EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Class Discussion > Fighter's Arena
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-10-2012, 05:24 PM   #1
Talathion
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Cladire Mortii
Rank: Initiate/Slave

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,780
Default

This would prevent physical spike damage and put Plate Tanks more on-par with brawlers.

Talathion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2012, 10:27 PM   #2
Kaberu

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 405
Default

We already have something like that... it's call using a shield and speccing defensively. I have spike damage problems when I dual wield and go offensive too.  And no, I don't have aggro problems.

Kaberu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 06:52 PM   #3
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

I haven't studied my guild's monks avoidance reports, but my first response was MA immunity would be way more beneficial than strike-through. The thing is, which is more beneficial depends on how much MA and ST the particular mobs you're fighting has, and all that can change in a GU.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 07:52 PM   #4
The_Cheeseman

Loremaster
The_Cheeseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,285
Default

We don't need a mechanic-immunity arms race that will only end up making things more unbalanced in the long run. What we need is for the devs to stop inventing patently absurd mechanics like Strikethrough to compensate for their equally-absurd combat mechanics. Scrap Strikethrough, remove the entire concept of uncontested avoidance (except for short-duration temp buffs), and actually balance raid MOBs for the intended accuracy/avoidance values players are expected to bring to the encounter.

Oh, but that would require actually paying attention to itemization and stat progression, rather than letting LootScript9000 do it all, and then being surprised when your raids are either trivial or impossible.

__________________
The_Cheeseman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:36 AM   #5
Caethre

Loremaster
Caethre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,167
Default

(( A first step would be learning the first, most basic thing about how to play a fighter class when TANKING against CHALLENGING CONTENT for your gear level. This first step is common to all six fighter classes, for players who have even a basic understanding of how the game is intended to work.

1. FIGHT CHALLENGING CONTENT FOR YOUR GEAR LEVEL.

Don't define or compare classes based on "bottom-feeding", "power-levelling" or ability to mow through utterly trivialized content.

If you simply must buy "loot rights" to gear where you cannot handle the content yourself and then use that superior gear you have not earned in battle to tank against (with that gear) trivialized content, do not assume that content or mechanics should be modified to your advantage with that approach to gaming in mind

Furthermore, if you are a tank and you INSIST on buying loot rights so as to trivialize content so you can tank it in offensive stance, do not then whine on and on about differences between stances on that basis, or become obsessed with your "parse"!

It helps if you actually know what a tank's PRIMARY role in a group is. Hint: It isn't DPS. 

2. TANK IN DEFENSIVE.

Once you have decided you should be fighting challenging content, not trivial content, this becomes obvious if you are playing a tank class.

If you are facing challenging content, with a group for which as a whole the content is challenging, then you should be in DEFENSIVE stance. If you are not, you are an idiot. Sorry, there is no point pulling that punch - the tank's PRIMARY role is to soak up and/or avoid incoming damage and hold aggro, it is not to be top of the DPS parse.

I don't care if you are a monk, a guardian, a beserker or whatever, if you are a fighter class and you are the MT for a group or raid that is challenging for your gear level, you should be in Defensive.

Comparing "offensive" stances for tanks is frankly un-important to our primary role.

Learn it. Use it. Embrace it.

3. SET UP FOR DEFENSIVE. AAs, Buffs, the works.

This goes hand-in-hand with point 2 above.

However, if you INSIST on refusing to use all the defensive options available to your class, and THEN still complain you die too much against challenging content, then again, you are an idiot. For example, if you are a plate tank, stick on that shield, it is what you are designed to use for maximum defence. Stop whining about your parse, GET FULLY DEFENSIVE and fulfil your core role.

As for people like the OP of this thread, there is a reason why people still disband when he joins a raid. If you play a fighter but all you care about is bottom-feeding and DPS parses, roll a scout and leave tanking (for all six classes) to players who actually know how to tank and want to play that role properly ))

__________________
Countess Felishanna Silorielenwe [92/320 Templar|92 Sage](Koada`Dal)

Lady Lorianna Ardinwena [92/320 Monk|92 Carpenter](Koada`Dal)

Lady Suzanna Narinyaare [92/320 Conjuror|92 Woodworker](Koada`Dal)

Lady Annaelisa Lorinfinlinde [92/320 Fury|92 Tailor](Koada`Dal)

Lady Silvianna [92/320 Illusionist|92 Jeweler](Koada`Dal)

Jennianna [92/320 Dirge|92 Weaponsmith](Koada`Dal)

