Templar Prestige

[PeterJohn]

Arabani wrote:

New templar group cure is faster then inq's. With 5 sec recast you can just spam it and cure everything. Also right line and single reactive enchance is op. left is just ok, not realy worth it.

Ummm having one cure on a 5 sec timer is not "faster" than having 2 cures on a 10 second timer. It just takes away the flexibility of being able to hit both group cures immediately after the other when needed. So inferior to inquisitor group cures, but still great upgrade from what we had before.

Not sure why single reactive enhance is op. Going to have to see what the numbers actually look like once I can spend prestige points in that line. And saying I am going to recast my reactive the instant it goes down is nice in theory, but still highly likely to result in hits that happen on the target without a reactive up, which might offset the damage reduction a lot.

Also if multiattack hits cause a buff increment to go away, the damage reduction might be up for only 1 round of multiattack hits. Will have to test this still.

[Dahmer]

Arabani wrote:

New templar group cure is faster then inq's. With 5 sec recast you can just spam it and cure everything. Also right line and single reactive enchance is op. left is just ok, not realy worth it.

The inquiz cure is at .5 seconds and cures two levels of detriments. There second one cures 1 with a reuse of 10 seconds.

[Arabani]

Dahmer wrote:

Arabani wrote:

New templar group cure is faster then inq's. With 5 sec recast you can just spam it and cure everything. Also right line and single reactive enchance is op. left is just ok, not realy worth it.

The inquiz cure is at .5 seconds and cures two levels of detriments. There second one cures 1 with a reuse of 10 seconds.

And? Please remind me at least one raid encounter where you need to cure two detrements at once, or second hit faster then 5 sec.

Inq's cure is still better overal, because of no powercost and 0.5 s cast time, but templars will be able to cure faster.

[Avirodar]

Dahmer wrote:

PeterJohn wrote:

Good point. However, that is what the shaman group cure is for

Honestly, I see our role as one of the 2 MT healers ideally. Having this faster group cure will allow us to handle most of the cures in most of the fights, which will make the shaman happy.

Yes inquisitors and druids are still going to be superior curers. We just won't be at such a huge disadvantage as we were before.

Not when one of the aoes is a stiffle effect and they double stack~ Vallon, Gloktus are a few names i can think of off the top of my head.

I am posting on behalf of : "Greater Fervor", "Steadfast Defiance" and "Steadfast Resolve". These runes wanted to advise that they are easily obtainable, easily maintainable, and are amazing when used as required.I am also posting with the full support of : "Relic of Stability", "Symbol of Stability", "Relic of Clear Voice" and "Symbol of Clear Voice", and the late declaration from the "Freedom of Mind" potion federation. All easily accessible, to cover those "Oh No" moments.Also wanting to weigh in on the debate is "Steadfast" and "Impenetrable Faith". Both of the aforementioned procs, would like to reinforce that they are not chopped liver, and should be used in accordance to need, based on encounter design.On behalf of all my clients, I would like to ask... Are you really having problems with the occasional AE having a stifle component? Does your mystic think they are "too good" to have to use effect immunities? Do your shamans have problems coordinating cures with the cleric? If so, I can tell you what the problem is, and it is not the occasional AE having a stifle on it.Problems with effects of the same category stacking, are very few and far between. And the game already provides us the tools to deal with them.

[Dahmer]

Arabani wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

Arabani wrote:

New templar group cure is faster then inq's. With 5 sec recast you can just spam it and cure everything. Also right line and single reactive enchance is op. left is just ok, not realy worth it.

The inquiz cure is at .5 seconds and cures two levels of detriments. There second one cures 1 with a reuse of 10 seconds.

And? Please remind me at least one raid encounter where you need to cure two detrements at once, or second hit faster then 5 sec.

Inq's cure is still better overal, because of no powercost and 0.5 s cast time, but templars will be able to cure faster.

There are no mobs in current raid content who have multiple aoes in 5 seconds (Unless of course those aoes are from adds)

Well if you read this thread i gave a few examples of mobs whos aoes would double stack. I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by curing faster? The actual cast time of the cure remains the same, it's just the base recast that is being adjusted. The inq myth cure does cure faster.

[Avirodar]

Dahmer wrote:

Arabani wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

Arabani wrote:

New templar group cure is faster then inq's. With 5 sec recast you can just spam it and cure everything. Also right line and single reactive enchance is op. left is just ok, not realy worth it.

The inquiz cure is at .5 seconds and cures two levels of detriments. There second one cures 1 with a reuse of 10 seconds.

And? Please remind me at least one raid encounter where you need to cure two detrements at once, or second hit faster then 5 sec.

Inq's cure is still better overal, because of no powercost and 0.5 s cast time, but templars will be able to cure faster.

There are no mobs in current raid content who have multiple aoes in 5 seconds (Unless of course those aoes are from adds)

Well if you read this thread i gave a few examples of mobs whos aoes would double stack. I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by curing faster? The actual cast time of the cure remains the same, it's just the base recast that is being adjusted. The inq myth cure does cure faster.

The incoming Group Cure casting rates per minute:If any numbers are wrong, please let me know. Not in the game so I am running off memoryTemp Regular: 10 per minute    (1s cast, 5s reuse, 6s total)Inq regular : 5.5 per minute      (1s cast, 10s reuse, 11s total)Inq Mythie : 7.5 per minute      (0.5s cast, 7.5s reuse, 8s total)So who is faster? The Inq still has a slight edge. Only slight, and it is due to a mythical ability.Stacking issues are far less common than they used to be. DoVpt1 days are gone. Oh how I miss Tormax! We ran through Vallons only a few days ago, with a Templar+Defiler in the MTG. The defiler was never required to use VOA. Will keep an eye on it next time we go there, to see if the outcome is any different.In practical effect, the reduction in reuse rate allows Templars to crank out group cures at a similar rate to Inquisitors. It is very rare that an Inquisitor is stretched to the limit for cure output, thus diminishing the gap in actual gameplay. And it is only when AEs of same effect categories stack (eg: Elemental+Elemental), that the curing of an Inquisitor will have an edge. But such occurances are very limited, and Templars should have a Shaman + Manacure + Immunities + Cure_Clickies to get through it.

