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Old 12-18-2011, 03:58 PM   #1
Bauglir

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Been doing some DOV dungeon content during the last few weeks.  My stats:  Fully mastered spells, 200 AA, 112 CM, 183 CC, 100 CB.  Yes I know I need a lot of work but.. before you bash please continue reading.

I played with several groups in several dungeons, they all had similar gear and stats, plus or minus about 50 AA from me.

I'm using fire pet, and using AoEs when possible and allowed, using my damage spells in a rotation that makes sense for cooldowns.

My findings are that I was always outdamaged by fighter and scout dps.

What might I be doing wrong?  I was either almost even with the wizard in the group, just above, or below them.  Both of us were being outdamaged by the melee.

Any suggestions?

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Old 12-18-2011, 04:39 PM   #2
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Honestly? It could be almost anything.

Low AAs for sure.

Group set up.

Gear of those melee fighters.

With the stats you posted, my mystic would probably do double your parse and not lose anyone in the group.

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Old 12-18-2011, 07:17 PM   #3
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Karimonster wrote:

Honestly? It could be almost anything.

Low AAs for sure.

Group set up.

Gear of those melee fighters.

With the stats you posted, my mystic would probably do double your parse and not lose anyone in the group.

Well, I suspect its not just the above items that are helping me place so low on the damage meters.  In about 2 weeks I should be able to revisit this and test it, at current rate of AA accumulation I should be nearly at 300 by then and have somewhat better armor and adornments.

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Old 12-20-2011, 12:18 PM   #4
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what is your group make-up? You're basically on an island without some proper buffs that benefit your class from a Troubador and Illusionist. And at 200 AA as you realize, you still have a ways to go with self-improvement

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Old 12-21-2011, 01:53 PM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

what is your group make-up? You're basically on an island without some proper buffs that benefit your class from a Troubador and Illusionist. And at 200 AA as you realize, you still have a ways to go with self-improvement

I checked the AA skills.. honestly.. not much more to select thats going to matter.  Just 2 more skills and some base damage skill buff..

I was in a group last night, The Assasin and SK were doing 5 times my DPS, I inspected.. both were in similar gear (Rygorr with a few DoV fabled items and similar adornments).  The SK had 263 AA the Assasin had 220 AA, I'm at 215 aa now.

As for CC we all were around 200.

So.. no its not an AA thing... hmm...

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Old 12-21-2011, 02:03 PM   #6
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Bauglir wrote:

I checked the AA skills.. honestly.. not much more to select thats going to matter.  Just 2 more skills and some base damage skill buff..

I was in a group last night, The Assasin and SK were doing 5 times my DPS, I inspected.. both were in similar gear (Rygorr with a few DoV fabled items and similar adornments).  The SK had 263 AA the Assasin had 220 AA, I'm at 215 aa now.

Then you are flat out doing it wrong if they are doing 5x your damage. If you are talking about 3-5 sec fights maybe, if you are talking about named encounters that are lasting a little longer you are just bad and need to do a lot of work on some training dummies, because regardless of what you think about your casting order and cooldown times, you are wrong.

As for CC we all were around 200.

So.. no its not an AA thing... hmm... 

So you ask for help, don't know what it is but do know what it isn't? lol.

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Old 12-21-2011, 06:07 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

Bauglir wrote:

I checked the AA skills.. honestly.. not much more to select thats going to matter.  Just 2 more skills and some base damage skill buff..

I was in a group last night, The Assasin and SK were doing 5 times my DPS, I inspected.. both were in similar gear (Rygorr with a few DoV fabled items and similar adornments).  The SK had 263 AA the Assasin had 220 AA, I'm at 215 aa now.

Then you are flat out doing it wrong if they are doing 5x your damage. If you are talking about 3-5 sec fights maybe, if you are talking about named encounters that are lasting a little longer you are just bad and need to do a lot of work on some training dummies, because regardless of what you think about your casting order and cooldown times, you are wrong.

As for CC we all were around 200.

So.. no its not an AA thing... hmm... 

So you ask for help, don't know what it is but do know what it isn't? lol.

Let me ask this another way, and maybe hostile replies like the one above won't happen.. somehow I doubt this.

What is the best rotation for group fights..

This is what I am doing:  Send fire pet, CB, FA, (AOEs if applicable, earthquake, shattered earth, AA AOE..), Ele Blast, little pet spells (if its a long fight).

