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Old 12-14-2007, 09:34 PM   #1
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Edit - Pink text added 24 May 2011. Blue text added 29 May 2011 (edited). This color text added 1st July 2011.

Edited again 28 May 2012. There is a LOT throughout this thread, covering various mechanics, gameplay, guild structure, combat, adventure, exploration, desired features, and nearly everything else.

Most of this thread is oolldd. 

 

To Read the Pink Text, Click Here

forums.station.sony.com / eq2 / posts / list.m?start=270&topic_id=399389 (remove the spaces)

 

EQ3:

  • Exploration is the most important element
  • Trade-Route System (sea, sky, and land; underground areas are primarily for supplying the "black market" or "smuggling" from one city to the other)
  • Layered combo attacks: thus making the game feasible on a console without diminishing the number of spells, and the variety allows for exciting, randomized animations
  • √("Spellweaving") Animation-focused combat: players know what button to press based on the animation of the opponent -- this feels like action or "twitch" combat
  • Smart instancing in a seemingly seamless world: Resource-based zones (farmlands), per player; housing zones, per neighborhood; arena zones, per tournament; trade-hub instances (interactive world-market or bazaar (optional: buy the item, retrieve it within the small zone), resource NPCs); seamless: sea, ground, sky, and underground zones
  • Various forms of governance in each city-state, dependent on the culture; players interact differently with the governments of each city; this affects guilds (in very small ways, like armor bonuses) and trade (resource management)
  • Never-ending randomly-generated quests in a quest-book (go here, give this crystal to someone, etc.; like geo-caching)
  • Social media applications (check the market, chat with friends)
  • Mobile applications (same as above)
  • Achievement system (keeps players hooked)
  • Non-instanced, ranked and instanced bloodsport, races, etc. (arenas)
  • Interactive NPC dialogue: I'd rather have interactive NPC dialogue (Vanguard sans cards) and advanced AI pathing, function, behavior, and personality (see pink text) than excessive voice-acting. Limited, professional voice-acting is more "immersive" than excessive, redundant, mediocre voice-acting
  • In-depth crafting system (like SWG)
  • Highly-detailed character customization (like EVE, but stylized)
  • √(SOEmote) Voice-chat
  • Don't call it "EQ3"; keep a simple name

I think you can make it easy to jump into at any time, not too grindy, interesting and challenging. Lots of little achievements are an important element of this, I think. Here's one vote for a casual-friendly game (no time for anything more than a few hours per week (sometimes less) for ~95% of the year -- although the ideas are really exciting!) -- casual availability != desire for easiness, acceptance of limited content, or avoidance of subscription tiers and item-store purchases. I prefer challenges, exploration, and a steady supply of new items and locations.

 

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Old 12-15-2007, 10:40 AM   #2
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Your ethnic municipalities make absolutely no sense within the contenxt of the game world.  High elves in the Enchanted Lands?  Kerrans in the desert?

I can't see the High Elves enjoying rubbing elbows with the Halflings and I can't see the Halflings overly enjoying a snooty elf presence on "their" island.  It would make more sense for them to retake Felwithe.

Kerrans are a species evolved to thrive in sub-tropical to temperate mountain environments.  I can't see the desert being all the comfortable for them.

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Old 12-15-2007, 12:25 PM   #3
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I agree with the person before me where puting the differnt races in differnt ploaces doesnt make sence with the lore. Secondly EQ3 Really really needs to be in yet another alternate dementoin where antonica isn't a buch of tiny little islands. That really kills imersion in the game you run for like 5 minutes and you hit the other side of an island. and theres not nearly enough land in the game to make up for the populatoin. So Id like eq3s landmasses to be more like everquest 1 and a little like vanguard. Vanguard bombed but the one thing i do like about is is the scale of the world. I want to feel like im in a real world a HUGE world not on a little string of islands. I want to see things get gradualy colder as you get closer to everforst i want to see some small sort of volacanic atvity in some way before sudenly being in the middle of huge lava feilds in lavastorm. I want it to take a long time to get places and have lots of quests along the way.

The problem with vanguard I thought is that it wasnt layed out well. Your lv 15 you dont konw where you should go you try to explore a little bit and run into lv 45 mobs vangaurd wasnt well layed out and there wasnt enough mob population in the world and the game just didnt look  good.

I love eq2s game play. keep that make the world more like it is in eq1 but make it on a MUCH bigger scale maybe have areas in the city that are dedicated to farming so that they are walled in away from danger. Bring back racial citys and multiple starting areas instead of just 2 citys to start off with. Races need to be seperate in there own citys unless they have aliances to let other races in.