[Daalilama]

Well it does look like they did read some of our suggestions on issues with the templar, i.e. group cure reduced to 5 secs with the prestige line(like I suggested as others long ago)...its not a second group cure but I think its the best we will ever get...somewhat concerned but not seriously with the occasional stacked dets....

As for the rest of our new lines gotta agree seems almost meh skatterbrained on them.

As for relying on manacure avi...its proc rate is absolute garbage dont think I've ever seen it proc more than a few times in an entire raid zone regardless of who I put it on.

[PeterJohn]

[email protected] wrote:

Well it does look like they did read some of our suggestions on issues with the templar, i.e. group cure reduced to 5 secs with the prestige line(like I suggested as others long ago)...its not a second group cure but I think its the best we will ever get...somewhat concerned but not seriously with the occasional stacked dets....

Agree here 100%. I don't expect them to make us as good a curer as the Inquisitor, who has that niche due to a mythical effect, that should remain respected. We will be fine with the new fast recast time.

As for the rest of our new lines gotta agree seems almost meh skatterbrained on them.

Really hard to judge these until I can see what they look like with full prestige points applied.

As for relying on manacure avi...its proc rate is absolute garbage dont think I've ever seen it proc more than a few times in an entire raid zone regardless of who I put it on.

Manacure procs more often if your healers are terrible and leave dets up long enough for Mancure to actually cure them. If your healers are good and precuring, you will see Manacure parse almost nothing.

[Daalilama]

While this thread concerns the prestige abilities I'm hoping they decide to check some of our broken/useless aa abilities/spells...manacure/blessings/overconfidence(seriously did anyone ever take this)/smith wrath(kinda time to drop the beneficial spell immunity).

K I derailed the thread enough back to the prestige.

[Helmarf]

Everything looks ok by the first look of it. 5 sec recast on groupcure is perfect and just what the templar class needs.

Trying the new stuff out atm on beta and i cant say nothing is realy bad or to op as it is realy hard to tell how the new raids are designed.

[Dahmer]

To start, One of the more noticable diffrences between the templar prestiges and other healers is that there really is no direct "healing" or "Dps" line. I'll touch base on this more later.

I also make some comparisons to other classes. Don't get upset. It's not a plea for any nerfs, only a suggestion for templar abilitys to get balanced. I really don't want this thread to turn into the mess that was our last prestige thread, Lets try to be adults, stay topic, and focus on the real issues.

Sanctify: Increases the base hp of your target by 25%, each time your target takes damage it looses a trigger (5%)

Issues: Testing this out last night it seems that this ability is triggering down ticks for every mutliple swing, and damage proc, leaving it useless in a raid situation if maintained on a Main Tank.

Solution: Increase the amount of triggers.

Purification: A effect that reflects magical damage, can reflect up to 15%

Issues: Eh, a reflect...k? guess i'll have slighty more dps..

Holy Army: Everytime Sancitify looses a trigger your grp gains up to 10% incriments that increases attributes, Wis/int/agi/str.

Issues: I guess this is suppose to be our solution for lack of grp utility...

Solution: If this is supposed to be our only form of grp utility, i think it should have an additional effect, a small damage proc, or maybe a small increase in crit bonus.

*Divine Protection: When i read that this was a damage reduction i was so exited, it finally felt like the dev team really understood what the class was about. and than i tested it.

If you cast Sanctify while the  target is under 50% hp or the target goes under 50% while Sanctify is maintained you have a % chance to proc a damage reduction.

Testing this was pretty difficult. why? Because the duration of the damage reduction is 1 second. 1 second.

Issues: Our offensive counterparts are getting a stoneskin, and we are getting a blink of the eye damage reduction.

Solution: In it's current form it is utterly useless, more so when you look at what our counterparts are getting in it's place. The best solution would be to increase the duration. signifcantly.

Holy guide: Cuts the recast of Divine Guidance by 15 seconds.

Issue: Our counterparts are getting a 25% increase in the amount of damage FD does. This feels very blah in comparsion.

Divinity's Aid: After our single target reactive naturally expires (after each trigger is used) It will proc a 30% healing recieved temp on you target.

Issues: It's the best healer ability that we are getting, and it's in the dps line.

Solution: Please swap Divinity's Aid, and Sanctify. This will give templars a clear path between dps, and healing.

Divinity's Punishment: Each time the target of Divinity's Aid attacks your granted a small damage proc.

Issues: eh, a personal damage proc?

Solution: It would be really nice if this effect was made grp wide.

Divine Mana: Divinity's Aid will have an additional effect that increase power to the grp. You have to be attacking for it to work, it does proc on spell auto

Barrier of Divinity: Grants a small ward when divinity's aid expires.

Wrath of Divinity: Gift/mark/healing fate will do some damage when cast.

Divine Reformation: A long range, insta cast, low reuse ability, that heals 2 grp memebers of the lowest heath. The amount it heals for changes based on the % hp they have.

With everything that complete ignores wards, ignores reactives...I have been waiting for something like this...So thank you

Restoring Devotion: Reduces the base recast of our grp cure to 5 seconds.

Issue: I already addressed them in this thread.

[Daalilama]

Dahmer wrote:

To start, One of the more noticable diffrences between the templar prestiges and other healers is that there really is no direct "healing" or "Dps" line. I'll touch base on this more later.

I also make some comparisons to other classes. Don't get upset. It's not a plea for any nerfs, only a suggestion for templar abilitys to get balanced. I really don't want this thread to turn into the mess that was our last prestige thread, Lets try to be adults, stay topic, and focus on the real issues.

Sanctify: Increases the base hp of your target by 25%, each time your target takes damage it looses a trigger (5%)

Issues: Testing this out last night it seems that this ability is triggering down ticks for every mutliple swing, and damage proc, leaving it useless in a raid situation if maintained on a Main Tank.

Solution: Increase the amount of triggers.

Hmm...interesting problem for a decent ability...another way for a solution might be to take a page out of the guardians tower of stone ability in that its 4 triggers dont trigger unless the damage is greater than 10% of max health and maybe add few more tiggers.

Purification: A effect that reflects magical damage, can reflect up to 15%

Issues: Eh, a reflect...k? guess i'll have slighty more dps..

Sounds like their giving us an enhanced myth clicky as an addon proc to a prestige ability.

Holy Army: Everytime Sancitify looses a trigger your grp gains up to 10% incriments that increases attributes, Wis/int/agi/str.

