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Old 10-17-2011, 11:52 PM   #91
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Wasuna wrote:

1. SK's heal, Paladins ward against spike damage and also can heal. As many irriatating people say... L2P. It seems appropriate in this situation.

2. I parse eveerything. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Of course that was a year ago so those logs are gone. To bad your little baby argument about ward procs was wrong becasue SoE has ALL of the info and they nerfed your healing for a reason. I do agree that those darn ward procs were way to much. A Guardian is not suppose to be doing 1000 HPS and SK's aren't suppose to be doing 3000 HPS. Going into a zone, having the tank intentinally pull 4-5 groups, parse the highest in the group by 2-3 and out heal the healer by 3-4 times becasue the healer just flat didn't need to heal is frustrating to the maximum degree pleaying a dps or healer. Then the tank would just stand there waiting for all their abilities to come back up and do it again. Totally stupid and you just keep asking for that back. The only word I have for that thinking is stupid.

3. It was a fix that fit the problem. I can't fault the need for the fix but I do agree that it would have been better if they didn't bypass the game mechanics for a fix.

4. Your answer just shows that you only care for your class and say screw all the rest. I understand all class cross lines but what your failing to realize is that fighters cross the lines more than anybody else and you just keep asking for more. Play a freaking healer if you want to heal. It's why there are 24 classes. If fighters were supposet to heal then they would be called healers and not fighters. Pretty simple.

Till you can actually produce those numbers and logs that you claim you had but no longer have, we're all still going to think you're being pretentious.

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Old 10-18-2011, 05:42 AM   #92
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The issue with fighter healing was always scaling... what was *needed* in raids was "too much" in solo and herioc groups. As for fighters getting small healing based abilities....well that was a side effect of making other "reduce damage abilities" (primarily mitigation) effectively useless.

Damage reduction has been given... and reduced; +mitigaiton stats reduced. Pratically everything given to fighters to reduce damage has been taken away as what is needed for raids is "too much" for herioc and solo. Heals on fighters were just one more step in a nerver ending cycle of giving fighters the ability to gear towards reducing damage.... only to realise that raid mobs hit harder than heriocs and having people moan so much they are reduced as *shock horror* well geared tanks can survive better and *oh noes* a fighter takes less damage than my just leveled necro!

YES; I believe that fighters should have the tools and abilities to reduce or stop damage for short perids of time.NO; I do not think this shoud be mainly healing or healing based abilities  (unless pally) there should be other methods..

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Old 10-24-2011, 12:54 PM   #93
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[email protected] wrote:

The issue with fighter healing was always scaling... what was *needed* in raids was "too much" in solo and herioc groups. As for fighters getting small healing based abilities....well that was a side effect of making other "reduce damage abilities" (primarily mitigation) effectively useless.

Damage reduction has been given... and reduced; +mitigaiton stats reduced. Pratically everything given to fighters to reduce damage has been taken away as what is needed for raids is "too much" for herioc and solo. Heals on fighters were just one more step in a nerver ending cycle of giving fighters the ability to gear towards reducing damage.... only to realise that raid mobs hit harder than heriocs and having people moan so much they are reduced as *shock horror* well geared tanks can survive better and *oh noes* a fighter takes less damage than my just leveled necro!

YES; I believe that fighters should have the tools and abilities to reduce or stop damage for short perids of time.NO; I do not think this shoud be mainly healing or healing based abilities  (unless pally) there should be other methods..

While I agree with most of your post, I have to say that not all fighetrs as raid tanks need to be able to stop/avoid damage. If your a tank that has more dps/untility/whatnot then you have to pick your healers/group setup a bit better. Wardens have a 10 second damage invul spell. Conjours have a two shot stoneskin. Illusionists and shamen have that illusion thing.

People keep making this a fighter issue. Fighers need to be able to do this themselves. Fighters need more, More, MORE! It's a MMO.. remmmeber the MMO part of it.

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Old 10-24-2011, 01:08 PM   #94
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Guardians: Damage Reduction + Stoneskin + Low Avoidance + 1 Deathsave to reduce incomming damage.

Monks: Seemingly High Mitigation + Damage Reduction + Avoidance + Percent based healing + 3 Deathsaves to reduce incomming damage.

Berserker: Damage Reduction + Regeneration + Low Avoidance + 1 Deathsave to reduce incomming damage.