I maybe one of the few that was hopeing EQ2 would just be a beter looking better gameplay version of eq1 in the future well eq2 is far from that the land is very differnt. I really hope that Eq3 is eq1 in the future in another dementoin so that the world can be the same not borken and be on a much larger scale.

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Old 12-15-2007, 12:52 PM   #4
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Sell the franchise rights for EQ3 to NCSoft or Blizzard, see if somebody else can run it in a fair and competent manner.
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:00 PM   #5
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:04 PM   #6
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
Sell the franchise rights for EQ3 to NCSoft or Blizzard, see if somebody else can run it in a fair and competent manner.
Im sorry, I don't want to see billions of immature people that are my age.A lot of us play EQ2 because it has a better community with LESS people.
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:06 PM   #7
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:09 PM   #8
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And we JUST got a new senior producer YESTERDAY.You cannot judge the future of EQ2 at all based on the events that he had to come resolve on his FIRST day.
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:22 PM   #9
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:27 PM   #10
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:08 PM   #11
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Aurorum wrote:

(Not ANOTHER one! XoP)

Ethnic Municipalities

bad idea in my opinion. why? the current 5 cities are allready barren enough.. no need to spread out players even more.

AI

- Greater variations between the attitudes of NPCs

me wants

Mini-Games

- Increase the number of mini-games. (Note: Some area-specific mini-games.) 1. Small fighting contests, including bar fights! ("Y'leave me 'lone, y'hear?"`) 2. Chess 3. "Stratego" (To Be Renamed) 4. Sudoku 5. Poetry Recital (Text box opens, NPC judges look for rhyme and meter; this only requires simple bits of code; of course, optional player judgments) 6. Racing (on foot, horse, and ship). "Secret" clubs for the winners ("masters", "champions"`) of certain games; deals on items and so forth.

some might enjoy them, but, remember the arena? never heard of anyone going there.....

World

- Detail is a must: Ships anchored to docks, swim-flippers, etc.

- Ships

me wants

- Weather (Where are the beautiful, rolling clouds?).

me wants

- Enhance the complexity of the terrain.

me wants

Dungeons

- Improve the puzzles, and build puzzle-centric dungeons; abstract, "trippy"-dungeons: mirrors, haunted houses, and the like. Give the dungeons a Myst-like edge. Avoid dreariness; instead, use distinct shapes and sounds to form natural patterns. Open your eyes to read MENSA et al.-predicated instructions and constructive criticism to devise the best possible puzzles.

i'm playing a mostly fight based game, i say no thx to stuff i need a 3rd party walkthrough to figure out....

Other

- Optional DirectX 10 update, costing $5 - $10. This includes advanced realism, resolution, lighting, shaders, pixel count, layers, etc. After the other mega-enhancements are complete, this total package will be worth presenting at the next E3. As customers become disenchanted with cookie-cutter MMOs, they will turn to this.

no reason for dx10... just fix the current engine....

- Character Creation Enhanced (a part/in the offered $5 - $10 graphics update). 1. Graphics: Details and layers overall 2. Hair and Body-part detail-stretching. 3. Weight option and age option. 4. Number entering (to the first decimal) instead of "just" the sliders.

good idea... but disagree on the pay for it part

- Optional $15-$20 "Adult" adventure-pack that greatly expands the "human" qualities of players; meaning, romanticism and eroticism.

too high risk of getting the game banned, lets face it, games allready face hard enough times from parents and politicians. the risk involved would simply be too high.

- More mounts, house-layouts, and casual clothing

me wants

- More spells, and another layer of combos.

me wants

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Old 12-15-2007, 10:56 PM   #12
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:05 PM   #13
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Josgar wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
Sell the franchise rights for EQ3 to NCSoft or Blizzard, see if somebody else can run it in a fair and competent manner.
Im sorry, I don't want to see billions of immature people that are my age.A lot of us play EQ2 because it has a better community with LESS people.
Spot on there Josgar,spot on
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:41 PM   #14
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Make the game run well on current top of the line hardware not what you think will be top of the line in 3 years.  Blizzard proves time and time again that you do not need cutting edge graphics for a game to be fun.  System upgrades do not really help eq2 if you were running a top end system when it was released which seems a little strange...
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:20 AM   #15
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My idea for the improvement of Eq2 is to start over and try an EQ3. Too many systems in place in Eq2 now to salvage it. Shattered Lands was a busted concept. No real soul to EQ2 atm, it feels very gamey and it is very hard to lose yourself in the Norath of EQ2.

If they had managed to turn the shattered lands concept into an evolving story it may have worked but thus far it has solely consisted of - yup, we found another Shattered Landmass. Woohoo. 

