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Old 09-07-2011, 11:21 PM   #1
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Riposte Damage does little to no damage and it does not proc very often and needs fixed.

- It needs to be effected by Strength.

- It needs to be effected by Autoattack Modifier/DPS Mod.

- It needs to Multi-Attack.

- It needs to Flurry.

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Old 09-08-2011, 01:46 AM   #2
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Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

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Old 09-08-2011, 09:35 AM   #3
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Whilst he may not have expressed it correctly... or even used the right wording I agree with him in principle.

He is talking about riposite damage, currently *not* effected by strength; a hangup from I think pre DoF. so the damage it does it very VERY minimal.

For example a normal autoattack can do on average 24k.. a riposte does about 2.4k if you're lucky.

This makes aquiring gear to enhance it or gear with riposte very very low on people's priority list as aside from the token damage it does the difference between a "parry" and a "riposte" is virtually none; and he is wishing... well we all are to some extent that the damage you deal from riposting ... or bashing one should be increased to the level of a standard autoattack and be effected in the same way.

... although having a riposite multi atatck or potecny is stupid.

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Old 09-08-2011, 09:59 AM   #4
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Riposte should do the same amount of damage as a standard auto attack.  In fact they should code it so that a riposte just is an auto attack back.

Tanks take a dive in DPS while tanking due to hit rates from the front of the mob, this would actually make sense in recovering some of that loss and would actually toss a bone to Fighters.

Mechanically Riposte is supposed to be a melee from your weapon back onto the mob.  It doesn't make sense that the damage is so tiny and doesn't scale at all.  It would be nice if the mechanic was calculated off of your weapons damage and increased the same way as a wep auto attack (str, DPS mod, CB).

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Old 09-08-2011, 10:10 AM   #5
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+1

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Old 09-08-2011, 10:37 AM   #6
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I never did understand why they changed Riposte’s to do so little damage. If it were just off of the damage of the weapon, with everything adding in, then it would also give some small bonuses to using a 2h weapon. With that said, I think if DPS mob is applied then Haste should also affect the chance to have a Parry changed into a Riposte. Also should this be counted as a weapon attack and have a chance to proc every thing that an auto attach can?
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:04 PM   #7
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SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Done.

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Old 09-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #8
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SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Honestly, anyone playing or developing for the game would understand the issues with riposte damage, it does not need a disertation about it.

It is clear from a mechanics and design standpoint that riposte damage was not intended to be particularly useful or effective.  The poster would like it to be counted as a true extra melee swing rather than what is effectively a chance to proc.

I personally think that represents some real scaling issues.  While I'd like riposte to be more meaningful, doing so would require nerfing other abilities to bring them in line.  For example anything that offers x% riposte chance for y durration would likely have to be nerfed if riposte was turned into a true melee swing.

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:16 PM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Honestly, anyone playing or developing for the game would understand the issues with riposte damage, it does not need a disertation about it.

It is clear from a mechanics and design standpoint that riposte damage was not intended to be particularly useful or effective.  The poster would like it to be counted as a true extra melee swing rather than what is effectively a chance to proc.

I personally think that represents some real scaling issues.  While I'd like riposte to be more meaningful, doing so would require nerfing other abilities to bring them in line.  For example anything that offers x% riposte chance for y durration would likely have to be nerfed if riposte was turned into a true melee swing.

Which is why it should not be changed into a "true" melee swing that can MA and Flurry.  It should be equivalent to a single swing of the primary melee wep and treated as a proc in such a way.  In other words based on DPS mod, wep damage, and CB a roughly 15-25k melee hit in todays game.

Than it would scale up as gear and stats increase.

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:30 PM   #10
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Bruener wrote:

Which is why it should not be changed into a "true" melee swing that can MA and Flurry.  It should be equivalent to a single swing of the primary melee wep and treated as a proc in such a way.  In other words based on DPS mod, wep damage, and CB a roughly 15-25k melee hit in todays game.

Than it would scale up as gear and stats increase.

