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Old 09-01-2011, 09:47 PM   #211
Bruener

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BChizzle wrote:

Bruener wrote:

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Sorry emergency/cc role is your role.

Nope.  Yours first with the tools of your class designed around it.  Need to get you back in line.

You are at the front of the line grabbing mobs after us brawlers die and holding them for us for a few secs, you are very useful in your role /pathead

Don't let the incoming nerfs hurt your feelings too bad.  Hey remember when Brawlers owned for tanking back in T5 due to broken avoidance mechanics.....yeah, that was a tough fall.

Go get 'em!!! /smackbutt

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Old 09-02-2011, 12:02 AM   #212
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Bruener wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Bruener wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Sorry emergency/cc role is your role.

Nope.  Yours first with the tools of your class designed around it.  Need to get you back in line.

You are at the front of the line grabbing mobs after us brawlers die and holding them for us for a few secs, you are very useful in your role /pathead

Don't let the incoming nerfs hurt your feelings too bad.  Hey remember when Brawlers owned for tanking back in T5 due to broken avoidance mechanics.....yeah, that was a tough fall.

Go get 'em!!! /smackbutt

There are no incoming nerfs at all and brawlers dont need anything besides a little more recast on their deathsave.  Remember when you were able to not even use an OT and could just have an SK tank everything, well its not coming back.

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Old 09-02-2011, 01:31 AM   #213
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Bruener wrote:

Naw, you should go back to your emergency/CC role SOE gave you the tools for in the first place where Leathers belong.

Paladins/Guards - MT

SK/Zerk - OT.

Ahh, so the truth comes out. You don't want fighter balance, you want to go back to the days when Brawlers weren't even in the running for tank positions and you only had to compete with 3 other classes instead of 5. Sorry, but brawlers are tanks, that's what we've always been designed to do, even if the mechanics didn't always work properly. You're going to have to deal with the fact that we "leathers" can not just perform adequately, but even excel as tanks in today's game. I wish I could feel more sympathy for your plight, because it seems like our roles have simply reversed and you're now getting a bit of the bitter taste that we brawlers have had to stomach for years previous, but your attitude is making it very difficult. I understand that you don't represent the entire shadowknight community, but if your primary agenda is to get brawlers nerfed so that we go back to being merely this mythical "emergency tank" role you seem to have pulled from the deepest recesses of your imagination, I am inclined to hope that the devs let you languish for another few years until you learn what the actual definition of "balance" is.

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Old 09-02-2011, 05:14 AM   #214
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tbh fighter avoidance should have only ever been given to brawlers in the first place....

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Old 09-02-2011, 10:08 AM   #215
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The_Cheeseman wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Naw, you should go back to your emergency/CC role SOE gave you the tools for in the first place where Leathers belong.

Paladins/Guards - MT

SK/Zerk - OT.

Ahh, so the truth comes out. You don't want fighter balance, you want to go back to the days when Brawlers weren't even in the running for tank positions and you only had to compete with 3 other classes instead of 5. Sorry, but brawlers are tanks, that's what we've always been designed to do, even if the mechanics didn't always work properly. You're going to have to deal with the fact that we "leathers" can not just perform adequately, but even excel as tanks in today's game. I wish I could feel more sympathy for your plight, because it seems like our roles have simply reversed and you're now getting a bit of the bitter taste that we brawlers have had to stomach for years previous, but your attitude is making it very difficult. I understand that you don't represent the entire shadowknight community, but if your primary agenda is to get brawlers nerfed so that we go back to being merely this mythical "emergency tank" role you seem to have pulled from the deepest recesses of your imagination, I am inclined to hope that the devs let you languish for another few years until you learn what the actual definition of "balance" is.

No, I want things to go back to SF balance.  This is where Brawlers could do any tank spot the BEST for a SHORT duration based on their temps.  Fighter DPS was good, and Brawlers should be at the top.  Utility that Brawlers bring buffing the MT is the BEST and hence every raid should want/need one.  Allowing Brawlers to be the BEST at everything ALL the time is not balanced.

I also didn't agree when SKs were prime MT material in TSO.  I still don't think they should be and loved seeing Guards restored with the abilities to be that spot.  I would like to see the Paladin pushed up to be the major competition for that spot...not Brawlers.

You can call it OT if you want if that makes you feel better about your spot.  Its CC, a 2nd OT spot.  The one that can save a raid just by picking up anything if another tank dies.  The one that can run across the room and grab a mob without healers and the worry about dying.  No other tanks are given the type of tools do control mobs like Brawlers are.  Don't you think there is some reason that those tools were given out?

If suddenly SOE wants to change their vision and delegate that position to other Tanks...than they HAVE to give similar tools to do that job.  Right now they don't exist on other Fighters in the abundance they do on Brawlers, and in the case of some abilities that are similar on other Fighters they do not have nearly as fast of a recast.

It is way more healthy for Fighter mechanics to have 2 types of Fighters competing per slot versus all 6 competing for 3 spots, and 2 of those Fighters being the best for all 3 spots.

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Old 09-02-2011, 10:33 AM   #216
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2nd OT and CC is your job Duele grats and enjoy, meanwhile on realistic land the rest of us will stick with the ST tanks being best on ST and AE tanks being best on AE.

