recieved well it doesn't apply to wards so really it doesn't help unless you're running no sham in the group OR there is a lot of no wardable dmg.
For a DPS pick the right side is fine as it does have some stuff that helps with the primary roll of the templar but if the left side is supposed to be our "defensive" side it's seriously lacking in desirability.

Agreed...left side still looking a bit lacking in some areas....like I said the endline for shorter base recast of DG is not feeling in any sort of way worthy of our new defensive endline...at least add %hp buff to it....if we go forward as is to live...I'll more than likely pick the right tree and middle choices...or a hybrid version....still somewhat uneasy on right side mechanics of letting my single target expire naturally to get the subprocs rolling.

Dahmer · 11-11-2012, 11:18 PM

I did beta raid testing after the changes and speced for the right side. I don't see much of an incentive to spec left.

The endline as i have mentioned before is bleh~ I'm also not exactly sure why our damage reduction is double penilized. It already won't proc if your tank isn't under 50% and now we have a 1 minute restriction on it also. Ew. Even if i were to spec this line i won't spec that.

Also~ no way are templars going to be solo curing this xpac. If that were some of your expections, it's not going to happen. If you choose or make the decsion to forgo a cure rotation with a shammy, your going to be fully dependent on outside programs for spell timers. Choosing whatever aoe you feel is most lethal and baubbling/Singletargeting/hoping your shammy is paying attention, If something hits within the 5 second timer. I know a few of you made coments about templars solo curing/healing, and it's not going to happen.

PeterJohn · 11-12-2012, 01:50 PM

I did not have any chance to run raids during beta. I personally was thinking left side of prestige tree would be better for raids. The right side seems better for heroic instances, where running out of single target reactives is not so potentially harsh on the tank.

I agree that the "once per 60 seconds" limit on the (left side of the tree) damage reduction is questionable. You are correct that it is already limited by the 50% health drop, so rather odd that it also gets limited by time as well. But I think that is the tradeoff they gave for having the duration now last 6 seconds.

I would wonder if you thought having it last 3 seconds with unlimited procs would be better? This would allow the tank a chance to get healed out of the danger zone of low health, with damage reduction during that time?

Dahmer · 11-12-2012, 04:06 PM

For this content it makes no sense specing left over right in a raid enviroment. Really what do you loose? an HP buff, a little bit of grp pot, and a damage reduction that that you will never see proc...Why? because the encounters don't hit hard at all. Even the challenge mob we killed our tank didn't spike below 80%. The most challenging aspect of the xpac from what i seen was the cures (none of which were hard hitting, just had stupid effects like power drains/control effects/and my personal fav the "you have two seconds to cure this or you explode!" and that was on the challenge encounter. Why would i take that side when i can get slightly more personal dps from the right? As i mentioned in earliar posts i'm not concerned of the 1 second down time of Vital, and if you stack your reactives you wouldn't be that concered aswell. The only thing it stinks for is procs, but the ward gain i feel balences it out. You just have to pay attention to your maintained window, which if you a your raiding, is something you should already be doing. Unless they have made some adjustments in this content since Thursday i really don't see any incentive in specing left. It would be nice to see an minor adjustments made to that endline but i feel as though that time has passed.

PeterJohn · 11-12-2012, 06:39 PM

Hmmm were the raid fights in their final versions? I heard that many of their special effects were turned off and on for testing, so not sure if those are the final fight versions.

If the devs decided to go with less damage and more curing, that is exactly what templars stink at. But I guess we will find out when the xpac hits live if templars have a place in raids then.

As an aside, I don't see the +25% health on the MT as being trivial. That is actually a pretty good buff if you can maintain the effect on the tank.

Arweena69 · 11-12-2012, 06:56 PM

PeterJohn wrote:

As an aside, I don't see the +25% health on the MT as being trivial. That is actually a pretty good buff if you can maintain the effect on the tank.

