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Old 02-03-2005, 11:38 AM   #1
Merrygr

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Having problems prioritizing where to spend rares on lvl 30-39 spells. If I had been 32 I would say the instant heal, but getting closer to 40 that one might not have all that much life left in it?
 
If no spells are adepts and you were at lvl 39 in what order would you get adept 3 spells for lvl 30-39.
 
Listing the spells makes me think that I should eather pick the direct heal or a nuke for the fun factor only.
 
32.4 - Spiritual Healing - Good candidate?
 
35 - Grim Lethargy - Candidate, but what changes on a spell like this? Resists only?
38 - Howling Haze - Would this help?
39 - Mourning Soul - Would this help?
 
32 - Anger of the Ancients - Damage is not my primary role, but at least this one is AE
33 - Touch of the Grey - Damage is not my primary role
38.6 - Icy Flames - Damage is not my primary role
39.6 - Pox Damage is not my primary role
 
35.6- Fallacy - I'm still not convinced of the usefullness of stat debuffs
 
31 - Runic Shield  - I don't think bufs are the best place
32.8 - Spirit of the Rhino - I don't think bufs are the best place
34 - Ursine Oracle - I don't think bufs are the best place
 
30 - Umbral Fortitude - I don't think bufs are the best place
30.6 - Omen - No way no how!!!!
37 - Aqueous Spirit - too funny
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:19 PM   #2
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Ward->Heals->Debufs->Dots
 
Debufs are a bit to be proven what the upgrade really does so you take your chances there.  If you have power to add damage then the dots are the way to go so upgrading them is better than the direct damage spells.  I guess a lot depends on if you can get an Adept 1 for the spell and save the rare for something else.
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Old 02-03-2005, 04:28 PM   #3
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Aaldaaf wrote:
Ward->Heals->Debufs->Dots
 
Debufs are a bit to be proven what the upgrade really does so you take your chances there.  If you have power to add damage then the dots are the way to go so upgrading them is better than the direct damage spells.  I guess a lot depends on if you can get an Adept 1 for the spell and save the rare for something else.


That is basically my thinking too. Although I'm not entirely convinced where the debuffs land in this. What is the benefit of upgrading them?

My curret problem is that there is no ward in the lvl 30-39 range, so that is out. The heal is lvl 32 so it might be  obsolete soon? If I will live with the heal for a long time,  then it is obvioulsy there it should go.

Very much leaning towards the heal as that is what I'm there for.

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Old 02-03-2005, 07:03 PM   #4
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Definitely the heal, no freakin' question.
 
The next instant heal you get will be the upgrade of the line that starts with Totemic Aid.  That's not a "big" heal since it has the Noxious cure component to go with it.  Your next "big" heal doesn't show up until you are nearly to L47.
 
Remember, most Priests have hotbars with their 2 most effective "big" heals . . . so at L50 you'll still have Spiritual Healing (the L32 big heal) on your hotbar.  That's pretty scaleable in my book.
 
Consider, my "heal" bar looks like this at L35:
 
 
1 - Minor Healing (for HO purposes) L<10
2 - Totemic Aid L<20
3 - Spiritual Replenishment L29.6
4 - Healing Ritual L<20
5 - Spiritual Healing L32
6 - Breath of Spirits L<20
7 - Spiritist's Salve L25
8 - Wards of Shadow L28
9 - Wakinya's Skin of Spirits Training, just went green at 35
0 - Ancestral Ward L26
 
 
As you can see, just because a spell is old, doesn't mean you don't use it.  If I could upgrade Spiritual Healing to Adept 3, I'd do it in a heartbeat knowing that I'd still be using that spell at L50.  For that matter if Healing Ritual could be Adept 3 for less than 10g, I'd do that too knowing that I'll be nearly L47 before that one leaves my hotbar.  For that matter, it may not even go away then, as I'd consider moving it to slot 1 as my HO heal.
 