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Old 12-18-2007, 07:44 AM   #16
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And thats any different then in other MMOs?WoW yeah we found a gate to outworld that was normally all destroyedAnd their new expantion is Northend where they just happen to find some frosting on a mountainIts all the same system, where the NPCs find the hidden lands firstWhat i would like to see is the Boat system of Vanguard.Lets ourself sail towards the different islands. Ok they will need to create a HUGE Sea between all the islandsbut thats a very nice adition to the game and everyguild can work on the Boats. So that you have the small personal boats and the HUGE Guildboats.Then you have a more consistent world
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:25 AM   #17
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just remove instanced content, make everything contested and you get a winner.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:38 AM   #18
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In my opinion if/when they do a third incarnation of EQ they should make it truly innovative and new when it comes to game features. EQ1 was ground breaking in its day. EQ2 was less groundbreaking but still good and worthy of the name.

Features I would like to see would be

  • A Truly massive scaled gameworld with realistic world mechanics, by that I mean a functioning changing political & economic world where the actions or inactions of players can shape the world
  • New improved AI system for creatures and NPC's .
  • A more detailed Faction/social system whereby you are treated differently depending on your behaviour towards NPC's.
  • Guild run villages and towns.  Allow guilds to run villages and towns like a Barony, these would have there own simplified economics that need to be maintained. Also If the Guild lets the village/town fall into disrepair then it should be siezed back by the Ruler, and the chance of running it given to another guild. The guild that lost it would lose a lot of status with there ruler and would have to earn there way back up the ladder.
  • Guild run Mercantile endeavours - setting up shops, smitheys etc in guild run towns. Clearing trade routes, for caravans. Hiring other PC's for tasks!
  • Monsters should not respawn! once there dead they are dead. If you clear out the den of orcs, they should not just re-appear there. Its possible that they may come back, but whose to say that some other creature doesn't setup shop in that lair. Also unchecked monster lairs should grow and expand there influence dynamically.
  • Ships!!!
  • A new innovative combat system, perhaps based(only) on the DDO style, rather than button mashing.
  • Magic system, allow the tweaking and thus creation of new spells by players. Also maybe a Tech tree   style approach to spells, depending on how well or often you use certain spell types.
  • Crafting. Allow crafted buildings, ships, also allow crafters to learn how to specialise and tweak certain items stats and change the colours where possible. Crafters should also be allowed to mend broken items and Salvage items for some raw components.

just a few ideas there. Some possibly beyond current technology I'm not sure.

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Old 12-21-2007, 03:00 PM   #19
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Don't get your hopes up:Smedley:

"[We're] refocusing SOE on high quality and not rushing releases," said of his coming crop of games. They learned many valuable lessons from EverQuest II and its head-to-head competition against World of Warcraft. Fact was, while both games did rather well, WoW had the budget, time and polish that EverQuest II did not. What's more, EQII was the first attempt at an MMO sequel, a mistake Smedley readily admits.

"In hindsight, I wish we could have had a do-over and not called it EverQuest II," he said frankly. "I doubt you will see us do that again."

taken from Warcry interview.

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Old 12-21-2007, 09:45 PM   #20
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Aurorum wrote:

(Not ANOTHER one! XoP)

-----

If these items alone were completed - and, indeed, the task might appear daunting - I would consider EQ2 to be the first third-generation MMORPG.

I'm with the OP on this, I still haven't seen a 3rd gen MMO, in fact: one doesn't exist. Third gen doesn't mean better graphics, better graphics are a given as equipment and available hardware improves.I would also dispute second gen, although I feel eq2 makes a good stab at it. LoTRO online sucks, once you get over running round middle-earth (took me about 5 hours for that novilty to wear off) it quickly develops into something boring. I had great hopes for Vanguard, and that seemed to go backwards during beta. I was attracted to the promises over combat and the monsters AI. Sadly it didn't happen. Maybe it will be worth a shot in a few months.I Like a lot of your ideas, but whilst games company resources are put into developing eye candy, true development with regards to AI and variety will be indifferent. After all, most people judge a game from its graphics, many I talk to say they are very important. Personally I'd settle for something like the original EQ Live zones with superb AI, tactics, and development. WOuld keep me interested for longer.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:49 PM   #21
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Guild run villages and towns.  Allow guilds to run villages and towns like a Barony, these would have there own simplified economics that need to be maintained. Also If the Guild lets the village/town fall into disrepair then it should be siezed back by the Ruler, and the chance of running it given to another guild. The guild that lost it would lose a lot of status with there ruler and would have to earn there way back up the ladder.

Monsters should not respawn! once there dead they are dead. If you clear out the den of orcs, they should not just re-appear there. Its possible that they may come back, but whose to say that some other creature doesn't setup shop in that lair. Also unchecked monster lairs should grow and expand there influence dynamically.

These are two bad ideas that I feel the need to address because I've mulled them over myself years before when I thought they were good ideas.