Issues: I guess this is suppose to be our solution for lack of grp utility...

Solution: If this is supposed to be our only form of grp utility, i think it should have an additional effect, a small damage proc, or maybe a small increase in crit bonus.

Prime stat bump as a addon proc...raw prime stats up to 50% when all triggers are used if I'm correct may sound nice but arent most of us already near the soft cap if not over...I think adding crit bonus and a damage proc would be perfect for our group utility.  P.S. what is the duration of the trigger on this...if duration is to short then it be a waste tbh.

*Divine Protection: When i read that this was a damage reduction i was so exited, it finally felt like the dev team really understood what the class was about. and than i tested it.

If you cast Sanctify while the  target is under 50% hp or the target goes under 50% while Sanctify is maintained you have a % chance to proc a damage reduction.

Testing this was pretty difficult. why? Because the duration of the damage reduction is 1 second. 1 second.

Issues: Our offensive counterparts are getting a stoneskin, and we are getting a blink of the eye damage reduction.

Solution: In it's current form it is utterly useless, more so when you look at what our counterparts are getting in it's place. The best solution would be to increase the duration. signifcantly.

Someone seriously need to rethink this.  On paper this sounds great but the duration is a complete joke and I agree this duration needs a serious jump up.

Holy guide: Cuts the recast of Divine Guidance by 15 seconds.

Issue: Our counterparts are getting a 25% increase in the amount of damage FD does. This feels very blah in comparsion.

Agreed.  Its nice and all but tbh DG is on a relatively fast reuse  already so the 15 seconds off its recast is meh at best.  If it is the intention to keep Holy Guide as a prestige for DG then possibly adding either a boost to its healing capability say 20-30% and/or some other useful proc for the duration of the spell (damage reduction for the duration be nice but might be a problem with how much it heals)

Divinity's Aid: After our single target reactive naturally expires (after each trigger is used) It will proc a 30% healing recieved temp on you target.

Issues: It's the best healer ability that we are getting, and it's in the dps line.

Solution: Please swap Divinity's Aid, and Sanctify. This will give templars a clear path between dps, and healing.

Question, what is the duration of Divine Aid?  Agree lines are somewhat mixed up.

Divinity's Punishment: Each time the target of Divinity's Aid attacks your granted a small damage proc.

Issues: eh, a personal damage proc?

Solution: It would be really nice if this effect was made grp wide.

Question, what is the amount of the damage proc?  Does it crit?  Regardless of amount and/or if it crits I agree this needs to be applied to the group.

Divine Mana: Divinity's Aid will have an additional effect that increase power to the grp. You have to be attacking for it to work, it does proc on spell auto

Based upon what I read on beta, each rank into this gives .4% power to the group for a total of 1.2% total if 3 ranks taken.  Even if this is as I read, a static proc not a chance to proc, the amount imo even at rank 3 is nearly useless...suggestion increase the power proc to group per rank to 1% - 3% otherwise the power regen as is is completely useless.

Barrier of Divinity: Grants a small ward when divinity's aid expires.

How small is small?  I am hearing that our counterparts are getting a rather sizable group ward proc on their right line/group stoneskin on left.  Does it crit?  Need to see some rought numbers if possible before making a judgment call on this.

Wrath of Divinity: Gift/mark/healing fate will do some damage when cast.

Again same question basically...whats the range on the damage is it set or does it crit?

Divine Reformation: A long range, insta cast, low reuse ability, that heals 2 grp memebers of the lowest heath. The amount it heals for changes based on the % hp they have.

With everything that complete ignores wards, ignores reactives...I have been waiting for something like this...So thank you

This looks like a decent ability especially with script/mobs now avoiding wards/reactives, does the amount it heal relative to the % of hp crit higher than listed (most normally do but just wanted to check)

Restoring Devotion: Reduces the base recast of our grp cure to 5 seconds.

Issue: I already addressed them in this thread.

 I really like this ability though granted somewhat concerned on the occasional stacking dets which are rare but do happen. 

Thats all I got atm but its nearing 3am need sleep.

[Dahmer]

[email protected] wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

To start, One of the more noticable diffrences between the templar prestiges and other healers is that there really is no direct "healing" or "Dps" line. I'll touch base on this more later.

I also make some comparisons to other classes. Don't get upset. It's not a plea for any nerfs, only a suggestion for templar abilitys to get balanced. I really don't want this thread to turn into the mess that was our last prestige thread, Lets try to be adults, stay topic, and focus on the real issues.

Sanctify: Increases the base hp of your target by 25%, each time your target takes damage it looses a trigger (5%)

Issues: Testing this out last night it seems that this ability is triggering down ticks for every mutliple swing, and damage proc, leaving it useless in a raid situation if maintained on a Main Tank.

Solution: Increase the amount of triggers.

Hmm...interesting problem for a decent ability...another way for a solution might be to take a page out of the guardians tower of stone ability in that its 4 triggers dont trigger unless the damage is greater than 10% of max health and maybe add few more tiggers.

Purification: A effect that reflects magical damage, can reflect up to 15%

Issues: Eh, a reflect...k? guess i'll have slighty more dps..

Sounds like their giving us an enhanced myth clicky as an addon proc to a prestige ability.

Holy Army: Everytime Sancitify looses a trigger your grp gains up to 10% incriments that increases attributes, Wis/int/agi/str.

Issues: I guess this is suppose to be our solution for lack of grp utility...

Solution: If this is supposed to be our only form of grp utility, i think it should have an additional effect, a small damage proc, or maybe a small increase in crit bonus.

Prime stat bump as a addon proc...raw prime stats up to 50% when all triggers are used if I'm correct may sound nice but arent most of us already near the soft cap if not over...I think adding crit bonus and a damage proc would be perfect for our group utility.  P.S. what is the duration of the trigger on this...if duration is to short then it be a waste tbh.

*Divine Protection: When i read that this was a damage reduction i was so exited, it finally felt like the dev team really understood what the class was about. and than i tested it.

If you cast Sanctify while the  target is under 50% hp or the target goes under 50% while Sanctify is maintained you have a % chance to proc a damage reduction.

Testing this was pretty difficult. why? Because the duration of the damage reduction is 1 second. 1 second.

Issues: Our offensive counterparts are getting a stoneskin, and we are getting a blink of the eye damage reduction.