Brawler: Seemingly High Mitigation + Damage Reduction + Avoidance + Percent based healing + 3 Deathsaves to reduce incomming damage.

Shadowknight: High Mitigation + Lifetaps + Low Avoidance + 2 Deathsave (nerfed to 2 per fight only) to reduce incomming damage.

Paladins: High Mitigation + Damage Reduction + Wards + Heals + Low Avoidance to reduce incomming damage.

What does not scale with content:

Shadowknights Lifetaps. (almost useless now, goes against cannon.)

Paladins Wards/Healing abilitys. (almost useless now, goes against cannon.)

Berserker Regeneration/Healing abilitys. (Pretty much no point in casting.)

What does scale with content:Brawler Avoidance/Percent Based Healing/Deathsaves.

Guardians Stoneskins.

Who are the most powerful tanks right now?  thats easy.

 

Paladins need bigger wards to prevent these AOEs, NOT stoneskins.

Shadowknights need MUCH BIGGER lifetaps and maybe a "Blood Ward" that whatever lifetap overheals them turns that much into a ward. (So if your at 97-100% and you use a lifetap, it turns it into a ward and stacks up to 4000.)

Berserkers need Adrenaline back to DR and our heals to be ALOT stronger.

 

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Old 10-24-2011, 02:10 PM   #95
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dev's need to stop playing this game with "defensive vs. offensive" tanks.     the tanks should be single target vs. multiple target and the other difference should come in the way of how damage is delt as far as flavor.

  i have said it in MANY threads and i'll say it again in this one..

 you can NOT have a tank that dies or a tank that does not hold agro because with out either of those you really DON'T have a tank, period. 

 i say you give back crit heals since half the tank classes depend on them.

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Old 10-25-2011, 01:37 PM   #96
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The AoE vs ST is the same argument. ST can't hold agro on AoE encounters but AoE tanks CAN hold agro on ST encounetrs.

Same problem, just a slightly different argument.

ST vs AoE

Defensive vs Offensive

Somebody always loses.

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Old 10-25-2011, 02:06 PM   #97
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quit trying to be game designers..

Just list whats wrong with your class.

You guys realize, they are just messing with you now?

Think about all the endless threads about tank balance last expansion, whats the answer?  Make them fail so bad no one wants to play them anymore.  /win  (It also fixed the everyone soloing everything on a tank and no one playing the other classes.)

I've got a pretty strong feeling they got a big ol' laugh over coop strike and the like.   Oh you want to hit the mob? whaa? no wai !  actually, wait we will give that ability back to you through "upgrades"

We don't want fighters to dps, but what about the fighters that hold agro through dps?  ummm , look over there.. something shiny..!!  A beastlord!

I have more points.. but i got bored. 

You have to have realized this by now.

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Old 10-25-2011, 02:49 PM   #98
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[email protected] wrote:

quit trying to be game designers..

Just list whats wrong with your class.

You guys realize, they are just messing with you now?

Think about all the endless threads about tank balance last expansion, whats the answer?  Make them fail so bad no one wants to play them anymore.  /win  (It also fixed the everyone soloing everything on a tank and no one playing the other classes.)

I've got a pretty strong feeling they got a big ol' laugh over coop strike and the like.   Oh you want to hit the mob? whaa? no wai !  actually, wait we will give that ability back to you through "upgrades"

We don't want fighters to dps, but what about the fighters that hold agro through dps?  ummm , look over there.. something shiny..!!  A beastlord!

I have more points.. but i got bored. 

You have to have realized this by now.

What game do you play, because its not EQ2, because the best Soloers in EQ2 are healers, hands down.

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Old 10-26-2011, 05:00 AM   #99
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Wasuna wrote:

The AoE vs ST is the same argument. ST can't hold agro on AoE encounters but AoE tanks CAN hold agro on ST encounetrs.

Same problem, just a slightly different argument.

ST vs AoE

Defensive vs Offensive

Somebody always loses.

 true enough but not being able to hold 10 mobs as good as another tank won't matter to my single target tank as much as being dead or not being able to hold agro period. 

   giving the single target tanks more damage and control over a single mob will be enough or just make all tanks have about the same potential controlled by AA but done in different ways for flavor.    

 at any rate a tank that dies or can not hold agro at all is useless.

