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Old 07-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #1
N2de

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Why are we overlooked as warlocks?

SOE had no idea what the class should be or do? Warlocks were added as fluff... give them another top tier class to play... period.

AoE, as a raider.... what tank/ pally in my group can hold my aggro?

I have one job... burn adds. Give me something that allows me to do this with out getting me killed.

100AA / 50 - 70 Mastered 95% EOF Gear and very disappointed with the class.

I have 6 other 70 toons...why because warlocks get NO love... how many do you have in your guild?  1 at most 2, is that enough... there are commonly 3 of each other class.

Seriously... SOE had NO idea what to do with the class... we can NOT be balanced... warlocks are AoE... but I out parse wizards on single target epics?

your thoughts?

Manaburn, Evac, Lifeburn, FD, COH...Warlock utility?

Another question,....why should a swash who is doing almost or more DPS than a warlock get hate dump to MT? [I cannot control my vocabulary]?

 People who sit around and [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moan about this class but ask for no action are USELESS! Why even post a topic if your not going to the root of the problem.

And Rift... dont even get me started...what a hose job.

I thought to myself back in the day... there is a whole crew of people over at SOE working to make the game better...now I'm starting to think there is like one guy to reboot ALL the servers and a handful of others including the janitor to improve content and balance/fix broken classes.

NOW... here is the sad fact, $$$. SOE carse just enough to please the popular classes to make $$$.

As I sit here for a "brief" update the has now taken 2 hours I ask myself and ask you the question as a warlock... why do we not ban together as other classes have and be herd as a whole...the answer lies in you as warlock and a patron of the game...question the abilities of our class, ask for our problems as a whole to be fixed, ask to NOT be overlooked as we have.

We will never have a voice devided.

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Old 07-19-2007, 01:21 PM   #2
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N2deep wrote:

Why are we overlooked as warlocks?

SOE had no idea what the class should be or do? Warlocks were added as fluff... give them another top tier class to play... period.

AoE, as a raider.... what tank/ pally in my group can hold my aggro?

What does it matter what tank/Pally in your group can hold aggro on a raid?  I parse 2k-2.5k pretty consistently, and i don't pull aggro. Berserker tank, dirge and coercer hate.

I have one job... burn adds. Give me something that allows me to do this with out getting me killed.

You have a problem controlling your aggro, don't blame the class because the only ones on this forum complaining about it are the ones who feel like they should be able to roll in on a raid and just wtfpwn everything with mindless dps.  If you want a ridiculously easy to DPS class without worrying about pulling aggro roll a hate xfer scout.

100AA / 50 - 70 Mastered 95% EOF Gear and very disappointed with the class.

I have 6 other 70 toons...why because warlocks get NO love... how many do you have in your guild?  1 at most 2, is that enough... there are commonly 3 of each other class.

What kind of love are you looking for?  We dps like animals, if you spec for it you can have some of the most useful utility in the game(Propogations/Volatility) and you can still top the parse specced either way.  People don't play Warlocks because they aren't willing to put in the time/effort to fully understand the class and master it.

Seriously... SOE had NO idea what to do with the class... we can NOT be balanced... warlocks are AoE... but I out parse wizards on single target epics?

I fail to see your complaint.  We get no love, yet you can out parse the single target dps king.

your thoughts?

Manaburn, Evac, Lifeburn, FD, COH...Warlock utility?

Again, look at the utility of Volatility and Propogations, and Vacious is pretty sweet for a mage group.  We are the DPS kings in AE, we have some of the best De-hate abilities in game that are not straight transfers.  What good is evac?  Sure manaburn is cool, but did you want to be the exact same as a wizard?  The bulk of a Warlock's damage output is based on DoTs, which means you need to sustain your mana to keep them running at all times.  One manaburn doesn't even come close to what you can do over the duration of a named Epic fight.

Another question,....why should a swash who is doing almost or more DPS than a warlock get hate dump to MT? [I cannot control my vocabulary]?

Range, plain and simple.  I see Swashies crank out killer dps, and i watch them roll over and die when the AEs start.  They cannot sit there for the duration of a fight and crank out constant DPS like we can.  It is all based on each particular encounter, where we can do the same dps no matter what mob we are fighting.

 People who sit around and [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moan about this class but ask for no action are USELESS! Why even post a topic if your not going to the root of the problem.

The people who really [Removed for Content] and moan about Warlocks on this forum are the ones who don't know enough about the class to make a legitimate suggestion for improvement.  Read all the old posts, its "why don't we get this, its not fair, i want to be able to top the parse, never pull aggro, CoH/evac/deathmarch, heal, feign death, etc."  Those that truly understand the capabilities of the Warlock don't ask for changes because they understand how much potential the class has.  I can think of a dozen Wizards who are now Warlocks, but i cannot think of a single Warlock who was good at his class that is now a Wizard, that should tell you something.