Solution: In it's current form it is utterly useless, more so when you look at what our counterparts are getting in it's place. The best solution would be to increase the duration. signifcantly.

Someone seriously need to rethink this.  On paper this sounds great but the duration is a complete joke and I agree this duration needs a serious jump up.

Holy guide: Cuts the recast of Divine Guidance by 15 seconds.

Issue: Our counterparts are getting a 25% increase in the amount of damage FD does. This feels very blah in comparsion.

Agreed.  Its nice and all but tbh DG is on a relatively fast reuse  already so the 15 seconds off its recast is meh at best.  If it is the intention to keep Holy Guide as a prestige for DG then possibly adding either a boost to its healing capability say 20-30% and/or some other useful proc for the duration of the spell (damage reduction for the duration be nice but might be a problem with how much it heals)

Divinity's Aid: After our single target reactive naturally expires (after each trigger is used) It will proc a 30% healing recieved temp on you target.

Issues: It's the best healer ability that we are getting, and it's in the dps line.

Solution: Please swap Divinity's Aid, and Sanctify. This will give templars a clear path between dps, and healing.

Question, what is the duration of Divine Aid?  Agree lines are somewhat mixed up.

Divinity's Punishment: Each time the target of Divinity's Aid attacks your granted a small damage proc.

Issues: eh, a personal damage proc?

Solution: It would be really nice if this effect was made grp wide.

Question, what is the amount of the damage proc?  Does it crit?  Regardless of amount and/or if it crits I agree this needs to be applied to the group.

Divine Mana: Divinity's Aid will have an additional effect that increase power to the grp. You have to be attacking for it to work, it does proc on spell auto

Based upon what I read on beta, each rank into this gives .4% power to the group for a total of 1.2% total if 3 ranks taken.  Even if this is as I read, a static proc not a chance to proc, the amount imo even at rank 3 is nearly useless...suggestion increase the power proc to group per rank to 1% - 3% otherwise the power regen as is is completely useless.

Barrier of Divinity: Grants a small ward when divinity's aid expires.

How small is small?  I am hearing that our counterparts are getting a rather sizable group ward proc on their right line/group stoneskin on left.  Does it crit?  Need to see some rought numbers if possible before making a judgment call on this.

Wrath of Divinity: Gift/mark/healing fate will do some damage when cast.

Again same question basically...whats the range on the damage is it set or does it crit?

Divine Reformation: A long range, insta cast, low reuse ability, that heals 2 grp memebers of the lowest heath. The amount it heals for changes based on the % hp they have.

With everything that complete ignores wards, ignores reactives...I have been waiting for something like this...So thank you

This looks like a decent ability especially with script/mobs now avoiding wards/reactives, does the amount it heal relative to the % of hp crit higher than listed (most normally do but just wanted to check)

Restoring Devotion: Reduces the base recast of our grp cure to 5 seconds.

Issue: I already addressed them in this thread.

 I really like this ability though granted somewhat concerned on the occasional stacking dets which are rare but do happen. 

Thats all I got atm but its nearing 3am need sleep.

I mistyped on a few things~ Our damage reduction from Divine Protection lasts 1.5 seconds, and the we loose 10 seconds of cast time off DG, not 15.

I hope i catch everything you asked for Daal

Holy Army lasts for for 15 seconds increases primary stats by 49.5

The duration of divinitys Aid is 6 seconds.

Divinitys Punishment~ I haven't fully tested this.

Barrier of Divinity. It's a single taget ward. I haven't tested it out to see if it crits. With both those two presges you have to allow every trigger in your single target reactive to trigger. I would also prefer someone to test those on..So eventually it will get done, maybe tonight.

Divine Reformation~ Yees it crits

Wrath of Divinity~ like 4700-5800 on tool tip, hitting for like 12k on beta...Very low for a prestige endline.

[Daalilama]

Dahmer wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

To start, One of the more noticable diffrences between the templar prestiges and other healers is that there really is no direct "healing" or "Dps" line. I'll touch base on this more later.

I also make some comparisons to other classes. Don't get upset. It's not a plea for any nerfs, only a suggestion for templar abilitys to get balanced. I really don't want this thread to turn into the mess that was our last prestige thread, Lets try to be adults, stay topic, and focus on the real issues.

Sanctify: Increases the base hp of your target by 25%, each time your target takes damage it looses a trigger (5%)

Issues: Testing this out last night it seems that this ability is triggering down ticks for every mutliple swing, and damage proc, leaving it useless in a raid situation if maintained on a Main Tank.

Solution: Increase the amount of triggers.

Hmm...interesting problem for a decent ability...another way for a solution might be to take a page out of the guardians tower of stone ability in that its 4 triggers dont trigger unless the damage is greater than 10% of max health and maybe add few more tiggers.

Purification: A effect that reflects magical damage, can reflect up to 15%

Issues: Eh, a reflect...k? guess i'll have slighty more dps..

Sounds like their giving us an enhanced myth clicky as an addon proc to a prestige ability.

Holy Army: Everytime Sancitify looses a trigger your grp gains up to 10% incriments that increases attributes, Wis/int/agi/str.

Issues: I guess this is suppose to be our solution for lack of grp utility...

Solution: If this is supposed to be our only form of grp utility, i think it should have an additional effect, a small damage proc, or maybe a small increase in crit bonus.

Prime stat bump as a addon proc...raw prime stats up to 50% when all triggers are used if I'm correct may sound nice but arent most of us already near the soft cap if not over...I think adding crit bonus and a damage proc would be perfect for our group utility.  P.S. what is the duration of the trigger on this...if duration is to short then it be a waste tbh.

*Divine Protection: When i read that this was a damage reduction i was so exited, it finally felt like the dev team really understood what the class was about. and than i tested it.

If you cast Sanctify while the  target is under 50% hp or the target goes under 50% while Sanctify is maintained you have a % chance to proc a damage reduction.

Testing this was pretty difficult. why? Because the duration of the damage reduction is 1 second. 1 second.

Issues: Our offensive counterparts are getting a stoneskin, and we are getting a blink of the eye damage reduction.

Solution: In it's current form it is utterly useless, more so when you look at what our counterparts are getting in it's place. The best solution would be to increase the duration. signifcantly.

Someone seriously need to rethink this.  On paper this sounds great but the duration is a complete joke and I agree this duration needs a serious jump up.