The 25% HP is only good if the fights make it needed. If the tank is never taking enough dmg to go through the defilers wards more than 10% of the tanks HPs an extra 25% HP on the tank means nothing.

My previous posts about the left side were to say that from a defensive standpoint there is no defensive spec, having not done the challenge mode encounters myself I can't say that we need really NEED a defensive spec. Going based on what I've seen here and on other threads though it looks like going for some extra DPS is gonna be it for us since there is no need for the extra defensive abilities this Xpack.

So looks like I'll be getting to see what I can do to up my DPS in raid since Punishment gives all the DPS to me not the other members of my group this is where I <3 having an assassin, dirge, and monk that are all good about smacking mobs regularly in my group hehe

PeterJohn · 11-12-2012, 11:48 PM

Been playing around with Seraph's Restoration a bit... Seems that it NEVER resets the recast timer on True Faith. Either it is bugged or the proc rate is just so low that it is useless. Can the proc rate to reset True Faith be increased quite a bit, like maybe instead of 4%, make it like 20%? The 4% is just soooo low.

Edit: Okay spamming it every time it comes up, I do see True Faith get reset every once in a while. But this is with me spamming a spell which, since I am spamming it, now accounts for 200 HPS out of 11000 HPS zonewide in ST... That means having to spam a spell that accounts for 1.8% of my heals.

If you hit Seraph's Restoration, you can cast it about 21 times before True Faith recast timer is completed normally. If you hit it all 21 times, you have a 57% chance that at some point you will have reset the recast timer on True Faith. This is just too low for this proc.

I know this is old prestige ability, but I'm actually starting to use it more since I might still go left side of prestige tree which means Seraphs instead of Divine Fate of Healing.

11-08-2012, 01:55 AM	#91
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Wilin wrote: Templar Divinity's Aid and Divinity's Punishment should now have visual FX indicating they triggered. Cool. Wraith of Divinity now allows Involuntary Gift, Mark of Divinity, Healing Fate and Divine Fate to apply ain incremental effect to the templar. When the templar casts damage spells with this effect, they deal additional divine damage. Will have to test to see how much dps this does. Sounds cool for a group/heroic spec. Purification is now a damage shield that applies when Sanctify is cast. It can only trigger once every 3 seconds. Interesting change. A lot better than a magic damage reflect IMO. Will have to test to see how limiting the limitation to triggering only every 3 seconds affects the dps output of this ability. But this sounds promising. Divinity's Punishment has had its damage dramatically increased. Damage from a single hit from this spell is now about equal to our Wrath spell damage. Since the effect is on the target for 6 seconds, but only 50% chance of procing per hit, probably should get 2-3 hits out of it. Will have to test, but looks like it will do some decent dps. Barrier of Divinity has had its ward amount doubled. This was a nice change. Still limited by its 6 seconds duration, but will absorb a hit on the target that was missed with a single target reactive heal plus more to boot. Divine Protection now lasts for 6 seconds but cannot trigger on the same target again for 60 seconds. Nice change. Will have to think about the 60 seconds trigger limitation, seems kind of long, but this sounds reasonable since now the target will get the damage reduction even after being healed back to full health. I think this ability meshes really well with our reactive style of healing, which tends to at least slow down damage until we can get the big heal or ward back on the MT, so this will allow a little buffer immediately after a big health spike. Holy Army is now 0.5 potency per rank per increment. Ouch! This one took a little hit. It used to be 2.1% potency per increment at rank 3, and now will be just 1.5% potency per increment at rank 3. Must have been considered overpowered. Since it affects group, this is still a super prestige ability and worth putting in the effort to maintain the 10 increments as much as you can when not having to heal. Overall really nice changes. I'm impressed with both sides of the prestige tree now. I think I'm actually going to have a hard time settling on a raid spec.