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Old 09-02-2011, 11:17 AM   #217
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BChizzle wrote:

2nd OT and CC is your job Duele grats and enjoy, meanwhile on realistic land the rest of us will stick with the ST tanks being best on ST and AE tanks being best on AE.

You make no sense.  Right now "ST" tanks own ST by a huge margin...oh and they have better tools to handle AE as well.  Monks still take way less damage than "AE" tanks on groups of mobs and can hold agro against a raid just fine due to transfers/hate buffs and abilities like Mantis with being able to smack every mob in front of them every auto attack round.  Not to mention that a Monk have survival abilities that work awesome on ST and even better on AE.  You know, things like Tsunami.

Or how about the fact that Bruisers are stronger than any other Fighter on ST excepting maybe Monk when it comes to survivability.

IF, and that is a big if because SOE has blurred the lines a ton, IF tanks are supposed to be divided into ST and AE categories than above Fighters need adjustments made to make sure they are in the position they should be.  They also need to rework on abilities to make sure they are more ST focused instead of the best in both areas.  I am sure all those "heroic" tanks would love that.

The way it is now the "AE" tanks can't even come close to ST tanking like Brawlers and Guards.  So the vice versa needs to be set up to make sure those ST tanks CAN'T even come close to surviving one mob hitting on them like AE tanks can.  You know, this might be a great idea you have.  It could be real easy to fix as well....abilities that are designed to avoid damage coming in fast on ST tanks just need to be changed to not work that way and instead should be changed to work more towards ST.  Like Tsunami could be the parry ability it is, but could change it for the target of the monk only.  The all around damage reduction would need to be changed since it provides an even better benefit against multiple mobs (talking about the 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds that can be up every 10 seconds the Brawler is hit) because if you have multiple mobs on you it basically guarantees 30% damage reduction 30% of the time from every mob.

Yeah maybe you are right.  Maybe we should try and split them better into ST and AE.  Oh, and of course there needs to be a lot more AE need for Fighters on raids than too.  Lots more adds...and not talking a ST add that is basically another named.  We need lots of multiple mobs spawning on every encounter that tear through the raid unless they are tanks (so not something scouts and mages can tank for the 5 seconds it takes to kill them like in TSO).

I really don't think the ST tanks outside of raiding would like these changes too much though....

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Old 09-02-2011, 11:40 AM   #218
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This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5622863 Removed for trolling
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:45 AM   #219
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Bruener wrote:

You make no sense.  Right now "ST" tanks own ST by a huge margin...oh and they have better tools to handle AE as well.  Monks still take way less damage than "AE" tanks on groups of mobs and can hold agro against a raid just fine due to transfers/hate buffs and abilities like Mantis with being able to smack every mob in front of them every auto attack round.  Not to mention that a Monk have survival abilities that work awesome on ST and even better on AE.  You know, things like Tsunami.

Or how about the fact that Bruisers are stronger than any other Fighter on ST excepting maybe Monk when it comes to survivability.

IF, and that is a big if because SOE has blurred the lines a ton, IF tanks are supposed to be divided into ST and AE categories than above Fighters need adjustments made to make sure they are in the position they should be.  Monks should not be able to hold multiple mobs off of healers even....which is balanced since "AE" tanks can't even come close to standing up to a ST in survivability like Monks can.  There also needs to be a rework on abilities to make sure they are more ST focused instead of the best in both areas.  I am sure all those "heroic" tanks would love that.

The way it is now the "AE" tanks can't even come close to ST tanking like Brawlers and Guards.  So the vice versa needs to be set up to make sure those ST tanks CAN'T even come close to surviving one mob hitting on them like AE tanks can.  You know, this might be a great idea you have.  It could be real easy to fix as well....abilities that are designed to avoid damage coming in fast on ST tanks just need to be changed to not work that way and instead should be changed to work more towards ST.  Like Tsunami could be the parry ability it is, but could change it for the target of the monk only.  The all around damage reduction would need to be changed since it provides an even better benefit against multiple mobs (talking about the 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds that can be up every 10 seconds the Brawler is hit) because if you have multiple mobs on you it basically guarantees 30% damage reduction 30% of the time from every mob.

Yeah maybe you are right.  Maybe we should try and split them better into ST and AE.  Oh, and of course there needs to be a lot more AE need for Fighters on raids than too.  Lots more adds...and not talking a ST add that is basically another named.  We need lots of multiple mobs spawning on every encounter that tear through the raid unless they are tanks (so not something scouts and mages can tank for the 5 seconds it takes to kill them like in TSO).

I really don't think the ST tanks outside of raiding would like these changes too much though....

Wrong, monks don't take better ae damage and they dont hold ae agro as effectively.

I'd explain it to you but you aren't smart enough to understand.

You really have no idea what other tanks can do and all you do is constantly ask for the dumbest things that would basically break classes all the while trying to make yours a god again.  Please just do us a favor and go back to your emergency tank role you created for yourself.

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Old 09-02-2011, 11:47 AM   #220
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[email protected] wrote:

Same old thread by the same old people...

Every expansion its the same thing from him, nerf other tanks buff SK.

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Old 09-02-2011, 11:50 AM   #221
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BChizzle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Same old thread by the same old people...

Every expansion its the same thing from him, balance tanks.

Yep.

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Old 09-02-2011, 12:36 PM   #222
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Thread locked due to being derailed.  Remember, when posting please keep your comments constructive.  Thank you. 

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