First of all, Guild-run villages and towns make no sense. To begin with this means your world has to be huge enough to the point that any number of guilds can make towns. If you did this then you may soon find yourself walking through a ghost town instead of a forest because, face it, no Guild is going to give up dungeon crawling to attend to n00bs around their town.

As for the monsters, if you stop and think about it for a while-- such a system would make quests undoable. For quests, at least in the traditional manner, to be done you need to have a reliable set of monsters that the NPC can send a player to kill. Furthermore, your system could potentially cause all of a particular type of mob to be totally eliminated from the world which would mean the work on the models and animation for it was for nothing-- plus, all references to the more important ones would have to somehow be eliminated from the game.

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Old 12-24-2007, 10:20 AM   #22
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
  • Guild run Mercantile endeavours - setting up shops, smitheys etc in guild run towns. Clearing trade routes, for caravans. Hiring other PC's for tasks!

Yea its called SWG and it sort of failed. 

  • Monsters should not respawn! once there dead they are dead. If you clear out the den of orcs, they should not just re-appear there. Its possible that they may come back, but whose to say that some other creature doesn't setup shop in that lair. Also unchecked monster lairs should grow and expand there influence dynamically.

Ummm What???   

  • Ships!!!

Umm no just more lag for people and stuff to be broken.

  • A new innovative combat system, perhaps based(only) on the DDO style, rather than button mashing.

No way in freakin hell.  DDO has the worse combat system. 

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Old 12-24-2007, 03:17 PM   #23
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Old 12-24-2007, 05:14 PM   #24
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

In my opinion if/when they do a third incarnation of EQ they should make it truly innovative and new when it comes to game features. EQ1 was ground breaking in its day. EQ2 was less groundbreaking but still good and worthy of the name.

Features I would like to see would be

  • A Truly massive scaled gameworld with realistic world mechanics, by that I mean a functioning changing political & economic world where the actions or inactions of players can shape the world
  • New improved AI system for creatures and NPC's .
  • A more detailed Faction/social system whereby you are treated differently depending on your behaviour towards NPC's.
  • Guild run villages and towns.  Allow guilds to run villages and towns like a Barony, these would have there own simplified economics that need to be maintained. Also If the Guild lets the village/town fall into disrepair then it should be siezed back by the Ruler, and the chance of running it given to another guild. The guild that lost it would lose a lot of status with there ruler and would have to earn there way back up the ladder.
  • Guild run Mercantile endeavours - setting up shops, smitheys etc in guild run towns. Clearing trade routes, for caravans. Hiring other PC's for tasks!
  • Monsters should not respawn! once there dead they are dead. If you clear out the den of orcs, they should not just re-appear there. Its possible that they may come back, but whose to say that some other creature doesn't setup shop in that lair. Also unchecked monster lairs should grow and expand there influence dynamically.
  • Ships!!!
  • A new innovative combat system, perhaps based(only) on the DDO style, rather than button mashing.
  • Magic system, allow the tweaking and thus creation of new spells by players. Also maybe a Tech tree   style approach to spells, depending on how well or often you use certain spell types.
  • Crafting. Allow crafted buildings, ships, also allow crafters to learn how to specialise and tweak certain items stats and change the colours where possible. Crafters should also be allowed to mend broken items and Salvage items for some raw components.

just a few ideas there. Some possibly beyond current technology I'm not sure.

I like your ideas. It's what I've always wnated...a game MADE by the players. Like the real world but you can attain power, and the featrues actually change due to people movement. This game is perfect...

But this game cannot exist under the title EQ2. It wimply would not work.

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Old 12-31-2007, 05:52 AM   #25
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Okay, first of all... I don't see why EverQuest still requires Zoning whenever you go anywhere. World of WarCraft is just as busy but you never hit a loading screen until you go into an Instance or change Continents. Even then the loading time is WAY better than that of EverQuest 2. However this system works, try to duplicate it. It will allow for a far more organic world than what we have now.

 Next, start the game off with more factions than EverQuest II did. Yes, having every race be in its own excluded city-- especially when there were so many races to begin with, was somewhat bad. It didn't give the designers enough space to make anything beautiful and interesting in many cases (the Ogre and Troll 'cities' is a good example) and in other cases it just led to a big, beautiful but ultimately deserted zone (Gnome city). However, when it came to shrinking everything into 2 cities, there were some problems. First, it was too much pressure to put on two points and these cities had to be made larger than the wilderness zones to accomidate the sheer bulk of content. If one has to ride a boat to get around to different sections of the city in order to stop from having to hit 4 loading screens, the city has been made too large. It has become overly inconvienent.