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Old 10-26-2011, 06:47 AM   #100
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Offtopic:

The true difference between ST and AOE tanks is just the following:

- AOE tanks can get addgrps faster than ST tanks, but 10secs later this whole grp will memwipe anyway and its all about snaps - so in the end it doesnt matter if you got alot AOEs or not, its about abilities to snap it back and HG for instance is a joke if your aggro went to zero. (just an example)

On-topic:

I still think a similar debuff like the critchance-stuff in DoV-heroic-zones should be applied to crit heals of fighters, let them crit in raidzones even when "heroic"-adds are involved. Dont think its this hard to manage + community will point out if you cant crit on a raidfight due to a heroic add that debuffs + devs can fix it then.

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Old 10-26-2011, 07:18 PM   #101
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there might need to be some adjustments made when tank heals are allowed again but those would be minimal tbh the only one i can think off is the paladin myth buff that value should definetly be toned down but even losing a bit on that over all heal crits would benefit paladin most of all tanks then sk's and zerks.     

 it's pretty easy to see how removing this mechanic has left those 3 tanks with much less survivability than the others.

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Old 10-26-2011, 08:54 PM   #102
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Well the heal critical nerf didn't really effect brawlers because all their heals are percent based.

The heal critical nerf didn't effect guardians because they got stoneskins, then they got even more and an entire class revamp so they're class constantly has them up.

Meanwhile.

Crusaders/Zerkers lost over half they're healing. (about 75% of it.)

I agree that percent based heals should never critical.

But making the non-percent based stuff critical would be a huge fix. ((but you would have to nerf outward calm.))

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Old 11-02-2011, 07:02 PM   #103
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Fighter heals not critting is fine. I have an SK and can solo most of everything already, he doesn't need even more invincibility. As far as pvp, tanks used to be pretty effin invincible to where fights would take FOR-E-VER (think Christmas Story forever) because they could solo multiple players at once with no issues. I think tanks SHOULD be reliant on healers for the most part because then what the hell are healers for? As a 90 SK, using Unholy Blessing shouldn't heal you for half or more of your life, that would make no sense, way too OP.

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Old 11-02-2011, 07:41 PM   #104
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[email protected] wrote:

Fighter heals not critting is fine. I have an SK and can solo most of everything already, he doesn't need even more invincibility. As far as pvp, tanks used to be pretty effin invincible to where fights would take FOR-E-VER (think Christmas Story forever) because they could solo multiple players at once with no issues. I think tanks SHOULD be reliant on healers for the most part because then what the hell are healers for? As a 90 SK, using Unholy Blessing shouldn't heal you for half or more of your life, that would make no sense, way too OP.

it wouldn't make a difference in soloing because you can already solo pretty much everything, this is for hard heroics/raids.

It doesn't matter if your more invincible against solo mobs, because you already ARE invincible.

Crit healing also won't effect reaver since its a percent based heal.

Solo mobs hit you for nothing, your reaver alone would outheal it, you dont even need heal crits for that, you need heal crits for HARDER content, WHEN I started this topic I already knew all this, everyone knows this, monks and brawlers are gods at soloing too, even better then SKS and they dont even need healing criticals because none of there heals are base, they are all percent.

You know whats funny?  the best soloers in the game are healers, and they do it even better then your SK and can still run circles around him.

"Nobody cares about soloing anymore"

@also, PvP is a separate game with completely different mechanics, healing is halved in PVP now, they reduced all healing/wards by 50% since then, and they can do it again if it got too rediculous, also you get FAR less critical bonus/potency in PVP.

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Old 11-03-2011, 04:55 AM   #105
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[email protected] wrote:

 fights would take FOR-E-VER (think Christmas Story forever) 

sandlot amigo

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Old 11-03-2011, 12:45 PM   #106
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 fights would take FOR-E-VER (think Christmas Story forever) 

sandlot amigo

I'm glad PVP/PVE Fights and mechanics are not separated and completely different, otherwise your argument wouldn't be valid, because there is no way PVP/PVE stats are not separated and healing isn't lowered and can't be adjusted in PVP.

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Old 11-03-2011, 07:16 PM   #107
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In my opinion, fighters don't need their crits to heal.  So what if brawlers are the best tank?  For like 90% of the game they have been the tank that needs raid gear to tank heroic zones and still not do as well as plate tanks in heroic gear.  Although maybe they should be adjusted down a little, not much.  Your argument is invalid.  The healer is the healer.  They should be healing you.

