Issues with guardian. . .

vaalen · 12-13-2004, 01:32 PM

Hi!

I'm playing a 39 gaurdian. I'm not going to say "This class sucks". >But< Guardian class has few serious issues that breaks it.

Taunt and holding agro: (used taunts/skills are all adept1- master1) I don't know if it's a bug or it works as intended but hate works like this right now: If Tank has i.e. 100 hate and second person on the list 99 hate, it all works fine. But if the 2nd guy gets to 101, the tank needs like 200 hate to take agro back. That's the reason why rescue doesn't work sometimes or you have to taunt alot to take the agro, caused by a single skill, back.

When grouped with certain classes, specially when you hit 32-33+, you need to spend alot of your power tauntung or you lose agro and you can never get it back. For me it seems like Monk/bruiser and zerkers generate to much hate with their skills to help them tank better. They have high dps too which helps them keep agro easier. However guardians seriously lack in this area. Our skills don't generate the hate they should and we don't have the dps either. We have 2 skills that are supposed to lower our attack but generate more hate with each hit. They work, but they don't generate enough hate at all.

It's a big problem since we have less issues keeping agro with scouts and mages in group, but we can't compete with other tanks. In my opinion guardians should be able to generate as much hate as other tanks at least, without spending much more power than they do. Again, think about it, we have no problem with scouts or mages which are real dps classes. We have probs when grouped with other tanks.

Taking damage: Well, normally and on paper guardians can take much more damage than other tanks. Thats no question. However i exprienced something that started to bug me. We tried to do Everfrost access with our guild. We tried it with 2 clerics/3 dps and guardian. The fight is LONG cause the dragon on boat has alot of HP. We got the guy to 40% and had to evac cause clerics were oop. It was obvious that we were lacking dps. Next day, we replaced the cleric with a chanter and the guardian with a paladin. They tried it and won. Then we went in with guardian instead of paladin and we got him to 50%. The reason was obvious: Paladin takes more damage but they can heal themself almost as good as a healer. So over time they take much less damage than a guardian. FYI guardian was 38 and paladin 35 with almost same gear. I talked to our cleric and he told me he takes paladins over guardians everyday cause it's much more easier for healers to keep up.

However: It was just one test, so perhaps it was just bad luck.

Protection Skills: I think our protection skills should give more feed back to both guardian and the group member. For 2 reasons: 1) we can't even test if our shield line works or not right now. 2) So people know what value the guardian and his skills have. After we get more feedback about our skills we can start to test if they are even worth it.

Buffs Duration: Although it's not a guardian only problem. Our buffs which define this class last very short. As a tank you can't pull, keep agro, deal with adds etc. AND keep 4-5 lines of 3 min buffs up everytime.

My intention was to keep this post constructive and so we can actually help to improve this class. Most people i have seen on higher levels agree that guardians in general need a boost. Keep the thoughts coming.

Moontayle · 12-13-2004, 04:16 PM

That's a different take than what a level 40 Guardian had to say a few days ago. However, that isn't to say that your take on it is wrong either.

1. I will agree that taunt abilities need more work since that's our bread and butter and what we're paid to do, however, aggro is a two way street. Simply put, if it is your job to hold aggro, then it is everyone elses job to make sure they don't steal it. (and yes, I'm sure you're dealing with competant people, but this is in general)

2. Not gonna argue with you there. However, I think a large part of this comes from the inability to effectively mitigate damage from specials. While watching my combat spam in a recent fight, every single special the mob landed on me hit for full damage. Regular hits were going from between 50-90 damage but those specials... Good lord. I hope they fix this, and soon.

3. Agreed.

4. And agreed. I'd take a 15 minute timer with an increased power cost to balance it out. Having to recast every three minutes is a major pain in the rear.

At one point last year, SWG had each community come up with a top 5 issues list to present to the devs. I hope the EQ2 devs do the same here soon.