 As such, I think it would be best to break the races down into a number of factions rather than simply 'good' and 'evil'.So the races could be broken down somewhat like this:

Empire of FreeportImperials (No longer called "human&quotSMILEYHigh ElfDwarfGnome

Faydewer Refugees/KelethinWood ElfFae/ArsaiKerraHalfling

Wildlands Tribes/Ruins of QeynosBarbarianIcepaw GnollsFroglokHobgoblins/Lutin (Mage Goblins)

Alliance of NeriakDark ElfCrushbone OrcsTrollsRatonga

Forces of Kunark/Timorous DeepSarnakIksarOgreErudite

I know that some of these alliances might not make much sense, but the basic idea here is that each group would have a 'warrior', a 'priest', a 'mage' and a 'scout' type race although the entire group may lean more towards scout or warrior and some of those spots are filled with races that might seem more appropriate to a different one. Perhaps this could be mixed up better then, but the idea would be to take all the major races of the world (so tossing in  one tribe each of Orcs, Gnolls and Goblins in but ditching the Half Elves and merging the Arasai into the Fey) and aligning them to one of the 5 factions. As one adventures throughout the world instead of fighting forces of 'Chaos', they'd spend most of their adventuring fighting forces from other factions.

For the most part Freeport would fight with Neriak and Qeynos, Kelethin would fight with Kunark and Neriak, Qeynos would fight with Freeport and Kunarkm Neriak would fight with Freeport and Kelethin and Kunark would fight with Qeynos and Kelethin.

However, individual adventurers would be able to become friendly or antagonistic to the 2 other factions as they do quests and fight various groups in the world.Now, each of these faction names should ellict some sort of image of what the group as a whole would be like. For the most part, all of them would be convinced that they were the 'good' group in the world with the exception of Neriak who can still prattle on about how they enjoy being evil. Also, within each group there would be some sort of racial dynamic.

Examples of this would be for instance Neriak whose Queen would have made an alliance with the new Emporer of the Crushbone Orcs. So there would be sort of a rivalry as to which of them is the true leader of their faction, meanwhile the Ratonga are a slave race that is using that rivalry to get some semblance of power for themselves and the Trolls stay out of the politics and are happy to just be pointed in a direction and told to smash stuff.

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Old 12-31-2007, 11:03 AM   #26
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Hebitsuikaza wrote:

Okay, first of all... I don't see why EverQuest still requires Zoning whenever you go anywhere. World of WarCraft is just as busy but you never hit a loading screen until you go into an Instance or change Continents. Even then the loading time is WAY better than that of EverQuest 2. However this system works, try to duplicate it. It will allow for a far more organic world than what we have now.

 Next, start the game off with more factions than EverQuest II did. Yes, having every race be in its own excluded city-- especially when there were so many races to begin with, was somewhat bad. It didn't give the designers enough space to make anything beautiful and interesting in many cases (the Ogre and Troll 'cities' is a good example) and in other cases it just led to a big, beautiful but ultimately deserted zone (Gnome city). However, when it came to shrinking everything into 2 cities, there were some problems. First, it was too much pressure to put on two points and these cities had to be made larger than the wilderness zones to accomidate the sheer bulk of content. If one has to ride a boat to get around to different sections of the city in order to stop from having to hit 4 loading screens, the city has been made too large. It has become overly inconvienent.

 As such, I think it would be best to break the races down into a number of factions rather than simply 'good' and 'evil'.So the races could be broken down somewhat like this:

Empire of FreeportImperials (No longer called "human"SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />High ElfDwarfGnome

Faydewer Refugees/KelethinWood ElfFae/ArsaiKerraHalfling

Wildlands Tribes/Ruins of QeynosBarbarianIcepaw GnollsFroglokHobgoblins/Lutin (Mage Goblins)

Alliance of NeriakDark ElfCrushbone OrcsTrollsRatonga

Forces of Kunark/Timorous DeepSarnakIksarOgreErudite

I know that some of these alliances might not make much sense, but the basic idea here is that each group would have a 'warrior', a 'priest', a 'mage' and a 'scout' type race although the entire group may lean more towards scout or warrior and some of those spots are filled with races that might seem more appropriate to a different one. Perhaps this could be mixed up better then, but the idea would be to take all the major races of the world (so tossing in  one tribe each of Orcs, Gnolls and Goblins in but ditching the Half Elves and merging the Arasai into the Fey) and aligning them to one of the 5 factions. As one adventures throughout the world instead of fighting forces of 'Chaos', they'd spend most of their adventuring fighting forces from other factions.

For the most part Freeport would fight with Neriak and Qeynos, Kelethin would fight with Kunark and Neriak, Qeynos would fight with Freeport and Kunarkm Neriak would fight with Freeport and Kelethin and Kunark would fight with Qeynos and Kelethin.