Any suggestions..

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Old 12-21-2011, 06:15 PM   #8
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The reply wasn't hostile, you still have not addressed questions asked by others, such as your group makeup which can make a huge difference. It is not going to make a 5x more difference. You apparently do't like to be told to go work on some training dummies, and that is your choice to do or not but you can gain a lot from doing it. 

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Old 12-21-2011, 10:37 PM   #9
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group makeup:

pally

Sk

Assasin

Templar

Illusionist

Conj (me)

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Old 12-21-2011, 11:25 PM   #10
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from a lowly Conjy alt: Pre-cast your pet temps like Blazing Avatar and Elemental Unity so they are running when the fight starts. Try and time EB to Illy's Time Warp. I cast CB just about every other spell it refreshes so fast, but I'm not sure if that's a good strat or not.

There is also a lot of DPS to be gained in the Heroic Tree that at 200 AA you've barely scratched

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Old 12-22-2011, 05:37 PM   #11
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Things that matter for your DPS are:

1. Spell Level (Always masters of course)

2. Gear

3. Cast order

4. AA points

5. Group makeup and the buffs they grant you.

6. High Crit. Bonus and Crit. Chance, also High Intelligence and potency.

7. Your adornments can make a huge difference as well.

All of these will help you. The one thing you can contantly practice is your cast order. Also, try and time your spells for the right moments if possible. Use Heroic Opprtunities, these will grant a little more DPS. Get this down and you'll be a long way to getting good DPS. There are times I get out parsed by a Tank or a scout, not often anymore but it happens. I don't have the top end gear but I have pretty decent stuff and I definately hold my own.

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Old 12-22-2011, 05:43 PM   #12
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When casting a spell during time warp you also want to cast it before time warp is active and have it land as close to time warp becoming active (but AFTER it is active obviously) as possible.

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Old 12-28-2011, 07:53 AM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

When casting a spell during time warp you also want to cast it before time warp is active and have it land as close to time warp becoming active (but AFTER it is active obviously) as possible.

I think that is wrong. From my testing it seems to work the way, that you have to start the cast, while the spell is active.

So you can't pre-cast it but you can finish a cast after it has run out and still get the bonus as long as you startet it during the duration. So first get the fast spells through and at the end something slow like BA.

But that are fine adjustments. If other DDs are doing 5 times your damage, your Casting is wrong (or they are far ahead of you with gear and AA).With little pet spells, did you mean swarm pets? Never cast them, all 3 shouldn't even be on your casting bar.

Unless they are better supported or better equipped you should be able to hold your own against other dd classes. On single target fights assas may have a little advantage, warlocks on encounter ae. Only open AE fights are a little difficult. And I'm talking here about 10-20% and not 500%.

Check out the casting order generator thread at eq2flames.

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Old 12-28-2011, 03:03 PM   #14
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Mythical?  That's a very sizeable DPS adjustment.

The general point remains the same here.  If all else is equal, and you are getting embarrased by other DPSers, you are doing something wrong, and the information you have shared here is not nearly adequate for an accurate diagnosis of the problem.

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Old 12-28-2011, 08:54 PM   #15
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Raid Conj vs. Raid Scout

Conj = carefully planning out spell cast order and working with Illusionist Time Warp to maximize DPS, always casting, buffing pet to keep dps up.

Scouts = Auto attack and do just about the same DPS if not more than any mage working their rear off to DPS.

I'm basing my knowledge of scouts off of what I've been told by the many raiding scouts I know.

thats my experience.

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Old 12-28-2011, 09:33 PM   #16
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Yes.. I have my ER

As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing...  Conj = gimped

While I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand

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Old 12-29-2011, 07:22 AM   #17
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Nah, scouts too have to work for their damage. Their auto attack maybe has a greater percentage of their damage than what our pet would have if we only press pet attack, but they still have to work for their damage. A lazy scout will do half of your damage at best if you know what you are doing. I'm sure there are encounters that are harder for them as they are for us and vice versa. And conji is a fantastic class. I'm often topping the parse even without Sol Ro.

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Old 12-29-2011, 10:21 AM   #18
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Mohee wrote:

Raid Conj vs. Raid Scout

Conj = carefully planning out spell cast order and working with Illusionist Time Warp to maximize DPS, always casting, buffing pet to keep dps up.