I'm fine with this as long as it is a single swing with no chance to MA / Flurry or Proc.

Remember, any change here will also affect NPC's and their riposte damage.   Be careful what we wish for, we might actually make the guard myth desireable =P.

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:30 PM   #11
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Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Honestly, anyone playing or developing for the game would understand the issues with riposte damage, it does not need a disertation about it.

It is clear from a mechanics and design standpoint that riposte damage was not intended to be particularly useful or effective.  The poster would like it to be counted as a true extra melee swing rather than what is effectively a chance to proc.

I personally think that represents some real scaling issues.  While I'd like riposte to be more meaningful, doing so would require nerfing other abilities to bring them in line.  For example anything that offers x% riposte chance for y durration would likely have to be nerfed if riposte was turned into a true melee swing.

Which is why it should not be changed into a "true" melee swing that can MA and Flurry.  It should be equivalent to a single swing of the primary melee wep and treated as a proc in such a way.  In other words based on DPS mod, wep damage, and CB a roughly 15-25k melee hit in todays game.

Than it would scale up as gear and stats increase.

Exactly, it would also fix several abilitys that add riposte chance.

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Old 09-08-2011, 05:20 PM   #12
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Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Honestly, anyone playing or developing for the game would understand the issues with riposte damage, it does not need a disertation about it.

It is clear from a mechanics and design standpoint that riposte damage was not intended to be particularly useful or effective.  The poster would like it to be counted as a true extra melee swing rather than what is effectively a chance to proc.

I personally think that represents some real scaling issues.  While I'd like riposte to be more meaningful, doing so would require nerfing other abilities to bring them in line.  For example anything that offers x% riposte chance for y durration would likely have to be nerfed if riposte was turned into a true melee swing.

Which is why it should not be changed into a "true" melee swing that can MA and Flurry.  It should be equivalent to a single swing of the primary melee wep and treated as a proc in such a way.  In other words based on DPS mod, wep damage, and CB a roughly 15-25k melee hit in todays game.

Than it would scale up as gear and stats increase.

Both of these +1

A single attack that did not proc gear, MA or flurry but was modifiable by DPS, Crit and Crit Bonus would make a lot more sence.

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Old 09-08-2011, 05:31 PM   #13
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If it doesn't MA or Flurry then it should be effected by Potency.

Or Simply make it MA/Flurry, it IS A Melee Attack.

MA's Description: Your Melee Attack will Attack Multiple times when you strike your enemy.

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Old 09-08-2011, 05:33 PM   #14
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

If it doesn't MA or Flurry then it should be effected by Potency.

Or Simply make it MA/Flurry, it IS A Melee Attack.

MA's Description: Your Melee Attack will Attack Multiple times when you attack your enemy.

what you are asking is just too powerful... imagine furor 100% chance to ripisote every ripiste on you you'll be doign AoE auto, multiple attacks fluirries an you'll simply waste everyone aroudn you.

A Single standard AA best

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Old 09-08-2011, 05:34 PM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

If it doesn't MA or Flurry then it should be effected by Potency.

Or Simply make it MA/Flurry, it IS A Melee Attack.

MA's Description: Your Melee Attack will Attack Multiple times when you attack your enemy.

what you are asking is just too powerful... imagine furor 100% chance to ripisote every ripiste on you you'll be doign AoE auto, multiple attacks fluirries an you'll simply waste everyone aroudn you.

A Single standard AA best

Watch your enemys buffs, don't attack them when Furor's Up.

SKs are AOE tanks as well as Berserkers, thats what "Should happen".

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Old 09-08-2011, 05:45 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

If it doesn't MA or Flurry then it should be effected by Potency.

Or Simply make it MA/Flurry, it IS A Melee Attack.

MA's Description: Your Melee Attack will Attack Multiple times when you attack your enemy.

what you are asking is just too powerful... imagine furor 100% chance to ripisote every ripiste on you you'll be doign AoE auto, multiple attacks fluirries an you'll simply waste everyone aroudn you.