11-08-2012, 12:32 PM	#96
Daalilama Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 437	PeterJohn wrote: Doesn't count as a nerf if it never went to Live server. We are after all beta testing. Remember the 0.4% power is per rank, so at rank 3, it will be restoring 1.2% AND this is groupwide. Hmm I did not check to see if this crits too. ---> Went on test, Divine Mana is procing about 601 power on me... power pool of almost exactly 50k, so that comes out to be exactly 1.2% power per proc, so no it does NOT crit for power. Still somewhat weak for group power regen...not expecting us to get major power regen but 1.2% is kinda weak...still suggesting changing it from .4% to 1%...with 3 ranks it would be 3%...still not very overpowering at all but better than before. Also tested the new Wrath of Divinity. To get the incremental damage, you have to cast the debuffs. Once they increment wears off after 30 seconds, you have to recast the debuffs to get the increments again. This includes having to recast Divine Fate of Healing again, which resets the 10% mob health drop heal on it. Booo. But I guess we are having to choose more dps or more healing at that point. Yeah I agree looks like we have a bit of problem with Divine Fate of Healing and Wrath of Divinity. I remember initially why skyshrine prestige abilities were on test, one of the major requests was to drastically increase Divine Fate of Healing's duration from the barely 72 secs to the nice long duration of 3mins + now. So now we either let this prestige ability expire as usual and recast it again to get the subproc or we cancel early thus reseting its % trigger. On an epic training dummy in heal spec, 2:23 min fight, total dps parse was 43.7k, Wrath of Divinity was 3.3k dps for 4th place on the dps parse, with crushing, Divine Smite, and Divine Strike beating it. Divinity Punishment did only 367 dps but average hit is 26k damage, almost exactly what Wrath hits for. Keep in mind that epic dummies don't hit back, so it takes forever for your reactives to wear off and proc the Divinity Punishment, so it would probably parse higher in real fights with MT eating up your reactives. Oveall this is looking like some decent dps output. Xelgad, is there any possible work around on this issue with Wrath of Divinity and having to actually cancel and recast Divine Fate of Healing which would reset the % trigger for the raidwide heal? While having to refresh Mark of Divinity and Involuntary Gift to reset the damage subproc is not much of an issue as their passive abilities dont base their proc chance on the mobs health (where Divine Fate of Healing's passive heal with only proc as the mob hits the 10% health trigger mark and has an extremely nice long duration which we asked for and got thank you btw). Seems to me if we pick this ability we will essentially be negating the mechanics of Divine Fate of Healing. Perhaps a change from Divine Fate of Healing as one of the proc passives to maybe another ability from the templar would be a better choice such as maybe our mitigation debuff simply because canceling early and refreshing to reset the subproc would not conflict with the mechanics as would be if kept as is.

11-08-2012, 12:58 PM	#97
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Daali, that is actually a good point. On the same path of the prestige tree that we get Divine Fate of Healing, a little further down that same path we are getting an endline that essentially negates that very ability! The damage proc that you get lasts 30 seconds I think. (Not at my home PC.) So you will now have to refresh Divine Fate of Healing every 30 seconds in order to maintain the dps proc on your damage spells. Of course, if you are dpsing that intently, maybe it is because you don't really need the extra heals every 10% drop in the mobs health Regarding the group power proc, I believe that the amount of power regen is in line with what other classes are getting. And keep in mind that you can have single target reactives on multiple allies, each procing power for your entire group. This could add up VERY quickly. Especially if they fix the bug with no power procing when Divinity's Aid is cast on someone outside of your group.