And Rift... dont even get me started...what a hose job.

To each his own, i'd rather be able to hit 12 targets at 15 meters as the "king" of AE DPS than be able to hit 3 targets at 7.  Fusion is great against 1-3 targets, give us 8 and we leave Fusion in the dust.

I thought to myself back in the day... there is a whole crew of people over at SOE working to make the game better...now I'm starting to think there is like one guy to reboot ALL the servers and a handful of others including the janitor to improve content and balance/fix broken classes.

Mocking the development team is not how you get changes made, try something constructive rather than a whine thread and see what happens.  I've sat on Test servers with several developers, tested/reported problems, and watched as they fixed them on the spot.  There aren't too many game companies out there with that kind of dedication.  Sure, they don't read the forums and change every little thing people complain about, but this game would be pretty bad off if they did, and i think most would agree with that.

NOW... here is the sad fact, $$$. SOE carse just enough to please the popular classes to make $$$.

Just like the ranger, brigand, swashbuckler nerfs over the past couple updates.  The three most played classes all got their damage output significantly reduced over the past 2 live updates, so your argument is flawed right there.

 

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Old 07-19-2007, 01:32 PM   #3
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Gromann wrote:
N2deep wrote:
People who sit around and [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moan about this class but ask for no action are USELESS! Why even post a topic if your not going to the root of the problem.

The people who really [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moan about Warlocks on this forum are the ones who don't know enough about the class to make a legitimate suggestion for improvement.  Read all the old posts, its "why don't we get this, its not fair, i want to be able to top the parse, never pull aggro, CoH/evac/deathmarch, heal, feign death, etc."  Those that truly understand the capabilities of the Warlock don't ask for changes because they understand how much potential the class has.  I can think of a dozen Wizards who are now Warlocks, but i cannot think of a single Warlock who was good at his class that is now a Wizard, that should tell you something.