A Single standard AA best

Its just the norm for the OP to ask for ridiculously overpowered changes.  He likes to paint with such wide strokes I wouldn't be surprised if he was related to Aeralik SMILEY

Riposte could use some enhancements mechanicly, but the day we allow a riposte to ma/flurry MT's and their healers will scream.

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Old 09-08-2011, 05:54 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

If it doesn't MA or Flurry then it should be effected by Potency.

Or Simply make it MA/Flurry, it IS A Melee Attack.

MA's Description: Your Melee Attack will Attack Multiple times when you attack your enemy.

what you are asking is just too powerful... imagine furor 100% chance to ripisote every ripiste on you you'll be doign AoE auto, multiple attacks fluirries an you'll simply waste everyone aroudn you.

A Single standard AA best

Its just the norm for the OP to ask for ridiculously overpowered changes.  He likes to paint with such wide strokes I wouldn't be surprised if he was related to Aeralik

Riposte could use some enhancements mechanicly, but the day we allow a riposte to ma/flurry MT's and their healers will scream.

Well. actually your right, there is "Riposte Damage", it doesn't need to MA.

But to balance out riposte damage from Brawlers they need there defensive stance to lower the damage ripostes do by 50%, since they have a ton more riposte chance.

It would also be nice if Gladiator's Revenge added Riposte Chance and Riposte Damage like it used to do.

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Old 09-09-2011, 04:52 PM   #18
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Riposte should hit as hard as a standard autoattack.

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Old 09-09-2011, 04:56 PM   #19
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Riposte should hit as hard as a standard autoattack.

Yes, but Tanks should all have about the same riposte DPS Damage, it would be a little bit more fair.

I don't know how that works out since brawlers have alot more riposte chance, I think other Fighters could use extra riposte damage along there trees.

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Old 09-10-2011, 02:24 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Which is why it should not be changed into a "true" melee swing that can MA and Flurry.  It should be equivalent to a single swing of the primary melee wep and treated as a proc in such a way.  In other words based on DPS mod, wep damage, and CB a roughly 15-25k melee hit in todays game.

Than it would scale up as gear and stats increase.

I'm fine with this as long as it is a single swing with no chance to MA / Flurry or Proc.

Remember, any change here will also affect NPC's and their riposte damage.   Be careful what we wish for, we might actually make the guard myth desireable =P.

*cuddles his weapon*  No!  You can't have Vel'Arek!

Anyways ... I think these ideas are good really ... make that riposte worth something when it goes off.

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Old 09-10-2011, 02:47 PM   #21
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Could also make 2 handers more viable for tanking by giving them additional riposte chance.

Also, dualwielding makes the mob riposte you more, making two-handers more viable.

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Old 09-11-2011, 12:04 AM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Honestly, anyone playing or developing for the game would understand the issues with riposte damage, it does not need a disertation about it.

It is clear from a mechanics and design standpoint that riposte damage was not intended to be particularly useful or effective.  The poster would like it to be counted as a true extra melee swing rather than what is effectively a chance to proc.

I personally think that represents some real scaling issues.  While I'd like riposte to be more meaningful, doing so would require nerfing other abilities to bring them in line.  For example anything that offers x% riposte chance for y durration would likely have to be nerfed if riposte was turned into a true melee swing.

easy peezy, consider a riposte as a reflect type of ability. mobs have it, we don't and it scales to the level of the mob.

there is no reason to overthink the ability or how it can be affected to be overpowering or underpowering.

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Old 09-11-2011, 03:21 AM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

SOE-MOD-08 wrote:

Please give an explanation as to why this needs to be done?  Calling out for nerfs/buffs without constructive reasoning violates forum guidelines.

Honestly, anyone playing or developing for the game would understand the issues with riposte damage, it does not need a disertation about it.

It is clear from a mechanics and design standpoint that riposte damage was not intended to be particularly useful or effective.  The poster would like it to be counted as a true extra melee swing rather than what is effectively a chance to proc.