On my zerker i find that i can keep myself alive well enough to survive in heroic zones quite well, with a semi-descent healer.  I don't raid on my tank (i raid on warlock) so i can't really say much about them except that it seems although crusaders and zerkers aren't good MTs, they both can still be good at OTs or with thier utility.

In pvp also they don't need heal crits.  They already can heal descently well, a zerker/crusader shouldn't be soloing groups with ease.  If this is your problem, you need to re-examine your argument.

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Old 11-03-2011, 10:16 PM   #108
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I don't care about PVP, I don't care if heals still don't crit in PVP, I only care about PVE.

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Old 11-03-2011, 10:31 PM   #109
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I don't care about PVP, I don't care if heals still don't crit in PVP, I only care about PVE.

So happy to see you say this again

Will save this quote for later use thank you so much for it.

As for tank heals and if they need to crit.  No they dont could they be boosted a touch for Zerks and Crusaders yes they could.  Will they be prolly not.  If anything happens to increase them you can be sure that it will go way over and we would be able to solo even con hard mode end game raid content which would be OP so prolly best to leave things as they are since I a pretty sure most of the rest of the zerk population does not want to be OP we just want to be on more even ground with the rest.

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Old 11-05-2011, 04:29 PM   #110
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Heals caster for 754-1023... nuff said needs to crit or be percent based.

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Old 11-08-2011, 01:03 PM   #111
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Raahl wrote:

Really?  Your mitigation is less than a similarly equipped Guardian.  Show your equipment and what your mitigation is self buffed.

I suspect we will find your mitigation is not that far from that of a Guardian.  I could be wrong here, lets see.

Not far from the truth, SKs have a little bit "more" mitigation then a guardian, but its so little extra it hardly matters.

Read this carefully Everyone, this is from my point of view as a berserker:

In SF there were fights with hundreds of mobs attacking the tank, Each time a berserker is damaged with "battle frenzy" (5 minute recast), he heals for 10% PERCENT (+critical) of his health.

Basicly making the berserker invincible against that kind of attack.

Healers decided this wasn't fair, linking heal parses everywhere where they showed berserkers using battle frenzy + stonewill gear, topping healing parses. (well of course they are topping the parse, remember Cella fights?)

This even effected PVP, instead of chosing to debuff the ability like your suppost to, people would cry and cry until it got its nerf, now the ability is a 4% with 15 triggers, basicly making it a 60% heal on a 5 minute recast (compared to Brawlers 100% heal on a 45 second recast), pretty much making the ability useless in Player versus Player combat.

The ability in DoV will not save you, its usefulness on Non-Gank fights showed, in SF all the hard heroics and raids used lots of mobs to attack the tank at once, while in this expansion, its basicly 1 mob, he hits 100x harder and slower WITH Co-op strike, and giving mobs more multi-attack and flurry.  These mechanics greatly punish abilitys such as battle frenzy and other smaller heals berserker had that relied on getting hit.

- 1 Mob instead of hundreds (SF-DoV)

- Hitting Slower, Hitting Harder (SF-DoV)

- Co-Op Strike (SF-DoV)

- Mobs Multi-Attacking and Flurrying.

All these things combined made the abilitys berserkers had in SF pretty much diminished to very low to little help, the abilitys that were parsing 4000 are parsing 300, i'm just not getting hit as often as I was.

Meditative Healing (a Monk ability) heals just as much as battle frenzy in DoV.

If a Monk takes over a certain percent of HP, he heals for 15% (as much as battle frenzy).

This ability is up forever, and since mobs always hit over that percent of HP, its always healing him, and unlike Battle Frenzy, it lasts forever, its ALWAYS up.

Wow really? In spire of rage x4 with me as monk MT, meditative mending proc'd 6 times the whole zone for a whopping zone wide heal parse of 44k HP rofl!!!!!!!!! Yeah u can also have that ability, no one will care ROFL!!!!!!!! We have to be hit for over 40% of our health to proc it basically designed so we arent 1 shotted on a big double attack.

Monk heal is 2.5-3 minutes bro not even close to 45s, good try though if you ever play a monk you will also see that ability is almost never used in raid while MT.