11-08-2012, 01:52 PM	#98
Xelgad Game Designer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 199	If you recast any one of the debuffs within the duration of Wrath of Divinity, it should reset the duration up to its maximum (30 seconds on beta). With that said, I'll increase the duration so that you don't have to refresh the debuffs as early in order to maintain it. __________________ <img src="http://signavatar.com/files/sigs/3355_3.jpg">

11-08-2012, 03:31 PM	#99
Daalilama Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 437	PeterJohn wrote: Daali, that is actually a good point. On the same path of the prestige tree that we get Divine Fate of Healing, a little further down that same path we are getting an endline that essentially negates that very ability! The damage proc that you get lasts 30 seconds I think. (Not at my home PC.) So you will now have to refresh Divine Fate of Healing every 30 seconds in order to maintain the dps proc on your damage spells. Of course, if you are dpsing that intently, maybe it is because you don't really need the extra heals every 10% drop in the mobs health Regarding the group power proc, I believe that the amount of power regen is in line with what other classes are getting. And keep in mind that you can have single target reactives on multiple allies, each procing power for your entire group. This could add up VERY quickly. Especially if they fix the bug with no power procing when Divinity's Aid is cast on someone outside of your group. Every once in a while I brainstorm some good ones...I'll hold off judgment until we can see what sort of increase in duration Xelgad thinks is appropriate...still concerned somewhat about the overall mechanics of both trees but...considering what we were given when they hit beta and where we are now my conerns are easing a bit... As for the % of power regened in Divinitys Mana...my concern is coming from a healer class that prior to these new prestige abilities had no inate ability to regen power unlike the rest of the healers...which is why I considered the regen amount regardless of how many people I can get my single target reactive on to start the subprocs kinda weak especially considering dets that drain power not in bits but bucket loads....still uneasy with that amount.

11-08-2012, 03:59 AM	#92
Daalilama Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 437	Not glad with the nerf bat hitting holy army but....overall the changes are much much better then before....still looking for the power proc off divinity's mana to be tweaked better .4% per rank is not even noticeable. Still better then where we were few days ago.

11-08-2012, 09:18 AM	#93
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Doesn't count as a nerf if it never went to Live server. We are after all beta testing. Remember the 0.4% power is per rank, so at rank 3, it will be restoring 1.2% AND this is groupwide. Hmm I did not check to see if this crits too. ---> Went on test, Divine Mana is procing about 601 power on me... power pool of almost exactly 50k, so that comes out to be exactly 1.2% power per proc, so no it does NOT crit for power. Also tested the new Wrath of Divinity. To get the incremental damage, you have to cast the debuffs. Once they increment wears off after 30 seconds, you have to recast the debuffs to get the increments again. This includes having to recast Divine Fate of Healing again, which resets the 10% mob health drop heal on it. Booo. But I guess we are having to choose more dps or more healing at that point. On an epic training dummy in heal spec, 2:23 min fight, total dps parse was 43.7k, Wrath of Divinity was 3.3k dps for 4th place on the dps parse, with crushing, Divine Smite, and Divine Strike beating it. Divinity Punishment did only 367 dps but average hit is 26k damage, almost exactly what Wrath hits for. Keep in mind that epic dummies don't hit back, so it takes forever for your reactives to wear off and proc the Divinity Punishment, so it would probably parse higher in real fights with MT eating up your reactives. Oveall this is looking like some decent dps output.

11-08-2012, 09:48 AM	#94
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Bugged! Holy Army If I cast Sanctify on a raidmember not in my group, he does get the Sanctify buff on him with the 5 increments. However, as he takes damage, the increments go down, but Holy Army buff does not appear either on my effects window or his effects window. Neither group is getting the potency buff at all.

11-08-2012, 10:01 AM	#95
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Bugged! Divine Mana When I cast my single target reactive on another group, the mana proc does not seem to be affecting either group once Divinity Aid appears on the target. Not completely sure since it might have just been bad luck with the 50% chance to proc thing. Will check later today, got to head to work.