However, individual adventurers would be able to become friendly or antagonistic to the 2 other factions as they do quests and fight various groups in the world.Now, each of these faction names should ellict some sort of image of what the group as a whole would be like. For the most part, all of them would be convinced that they were the 'good' group in the world with the exception of Neriak who can still prattle on about how they enjoy being evil. Also, within each group there would be some sort of racial dynamic.

Examples of this would be for instance Neriak whose Queen would have made an alliance with the new Emporer of the Crushbone Orcs. So there would be sort of a rivalry as to which of them is the true leader of their faction, meanwhile the Ratonga are a slave race that is using that rivalry to get some semblance of power for themselves and the Trolls stay out of the politics and are happy to just be pointed in a direction and told to smash stuff.

Um ok. The next Eq should have less zoneing. I totaly agree with you there. Eveyrthing else you said I prety much don't agree with and makes no sence at all from a lore perspective. In eq1 every race had there own city and only certian citys would alow other races in based on there alignment unless they worked up factoin. All of your sugested aliances and factoins dont make sence. i konw your compensateing for eq2 not haveing many starting factions. I do agree that it was a bad idea to only start with two. And they talked about this whole strugle thing between the two citys that hasnt even been worked on much in the story and now we have  3  other citys. If anything. EQ3 would need to be another demention of the eq univers one more like EQ1. Where the contenants are whole much much biger then they are in eq2 and set them up for less zoneing and give EVERY race its home city. Dont inclued all the races we have now at launch because then you have to start pulling crapy races out of your [Removed for Content]. The Asarai what a joke. They same as the fay just more emo with differnt coloration.
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:06 PM   #27
Hebitsuikaza

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Deadrus wrote:
Um ok. The next Eq should have less zoneing. I totaly agree with you there. Eveyrthing else you said I prety much don't agree with and makes no sence at all from a lore perspective. In eq1 every race had there own city and only certian citys would alow other races in based on there alignment unless they worked up factoin. All of your sugested aliances and factoins dont make sence. i konw your compensateing for eq2 not haveing many starting factions. I do agree that it was a bad idea to only start with two. And they talked about this whole strugle thing between the two citys that hasnt even been worked on much in the story and now we have  3  other citys. If anything. EQ3 would need to be another demention of the eq univers one more like EQ1. Where the contenants are whole much much biger then they are in eq2 and set them up for less zoneing and give EVERY race its home city. Dont inclued all the races we have now at launch because then you have to start pulling crapy races out of your [I cannot control my vocabulary]. The Asarai what a joke. They same as the fay just more emo with differnt coloration.

I am not certain exactly how my factions wouldn't make sense, but I am hardly an expert. I just pulled together what I knew from EQ1 and have seen so far in EQ2 (I admittedly haven't played it much yet).

The new races in EverQuest II are rather... "creative" in a problematic way. There are good reasons why 2' tall things with wings were never considered terribly viable as a race to begin with. The compensations they had to make along the way to get them to work coupled with the fact that they felt it was necessary to make a 'good' and an 'evil' version of this race makes it seem not nearly as cool as the advertisers clearly mean for it to be.

And the Sarnak? Lets see, a reptillian race with its own empire on Kunark that is antagonistic to everyone else?...Uh.. so basically... its just the Iksar Redux. It just doesn't feel as though they stand apart from Iksar enough to make them worth the trouble. It is more like 'this is how we should have remade Iksar at launch, but we couldn't and so here is a new race that takes their old role'.

Moreover, as I have said before, Kobolds, Gnolls, Goblins and Orcs really have a LOT more charisma and appeal than a lot of the half-[Removed for Content] excuses for races we have running around in the game. The whole idea that there are systems in place that prevent ANY version of these races from being played is incredibly troublesome.

Of course, then you hit the problem of what races to eliminate, at least at launch. My initial suggestions here were the Arasai who are pretty much the same thing as Fey and may as well just be the members of the darker classes of that race and the Half-Elves who are well... why exactly does anyone need a Half-Human race to begin with?... It is pointless.

Another one that seems worth thinking about is the Halfling and the Gnome. We have two races here who are pretty much just 'short humans', but at least the Gnome has its whole high technology aspect that can set them distinctly apart. I guess the Halflings are supposed to be both small and a bit more roguish, but they just aren't a seperate enough thing to make them worthwhile in their current form. In the above set up I tried to stick them into the team with the forest-dwellers and that could be used as a springboard to give them some new updated themes that would let them be their own thing, but well... it might not work.

And then there is the problem of having three human races and calling one Human and giving uninspired names to the other two human races. Either call none of them human and set them up to be on different sides of your war or merge them into a single race.