Scouts = Auto attack and do just about the same DPS if not more than any mage working their rear off to DPS.

I'm basing my knowledge of scouts off of what I've been told by the many raiding scouts I know.

thats my experience.

O.o  If that's all it takes to DPS on a scout then why aren't there more of them?  It take planning and buffs just the same on a scout that it does on a mage.  Yes, a lot of scouts' damage comes from autoattack but if you interrupt it, that's dps lost, if you hit big attacks before debuffs, that's dps lost, if you don't time you're temp buffs, that's dps lost.  Just because 30-50% is auto attack doesn't mean it's easymode dps.

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Old 12-29-2011, 10:59 AM   #19
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Bauglir wrote:

As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing...  Conj = gimped

While I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand

You.  Are.  Doing.  It.  Wrong.

I am the top DPSer in my raid.  It includes Necromancers, Assassins, Brigands, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks . . . doesn't matter.  There is no gear difference, we all have access to the same level of gear.  I may not win every single parse, but when you go back and look at the zone as a whole, it is *exceedingly* rare for me to not be first.

Yes, when I do heroic stuff, it's more challenging.  Every group doesn't necessarily have the ideal composition for a Conjuror, but under no circumstances am I being embarrased by any other DPS player.  I am certainly not "gimped" by any stretch of the imagination.

It is very frustrating when players look at every possibility for failure besides the one in the mirror.

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Old 12-30-2011, 02:17 AM   #20
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Banditman wrote:

Bauglir wrote:

As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing...  Conj = gimped

While I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand

You.  Are.  Doing.  It.  Wrong.

I am the top DPSer in my raid.  It includes Necromancers, Assassins, Brigands, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks . . . doesn't matter.  There is no gear difference, we all have access to the same level of gear.  I may not win every single parse, but when you go back and look at the zone as a whole, it is *exceedingly* rare for me to not be first.

Yes, when I do heroic stuff, it's more challenging.  Every group doesn't necessarily have the ideal composition for a Conjuror, but under no circumstances am I being embarrased by any other DPS player.  I am certainly not "gimped" by any stretch of the imagination.

It is very frustrating when players look at every possibility for failure besides the one in the mirror

Actually I'm a decent player, I don't expect you to believe me and I'm not going to share my character name and server.  The problem is that for the content I am working on which is low end 6 man DoV dungeons the conj class simply won't parse well.  Scouts and melee will have the best opprotunity to dps.

I think you and your raid pals have top gear and that gear really does define the conj class, and all mage classes.  I also think your working your butt off to be a DPS contender.  You are working far harder then scouts.  You are workign far harder then the beastloards will be. 

Maybe you have a scout, maybe you don't.  It does not matter.

Your an elitiest, nothing wrong with that.  However your group type, your group venue, and your familairty level with your group members are different.  Your playing a different game.  A game where you actually will have "perfectly balanced" groups, a game where you will be raiding and thus the mobs don't die as fast so you can start up your rotation and make it work.

I bet if you found a pug of rygorr equiped people you didn't know you would end up out-parced by a scout or a damage Sk.

People like you are the majority of the 90 DOV content runners, but the game is almost dead, in part because of people like you.  The culture you help sustain is simply not going to welcome people into this game.  You need new people, seriously you do.

You expect the few of us that have returned or are new to:  have 300+ AAs, buy overpriced raid leftovers, and to put up with your arrogance, in order to be suitable to group with you as a fill-in if someone dosen't show up for groups or raids.

I wonder what you will do when beastlords parse better on raids... oh wait you will PL one and play that more.

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Old 12-30-2011, 09:46 AM   #21
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In my guild raids i'm usually either #1, 2 or 3 in the parse. Fighting for top with a wizard and warlock. But a lot of that has to do with our Mage group set-up and all of us working together to increase eachothers dps and timing buffs to pull out amazing numbers. (Usually our mage group is Wiz, Conj, Warlock, Troub, Fury, Illusionist) Those classes all working together in harmony do amazing DPS =)

Now... when I get into regular DoV groups that don't have a Troub & Illy, my dps is quite different and a lot lower. But still pretty good. In most 1 group situations, most well geared scouts will out DPS me, some times by quite a bit.