I personally think that represents some real scaling issues.  While I'd like riposte to be more meaningful, doing so would require nerfing other abilities to bring them in line.  For example anything that offers x% riposte chance for y durration would likely have to be nerfed if riposte was turned into a true melee swing.

easy peezy, consider a riposte as a reflect type of ability. mobs have it, we don't and it scales to the level of the mob.

there is no reason to overthink the ability or how it can be affected to be overpowering or underpowering.

Yeah you could just change moves that were 100% chance to riposte into 10% chance to riposte and 90% chance to parry, its the same thing really, but since riposte would be doing 10x more damage then it did before it would be balanced, could also change some brawler skills into parry instead of riposte, maybe give meaning to "Your parrys have a 10% chance to riposte" adornmnents.

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Old 09-14-2011, 08:05 AM   #24
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Riposte - An offensive action with the intent of hitting one's opponent, made by the fencer who has just parried an attack.

You Riposte because you've parried an attack and the mob is off balance and can't defend as well. With this in mind it should be the same damage as normal auto attack and effected by DPS/Crit Bonus/Crit/Strength (Haste won't effect it anway) and it should NOT be avoidable by the mob. It should not be effected by potency since it isn't a CA and MA/Flurry/AOE would be a bit OP also. 

I also think that the base chance should be increased from 20% to 50%, so half of all parries are ripostes. Mobs should also beeffected by these changes also.

Seriously though, this change isn't really needed, the largest change for fighters that needs to happen is for ALL fighters to be have  Strikethrough immunity on their defensive temp buffs and for Brawlers to have it REMOVED from their defensive stance. This one stupidly thought out change is having a huge imbalance to all fighters, why add one mechanic and then make 2 classes immune to it? It's like giving a mob Mitigation Striketrhough (chance to ignore 50% of targets mitigation) then making Warriors immune to it in defensive stance. 

If you want mobs to auto attack more often, fine, but making 2 classes out of 6 immune to that damage? 

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Old 09-14-2011, 01:52 PM   #25
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that's only part of the problem, the other is the gap that is widening between tank aggro abilities and top tier dps, making it nearly impossible to maintain aggro without a stacked group and adding memwipes to add fuel to the fire. more proccing damage will help this situation to abilities that are wasting space in AA trees with almost no usefulness.

we already can see that the point of strikethrough was mainly to keep brawlers from taking up pitchforks and stakes, even though they weren't doing that bad in TSO.

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Old 09-14-2011, 02:36 PM   #26
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Soul_Dreamer wrote:

 This one stupidly thought out change is having a huge imbalance to all fighters, why add one mechanic and then make 2 classes immune to it? It's like giving a mob Mitigation Striketrhough (chance to ignore 50% of targets mitigation) then making Warriors immune to it in defensive stance. 

It was a band-aid fix for something and never re-evaluated by the eq2 team as a whole.

The results are not surprising. 

Don't worry though, in 14 months when they work on a real expansion, they might address the problem.  In the mean time, why haven't you geared your monk?

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Old 09-17-2011, 02:53 AM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

Soul_Dreamer wrote:

 This one stupidly thought out change is having a huge imbalance to all fighters, why add one mechanic and then make 2 classes immune to it? It's like giving a mob Mitigation Striketrhough (chance to ignore 50% of targets mitigation) then making Warriors immune to it in defensive stance. 

It was a band-aid fix for something and never re-evaluated by the eq2 team as a whole.

The results are not surprising. 

Don't worry though, in 14 months when they work on a real expansion, they might address the problem.  In the mean time, why haven't you geared your monk?

Soul_Dreamer makes a good point, though I don't think it's the one he meant to make.  Strikethrough is a terrible mechanic.  It's every bit as bad as your made up mitigation strikethrough would be.  The moral of the story is that strikethrough should be gotten rid of.

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Old 09-17-2011, 04:25 PM   #28
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Instead of Attack speed and DPS Mod, Riposte Damage would be good, that way all fighters get about the same amount of riposte damage in low end.

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