 
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:42 PM   #5
Merrygr

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Doh, as I never pay much attention to future spells I had no idea I wasn't about to get a new upgrade anytime soon. Might be one when I get a green cross in the future, but I'm now convinced that ward->heal->something is the order to do adepts pretty much regardless of what is in store for the future. This applies to the tier you are in. So if there is a wad in the tier it goes first. If not the best heal in the tier gets it. After that it is likely a fluff (as in damage spell) or possibly a debuff if I only knew what the upgrade would do.
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:42 PM   #6
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A week or so ago I had planed to upgrade my heal to adept III, and then right before I was about to pay some serious coin for it I lvled and the final insta heal we get is on the same timer.  With that said keep in mind that you will out grow your second insta heal in your mid 40's.
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Old 02-03-2005, 09:50 PM   #7
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Spiritual Healing.  No doubt about it.
 
 
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:13 PM   #8
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Given the fact that Wards don't currently take AC mitigation into account, I'd rate direct heals higher than Wards on the Ad3 list.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:45 PM   #9
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honestly,
you have to look at future upgrades first. because when your talking spells that are 35+ some of them get no more upgrade.
Look at your future spells and think of your self as lvl 50 and ask.
 
Do i have any heals on my hotbars that are 35 or less...no
Do I have buffs that are 35 are less...no
 
look how far into 30's you are
how long to you plan on staying there...are you the type that lvl's fast and won't be there more than a couple wks?
 
yeah, for the most part the heal is a great spell to upgrade.
but you will still use that slow at 50, even though some ppl "believe" it doesn't change anything but the resist there is no data that i've seen to prove this..and even so...when your raiding and the mob has major resist and is hitting for 4k the sooner you land slow the better.
 
Oracle...used all the time...will use till high 40's....can't go wrong with that
 
Pox/Icy flames..yeah your main goal isn't damage...but these spells that don't get upgraded
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:45 PM   #10
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Through the 40s I still cast ward 5 times for every direct heal, even with guardian tanks.  Was more like 10 times per heal with a monk.  Luckly your highest ward is an easy Adept 1 to find but would love to get a Master.  I don't have the list in front of me but it seems our last two direct heals end up on the same timer, or at least did when I tried them.  I ended up with Healing Ritual as my second direct heal even though it's weak.
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Old 02-04-2005, 12:31 AM   #11
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Someone needs to test that again now.  Yes, when they added all the training shiz and borked up all the timers many things wound up on one timer. 
 
If Spiritual Healing and Enlightened Healing are on the same timer now, then of course you wouldn't want both on the hotbar.  I might even go so far as to say that if 2 direct heals are linked it should be /bug 'ed.
 
It was however my understanding that the only things that were supposed to be linked were Training upgrades to the spell they replace.
 
Aald should begin putting a disclaimer on his posts as well.  He is one of the ONLY people who find Wards working for them.  Most people find Wards to be an afterthought.

Message Edited by Banditman on 02-03-2005 02:33 PM

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Old 02-04-2005, 03:43 AM   #12
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I know you said upgrading 30-39 spells, but my opinion is if you don't have adepIII for wards then get that first with the cash. I just recently got adpetIII ancestral ward ( I already had adeptIII spectral) and the difference is very noticeable. I think I went from a weak healer to a very good healer with this upgrade.
 
I would only upgrade my DoT's if I had a lot of cash left over, we aren't dps and would only improve ourselves a little bit for all that cash. As said before debuffs seems to only effect the level we can affect so thats a questionable upgrade. The heal upgrade might be nice but Wards cost less mana and heal for more.
 
If you already had adeptIII wards I would probably save the cash and get upgardes for 42 ward.
 
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Old 02-04-2005, 08:34 PM   #13
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Get spiritual healing, no question.  You'll get many levels of use out of this spell, many.  I have created an adept 3 version of this myself and next time I go out adventuring I plan to scribe it (if I haven't sold it).  I will post results here next week, but if it's anything like the upgrade to my healing ritual (30% upgrade) then there is no question to upgrade this spell first for lvl 30-39. 
As long as you already have ancestral ward adept 3 that is. 
 
