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Old 10-19-2011, 06:23 PM   #31
Ruut Li

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Davler wrote:

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Davler wrote:

Thanks for your responses.

As most would agree, there are many subjective things about EQ2. To me, this is one. As I said in my origional post, IMO the imbalance is minor but does exist.

That said - It's intersting how many lock's responded saying there is no imbalance. And, I do know how to play my class - I confirm that nearly every time I group with another wizzy.

If you are getting outparsed by illies then you do not know how to play the class very well. Just because there is an imbalance between PB and hailstorm means nothing, the classes are balanced as close as they have been in many years. You should be beating locks on single target, and holding your own on 2-3 target encounters, beyond that a warlock should beat you that is a major difference between the classes and if you do not know that then you do not know your class very well, and even know less about warlocks.

Your original posts says it all "Wizzy's used to be too powerful; now... no." In the past you were able to faceroll yourself to the top of the parse, wizzys have not been nerfed in any kind of way, only enhanced and immunity was removed from manaburn so it has been 'tweaked'.

If you couldn't figure it out I have a lock and raid on it regularly, depending on the situation one is more powerful than the other, but that does not mean there is an imbalance, not in the least.

I shouldnt have really gone into Illy's too much as I have not personally evaluated that - so for now, I will stike that comment. After I have a chance to do a better evaluation I will revisit. This was really based on feedback from others, and comparing some very high end Illy's.

Beating locks on short single encounters, no problem. However, regardless of the number of mobs, a lock will outparse a wizzzy on long encounters. This is because of PB.

Jeff, saying that wizzy's havent been nerfed doesnt cover it. Locks' have received some significant improvements, most of which I agree were needed. My point is, that with those improvemets they have created a slight imbalance.

rofl no. um i mean im a terribad lock. you are not possibly in need of improvement at all...lol.

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Old 10-19-2011, 08:11 PM   #32
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poster boy of dps?    hardly.   maybe poster boys of casters.....maybe if I had a focused casting buff...

no mage compares to a predator right now with the way auto attack works atm.  Our ranger parses higher than any assassin I am aware of.   Welcome to meleequest.

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Old 10-19-2011, 08:58 PM   #33
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maybe i shouldnt generalize.  what i mean above is from my experience as a raid wizard for 6 yrs.   Maybe I only looked good back in the day b/c I was so amazingly overpowered.   Im only one wizard.

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Old 10-20-2011, 06:11 AM   #34
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[email protected] wrote:

poster boy of dps?    hardly.   maybe poster boys of casters.....maybe if I had a focused casting buff...

no mage compares to a predator right now with the way auto attack works atm.  Our ranger parses higher than any assassin I am aware of.   Welcome to meleequest.

sorry, I had in mind: poster boy of glass cannon dps. Imo thats the impression ppl around me still have, and its been like that for ages. Preds are in a totally different league.

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Old 10-20-2011, 06:47 AM   #35
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With all those high numbers are floating around, i must be a really bad wizard.

No HM Gear, just EM and my normal DPS ranges about 120-150k on Single Trashmobs.With Multiencounter, like the one before taltaak, i manage to slam 100 more on top of it.(No Spike Damage - thats an average value).

But maybe i should do a Parse run, gotten lazy the last few runs; another Kray EMzonewide should do the trick.

When i see our (lesser equipped) Warlock, Conj and Necro rule the Parse AND sometimesthe Brigant comes in and hands our behinds to us...

I do what most here did, give my personal Opinion:

Single Encounter: Equally geared Wizard / Assassin (50:50) should top it. Situational the one can be betterthan the other, but the rule should be, they should play definitely in the same League,with rangers and warlocks competing for place 3+4 (and 1+2, if the former are slacking).Multi Encounter:Same, but with Warlocks and Rangers. Place 1+2 (or 3+4 if they are slacking and a reallygood Assa / Wiz are in.)