Aurielle [92/320 Wizard|92 Alchemist](Koada`Dal)

Valerianna [92/320 Guardian|92 Armourer](Koada`Dal)

Sarahanna [92/320 Swashbuckler|92 Provisioner](Koada`Dal)

Katherianna [92/286 Beserker|92 Sage](Koada`Dal)

Guildleader of The True Path - A roleplay-based guild (level 77) on Antonia Bayle
Caethre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 12:57 PM   #6
Talathion
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Cladire Mortii
Rank: Initiate/Slave

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,780
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

(( A first step would be learning the first, most basic thing about how to play a fighter class when TANKING against CHALLENGING CONTENT for your gear level. This first step is common to all six fighter classes, for players who have even a basic understanding of how the game is intended to work.

1. FIGHT CHALLENGING CONTENT FOR YOUR GEAR LEVEL.

Don't define or compare classes based on "bottom-feeding", "power-levelling" or ability to mow through utterly trivialized content.

If you simply must buy "loot rights" to gear where you cannot handle the content yourself and then use that superior gear you have not earned in battle to tank against (with that gear) trivialized content, do not assume that content or mechanics should be modified to your advantage with that approach to gaming in mind

Furthermore, if you are a tank and you INSIST on buying loot rights so as to trivialize content so you can tank it in offensive stance, do not then whine on and on about differences between stances on that basis, or become obsessed with your "parse"!

It helps if you actually know what a tank's PRIMARY role in a group is. Hint: It isn't DPS. 

2. TANK IN DEFENSIVE.

Once you have decided you should be fighting challenging content, not trivial content, this becomes obvious if you are playing a tank class.

If you are facing challenging content, with a group for which as a whole the content is challenging, then you should be in DEFENSIVE stance. If you are not, you are an idiot. Sorry, there is no point pulling that punch - the tank's PRIMARY role is to soak up and/or avoid incoming damage and hold aggro, it is not to be top of the DPS parse.

I don't care if you are a monk, a guardian, a beserker or whatever, if you are a fighter class and you are the MT for a group or raid that is challenging for your gear level, you should be in Defensive.

Comparing "offensive" stances for tanks is frankly un-important to our primary role.

Learn it. Use it. Embrace it.

3. SET UP FOR DEFENSIVE. AAs, Buffs, the works.

This goes hand-in-hand with point 2 above.

However, if you INSIST on refusing to use all the defensive options available to your class, and THEN still complain you die too much against challenging content, then again, you are an idiot. For example, if you are a plate tank, stick on that shield, it is what you are designed to use for maximum defence. Stop whining about your parse, GET FULLY DEFENSIVE and fulfil your core role.

As for people like the OP of this thread, there is a reason why people still disband when he joins a raid. If you play a fighter but all you care about is bottom-feeding and DPS parses, roll a scout and leave tanking (for all six classes) to players who actually know how to tank and want to play that role properly ))

You know, I made this thread along time ago... a little before the expac came out I think, don't really care about it anymore.

So question...

Who is your berserker, since your giving me class advice as well, I would like to know her name and what shes tanked.  I would like to know her name so I can look at her gear choices and what her achievements are and her AAs.

Has your tank been in any raids lately? (EM/HM, Name them.) How many nameds have you killed?

What Hardmode Heroic Instances has your tank tanked?

Talathion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 02:00 PM   #7
Caethre

Loremaster
Caethre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,167
Default

(( Your "questions" are irrelevant, firstly because you already know the answers (hint: I list my characters in my signature above), and secondly, because they are entirely beside the point I was making.

Why?

Because the basic role of a tank (every fighter class) is known by every player who has been playing for any length of time. I expect every single player who had ever been in a group to know the role of a tank in a group, and every single player who has ever been in a raid, to know the role of a tank in a raid. I suspect every single person reading this forum (other than the occasional total newbie perhaps) will know at a basic level what a tank is meant to be doing. That should even include those players who have never even played a tank, never mind those like myself who have tanked for groups and raids for many years!

This is not "class" advice. It is basic EverQuest II group role description. And it is not rocket science either.

It is REALLY REALLY simple, basic stuff.

However, even after years of playing a tank, you continue to demonstrate that you have still not grasped these basics. This is why you keep having problems and keep coming to these forums to complain - evidenced by the sheer number of complaint posts YOU personally have on the front page of these forums.

Go ahead, roll a monk or a bruiser, do it, I challenge you.