well said gromann, but this is the part that annoys me , we can raid for years to learn to maximise dps etc yet a scout could sit on the back of a mob that has no ae and do as much dps without aggro. and comp;laints saying we need even 10% aggro transfer would make scouts complain they need 50% coz now were too uber lol.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:46 PM   #4
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i would never consider myself a good warlock atm , but i wont complain we are totaly broken when people who can play the class very well do it geatly so we cant be broken..unless we are meant to be T0 dps that MUST top the parse every fight...(starts dreaming...)
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:15 PM   #5
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This thread has gotten itself off to a bad start and a couple of the posts from it are no longer with us.  Let's be constructive and respectful of each other's opinions please.  You are welcome to disagree with each other, but do not allow your disagreement to turn to personal attacks, insults, or namecalling.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:25 PM   #6
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Holy slippery spider sheet batman, i didn't think a mod knew this board existed.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:33 PM   #7
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I'll say I've been doing different equipment and spell chain experiments the last couple weeks with a goal of 2k+ dps and NO external aggro mods.  So far I'm slowly becoming a believer.  You don't have to be a fanboi to want to draw a line between "give me everything without working for it", and those really trying to get to the heart of what the class does and it's capabilities.  I still parse "crappy" without some form of speed but that aside I'm really seeing the value of different gear set ups for different occasions exactly like my spell chain cycles.  A coordinated MA and tank combo can be key for us as well, if they arn't then volunteer to be an MA.  A smart aggro dumper is essential as well. I pushed 3k+ in FTH other night on the the 2 big ae pulls in a row, no aggro mod and only coercer on the tank (guardian 900-1.5k dps).  I was very amazed at the first result of my experiment.  The first one I didn't touch aggro the whole fight the second I pulled it but slipped it fast and never got it back... I think there is more un-explored potential.  I'm hoping to have solid numbers and results to post up on EQ2BattleMage when I've got a larger number base to back it up. 
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:38 PM   #8
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I don't think we've been overlooked.  I could see how someone who hasn't been playing the class all that long, and comes to this board, might get that impression, though. In fact we've gotten quite a bit of attention over the years.  I can hardly list all the changes that have happened, but a good place to look is in the archive of game updates that's posted in the announcements forum.  Look for class sorcerer and warlock changes - there have been a lot of them.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:38 PM   #9
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honestly the only thing that really irks me is how scouts can go absolutely balls out DPS and never worry about aggro, all while  wearing chain and adding a helluva lot of utility.  a warlock casts rift and holds his breath that he won't kiss the floor in the next 2 seconds.  meh, I guess thats why theres so many [I cannot control my vocabulary] scouts and so few warlocks.  i take our class disadvantage as character flaw and it makes it easier to get into raid guilds (just look at Mistmoore's guilds a lot of them want more Warlocks) meanwhile swashbucklers/rangers are like bunnies and theres LOTS of competition for those raid slots.  EDIT: also as you can see from my sig I think the aggro problems from our insane AOE damage requires us to really strategize and plan our spell rotation and pay attention to our surroundings, especially how well the tank is doing and the position of the mobs we're about to blow up.  Compare that to any scout who pretty much spams thier CAs with reckless abandon the whole raid and it's clear which class is funner to play for someone looking for an actual challenge.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:20 PM   #10
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The only complaint I can have where im standing at 38 half way to 39 Warlock as it feels like all the really fun stuff is in the upper 40s and onward hehe.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:39 PM   #11
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yh, fun stuff is really 50+ imo , apocalypse , rift , null caress and more. btw gromman , enlighten me with how u parse that high? SMILEY i only have 2 bits of damage proc kit atm 2 -3( if i use skywatcher robe) deaggro and 1 - 2 power procs(if i use nest robe) , i beleive its more to do with my casting order/knowledge of the class atm, for why i can only parse 1k singles 1-1.5k zw and encounter...depends on mobs - 3 + normally 3k min, int wis speced atm ...sorry for being off  topic lol
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:59 PM   #12
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I am fully mastered (other than blasted Dark Infestation), but have mostly legendary gear and just an EoF Fabled Hat that I bought the loot rights to.  My warlock was created in May and I hit level 70 a week or so ago. I have 100 AA's - STR/AGI - Hastenings/Explosive - My crit is currently 23% self-buffed, and have quite a few adornments.  I'm working on MoA which would bring me up to 25%. I have the standard 3 pieces of proc gear (Grizzfazzle/Invoker Earring/BCG) If I can get 1-2 more pieces of proc gear I'll drop explosives more than likely and go propagations. In a junk group (no synergism/no troub - no nothing basically) - i'll parse around 1300 on single target.  I can stretch it to 1600 if crit a lot and it goes perfectly.  It can dip below if I get resisted or if Netherous Realm/Corrupt Gift are not up and or the mob dies right at the end of a large nuke cast. When I'm in a group with a troub and have synergism (and TC, dont get me started how awesome that would be, haven't gotten it yet in a raid), i'm up around 1800-1900 on single targets.  I haven't broken 2000 yet though.  I will almost ALWAYS win single targets against any other non-lifeburning/manaburning caster.  Rangers and Assassins are usually at least 500-800 dps higher than me though, but they've been around a while with great gear and they've always done better on single targets. On multi-mob trash (at least 2) I can hit 1900 in a bad group and about 2500 in a good group.  Rarely will I lose a parse to 3 ore more mobs unless again, someone is lifeburning/manaburning.  If the group is really larger I'll be 3000-4000 assuming I don't die. Remember, this is with otherwise junky gear - nothing compared to a warlock who has been raiding since KoS. I love being the underdog, not being expected to win anything, and to come in and shine.   *That* is what keeps me interested in the game.
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:05 PM   #13
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miliskel wrote:
btw gromman , enlighten me with how u parse that high? SMILEY i only have 2 bits of damage proc kit atm 2 -3( if i use skywatcher robe) deaggro and 1 - 2 power procs(if i use nest robe) , i beleive its more to do with my casting order/knowledge of the class atm, for why i can only parse 1k singles 1-1.5k zw and encounter...depends on mobs - 3 + normally 3k min, int wis speced atm ...sorry for being off  topic lol
With the exception of gloves and cuffs, every single piece of gear i raid with has either a proc, + spell damage, or clicky on it.  That helps a lot, especially combined with Propagations.   My group setup is usually Fury, Wizard, Warlock, Conj, Trouby, Illu.  I run with Time Compression most of the time, and i've been raiding with the same MT for over a year now so i know his threshold and exactly how hard i can push it.  Best fight parse was 7.2k on the 8 heroics in Lyceum, and i can break 5k regularly on the 4 Epic vampire pulls in FTH, just to throw it into perspective. Even at that, i figure out a new way to improve every couple of raids.  Thats what this class is about, always finding a way to improve.  When i started raiding T6 zones and Labs(my first toon was pvp, started last Feb.) I was lucky to parse 1k and i never left a raid zone with gear on my back.  Keep at it, good dps and low repair bills come with time and practice.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:58 PM   #14
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hehe yeah I noticed today that I have an easier time taking down heroic greens compared solo blues lol...
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:28 AM   #15
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To the op: sorry you did not know that posting such complaints here is a big no no in this forum. You will always get the: You dont know how to play your class pwnt-answer. Now you know SMILEY

Personally: even if I do pretty good in my casual raiding environment I agree that some things are so off-base and could use dev attention. Takes a hell of a lot more work both from the one playing the lock and from the entire raid team figuring out and supplying all the babysitters needed for the lock - compare to other classes who do amazing dps, and in some cases also have amazing utility to bring to the raid. Yes all classes need help from others, but locks need the most in order to hardly dominate (raiding with slackers dont count). Ive learnt that this is exactly what many like about the class: gives them a feeling that they are skilled at something...teehehe.

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