RafaelSmith · 12-13-2004, 08:38 PM

As a lowbie level 24 guardian posts like these are both interesting yet discourging to read. These seem to be exactly the same sorta issues I am experiencing at the lower guardin levels. DMG taking is the only one i really havent noticed much problem with..that is assuming I am the one taking the damage which is the real issue...AGGRO. Which leads me to believe that yes there is a problem and some tweakin of the guardian class needs to be done now..for guardians of all levels.I am sticking with guardian regardless...cause..well I never run from a fight. =P

12-13-2004, 01:32 PM	#1
vaalen General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30	Hi! I'm playing a 39 gaurdian. I'm not going to say "This class sucks". >But< Guardian class has few serious issues that breaks it. Taunt and holding agro: (used taunts/skills are all adept1- master1) I don't know if it's a bug or it works as intended but hate works like this right now: If Tank has i.e. 100 hate and second person on the list 99 hate, it all works fine. But if the 2nd guy gets to 101, the tank needs like 200 hate to take agro back. That's the reason why rescue doesn't work sometimes or you have to taunt alot to take the agro, caused by a single skill, back. When grouped with certain classes, specially when you hit 32-33+, you need to spend alot of your power tauntung or you lose agro and you can never get it back. For me it seems like Monk/bruiser and zerkers generate to much hate with their skills to help them tank better. They have high dps too which helps them keep agro easier. However guardians seriously lack in this area. Our skills don't generate the hate they should and we don't have the dps either. We have 2 skills that are supposed to lower our attack but generate more hate with each hit. They work, but they don't generate enough hate at all. It's a big problem since we have less issues keeping agro with scouts and mages in group, but we can't compete with other tanks. In my opinion guardians should be able to generate as much hate as other tanks at least, without spending much more power than they do. Again, think about it, we have no problem with scouts or mages which are real dps classes. We have probs when grouped with other tanks. Taking damage: Well, normally and on paper guardians can take much more damage than other tanks. Thats no question. However i exprienced something that started to bug me. We tried to do Everfrost access with our guild. We tried it with 2 clerics/3 dps and guardian. The fight is LONG cause the dragon on boat has alot of HP. We got the guy to 40% and had to evac cause clerics were oop. It was obvious that we were lacking dps. Next day, we replaced the cleric with a chanter and the guardian with a paladin. They tried it and won. Then we went in with guardian instead of paladin and we got him to 50%. The reason was obvious: Paladin takes more damage but they can heal themself almost as good as a healer. So over time they take much less damage than a guardian. FYI guardian was 38 and paladin 35 with almost same gear. I talked to our cleric and he told me he takes paladins over guardians everyday cause it's much more easier for healers to keep up. However: It was just one test, so perhaps it was just bad luck. Protection Skills: I think our protection skills should give more feed back to both guardian and the group member. For 2 reasons: 1) we can't even test if our shield line works or not right now. 2) So people know what value the guardian and his skills have. After we get more feedback about our skills we can start to test if they are even worth it. Buffs Duration: Although it's not a guardian only problem. Our buffs which define this class last very short. As a tank you can't pull, keep agro, deal with adds etc. AND keep 4-5 lines of 3 min buffs up everytime. My intention was to keep this post constructive and so we can actually help to improve this class. Most people i have seen on higher levels agree that guardians in general need a boost. Keep the thoughts coming.

12-13-2004, 04:16 PM	#2
Moontayle Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	That's a different take than what a level 40 Guardian had to say a few days ago. However, that isn't to say that your take on it is wrong either. 1. I will agree that taunt abilities need more work since that's our bread and butter and what we're paid to do, however, aggro is a two way street. Simply put, if it is your job to hold aggro, then it is everyone elses job to make sure they don't steal it. (and yes, I'm sure you're dealing with competant people, but this is in general) 2. Not gonna argue with you there. However, I think a large part of this comes from the inability to effectively mitigate damage from specials. While watching my combat spam in a recent fight, every single special the mob landed on me hit for full damage. Regular hits were going from between 50-90 damage but those specials... Good lord. I hope they fix this, and soon. 3. Agreed. 4. And agreed. I'd take a 15 minute timer with an increased power cost to balance it out. Having to recast every three minutes is a major pain in the rear. At one point last year, SWG had each community come up with a top 5 issues list to present to the devs. I hope the EQ2 devs do the same here soon. __________________ Regards, Trayson, Guardian of Gnomish Marine Corps Writer in Progress Current Project: Daryn. 21k written out of 100k planned.

12-13-2004, 08:38 PM	#3
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	As a lowbie level 24 guardian posts like these are both interesting yet discourging to read. These seem to be exactly the same sorta issues I am experiencing at the lower guardin levels. DMG taking is the only one i really havent noticed much problem with..that is assuming I am the one taking the damage which is the real issue...AGGRO. Which leads me to believe that yes there is a problem and some tweakin of the guardian class needs to be done now..for guardians of all levels.I am sticking with guardian regardless...cause..well I never run from a fight. =P __________________