11-08-2012, 04:38 PM	#100
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Xelgad wrote: If you recast any one of the debuffs within the duration of Wrath of Divinity, it should reset the duration up to its maximum (30 seconds on beta). With that said, I'll increase the duration so that you don't have to refresh the debuffs as early in order to maintain it. Xelgad just to clarify the concern: Divine Fate of Healing procs a heal every time the mob loses 10% health. However, the 10% health drop "resets" or starts over if you recast the spell on the same mob. The concern is that we are being forced to recast the Divine Fate of Healing after just 30 seconds in order to refresh the increments on Wrath of Divinity, which is causing the heal part of Divine Fate of Healing to not happen, ie the mob has to lose another 10% from that point on. However, going back to Beta, I realized that my understanding of the spell was wrong. You correctly pointed out that any of our 3 debuffs will reset the time on Wrath back to 30 seconds. I thought you had to cast all 3 again in order to maintain the 3 increments, but casting any one of them will add an increment (to max of 3) and reset the timer to 30 seconds. So all is good. I withdraw my previous objection here.

11-08-2012, 04:45 PM	#101
Arweena69 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 105	So running a group instance and I've speced down the left side and my thoughts so far: Holy Army: Nerf was unneeded 6 Potency is really not that much these days so please put it back to the 2.1 per rank with 3 points in it If you won't give back the 6 potency please make the duration longer even doing a heroic zone with a guardian tank I'm having some trouble keeping the full 10 stack up with spamming sanctify on the tank every time I can. with a brawler on raid I just don't see how I'll keep the full 10 stack on the group which will make this next to useless. Purification: I actually like the change to this, makes it far more useful. One request - can we get a trigger count on this one plz. Divine Protection: This one is now completely worthless for a raider. The combination of the HP requirement and the time between possible triggers makes it an absolute waste. Tried it in a group zone and it was worthless in there, as it currently stands I can see absolutely no use for this ability under any situation. So from doing some soloing My views on the right side: Wrath of Divinity: Love this one. If you could make the buff last for 1 min so we aren't recasting the debuffs way more often than needed to keep it up that would be super but even uping it to a 45sec duration would be great. recasting ANY debuff does reset the timer on it. Divinity's Aid: Still not sure how I feel about this one. I did swap from the double triggers at the top to the SDA/Flury on heal for the extra DPS and so it would drop off faster and that seems to help some. Testing this while soloing makes it a bit more difficult to really say how good this will be. Divinity's Punishment: See Divinity's Aid Divine Mana: See Divinity's Aid Barrier of Divinity: See Divinity's Aid Deific Reformation: Taking a bit of getting used to. I do like the super fast cast on it, but the recast seems a little long. Restoring Devotion: I'm happy with this one as is, for the most part my reuse on raids is 1 to 2 seconds shy of me being able to get all the cures as it is, with the reuse being cut in half things should be good in MT for my guild. I'll have to try and get some groupage in over the weekend with this spec and see how the Divinity's stuff works.

11-09-2012, 12:53 PM	#102
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Any word on bug fix for Divine Mana and Holy Army? They are not working when the abilities are cast on someone outside of your group in a raid. Hopefully this does not get lost in the discussion. Templars are not always in the MT group ya know

11-10-2012, 04:55 PM	#103
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	TemplarHoly Army will properly apply to the group of the player Sanctify was cast on.Divine Mana will now properly apply to the target's group. TemplarWrath of Divinity now has a 72 second duration.

11-11-2012, 12:39 AM	#104
Daalilama Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 437	PeterJohn wrote: TemplarHoly Army will properly apply to the group of the player Sanctify was cast on.Divine Mana will now properly apply to the target's group. TemplarWrath of Divinity now has a 72 second duration. Some updates hope they arent done yet... havent had a chance to review them all since all the changes...but... Xelgad regarding Holy Guide (small amount of base reuse off divine guidance) is it possible to get maybe a 5 or 10% boost to hp as well added onto this...currently as it stands 15 secs I believe it is off base reuse is ok but essentially meh as an endline. The % to hp while active is in line with what we can get via our aa line and adding a slight boost would be a nice endline pickup.