Its definately not the Monks "healing" ability that gives them anything in survivability as raid MT. Wards and Strikethrough are the money makers in this expansion which favors the guardian and brawler.

Also beware what you ask for you just may get it! I personnaly would NOT want any class nerfed, if the content was easy mode for any fighter the content would be cleared by now.

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Old 11-08-2011, 01:38 PM   #112
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Critical heals would only help Paladins on raids IF their ward was allowed to critical. Critical heals would not help any fighter at all in raids.

Critical heals would once again make fighters that can heal 100% overpowered for Heroic content.

That is what these people are asking for. The want to be overpowered in Heroic content so they can go have more fun than the rest of us. The people that want this are Berserkers and Crusaders.

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Old 11-08-2011, 01:41 PM   #113
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Damager wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Raahl wrote:

Really?  Your mitigation is less than a similarly equipped Guardian.  Show your equipment and what your mitigation is self buffed.

I suspect we will find your mitigation is not that far from that of a Guardian.  I could be wrong here, lets see.

Not far from the truth, SKs have a little bit "more" mitigation then a guardian, but its so little extra it hardly matters.

Read this carefully Everyone, this is from my point of view as a berserker:

In SF there were fights with hundreds of mobs attacking the tank, Each time a berserker is damaged with "battle frenzy" (5 minute recast), he heals for 10% PERCENT (+critical) of his health.

Basicly making the berserker invincible against that kind of attack.

Healers decided this wasn't fair, linking heal parses everywhere where they showed berserkers using battle frenzy + stonewill gear, topping healing parses. (well of course they are topping the parse, remember Cella fights?)

This even effected PVP, instead of chosing to debuff the ability like your suppost to, people would cry and cry until it got its nerf, now the ability is a 4% with 15 triggers, basicly making it a 60% heal on a 5 minute recast (compared to Brawlers 100% heal on a 45 second recast), pretty much making the ability useless in Player versus Player combat.

The ability in DoV will not save you, its usefulness on Non-Gank fights showed, in SF all the hard heroics and raids used lots of mobs to attack the tank at once, while in this expansion, its basicly 1 mob, he hits 100x harder and slower WITH Co-op strike, and giving mobs more multi-attack and flurry.  These mechanics greatly punish abilitys such as battle frenzy and other smaller heals berserker had that relied on getting hit.

- 1 Mob instead of hundreds (SF-DoV)

- Hitting Slower, Hitting Harder (SF-DoV)

- Co-Op Strike (SF-DoV)

- Mobs Multi-Attacking and Flurrying.

All these things combined made the abilitys berserkers had in SF pretty much diminished to very low to little help, the abilitys that were parsing 4000 are parsing 300, i'm just not getting hit as often as I was.

Meditative Healing (a Monk ability) heals just as much as battle frenzy in DoV.

If a Monk takes over a certain percent of HP, he heals for 15% (as much as battle frenzy).

This ability is up forever, and since mobs always hit over that percent of HP, its always healing him, and unlike Battle Frenzy, it lasts forever, its ALWAYS up.

Wow really? In spire of rage x4 with me as monk MT, meditative mending proc'd 6 times the whole zone for a whopping zone wide heal parse of 44k HP rofl!!!!!!!!! Yeah u can also have that ability, no one will care ROFL!!!!!!!! We have to be hit for over 40% of our health to proc it basically designed so we arent 1 shotted on a big double attack.

Monk heal is 2.5-3 minutes bro not even close to 45s, good try though if you ever play a monk you will also see that ability is almost never used in raid while MT.

Its definately not the Monks "healing" ability that gives them anything in survivability as raid MT. Wards and Strikethrough are the money makers in this expansion which favors the guardian and brawler.

Also beware what you ask for you just may get it! I personnaly would NOT want any class nerfed, if the content was easy mode for any fighter the content would be cleared by now.

Don't most mobs in that zone pretty much kill you in one shot or have a high chance of killing you in one shot?  Your thing won't proc if you die on the hit I do not think, its too bad though that you have the most avoidance in the entire game and the most benefit from stoneskins... Did you know if you throw a guardian and monk in the same group the monk can barley get hit, and when he does he can be protected by the guardian, lowering the physical damage to maybe something under 40%, then add wards, no wonder it doesn't proc so often, but its needed to survive those raids.  Not to mention the guardian can also stoneskin him now...