However, you are ultimately right that the world of Norrath has been trashed so much in EverQuest II that it is better to set a new game in an alternate timeline rather than continue the one that been set up. It is just difficult to see Norrath recovering to an explorable state without millions of years passing...

At the same time though, I think you are wrong in stating that every race needs to have its own unique starting city. Somewhere between three to five major cities at launch should be plenty to cover everything. The more cities exist, the less time is going to be spent on crafting each city and the more space in the world those cities are going to take up. The more space in the world that the cities take up, the less space there will be for wilderness to explore and, moreover, the more space is going to be used up for low-level quests so that mid and high level quests will be relegated to much smaller patches of land than the beginning level quests. While this may make sense for the first four or so months when you get that initial rush of tons of low-levels, after a while (assuming your fanbase is loyal) you end up with a lot of high level characters with nothing to do and the low-level zones become deserted.

Anyway, if you can find a way to cut the number of races from 20 to 12 while making sure to include those that have been sadly neglected since the launch of the first game AND you can figure out how to arrange these races into 3-4 nicely themed city factions into a new world that can still include the important copyrighted names like "Qeynos", "Freeport", "Neriak", "Kunark", "Faydewer", "Innorukk", "Rallos Zek", etc... and make sure you aren't creating factions that include all of the super popular races and others that have races that almost no one plays... then by all means propose a plan.

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Old 12-31-2007, 08:38 PM   #28
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Hebitsuikaza wrote:
Deadrus wrote:
Um ok. The next Eq should have less zoneing. I totaly agree with you there. Eveyrthing else you said I prety much don't agree with and makes no sence at all from a lore perspective. In eq1 every race had there own city and only certian citys would alow other races in based on there alignment unless they worked up factoin. All of your sugested aliances and factoins dont make sence. i konw your compensateing for eq2 not haveing many starting factions. I do agree that it was a bad idea to only start with two. And they talked about this whole strugle thing between the two citys that hasnt even been worked on much in the story and now we have  3  other citys. If anything. EQ3 would need to be another demention of the eq univers one more like EQ1. Where the contenants are whole much much biger then they are in eq2 and set them up for less zoneing and give EVERY race its home city. Dont inclued all the races we have now at launch because then you have to start pulling crapy races out of your [I cannot control my vocabulary]. The Asarai what a joke. They same as the fay just more emo with differnt coloration.

I am not certain exactly how my factions wouldn't make sense, but I am hardly an expert. I just pulled together what I knew from EQ1 and have seen so far in EQ2 (I admittedly haven't played it much yet).

The new races in EverQuest II are rather... "creative" in a problematic way. There are good reasons why 2' tall things with wings were never considered terribly viable as a race to begin with. The compensations they had to make along the way to get them to work coupled with the fact that they felt it was necessary to make a 'good' and an 'evil' version of this race makes it seem not nearly as cool as the advertisers clearly mean for it to be.

And the Sarnak? Lets see, a reptillian race with its own empire on Kunark that is antagonistic to everyone else?...Uh.. so basically... its just the Iksar Redux. It just doesn't feel as though they stand apart from Iksar enough to make them worth the trouble. It is more like 'this is how we should have remade Iksar at launch, but we couldn't and so here is a new race that takes their old role'.

Moreover, as I have said before, Kobolds, Gnolls, Goblins and Orcs really have a LOT more charisma and appeal than a lot of the half-[Removed for Content] excuses for races we have running around in the game. The whole idea that there are systems in place that prevent ANY version of these races from being played is incredibly troublesome.

Of course, then you hit the problem of what races to eliminate, at least at launch. My initial suggestions here were the Arasai who are pretty much the same thing as Fey and may as well just be the members of the darker classes of that race and the Half-Elves who are well... why exactly does anyone need a Half-Human race to begin with?... It is pointless.

Another one that seems worth thinking about is the Halfling and the Gnome. We have two races here who are pretty much just 'short humans', but at least the Gnome has its whole high technology aspect that can set them distinctly apart. I guess the Halflings are supposed to be both small and a bit more roguish, but they just aren't a seperate enough thing to make them worthwhile in their current form. In the above set up I tried to stick them into the team with the forest-dwellers and that could be used as a springboard to give them some new updated themes that would let them be their own thing, but well... it might not work.

And then there is the problem of having three human races and calling one Human and giving uninspired names to the other two human races. Either call none of them human and set them up to be on different sides of your war or merge them into a single race.

However, you are ultimately right that the world of Norrath has been trashed so much in EverQuest II that it is better to set a new game in an alternate timeline rather than continue the one that been set up. It is just difficult to see Norrath recovering to an explorable state without millions of years passing...