Next I would upgrade your DoT's, they are a major damage upgrade (about 30% increase for me with Cold Fire at least) and if you do any soloing it makes life much easier!   I usually stay away from the debuff and buff adept 3's and try to find adept 1.  In my experience whenever I've spent the cash to upgrade my buffs I have been very disappointed so I try and get the training buffs/debuffs which are adept 2 quality or find the adept 1.
 
just my thoughts, but i'll try to post some data on spiritual healing next week
 
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:33 PM   #14
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As a general principles discussion I would think wards, as they are more efficient and draw less aggro than direct heals.  If the ward works better, then you won't even need to cast that direct heal as often. 
 
Second I think debuffs, because you don't have to worry about wards or heals or buffs being resisted.  Debuffs are key and people are saying that upgraded debuffs stick more often.  This makes sense because as I understand it Adept3 is as if you were 3 levels higher than Apprentice3.
 
Third, don't ignore buffs.  You are keeping up four buffs at once plus bear form.  You just aren't going to be able to notice the effect compared to anything that happens immediately like a heal or DoT, that doesn't mean it isn't there.  In fact, your buff is there every minute of every battle solo or group, surprised or not, out of power or not, fighting or running away.  They are also there when you are the secondary healer and using no wards and not many direct heals. 
You are giving all six members of your group better strength, health, AC, resistances, stamina, etceterea to survive and defeat the mob.  In your case, the last of these to be retired would be Spirit of the Rhino, not replaced until level 46.4.  Any buffs taken in the 50's would of course never be retired.
 
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:41 AM   #15
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Are Enlightened Healing and Spiritual Healing on the same timer?I am running out of hotbar space... not sure how people manage to keep them all up at the same time.For the 30's...I would say go with SH adept 3. I have an adept 3 and I am constantly getting compliments from other healers about how big my heals are... Also we do not get Enlightened Healing until 46.I upgraded Howling Haze, Grim Lethargy and Mourning soul to adept 3. I'm not sure really how well that worked, but I hope it maybe lasts longer or slows for more or gets resisted less. I wish I could see the advantages for upgrading it. If I was short on adepts, I'd probably skip them. I never upgraded Fallacy or Cry of the Ancients, never got around to it. I upgraded Prophetic Guard to adept 3. That was a waste. Runic Shield gave about 40 more AC at adept 3 if I am remembering correctly.I upgraded Pox and Icey Flames to adept 3 because we never get a repeat of them in the 40's. They are our last dots until the next expansion.My plans for the 40's... I only have 3 rubies atm, but my plans are:Single Target 41 ward, Group 42 ward, Small Heal at 42.Then when I get more rubies/rhodium:Big Heal at 46, Oberon 50, Dreadful Lethargy, then maybe group heal. I rarely use the group heals you see. I don't know if others do. I maybe have used it once in the past week. The long casting time, the poor mana to health conversion, and the lack of a need to heal more than 2 people at once really makes it impratical for me.
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Old 02-08-2005, 02:37 AM   #16
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J3RD wrote:
Get spiritual healing, no question.  You'll get many levels of use out of this spell, many.  I have created an adept 3 version of this myself and next time I go out adventuring I plan to scribe it (if I haven't sold it).  I will post results here next week, but if it's anything like the upgrade to my healing ritual (30% upgrade) then there is no question to upgrade this spell first for lvl 30-39. 
 


This data is inaccurate.
 
Upon reading this, I actively sought out an upgrade to Healing Ritual to go from Adept 1 to Adept 3.  This spell is gray to me at the moment and I'm using it as my backup "big" heal.  I had maxed it out at 444 HP of healing while at Adept 1.  In upgrading to Adept 3, my increase was a modest 15% increase in heal capacity, moving to 512 HP of healing with a very minor decrease in mana cost (like 7 mana).
 
I still think it was worth it to me, at 15 gold, but not the no-brainer that 30% was.  However, consider the real numbers before you spend your money.  Adept 1 to Adept 3 appears to be on the order of 15% increase with a direct heal.
 
At L35, the ability to infuse a tank with over 1000 HP in less than 5 seconds is pretty dang good though, and due to the problems with Wards, necessary more often than I like to say.
 