11-11-2012, 03:57 PM	#105
Arweena69 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 105	Over all I'm VERY disapointed in the "defensive" skills in the Prestiege. From the testing I've done it looks like for a purely defensive spec I'll be going with double conversion + 2 pts into the 25% HP 1 pt into the 2 person heal and the fast reuse on my group cure. I got a chance to test the left side in a raid and it was totally wortless, I was unable to reliablely keep more than 3 to 4 stacks of Holy Army on the group while keeping Sanctify on the SK tank we had full time. I've made my view on the damage reduction known previously so I'll just leave that one as it hasn't changed. The 10sec reduction to the base reuse of DG is meh overall TBH, I don't tend to use DG as a part of my normal rotation so being able to cast it 15 sec faster isn't really neeeded. For the right side, I just don't see the ward being worth letting my reactive expire on the tank and as much as I am all for helping out the MTGs DPS I WILL NOT do it at the risk of letting my tank die ... Just won't happen and if MTG NEEDS me to let my react expire for power to the group we have bigger issues that need need solved. As for the increased healing recieved well it doesn't apply to wards so really it doesn't help unless you're running no sham in the group OR there is a lot of no wardable dmg. For a DPS pick the right side is fine as it does have some stuff that helps with the primary roll of the templar but if the left side is supposed to be our "defensive" side it's seriously lacking in desirability.

11-11-2012, 08:07 PM	#106
Daalilama Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 437	[email protected]_old wrote: Over all I'm VERY disapointed in the "defensive" skills in the Prestiege. From the testing I've done it looks like for a purely defensive spec I'll be going with double conversion + 2 pts into the 25% HP 1 pt into the 2 person heal and the fast reuse on my group cure. I got a chance to test the left side in a raid and it was totally wortless, I was unable to reliablely keep more than 3 to 4 stacks of Holy Army on the group while keeping Sanctify on the SK tank we had full time. I've made my view on the damage reduction known previously so I'll just leave that one as it hasn't changed. The 10sec reduction to the base reuse of DG is meh overall TBH, I don't tend to use DG as a part of my normal rotation so being able to cast it 15 sec faster isn't really neeeded. For the right side, I just don't see the ward being worth letting my reactive expire on the tank and as much as I am all for helping out the MTGs DPS I WILL NOT do it at the risk of letting my tank die ... Just won't happen and if MTG NEEDS me to let my react expire for power to the group we have bigger issues that need need solved. As for the increased healing recieved well it doesn't apply to wards so really it doesn't help unless you're running no sham in the group OR there is a lot of no wardable dmg. For a DPS pick the right side is fine as it does have some stuff that helps with the primary roll of the templar but if the left side is supposed to be our "defensive" side it's seriously lacking in desirability. Agreed...left side still looking a bit lacking in some areas....like I said the endline for shorter base recast of DG is not feeling in any sort of way worthy of our new defensive endline...at least add %hp buff to it....if we go forward as is to live...I'll more than likely pick the right tree and middle choices...or a hybrid version....still somewhat uneasy on right side mechanics of letting my single target expire naturally to get the subprocs rolling.

11-11-2012, 11:18 PM	#107
Dahmer Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 64	I did beta raid testing after the changes and speced for the right side. I don't see much of an incentive to spec left. The endline as i have mentioned before is bleh~ I'm also not exactly sure why our damage reduction is double penilized. It already won't proc if your tank isn't under 50% and now we have a 1 minute restriction on it also. Ew. Even if i were to spec this line i won't spec that. Also~ no way are templars going to be solo curing this xpac. If that were some of your expections, it's not going to happen. If you choose or make the decsion to forgo a cure rotation with a shammy, your going to be fully dependent on outside programs for spell timers. Choosing whatever aoe you feel is most lethal and baubbling/Singletargeting/hoping your shammy is paying attention, If something hits within the 5 second timer. I know a few of you made coments about templars solo curing/healing, and it's not going to happen.