Holy guide: Cuts the recast of Divine Guidance by 15 seconds.

Issue: Our counterparts are getting a 25% increase in the amount of damage FD does. This feels very blah in comparsion.

Agreed.  Its nice and all but tbh DG is on a relatively fast reuse  already so the 15 seconds off its recast is meh at best.  If it is the intention to keep Holy Guide as a prestige for DG then possibly adding either a boost to its healing capability say 20-30% and/or some other useful proc for the duration of the spell (damage reduction for the duration be nice but might be a problem with how much it heals)

Divinity's Aid: After our single target reactive naturally expires (after each trigger is used) It will proc a 30% healing recieved temp on you target.

Issues: It's the best healer ability that we are getting, and it's in the dps line.

Solution: Please swap Divinity's Aid, and Sanctify. This will give templars a clear path between dps, and healing.

Question, what is the duration of Divine Aid?  Agree lines are somewhat mixed up.

Divinity's Punishment: Each time the target of Divinity's Aid attacks your granted a small damage proc.

Issues: eh, a personal damage proc?

Solution: It would be really nice if this effect was made grp wide.

Question, what is the amount of the damage proc?  Does it crit?  Regardless of amount and/or if it crits I agree this needs to be applied to the group.

Divine Mana: Divinity's Aid will have an additional effect that increase power to the grp. You have to be attacking for it to work, it does proc on spell auto

Based upon what I read on beta, each rank into this gives .4% power to the group for a total of 1.2% total if 3 ranks taken.  Even if this is as I read, a static proc not a chance to proc, the amount imo even at rank 3 is nearly useless...suggestion increase the power proc to group per rank to 1% - 3% otherwise the power regen as is is completely useless.

Barrier of Divinity: Grants a small ward when divinity's aid expires.

How small is small?  I am hearing that our counterparts are getting a rather sizable group ward proc on their right line/group stoneskin on left.  Does it crit?  Need to see some rought numbers if possible before making a judgment call on this.

Wrath of Divinity: Gift/mark/healing fate will do some damage when cast.

Again same question basically...whats the range on the damage is it set or does it crit?

Divine Reformation: A long range, insta cast, low reuse ability, that heals 2 grp memebers of the lowest heath. The amount it heals for changes based on the % hp they have.

With everything that complete ignores wards, ignores reactives...I have been waiting for something like this...So thank you

This looks like a decent ability especially with script/mobs now avoiding wards/reactives, does the amount it heal relative to the % of hp crit higher than listed (most normally do but just wanted to check)

Restoring Devotion: Reduces the base recast of our grp cure to 5 seconds.

Issue: I already addressed them in this thread.

 I really like this ability though granted somewhat concerned on the occasional stacking dets which are rare but do happen. 

Thats all I got atm but its nearing 3am need sleep.

I mistyped on a few things~ Our damage reduction from Divine Protection lasts 1.5 seconds, and the we loose 10 seconds of cast time off DG, not 15.

 10 seconds or 15 off of DG reuse is not make or break...its nice but no wow factor or serious healing.  My previous assessment  of boosting its healing power by 20-30% as well be best road on this.  As for Divine Protection duration is exceedingly to short to be of any real use...suggest it be changed to 5-10 seconds.  BTW whats the % of DR on the proc?  If its too small to matter be meh again.

I hope i catch everything you asked for Daal

Holy Army lasts for for 15 seconds increases primary stats by 49.5

 Duration is surprisingly spot on for a secondary effect proc.  Stat bump is still meh especially for those of us near or over soft cap.  Addition of CB would seriously make this useful.

The duration of divinitys Aid is 6 seconds.

 Hmm, 6 seconds seems bit low especially in raid and harder group zones how things can chance on the fly.  I would suggest maybe this duration be enhanced to 10 seconds minimum.  Current procs on the skyshrine raid crafted items last longer than this with same sort of enhanced healing recieved.  10 seconds instead of 6 seconds is both not seriously op and very useful in conjunction with this ability even at 30%.

Divinitys Punishment~ I haven't fully tested this.

Barrier of Divinity. It's a single taget ward. I haven't tested it out to see if it crits. With both those two presges you have to allow every trigger in your single target reactive to trigger. I would also prefer someone to test those on..So eventually it will get done, maybe tonight.

 Yeah bit concerned by the need to let all my reative triggers to be used.  Means I'd have to slower my refresh on them especially for proc heals/ward gear in make or break fights.  If the ward was sizable enough to warrant slowing up refreshing could be very useful...but alot depends on its size.  Wouldnt mind seeing the ward if decent become group wide (we are more a pure healer now then the other healer classes).  A second conern I have regardless if this becomes a decent group ward or stays single target is the increasing of certain raid mobs bypassing both wards/reactives...if SOE is going to continue using the gimick of negating 2/3's of the heal types available perhaps this may need to be changed to a stoneskin proc (which triggers when the damage is greater than 10% of targets total hp...still like to see it become group wide).

 Divine Reformation~ Yees it crits

 Giggidy...all I'm going to say.

Wrath of Divinity~ like 4700-5800 on tool tip, hitting for like 12k on beta...Very low for a prestige endline.

 Hmm, forgot to ask whats it proc rate or is it static aka hits 100% of time or is a chance to proc, if static then its ok in that part of it if its a chance to proc needs to be static and proc 100%.  Agreed on low proc amount of damage for prestige endline...would suggest continue to allow it to crit and boost the damage output by 25-30% at very least.

 By and large best assessment atm I can come up with...props to you Dahm for taking the time on this but until I can get to 95 on beta I cant get a good feel for them and give some decent feedback from what I am seeing as I dont have time to grind to 95...last I checked there still wasnt a beta buffer for 95.  Lets cross our fingers again guys as I see some of the same who worked on getting our skyshrine prestige worked out better than it was but not near where is should have been before live...maybe we can get some dev love again.

[Avirodar]

Dahmer wrote:

I mistyped on a few things~ Our damage reduction from Divine Protection lasts 1.5 seconds, and the we loose 10 seconds of cast time off DG, not 15.

The base reuse speed for DG is 180s (3:00). It caps out by default at 90s (1:30).So...You are informing us, that when SOE makes the base reuse of DG via AA to be 150s (2:30), that the 50% max reuse rule does not apply, and that it does not become a maxed reuse of 75s (1:15)?If you are certain that you are presenting credible information, and that the capped reuse on AA-enhanced DG is 80s (1:20), it looks like the traditional reuse rules are out the window.