And I apologize for anyone who thought I stated that scouts don't do anything but autoattack, I was simply stating that a lot of scouts have told me they can still pull off amazing DPS by mostly just auto-attacking with a few backstabs here and there. I dont play a scout so I don't know, it's just what i've been told by some very high DPS'ing scouts =P

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Old 12-30-2011, 09:17 PM   #22
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Bauglir wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Bauglir wrote:

As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing...  Conj = gimped

While I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand

You.  Are.  Doing.  It.  Wrong.

I am the top DPSer in my raid.  It includes Necromancers, Assassins, Brigands, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks . . . doesn't matter.  There is no gear difference, we all have access to the same level of gear.  I may not win every single parse, but when you go back and look at the zone as a whole, it is *exceedingly* rare for me to not be first.

Yes, when I do heroic stuff, it's more challenging.  Every group doesn't necessarily have the ideal composition for a Conjuror, but under no circumstances am I being embarrased by any other DPS player.  I am certainly not "gimped" by any stretch of the imagination.

It is very frustrating when players look at every possibility for failure besides the one in the mirror

Actually I'm a decent player, I don't expect you to believe me and I'm not going to share my character name and server.  The problem is that for the content I am working on which is low end 6 man DoV dungeons the conj class simply won't parse well.  Scouts and melee will have the best opprotunity to dps.

I think you and your raid pals have top gear and that gear really does define the conj class, and all mage classes.  I also think your working your butt off to be a DPS contender.  You are working far harder then scouts.  You are workign far harder then the beastloards will be. 

Maybe you have a scout, maybe you don't.  It does not matter.

Your an elitiest, nothing wrong with that.  However your group type, your group venue, and your familairty level with your group members are different.  Your playing a different game.  A game where you actually will have "perfectly balanced" groups, a game where you will be raiding and thus the mobs don't die as fast so you can start up your rotation and make it work.

I bet if you found a pug of rygorr equiped people you didn't know you would end up out-parced by a scout or a damage Sk.

People like you are the majority of the 90 DOV content runners, but the game is almost dead, in part because of people like you.  The culture you help sustain is simply not going to welcome people into this game.  You need new people, seriously you do.

You expect the few of us that have returned or are new to:  have 300+ AAs, buy overpriced raid leftovers, and to put up with your arrogance, in order to be suitable to group with you as a fill-in if someone dosen't show up for groups or raids.

I wonder what you will do when beastlords parse better on raids... oh wait you will PL one and play that more.

Is 100-150k parses in a 6 person group 'not parsing well'?  Because my Conj isn't at the top of the game (max AA with some EM x4 and x2 gear) and I rarely have trouble parsing excellently even without an illusionist and a troubador.  It's probably more like 80-120k if there's neither in the group but that's still more than respectable.

They're an amazing class and I rolled mine after seeing our guild's conjuror steamroll people on DPS.

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Old 12-31-2011, 04:14 AM   #23
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Exactly.

They aren't gimped.  They aren't even close to gimped.

Content is irrelevant.  Once again I state the caveat that GEAR BEING EQUAL this holds up.  If you are getting wtfpwnbbq'ed in any situation and the gear / aa / etc is equal . . .  You.  Are.  Doing.  It.  Wrong.

Yes, there are a few very special situations where Scouts can have the advantage, just as there are most definitely situations where the Conjuror has the advantage.

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Old 12-31-2011, 01:39 PM   #24
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Bauglir wrote:

Actually I'm a decent player, I don't expect you to believe me and I'm not going to share my character name and server.  The problem is that for the content I am working on which is low end 6 man DoV dungeons the conj class simply won't parse well.  Scouts and melee will have the best opprotunity to dps.

I think you and your raid pals have top gear and that gear really does define the conj class, and all mage classes.  I also think your working your butt off to be a DPS contender.  You are working far harder then scouts.  You are workign far harder then the beastloards will be. 

Maybe you have a scout, maybe you don't.  It does not matter.

Your an elitiest, nothing wrong with that.  However your group type, your group venue, and your familairty level with your group members are different.  Your playing a different game.  A game where you actually will have "perfectly balanced" groups, a game where you will be raiding and thus the mobs don't die as fast so you can start up your rotation and make it work.

I bet if you found a pug of rygorr equiped people you didn't know you would end up out-parced by a scout or a damage Sk.