11-12-2012, 01:50 PM	#108
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	I did not have any chance to run raids during beta. I personally was thinking left side of prestige tree would be better for raids. The right side seems better for heroic instances, where running out of single target reactives is not so potentially harsh on the tank. I agree that the "once per 60 seconds" limit on the (left side of the tree) damage reduction is questionable. You are correct that it is already limited by the 50% health drop, so rather odd that it also gets limited by time as well. But I think that is the tradeoff they gave for having the duration now last 6 seconds. I would wonder if you thought having it last 3 seconds with unlimited procs would be better? This would allow the tank a chance to get healed out of the danger zone of low health, with damage reduction during that time?

11-12-2012, 04:06 PM	#109
Dahmer Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 64	For this content it makes no sense specing left over right in a raid enviroment. Really what do you loose? an HP buff, a little bit of grp pot, and a damage reduction that that you will never see proc...Why? because the encounters don't hit hard at all. Even the challenge mob we killed our tank didn't spike below 80%. The most challenging aspect of the xpac from what i seen was the cures (none of which were hard hitting, just had stupid effects like power drains/control effects/and my personal fav the "you have two seconds to cure this or you explode!" and that was on the challenge encounter. Why would i take that side when i can get slightly more personal dps from the right? As i mentioned in earliar posts i'm not concerned of the 1 second down time of Vital, and if you stack your reactives you wouldn't be that concered aswell. The only thing it stinks for is procs, but the ward gain i feel balences it out. You just have to pay attention to your maintained window, which if you a your raiding, is something you should already be doing. Unless they have made some adjustments in this content since Thursday i really don't see any incentive in specing left. It would be nice to see an minor adjustments made to that endline but i feel as though that time has passed.

11-12-2012, 06:39 PM	#110
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Hmmm were the raid fights in their final versions? I heard that many of their special effects were turned off and on for testing, so not sure if those are the final fight versions. If the devs decided to go with less damage and more curing, that is exactly what templars stink at. But I guess we will find out when the xpac hits live if templars have a place in raids then. As an aside, I don't see the +25% health on the MT as being trivial. That is actually a pretty good buff if you can maintain the effect on the tank.

11-12-2012, 06:56 PM	#111
Arweena69 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 105	PeterJohn wrote: As an aside, I don't see the +25% health on the MT as being trivial. That is actually a pretty good buff if you can maintain the effect on the tank. The 25% HP is only good if the fights make it needed. If the tank is never taking enough dmg to go through the defilers wards more than 10% of the tanks HPs an extra 25% HP on the tank means nothing. My previous posts about the left side were to say that from a defensive standpoint there is no defensive spec, having not done the challenge mode encounters myself I can't say that we need really NEED a defensive spec. Going based on what I've seen here and on other threads though it looks like going for some extra DPS is gonna be it for us since there is no need for the extra defensive abilities this Xpack. So looks like I'll be getting to see what I can do to up my DPS in raid since Punishment gives all the DPS to me not the other members of my group this is where I <3 having an assassin, dirge, and monk that are all good about smacking mobs regularly in my group hehe

11-12-2012, 11:48 PM	#112
PeterJohn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 525	Been playing around with Seraph's Restoration a bit... Seems that it NEVER resets the recast timer on True Faith. Either it is bugged or the proc rate is just so low that it is useless. Can the proc rate to reset True Faith be increased quite a bit, like maybe instead of 4%, make it like 20%? The 4% is just soooo low. Edit: Okay spamming it every time it comes up, I do see True Faith get reset every once in a while. But this is with me spamming a spell which, since I am spamming it, now accounts for 200 HPS out of 11000 HPS zonewide in ST... That means having to spam a spell that accounts for 1.8% of my heals. If you hit Seraph's Restoration, you can cast it about 21 times before True Faith recast timer is completed normally. If you hit it all 21 times, you have a 57% chance that at some point you will have reset the recast timer on True Faith. This is just too low for this proc. I know this is old prestige ability, but I'm actually starting to use it more since I might still go left side of prestige tree which means Seraphs instead of Divine Fate of Healing.