I confidently predict you will still have the same problems you have now, you will keep dieing and you will still say its all "SOE doing their balancing badly". But this really has nothing to do with SOE, and nothing to do with the class you are playing, it is not even down to playing skill, but rather it has everything to do with your poor understanding/acceptance of the core role of a tank in a group or raid.

My advice remains the same:

- Stop continually bottom-feeding and only buying loot

- When TANKING CHALLENGING CONTENT, use a full defensive setup and stop being parse-obsessed. Then you won't keep dieing over and over, and causing groups/raids you join to keep wiping.

- This in turn might lead to less of the incessant complaining and petty class jealousy you keep coming out with.

Failing all of this, just re-roll as a scout. Then you can concentrate on the DPS you are so obsessed with ))

__________________
Countess Felishanna Silorielenwe [92/320 Templar|92 Sage](Koada`Dal)

Lady Lorianna Ardinwena [92/320 Monk|92 Carpenter](Koada`Dal)

Lady Suzanna Narinyaare [92/320 Conjuror|92 Woodworker](Koada`Dal)

Lady Annaelisa Lorinfinlinde [92/320 Fury|92 Tailor](Koada`Dal)

Lady Silvianna [92/320 Illusionist|92 Jeweler](Koada`Dal)

Jennianna [92/320 Dirge|92 Weaponsmith](Koada`Dal)

Aurielle [92/320 Wizard|92 Alchemist](Koada`Dal)

Valerianna [92/320 Guardian|92 Armourer](Koada`Dal)

Sarahanna [92/320 Swashbuckler|92 Provisioner](Koada`Dal)

Katherianna [92/286 Beserker|92 Sage](Koada`Dal)

Guildleader of The True Path - A roleplay-based guild (level 77) on Antonia Bayle
Caethre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 02:55 PM   #8
Talathion
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Cladire Mortii
Rank: Initiate/Slave

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,780
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

(( Your "questions" are irrelevant, firstly because you already know the answers (hint: I list my characters in my signature above), and secondly, because they are entirely beside the point I was making.

Why?

Because the basic role of a tank (every fighter class) is known by every player who has been playing for any length of time. I expect every single player who had ever been in a group to know the role of a tank in a group, and every single player who has ever been in a raid, to know the role of a tank in a raid. I suspect every single person reading this forum (other than the occasional total newbie perhaps) will know at a basic level what a tank is meant to be doing. That should even include those players who have never even played a tank, never mind those like myself who have tanked for groups and raids for many years!

This is not "class" advice. It is basic EverQuest II group role description. And it is not rocket science either.

It is REALLY REALLY simple, basic stuff.

However, even after years of playing a tank, you continue to demonstrate that you have still not grasped these basics. This is why you keep having problems and keep coming to these forums to complain - evidenced by the sheer number of complaint posts YOU personally have on the front page of these forums.

Go ahead, roll a monk or a bruiser, do it, I challenge you.

I confidently predict you will still have the same problems you have now, you will keep dieing and you will still say its all "SOE doing their balancing badly". But this really has nothing to do with SOE, and nothing to do with the class you are playing, it is not even down to playing skill, but rather it has everything to do with your poor understanding/acceptance of the core role of a tank in a group or raid.

My advice remains the same:

- Stop continually bottom-feeding and only buying loot

- When TANKING CHALLENGING CONTENT, use a full defensive setup and stop being parse-obsessed. Then you won't keep dieing over and over, and causing groups/raids you join to keep wiping.

- This in turn might lead to less of the incessant complaining and petty class jealousy you keep coming out with.

Failing all of this, just re-roll as a scout. Then you can concentrate on the DPS you are so obsessed with )

So, basicly you have "no idea" what your talking about.

Sorry, but every fighter is unique to eachother, we have different strengths and weaknesses and we all hold aggro differently.

Defensive Stance... ours is worthless, compared to a brawler its laughable, my level 4 and 91 defensive stance are almost no different... do you know what our offensive stance even does... it improves hate... but LOL you wouldn't even know because you don't even play a berserker.

Shoving on "defensive" gear like a shield would make it incredably hard to hold aggro, why, because "berserkers" get aggro by getting hit, 25% of all damage we take goes straight to hate, thats how we hold aggro off T1/T0 DPS classes like Beastlord/Assassin without help.  In fact, most of my skills require me getting hit to get stronger... putting on a shield would destroy that!

 Oh... I forgot you don't even play a berserker, so you don't even know what i'm talking about. 

Roll a 92 Berserker/Get 320 AA and tank something hard, then tell me how to play my class, otherwise, just be how you are now, which I cannot say on the forums...