If its so terrible, why do you have 5 points in it?

Its true that monk healing isn't anything that gives them much survivability, but its alot of healing compared to other classes, also, I consider Wards a bit part of healing, even if they are separated, I usually use them in the same context.

Massive critting wards...

Yeah, if Brawlers were nerfed nobody could clear the new raid zones, and heal critical nerf (What this discussion is about.) does not effect brawler, so yeah.... why are you even here if you cannot even contribute to the discussion since it does not effect your class?

Oh... maybe its because your afraid your overpowered class will get nerfed balanced?

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Old 11-08-2011, 02:28 PM   #114
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Raahl wrote:

Really?  Your mitigation is less than a similarly equipped Guardian.  Show your equipment and what your mitigation is self buffed.

I suspect we will find your mitigation is not that far from that of a Guardian.  I could be wrong here, lets see.

Not far from the truth, SKs have a little bit "more" mitigation then a guardian, but its so little extra it hardly matters.

Read this carefully Everyone, this is from my point of view as a berserker:

In SF there were fights with hundreds of mobs attacking the tank, Each time a berserker is damaged with "battle frenzy" (5 minute recast), he heals for 10% PERCENT (+critical) of his health.

Basicly making the berserker invincible against that kind of attack.

Healers decided this wasn't fair, linking heal parses everywhere where they showed berserkers using battle frenzy + stonewill gear, topping healing parses. (well of course they are topping the parse, remember Cella fights?)

This even effected PVP, instead of chosing to debuff the ability like your suppost to, people would cry and cry until it got its nerf, now the ability is a 4% with 15 triggers, basicly making it a 60% heal on a 5 minute recast (compared to Brawlers 100% heal on a 45 second recast), pretty much making the ability useless in Player versus Player combat.

The ability in DoV will not save you, its usefulness on Non-Gank fights showed, in SF all the hard heroics and raids used lots of mobs to attack the tank at once, while in this expansion, its basicly 1 mob, he hits 100x harder and slower WITH Co-op strike, and giving mobs more multi-attack and flurry.  These mechanics greatly punish abilitys such as battle frenzy and other smaller heals berserker had that relied on getting hit.

- 1 Mob instead of hundreds (SF-DoV)

- Hitting Slower, Hitting Harder (SF-DoV)

- Co-Op Strike (SF-DoV)

- Mobs Multi-Attacking and Flurrying.

All these things combined made the abilitys berserkers had in SF pretty much diminished to very low to little help, the abilitys that were parsing 4000 are parsing 300, i'm just not getting hit as often as I was.

Meditative Healing (a Monk ability) heals just as much as battle frenzy in DoV.

If a Monk takes over a certain percent of HP, he heals for 15% (as much as battle frenzy).

This ability is up forever, and since mobs always hit over that percent of HP, its always healing him, and unlike Battle Frenzy, it lasts forever, its ALWAYS up.

Wow really? In spire of rage x4 with me as monk MT, meditative mending proc'd 6 times the whole zone for a whopping zone wide heal parse of 44k HP rofl!!!!!!!!! Yeah u can also have that ability, no one will care ROFL!!!!!!!! We have to be hit for over 40% of our health to proc it basically designed so we arent 1 shotted on a big double attack.

Monk heal is 2.5-3 minutes bro not even close to 45s, good try though if you ever play a monk you will also see that ability is almost never used in raid while MT.

Its definately not the Monks "healing" ability that gives them anything in survivability as raid MT. Wards and Strikethrough are the money makers in this expansion which favors the guardian and brawler.

Also beware what you ask for you just may get it! I personnaly would NOT want any class nerfed, if the content was easy mode for any fighter the content would be cleared by now.

Don't most mobs in that zone pretty much kill you in one shot or have a high chance of killing you in one shot?  Your thing won't proc if you die on the hit I do not think, its too bad though that you have the most avoidance in the entire game and the most benefit from stoneskins... Did you know if you throw a guardian and monk in the same group the monk can barley get hit, and when he does he can be protected by the guardian, lowering the physical damage to maybe something under 40%, then add wards, no wonder it doesn't proc so often, but its needed to survive those raids.  Not to mention the guardian can also stoneskin him now...

If its so terrible, why do you have 5 points in it?