People like you are the majority of the 90 DOV content runners, but the game is almost dead, in part because of people like you.  The culture you help sustain is simply not going to welcome people into this game.  You need new people, seriously you do.

You expect the few of us that have returned or are new to:  have 300+ AAs, buy overpriced raid leftovers, and to put up with your arrogance, in order to be suitable to group with you as a fill-in if someone dosen't show up for groups or raids.

I wonder what you will do when beastlords parse better on raids... oh wait you will PL one and play that more.

I have a lot of sympathy with most of what you write here.

But all that said, the Conjuror class is not in a bad state. Suzanna is not raidgeared, well, other than a couple of pieces she has picked up on pick-up raids - it is mostly Ry'Gorr gear still. But when she joins groups, she is usually topping the group parse, even against some scouts who are raidgeared (not hardmode-geared ones, but mediocre ones).

Even in groups with absolutely no buff classes, Suzi will be getting a zonewide of 40-50K, and have much higher numbers on specific fights she is saving her big hits for, and that is more than enough to match most non-raidgeared DPS classes.

Ignore the idiots saying "oh I parse 130K on a poor day", in practice, when you group with them, most of them end up with 20K-30K ZW. Run ACT and trust the numbers, and ignore nonsense spouted in channel. I cannot stress this enough: almost all losers in pickup groups lie about their parse and inflate the numbers in their chatter, but the reality is what you see in your ACT. Ignore the fights that last only a few seconds, those measure nothing - look at the long fights.

If someone is seeing equally geared scouts getting 5x the damage, they are just doing some things wrong, and need to look into it a bit. It can be fixed.

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Old 01-04-2012, 01:09 PM   #25
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Ok.  So what is your spell rotation?

If your basing your decent dps off of one spell:  manaburn then there is a problem, and I can tell you that 40kish dps is simply not competitive when melee are doing 50, 60,...90... 100.....

Was on a raid last night.. most of the people were in rygorr.. I was doing around 27 - 30k..  I was dead last.  260ish AA.. better AAed conj in same gear did 31 - 33k... both of us sucked.

So what are we doing wrong?  whats that special rotation?

Anyone?

At this rate I have to wonder why I bother.. if I need to rely on getting manaburn to be a contender thats a serious issue..it means one high AA skill is the difference between being a contender or not being one.. thats completely rediclious.

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Old 01-06-2012, 08:07 PM   #26
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Bauglir wrote:

Ok.  So what is your spell rotation?

If your basing your decent dps off of one spell:  manaburn then there is a problem, and I can tell you that 40kish dps is simply not competitive when melee are doing 50, 60,...90... 100.....

Was on a raid last night.. most of the people were in rygorr.. I was doing around 27 - 30k..  I was dead last.  260ish AA.. better AAed conj in same gear did 31 - 33k... both of us sucked.

So what are we doing wrong?  whats that special rotation?

Anyone?

At this rate I have to wonder why I bother.. if I need to rely on getting manaburn to be a contender thats a serious issue..it means one high AA skill is the difference between being a contender or not being one.. thats completely rediclious.

1)  Focus on getting 100% cast speed and as close to 100% reuse speed as possible.  Adorns / reforging / whatever.

2)  Go look up an AA spec that doesn't suck.  280+ AAs is very necessary for stuff like the pet crit bonus improvements in Heroic + soulburn.  I also recommend enough of the Wis line that you can open up with stuff and not lose the pet instantly.

3)  Soulburn every time it's up, same with Elemental Blast (unless you have an Illy then time this with Time Warp).  

4)  On group encounters use toxicity and spam PBAE and normal AEs.  Toxicity hits each member of an encounter for each thing in the encounter you hit.  I have lagged my computer on things like fights in drunder with the waves of piggies.

5)  If your pet pulls aggro, use stoneskins or master's intervention, don't trust reanimate to always save you.

6)  DPS output is also dependent on your tank.  If your tank can't handle that kind of aggro you won't be able to do that kind of damage.

7)  Be close enough to use Implosion and Earthquake.

 Cast blazing avatar whenever it's up.

You're going to be using Crystal Blast a lot if you have good gear because you'll cast too fast for other stuff to be up and refreshing some of Conjuror DoTs isn't helpful.