[Dahmer]

[email protected] wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

To start, One of the more noticable diffrences between the templar prestiges and other healers is that there really is no direct "healing" or "Dps" line. I'll touch base on this more later.

I also make some comparisons to other classes. Don't get upset. It's not a plea for any nerfs, only a suggestion for templar abilitys to get balanced. I really don't want this thread to turn into the mess that was our last prestige thread, Lets try to be adults, stay topic, and focus on the real issues.

Sanctify: Increases the base hp of your target by 25%, each time your target takes damage it looses a trigger (5%)

Issues: Testing this out last night it seems that this ability is triggering down ticks for every mutliple swing, and damage proc, leaving it useless in a raid situation if maintained on a Main Tank.

Solution: Increase the amount of triggers.

Hmm...interesting problem for a decent ability...another way for a solution might be to take a page out of the guardians tower of stone ability in that its 4 triggers dont trigger unless the damage is greater than 10% of max health and maybe add few more tiggers.

Purification: A effect that reflects magical damage, can reflect up to 15%

Issues: Eh, a reflect...k? guess i'll have slighty more dps..

Sounds like their giving us an enhanced myth clicky as an addon proc to a prestige ability.

Holy Army: Everytime Sancitify looses a trigger your grp gains up to 10% incriments that increases attributes, Wis/int/agi/str.

Issues: I guess this is suppose to be our solution for lack of grp utility...

Solution: If this is supposed to be our only form of grp utility, i think it should have an additional effect, a small damage proc, or maybe a small increase in crit bonus.

Prime stat bump as a addon proc...raw prime stats up to 50% when all triggers are used if I'm correct may sound nice but arent most of us already near the soft cap if not over...I think adding crit bonus and a damage proc would be perfect for our group utility.  P.S. what is the duration of the trigger on this...if duration is to short then it be a waste tbh.

*Divine Protection: When i read that this was a damage reduction i was so exited, it finally felt like the dev team really understood what the class was about. and than i tested it.

If you cast Sanctify while the  target is under 50% hp or the target goes under 50% while Sanctify is maintained you have a % chance to proc a damage reduction.

Testing this was pretty difficult. why? Because the duration of the damage reduction is 1 second. 1 second.

Issues: Our offensive counterparts are getting a stoneskin, and we are getting a blink of the eye damage reduction.

Solution: In it's current form it is utterly useless, more so when you look at what our counterparts are getting in it's place. The best solution would be to increase the duration. signifcantly.

Someone seriously need to rethink this.  On paper this sounds great but the duration is a complete joke and I agree this duration needs a serious jump up.

Holy guide: Cuts the recast of Divine Guidance by 15 seconds.

Issue: Our counterparts are getting a 25% increase in the amount of damage FD does. This feels very blah in comparsion.

Agreed.  Its nice and all but tbh DG is on a relatively fast reuse  already so the 15 seconds off its recast is meh at best.  If it is the intention to keep Holy Guide as a prestige for DG then possibly adding either a boost to its healing capability say 20-30% and/or some other useful proc for the duration of the spell (damage reduction for the duration be nice but might be a problem with how much it heals)

Divinity's Aid: After our single target reactive naturally expires (after each trigger is used) It will proc a 30% healing recieved temp on you target.

Issues: It's the best healer ability that we are getting, and it's in the dps line.

Solution: Please swap Divinity's Aid, and Sanctify. This will give templars a clear path between dps, and healing.

Question, what is the duration of Divine Aid?  Agree lines are somewhat mixed up.

Divinity's Punishment: Each time the target of Divinity's Aid attacks your granted a small damage proc.

Issues: eh, a personal damage proc?

Solution: It would be really nice if this effect was made grp wide.

Question, what is the amount of the damage proc?  Does it crit?  Regardless of amount and/or if it crits I agree this needs to be applied to the group.

Divine Mana: Divinity's Aid will have an additional effect that increase power to the grp. You have to be attacking for it to work, it does proc on spell auto

Based upon what I read on beta, each rank into this gives .4% power to the group for a total of 1.2% total if 3 ranks taken.  Even if this is as I read, a static proc not a chance to proc, the amount imo even at rank 3 is nearly useless...suggestion increase the power proc to group per rank to 1% - 3% otherwise the power regen as is is completely useless.

Barrier of Divinity: Grants a small ward when divinity's aid expires.

How small is small?  I am hearing that our counterparts are getting a rather sizable group ward proc on their right line/group stoneskin on left.  Does it crit?  Need to see some rought numbers if possible before making a judgment call on this.

Wrath of Divinity: Gift/mark/healing fate will do some damage when cast.

Again same question basically...whats the range on the damage is it set or does it crit?

Divine Reformation: A long range, insta cast, low reuse ability, that heals 2 grp memebers of the lowest heath. The amount it heals for changes based on the % hp they have.

With everything that complete ignores wards, ignores reactives...I have been waiting for something like this...So thank you

This looks like a decent ability especially with script/mobs now avoiding wards/reactives, does the amount it heal relative to the % of hp crit higher than listed (most normally do but just wanted to check)

Restoring Devotion: Reduces the base recast of our grp cure to 5 seconds.

Issue: I already addressed them in this thread.

 I really like this ability though granted somewhat concerned on the occasional stacking dets which are rare but do happen. 

Thats all I got atm but its nearing 3am need sleep.

I mistyped on a few things~ Our damage reduction from Divine Protection lasts 1.5 seconds, and the we loose 10 seconds of cast time off DG, not 15.

 10 seconds or 15 off of DG reuse is not make or break...its nice but no wow factor or serious healing.  My previous assessment  of boosting its healing power by 20-30% as well be best road on this.  As for Divine Protection duration is exceedingly to short to be of any real use...suggest it be changed to 5-10 seconds.  BTW whats the % of DR on the proc?  If its too small to matter be meh again.

I hope i catch everything you asked for Daal

Holy Army lasts for for 15 seconds increases primary stats by 49.5

 Duration is surprisingly spot on for a secondary effect proc.  Stat bump is still meh especially for those of us near or over soft cap.  Addition of CB would seriously make this useful.

The duration of divinitys Aid is 6 seconds.