Talathion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 03:27 PM   #9
Caethre

Loremaster
Caethre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,167
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

So, basicly you have "no idea" what your talking about.

Sorry, but every fighter is unique to eachother, we have different strengths and weaknesses and we all hold aggro differently.

Defensive Stance... ours is worthless, compared to a brawler its laughable, my level 4 and 91 defensive stance are almost no different... do you know what our offensive stance even does... it improves hate... but LOL you wouldn't even know because you don't even play a berserker.

Shoving on "defensive" gear like a shield would make it incredably hard to hold aggro, why, because "berserkers" get aggro by getting hit, 25% of all damage we take goes straight to hate, thats how we hold aggro off T1/T0 DPS classes like Beastlord/Assassin without help.  In fact, most of my skills require me getting hit to get stronger... putting on a shield would destroy that!

Oh... I forgot you don't even play a berserker, so you don't even know what i'm talking about. 

Roll a 92 Berserker/Get 320 AA and tank something hard, then tell me how to play my class, otherwise, just be how you are now, which I cannot say on the forums.

(( You are still not getting the message.

THIS GAME IS EASY.

An experienced player should be able to play any class fairly quickly to at least 80% of its potential. And it wouldn't take long to get to 90%. And that is just for casual players, never mind the hardcore types who will get to 98% pretty quickly.

Your "pretence" that the Beserker class is somehow fundamentally more difficult to play than the other 24 classes is nonsense, and you know it (or you should). All classes have their own class-specific issues, that's definitely true, but your pretestations are as loud as they are endless, and all of them do not deal with reality. Sure, I do not play a Beserker. I do not need to, I group with them.

I see them SUCCEED tanking challenging content, even if you personally find you cannot.

Unlike you, I do not need to roll another class, I am not failing, you are the one who is failing, and you are posting on these forums endlessly about those failures, forever blaming the class.

So go on, roll that Brawler, you keep saying you will. Do it. See how you do. I predict you will continue to fail, because your priorities are wrong. There is a reason that you, specifically you, keep wiping your groups and raids. It is not the class. It is the player.

Until you learn the PRIMARY role of a main tank in a group or raid (regardless of the fighter class concerned), that won't be changing anytime soon. I cannot give you class-specific advice, that much is true, but I can give you a basic idea of your role as a tank, something you are still failing to understand.

HINT:Your PRIMARY role is not DPS and "maxing your parse" whilst ignoring your defensive tools ))

__________________
Countess Felishanna Silorielenwe [92/320 Templar|92 Sage](Koada`Dal)

Lady Lorianna Ardinwena [92/320 Monk|92 Carpenter](Koada`Dal)

Lady Suzanna Narinyaare [92/320 Conjuror|92 Woodworker](Koada`Dal)

Lady Annaelisa Lorinfinlinde [92/320 Fury|92 Tailor](Koada`Dal)

Lady Silvianna [92/320 Illusionist|92 Jeweler](Koada`Dal)

Jennianna [92/320 Dirge|92 Weaponsmith](Koada`Dal)

Aurielle [92/320 Wizard|92 Alchemist](Koada`Dal)

Valerianna [92/320 Guardian|92 Armourer](Koada`Dal)

Sarahanna [92/320 Swashbuckler|92 Provisioner](Koada`Dal)

Katherianna [92/286 Beserker|92 Sage](Koada`Dal)

Guildleader of The True Path - A roleplay-based guild (level 77) on Antonia Bayle
Caethre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 04:14 PM   #10
Silzin
Server: Crushbone
Guild: Revelations
Rank: Raider

Loremaster
Silzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 537
Default

Talathion, the problem with your agro logic is that you get far less agro from the abilities that give u agro when u get hit, than you get from a Sin/Swash Trancfer, or having a Coercer hate+ trancfer. not to mention the masive hate boost from having a Dirge hate.  also Adorning for hate so u have buffed 100% hate meens that regardles of stance and shield or not shield u should not lose agro on any one that is not another tank buffed.  

__________________
Silzin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 06:45 PM   #11
Talathion
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Cladire Mortii
Rank: Initiate/Slave

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,780
Default

I don't have any problems tanking anything, don't see why your all making it out like I do.

Talathion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2012, 12:43 PM   #12
Yimway

Loremaster
Yimway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,707
Default

MA immunity is a bad idea.

The better change is to allow each hit of an MA trigger defensive procs / abilities.

__________________
Yimway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:24 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.