I couldn't really tell you my spell 'rotation' except that I push a lot of buttons, but gear is what's really going to seperate a lot out too as better gear starts having a higher and higher effect.

EDIT:  I want to say 40-60k was common dps for me as I was learning the class and in a medley of random heroic gear.  x2/x4 gear with adorns was what jumped it up to 80-150k depending on situations.

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Old 01-09-2012, 12:18 PM   #27
Banditman

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I agree, Conjurors aren't about a hard and fast "rotation" of spells.  It's understanding how those spells all work and what situations favor given techniques.

Yes, Blazing Avatar every time it's up.  Same for Soulburn.  Same for Elemental Unity.

With only 260 AA's, I'd probably go with something like this for a DPS spec.  You're still missing Soulburn, which is very important, but that cannot be fixed with so few AA.

Spend a lot of time on epic dummies in the GH learning how to rotate things.  Gear makes a huge difference in how you do things, so telling you how I rotate my spells will not be very meaningful to you until you are at a comparable level.

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Old 01-09-2012, 02:14 PM   #28
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Working together with a Troubador and Illusionist in your group can literally boost your DPS by 2-5x.

Soloing (having to heal my pet) I can average 50-70k dps. In our raids when im in the mage group (Illy/Troub) most fights my dps will be more like 90-150k dps. If its an ecounter with multiple mobs, that number increases by a lot =) now we're talking 150-275k dps!

So remember, when people are throwing out there numbers of dps, the majority of the time the high numbers are cause of other classes boosting the conj SMILEY

I always have our illy macro their timewarp to send me a tell its incoming, that way I have an audible sound to prepare for my deadly arsenal of spells im about to unleash when it goes off ^_^

Soulburn, Elemental Blast, Elemental Toxicity - these three AA's will add A LOT to your overall DPS when used well.

I just wish my scout pet was more useful....

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Old 01-09-2012, 03:11 PM   #29
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Mohee wrote:

Working together with a Troubador and Illusionist in your group can literally boost your DPS by 2-5x.

Soloing (having to heal my pet) I can average 50-70k dps. In our raids when im in the mage group (Illy/Troub) most fights my dps will be more like 90-150k dps. If its an ecounter with multiple mobs, that number increases by a lot =) now we're talking 150-275k dps!

So remember, when people are throwing out there numbers of dps, the majority of the time the high numbers are cause of other classes boosting the conj

I always have our illy macro their timewarp to send me a tell its incoming, that way I have an audible sound to prepare for my deadly arsenal of spells im about to unleash when it goes off ^_^

Soulburn, Elemental Blast, Elemental Toxicity - these three AA's will add A LOT to your overall DPS when used well.

I just wish my scout pet was more useful....

Well considering all I am missing is Solulburn my points then about:

1.  one AA spell being required.

2.  DPS being subpar overall [due to heavy reliance on other classes]

Are correct.

Oh well.. can't expect much from a 7 year old plus game I guess..

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Old 01-09-2012, 03:17 PM   #30
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Banditman wrote:

I agree, Conjurors aren't about a hard and fast "rotation" of spells.  It's understanding how those spells all work and what situations favor given techniques.

Yes, Blazing Avatar every time it's up.  Same for Soulburn.  Same for Elemental Unity.

With only 260 AA's, I'd probably go with something like this for a DPS spec.  You're still missing Soulburn, which is very important, but that cannot be fixed with so few AA.

Spend a lot of time on epic dummies in the GH learning how to rotate things.  Gear makes a huge difference in how you do things, so telling you how I rotate my spells will not be very meaningful to you until you are at a comparable level.

"ONLY 260 AA's"?  I am being outdamaged by melee and wizards with 240 - 260 AAs and similar gear/adorns.  Yeah first I thought "I just suck... I should go and quit".  However, I ran into a few conj's with similar gear and AAs and they were doing around the same DPS.

Sure.. when I get around to it and end up with 300ish AA I suppose I'll be able to compete better but even then I suspect melee, Wizards, Warlocks will do more DPS in a group or in raids.

I'm not asking for all classes to be balanced but as it stands I'm not competitive with my AA/Gear Peers of other classes.

I'll keep plugging to get to 300+ AA but I doubt its goign to make much of a difference.

I might be able to hit 40k dps then while other classes are doing 80 and 100k..

There is a word for this..   "demoralizing".

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