 Hmm, 6 seconds seems bit low especially in raid and harder group zones how things can chance on the fly.  I would suggest maybe this duration be enhanced to 10 seconds minimum.  Current procs on the skyshrine raid crafted items last longer than this with same sort of enhanced healing recieved.  10 seconds instead of 6 seconds is both not seriously op and very useful in conjunction with this ability even at 30%.

Divinitys Punishment~ I haven't fully tested this.

Barrier of Divinity. It's a single taget ward. I haven't tested it out to see if it crits. With both those two presges you have to allow every trigger in your single target reactive to trigger. I would also prefer someone to test those on..So eventually it will get done, maybe tonight.

 Yeah bit concerned by the need to let all my reative triggers to be used.  Means I'd have to slower my refresh on them especially for proc heals/ward gear in make or break fights.  If the ward was sizable enough to warrant slowing up refreshing could be very useful...but alot depends on its size.  Wouldnt mind seeing the ward if decent become group wide (we are more a pure healer now then the other healer classes).  A second conern I have regardless if this becomes a decent group ward or stays single target is the increasing of certain raid mobs bypassing both wards/reactives...if SOE is going to continue using the gimick of negating 2/3's of the heal types available perhaps this may need to be changed to a stoneskin proc (which triggers when the damage is greater than 10% of targets total hp...still like to see it become group wide).

 Divine Reformation~ Yees it crits

 Giggidy...all I'm going to say.

Wrath of Divinity~ like 4700-5800 on tool tip, hitting for like 12k on beta...Very low for a prestige endline.

 Hmm, forgot to ask whats it proc rate or is it static aka hits 100% of time or is a chance to proc, if static then its ok in that part of it if its a chance to proc needs to be static and proc 100%.  Agreed on low proc amount of damage for prestige endline...would suggest continue to allow it to crit and boost the damage output by 25-30% at very least.

 By and large best assessment atm I can come up with...props to you Dahm for taking the time on this but until I can get to 95 on beta I cant get a good feel for them and give some decent feedback from what I am seeing as I dont have time to grind to 95...last I checked there still wasnt a beta buffer for 95.  Lets cross our fingers again guys as I see some of the same who worked on getting our skyshrine prestige worked out better than it was but not near where is should have been before live...maybe we can get some dev love again.

Barrier Of Divinty~ Well, with melee procs your reactives are getting eaten up 2 at a time, between that and aoe's i don't see how using this in a hardcore raid setting would be to much of an issue, but i see your concern. We are so used to spamming everything for procs, it will be something we will have to keep a watchful eye on. What's nice about it also, when you recast vital, you don't loose the buff.

Wrath of Divinity isn't a proc, all that endline does is just add a low damage component to the abilitys.

Also i mispoke about DG~ We will be loosing 15 seconds. Obviously i try to be as crediable as possiable when posting this stuff, hence why i gave no real feedback on the abilitys i haven't fully tested.

I had stacking issues between procs on beta that i didn't have on live and forgot that i wasn't wearing a few pieces, Eh it happens. Thank you for pointing it out.

[DeathMagus]

Vurluk wrote:

The group cure prestige does reduce the resuse speed by 10s, which is nice. However the Inq's still have thier myth group cure which leaves templars at a disadvantage in raids.

I do not understand this logic...  Templars are the ONLY healer class with a curse cure reuse of 45s if I'm not mistaken...  They are the only non-shaman with a significant single target ward (about 80-90k from repent)...  They are the only healer class that can save a tank from a DT every 45s.  An inquis may have their mythical.. but they do not offer the same quantity and quality of tank survivability.  Not by a long shot.  

[Dahmer]

DeathMagus wrote:

Vurluk wrote:

The group cure prestige does reduce the resuse speed by 10s, which is nice. However the Inq's still have thier myth group cure which leaves templars at a disadvantage in raids.

I do not understand this logic...  Templars are the ONLY healer class with a curse cure reuse of 45s if I'm not mistaken...  They are the only non-shaman with a significant single target ward (about 80-90k from repent)...  They are the only healer class that can save a tank from a DT every 45s.  An inquis may have their mythical.. but they do not offer the same quantity and quality of tank survivability.  Not by a long shot.  

IF the death touch is % based, and IF they have a Defiler.

I'm not exactly sure what the poster meant by "disadvantage in raids" Maybe they were refering to our usefullness outside of an mt grp?

Tbh though i don't think anyone took that post seriously.

[DeathMagus]

Dahmer wrote:

DeathMagus wrote:

Vurluk wrote:

The group cure prestige does reduce the resuse speed by 10s, which is nice. However the Inq's still have thier myth group cure which leaves templars at a disadvantage in raids.

I do not understand this logic...  Templars are the ONLY healer class with a curse cure reuse of 45s if I'm not mistaken...  They are the only non-shaman with a significant single target ward (about 80-90k from repent)...  They are the only healer class that can save a tank from a DT every 45s.  An inquis may have their mythical.. but they do not offer the same quantity and quality of tank survivability.  Not by a long shot.  

IF the death touch is % based, and IF they have a Defiler.

I'm not exactly sure what the poster meant by "disadvantage in raids" Maybe they were refering to our usefullness outside of an mt grp?

Tbh though i don't think anyone took that post seriously.

IF the death touch is % based, and IF they have a Defiler.

My point stands since templars tend to be MT healers and paired with Defilers.  Not to mention that most DTs endgame are % based these days.  

Tbh though i don't think anyone took that post seriously.

I would hope no one took that individual seriously... Also, I was just making sure to get a post in here so that I'd come back later and check up on you and Avi.  

[Avirodar]

DeathMagus wrote:

Dahmer wrote:

DeathMagus wrote:

Vurluk wrote:

The group cure prestige does reduce the resuse speed by 10s, which is nice. However the Inq's still have thier myth group cure which leaves templars at a disadvantage in raids.

I do not understand this logic...  Templars are the ONLY healer class with a curse cure reuse of 45s if I'm not mistaken...  They are the only non-shaman with a significant single target ward (about 80-90k from repent)...  They are the only healer class that can save a tank from a DT every 45s.  An inquis may have their mythical.. but they do not offer the same quantity and quality of tank survivability.  Not by a long shot.  

IF the death touch is % based, and IF they have a Defiler.

I'm not exactly sure what the poster meant by "disadvantage in raids" Maybe they were refering to our usefullness outside of an mt grp?