Its true that monk healing isn't anything that gives them much survivability, but its alot of healing compared to other classes, also, I consider Wards a bit part of healing, even if they are separated, I usually use them in the same context.

Massive critting wards...

Yeah, if Brawlers were nerfed nobody could clear the new raid zones, and heal critical nerf (What this discussion is about.) does not effect brawler, so yeah.... why are you even here if you cannot even contribute to the discussion since it does not effect your class?

Oh... maybe its because your afraid your overpowered class will get nerfed balanced?

The previous statements made where false on monk abilities which obviously needed corrected. At the point someone falsly states abilities about another class in order to make their class look inferior it is an invitation for that class to correct you.

No way no how every hit a monk takes procs meditative mending as stated, period. Not even close, not even remotely close, not even 1% close. That statement was and is completely wrong and needed corrected. No way no how is monks heal every 45s, again complete lie.   

Our guard tanks everything I do with no issues, he has none of these so called OP monk healing abilities. I am trying to correct what you should be asking for and its not critical healing. I really dont think you understand, a full X4 zone as MT I healed 44k HP, even the worst mending rune would out parse mditative mending ZW how this is greater healing than any fighter is completely beyond me..

Crit healing is not the way to go, You should be asking for strikethrough immunity in your temps.

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Old 11-08-2011, 05:13 PM   #115
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Maybe they should remove strikethrough Immunity from everything, then turn all heals into percent based to make everything balanced.

Strikethrough Immunity is a pretty bad idea, so is strikethrough.

Meditative Mending doesn't proc if the attack kills you and triggers a death prevent, which most of the mobs in that raid zone do, so its no wonder it proced only 6 times.

Why are you arguing about it?  it does not even effect your class...

And Heal criticals really wouldn't make a difference in Spires of Rage x4, so using that as an example is pretty fail.

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Old 11-08-2011, 11:28 PM   #116
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Maybe they should remove strikethrough Immunity from everything, then turn all heals into percent based to make everything balanced.

Strikethrough Immunity is a pretty bad idea, so is strikethrough.

Meditative Mending doesn't proc if the attack kills you and triggers a death prevent, which most of the mobs in that raid zone do, so its no wonder it proced only 6 times.

Why are you arguing about it?  it does not even effect your class...

And Heal criticals really wouldn't make a difference in Spires of Rage x4, so using that as an example is pretty fail.

Really? I was hit 2416 times and only proc'd mending 6 times, how many death prevents do you think a monk has? You do realize a monk has to know he is going to die in order to cast it and it only last 45 seconds, its not up all the time and has a 4 minute recast.

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Old 11-09-2011, 12:02 AM   #117
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Beastlords will have critical healing, so why can't fighters?

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Old 11-09-2011, 12:26 AM   #118
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Talathion the mentally challenged.

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Old 11-09-2011, 03:49 AM   #119
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as a paladin I want crit heals back so that I can actually use my heals and have them mean something. when a mob never hits you for less then 5k, and the max you can heal is 1k, you aren't really healing anything. I know the numbers are off but not by much. we have super inflated hp, and the mobs hit hard enough to hurt you. I get that, I'm fine with it. but as a paladin, part of the reason I'm supposed to have less defense/mit then the guard as a def tank is becuase my heals are supposed to supplement me. I don't take the hits as well, but I can heal up some of that excess damage I do take.

right now that is just not the case. I can barely dent the damage the mob is doing to me.

not to mention I would love to have the option to adorn some gear with heal procs/ward procs...but most every single one of them state only: On a critical heal....

so since my heals don't crit, those adorns are worthless to me. I would love to have 2 sets of rygorr gear. one that has ward/healing procs, the other that has offensive procs and mix and match them. if I don't need so much on healing, throw on some more offesive procs. if we're trying a new zone or trying a harder one with 1 healer or without a support class, throw on some more warding/healing. but most of those procs require you to be able to crit heal to make use of them.

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Old 11-09-2011, 04:37 AM   #120
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all you guys can argue till you're purple in the face but the fact stands.  

 fighters that depend on heals for survivability got shafted when criticals were nerfed and are now broken because of how much hit points has increased and how little potency does for these abilities.

  it's just NOT HARD to put two and two together.   double fighter heal potency values since hp's has at least doubled or make them all percentage based or just let them crit again.

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