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:57 PM   #17
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Upgarding SH took me from a 557 to 670 hp heal. Numbers are from memory, but it was something like that. It also cost a few points of power less than before.
The uppgrade was from app 4 to adept 3. All this at lvl 37.
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Old 02-08-2005, 10:32 PM   #18
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Merrygrin wrote:
Upgarding SH took me from a 557 to 670 hp heal. Numbers are from memory, but it was something like that. It also cost a few points of power less than before.
The uppgrade was from app 4 to adept 3. All this at lvl 37.



Just to add a possibly useful comparison, my Adept I SH heals 605 at lvl 37.

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Old 02-09-2005, 08:44 AM   #19
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Merrygrin wrote:
Upgarding SH took me from a 557 to 670 hp heal. Numbers are from memory, but it was something like that. It also cost a few points of power less than before.
The uppgrade was from app 4 to adept 3. All this at lvl 37.

Every single Adept 3 that I've seen (and I have 10+ between my toons) costs more power than an Adept 1 version. You most likely were examine the scroll, which always lists the App1 power cost.All spells that I've seen so far in addition to the added effects, cost more power. Additionally, they tend to be only slightly more mana efficient. For the most part, the ratio stays somewhat similar (improving slightly I admit), but you get more healing or damage per second, just not necessarily per power.
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Old 02-09-2005, 12:32 PM   #20
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Rennyn wrote:


Merrygrin wrote:
Upgarding SH took me from a 557 to 670 hp heal. Numbers are from memory, but it was something like that. It also cost a few points of power less than before.
The uppgrade was from app 4 to adept 3. All this at lvl 37.





Every single Adept 3 that I've seen (and I have 10+ between my toons) costs more power than an Adept 1 version. You most likely were examine the scroll, which always lists the App1 power cost.

All spells that I've seen so far in addition to the added effects, cost more power. Additionally, they tend to be only slightly more mana efficient. For the most part, the ratio stays somewhat similar (improving slightly I admit), but you get more healing or damage per second, just not necessarily per power.

Yes, i was very surprised by that as it has always been more expensive for me too. You are likely correct. I probably examined the spell icon for the app 4 and the scroll for the adept 3.


 

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Old 02-09-2005, 06:55 PM   #21
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For soloer like me I'd upgrade ward->direct heal->dots->ursine

Message Edited by Chanliang on 02-09-2005 05:57 AM

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Old 02-10-2005, 01:30 AM   #22
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Wards are less mana efficient than direct heals.  Sorry.  SMILEY
 
There's another thread here where someone has broken down the exact numbers, but Wards are about equal to a direct heal in HP Healed per Mana spent.
 
And remember, direct heals get to take advantage of a tank's armor mitigation, Wards don't.
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:26 AM   #23
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Very true regarding wards.. you'll get far more out of the direct heals.

Message Edited by Rennyn on 02-09-2005 03:26 PM

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Old 02-11-2005, 09:43 PM   #24
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Rennyn wrote:


Merrygrin wrote:
Upgarding SH took me from a 557 to 670 hp heal. Numbers are from memory, but it was something like that. It also cost a few points of power less than before.
The uppgrade was from app 4 to adept 3. All this at lvl 37.





Every single Adept 3 that I've seen (and I have 10+ between my toons) costs more power than an Adept 1 version. You most likely were examine the scroll, which always lists the App1 power cost.

All spells that I've seen so far in addition to the added effects, cost more power. Additionally, they tend to be only slightly more mana efficient. For the most part, the ratio stays somewhat similar (improving slightly I admit), but you get more healing or damage per second, just not necessarily per power.

In that case, buffs are an even better candidate for an Adept 3, since the amount of power needed to cast them is irrelevant.
 
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:41 PM   #25
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The problem with buffs is that the return on upgrade is so small.  The difference between an Adept 1 buff and an Adept 3 buff is so small that it doesn't justify the cost involved.
 
Further, buffs are also one of those things that are upgraded pretty regularly and the outdated one is not used.  So, while you will no longer use Spirit of the Bull once you get Rhino, you will continue to use Healing Ritual for quite some time, even after you get Spiritual Healing.

Message Edited by Banditman on 02-11-2005 12:42 PM

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