Tbh though i don't think anyone took that post seriously.

IF the death touch is % based, and IF they have a Defiler.

My point stands since templars tend to be MT healers and paired with Defilers.  Not to mention that most DTs endgame are % based these days.  

Tbh though i don't think anyone took that post seriously.

I would hope no one took that individual seriously... Also, I was just making sure to get a post in here so that I'd come back later and check up on you and Avi.  

Exactly. Templars are already the ideal cleric for the MTG role. This is because Templar class have the tools to keep tanks alive through events that an Inquisitor can not. When combining this with some of the comparatively nice prestige abilities in the coming expansion, there is no longer any merit to claims that Templars are the red headed step child. If the trend of unwardable % based "deathtouches" continues, Templars have a significant advantage over Inquisitors for Tank Groups.Now that Templars, a class not designed to be a group solo healer, complained until SOE gave them a fast reuse group cure, I am waiting for shamans to do the same. After all, why should Shamans be the worst healer for curing purposes in heroic/easymode content? It is unfair. Lotto cures don't count, just ask any Templar who posts about manacure.

[Daalilama]

Avi in another thread in the templar class forums you basicaly said you were seeing some extremely high procs on arcane with manacure.  While I would prefer not to derail this prestige feedback thread by discussing a side issue but any templar who has played the class for any length of time knows full well that the proc rate on that ability is garbage first off, second the only possible way (hard to believe due to its haphazard ability to proc) to get "good returns" would be if you and your tandem (defiler) didnt bother to cure at all or were slow at it.  So when the rest of the temp community complains that the ability is obsolete and needs a look at after the years of its use not amounting to much return for the investment this is a fact.  Sidenote: you consistently over the last year when you were playing ur inquis basically stated no need for temp in MT grp as an inquis can do it better...just saying.

As for the current discussion on CoE prestige abilities there is a lot of promise in them on paper but there is also a serious need to tweak them to be more useful in practice, hense the feedback. 

As I said I'd rather not get into a shouting match derailing this thread like what happened on the skyshrine prestige feedback and would suggest starting a new thread in the CoE general feedback on the class if we want to get down and dirty on the pros and cons of the class abilities as they currently are.

[Avirodar]

[email protected] wrote:

Sidenote: you consistently over the last year when you were playing ur inquis basically stated no need for temp in MT grp as an inquis can do it better...just saying.

I have frequently said that Inqs are better, if you're in a guild that prioritizes farming trivial trash for the 100th time, more than progression. I have frequently said that Templars are the better MT healer for progression.I have consistently sought to have a Templar in guild, and use of Templars where player skill (not a brain dead face-roller) justifies it. This was the case in DoVpt1, the Drunder era, and even now we run a Templar as MT healer (this was before beta was announced, and before anyone got a glance at prestige points). I mean hey, even I levelled up a Templar. That in itself should speak volumes.

[Dahmer]

Going back to the prestiges.

I was able to test out both Barrier of Divinity and Divinity's punishment.

Barrier Of Divinity does not crit, which was something i think we all we expecting. I was seeing max hits around 6k of warding.

Divinity's Punishment which is a damage proc everytime your target of Divinity's Aids attacks also is not criting and is hitting around 4k on beta

[renewedbullet]

deific reformation doesnt work at all lol

[Daalilama]

Dahmer wrote:

Going back to the prestiges.

I was able to test out both Barrier of Divinity and Divinity's punishment.

Barrier Of Divinity does not crit, which was something i think we all we expecting. I was seeing max hits around 6k of warding.

Divinity's Punishment which is a damage proc everytime your target of Divinity's Aids attacks also is not criting and is hitting around 4k on beta

Hmm 6k ward on barrier of divinity....not garbage but then again not major....would prefer it to be group wide (giving all members their own personal ward for bout 6k or bump it up to 10 - 12k and make it shareable) still giving some versitility on group survivability.

As for Divinity's punishment...still think this needs to go group wide, templars are more about the groups survivability and retaining this as a single target proc limits group utility...proc damage could use a slight boost say about 50% if this indeed remains single target but if it goes group wide maybe only a 25% boost.

Thanks again Dahmer.

[Dahmer]

renewedbullet wrote:

deific reformation doesnt work at all lol

Yeah, it's not working as intended.

it needs to be fixed so that its only group wide, and hitting two targets.

[Ulrichvon]

Davito wrote:

Vurluk wrote:

The group cure prestige does reduce the resuse speed by 10s, which is nice. However the Inq's still have thier myth group cure which leaves templars at a disadvantage in raids.

2 group cures for the healers that solo heal groups.  Would be dumb to give templars 2 group cures of equal value to that of an inquis.  Especially when your healing ability and other abilities far surpas that of a templar.  So just stop.

People put wardens in solo heal dps groups?

[Daalilama]

Todays offical updates on the templar prestige:

Templar

Deific Restoration should properly apply when the targets are 26% or higher.

Barrier of Divinity can crit now.

Thats 2 fixes be nice if Xelgad did them all.

[PeterJohn]

As I was in raid yesterday, solo healing on my inquisitor, I started realizing just how often double aoe actually do hit, meaning 2 of the same det type landing at the same time. All of the current solo curing classes have the ability to cure 2 dets of the same type from their group with the one group cure.

I would consider making the endline ability not only halve the group cure recast time for templars, but also have it cure double the effects, similar to those other group cures. Otherwise, the whole point of getting a faster group cure recast time is going to be missed.

[Avirodar]

PeterJohn wrote:

As I was in raid yesterday, solo healing on my inquisitor, I started realizing just how often double aoe actually do hit, meaning 2 of the same det type landing at the same time. All of the current solo curing classes have the ability to cure 2 dets of the same type from their group with the one group cure.

I would consider making the endline ability not only halve the group cure recast time for templars, but also have it cure double the effects, similar to those other group cures. Otherwise, the whole point of getting a faster group cure recast time is going to be missed.

Care to provide some examples? What encounters/mobs?Our MT Defiler + Templar seem to have no difficulty handling the cures, so providing some actual examples would be useful. If what you speak of was actually a problem, it would be a problem for our MTG. But it has given my guild no problems thus far.So, you made the insinuation that double AEs (of the same effect type) are a frequent occurance. It should be really easy to provide a lot of examples if it happens so often?