At the same time though, I think you are wrong in stating that every race needs to have its own unique starting city. Somewhere between three to five major cities at launch should be plenty to cover everything. The more cities exist, the less time is going to be spent on crafting each city and the more space in the world those cities are going to take up. The more space in the world that the cities take up, the less space there will be for wilderness to explore and, moreover, the more space is going to be used up for low-level quests so that mid and high level quests will be relegated to much smaller patches of land than the beginning level quests. While this may make sense for the first four or so months when you get that initial rush of tons of low-levels, after a while (assuming your fanbase is loyal) you end up with a lot of high level characters with nothing to do and the low-level zones become deserted.

Anyway, if you can find a way to cut the number of races from 20 to 12 while making sure to include those that have been sadly neglected since the launch of the first game AND you can figure out how to arrange these races into 3-4 nicely themed city factions into a new world that can still include the important copyrighted names like "Qeynos", "Freeport", "Neriak", "Kunark", "Faydewer", "Innorukk", "Rallos Zek", etc... and make sure you aren't creating factions that include all of the super popular races and others that have races that almost no one plays... then by all means propose a plan.

Wow, that post was a wall of crap-talk. ou forgot that each race ha sits own creator and therefore you can't just say they are useless. Gnomes and Halflings are not just short Humans. Sarnak= Stupid...yes I agree with you here. 1) They hate the Iksar, yet they're evil and fight laong-side them? 2) Where did they come from? The Lore for them is horrible.

The Fae I grew to like...at first I thought they were stupid because they were never there, and then EQ2 shoved them into the Lore and made it seem they were there forever. I wish Kelethin had more Wood Elves because the Fae ruling is just sooo over-rated in Lore terms....but it was a VERY good race to create int he end. One worth keeping.

Arasai? Torchered Fae to keep the evil people happy. Would anyone have died without them? Dark Elves would much rather live in Neriak with other Dak Elves...even if the Arasai are their servants. -_-

I'm no expert either...but I think you need to read some serious Lore then repost this. Almost everything you said did not make sense to me.

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Old 01-01-2008, 06:07 AM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:
Don't get your hopes up:Smedley:

"[We're] refocusing SOE on high quality and not rushing releases," said of his coming crop of games. They learned many valuable lessons from EverQuest II and its head-to-head competition against World of Warcraft. Fact was, while both games did rather well, WoW had the budget, time and polish that EverQuest II did not. What's more, EQII was the first attempt at an MMO sequel, a mistake Smedley readily admits.

"In hindsight, I wish we could have had a do-over and not called it EverQuest II," he said frankly. "I doubt you will see us do that again."

taken from Warcry interview.

Clueless Smedley at his best. Yup, big problem was calling it EQ2. It was just the perfect game other wise. We could have called it Wobblequest, it would have sold millions. Smedley got burned plain and simple. After years of having the EQ cash cow that sold no matter how poorly it was supported or developed, he tried to get away with the same thing again and it bit him in the [Removed for Content].

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Old 01-01-2008, 06:35 AM   #30
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Qandor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
Don't get your hopes up:Smedley:

"[We're] refocusing SOE on high quality and not rushing releases," said of his coming crop of games. They learned many valuable lessons from EverQuest II and its head-to-head competition against World of Warcraft. Fact was, while both games did rather well, WoW had the budget, time and polish that EverQuest II did not. What's more, EQII was the first attempt at an MMO sequel, a mistake Smedley readily admits.

"In hindsight, I wish we could have had a do-over and not called it EverQuest II," he said frankly. "I doubt you will see us do that again."

taken from Warcry interview.

Clueless Smedley at his best. Yup, big problem was calling it EQ2. It was just the perfect game other wise. We could have called it Wobblequest, it would have sold millions. Smedley got burned plain and simple. After years of having the EQ cash cow that sold no matter how poorly it was supported or developed, he tried to get away with the same thing again and it bit him in the [I cannot control my vocabulary].

LOL and on page 2 of that interview...

"It was called a sequel, but in reality it was a different game set in the same world, just in the future."

So does that mean EverQuest fans don't have anything more to expect in the MMO genre? Not at all. Smedley told us that they fully intend to do another EverQuest MMO. "One day in the future, but not sure what point. No one's actually working on it," he said carefully.

I don't think he believes the name alone would have fixed everything. People came into the game with certain expectations based on the name "EverQuest 2". It could have been called "The MMO With No Name" but would the formula still have worked? The devs sounded rather narrow-minded in the beginning on what type of game they wanted. I don't believe they were ready or even wanted to meet the demand of fans interested in a game just because it was called "EverQuest 2". At least until EoF was released. It seems they stopped fighting at this point and finally gave in to what people thought "EverQuest 2" provided. Maybe Smedley thinks they could have gotten away with more if the game had been called something else. I'm still not sure what their vision was pre-EoF. The name just confused everyone apparently, including the devs.

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