I don't know where Conj & Necro would fit in there, there was a Post about DPS Tierslooooooong ago (few years) but this is outdated, so i don't know.

There was a time when the Classes weren't balanced around raid content, but about theirSingle Playability, but it seems that every class today just wants to do more DPS on Raids.

Regards, theriatis.

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Old 10-20-2011, 03:59 PM   #36
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Sorcerers and Predators could be competitive on harder content if Sorcerers could joust (and cast while running!) and/or stay in melee range.

I have no problem keeping up with predators and rogues on mobs I can be in melee range of (tclap, melee, venemous runes, cataclysm, bod usable). For wizards it's even worse because they also have fusion.

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Old 10-21-2011, 01:08 AM   #37
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Its funny seeing wizzies cry after being so far ahead of locks for so long. Warlocks needed a lot of love to become viable sorcs. It used to be that if there wasn't a ton of linked mobs, there really was no point in having a lock. I still don't see locks out parsing wizzies unless the wizzies are just not as skilled at their class. And lol to any wizzie that lobbies for focused casting... 

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Old 10-21-2011, 07:27 AM   #38
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lolpet, please explain yourself further.   The gist of your post seems to be "wizards were as easymode as predators are now for much of the past of this game.  Because of this they should never be on top again"   Also , it seems that something is funny about lobbying for a focused casting.   Why dont you tell me whats so funny, exactly?

Your attempt at humor fails me.  I would ask you to add something relevant to the discussion, or stay out of it.

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Old 10-21-2011, 11:13 AM   #39
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not saying wizards are easy mode. just sayin' that they are balanced well w/ locks now and usually out-parse locks on single target burn fights, as it should be. giving a wizard focused casting would make things totally unbalanced again. that's pretty obvious to anyone and that's what's so funny about a wizard asking for focused casting. it's completely transparent that you just want to be totally OP.

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Old 10-21-2011, 11:27 AM   #40
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[email protected] wrote:

Also , it seems that something is funny about lobbying for a focused casting.   Why dont you tell me whats so funny, exactly?

Well when you look at what a joke the Warlock mythical is, then take Acid storm, Dark Aggravation and Rift vs the wizzy counterparts those needed some serious boosting or tweaking or something else done. Focused casting has a 5 min base recast time for the purposes here we will just assume that reuse is capped so we are working with 150 seconds of reuse with a spell that gives 10 secs of SDA which equivalates to a 15% chance. This might appear to have an edge over the 10% from the wizzy mythical but when you take cast time and recovery into account that pretty much gobbles up the extra 5% and when buffed with TC enhanced by Chronomagic that gives the Wizzys a TRUE 15% with mythical buff.

If Wizzys were to get Focused Casting it would pretty much negate the balance that was done with FC. It wouldn't give a true 10% (adjusted for casting/recovery) boost to wizzys SDA and I'm not exactly sure how to calculate what the adjusted value would be to the 15% that a wizzy has with TC+myth, I guess it would be in the range of 2%.

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Old 10-21-2011, 12:10 PM   #41
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Also , it seems that something is funny about lobbying for a focused casting.   Why dont you tell me whats so funny, exactly?

Well when you look at what a joke the Warlock mythical is, then take Acid storm, Dark Aggravation and Rift vs the wizzy counterparts those needed some serious boosting or tweaking or something else done. Focused casting has a 5 min base recast time for the purposes here we will just assume that reuse is capped so we are working with 150 seconds of reuse with a spell that gives 10 secs of SDA which equivalates to a 15% chance. This might appear to have an edge over the 10% from the wizzy mythical but when you take cast time and recovery into account that pretty much gobbles up the extra 5% and when buffed with TC enhanced by Chronomagic that gives the Wizzys a TRUE 15% with mythical buff.

If Wizzys were to get Focused Casting it would pretty much negate the balance that was done with FC. It wouldn't give a true 10% (adjusted for casting/recovery) boost to wizzys SDA and I'm not exactly sure how to calculate what the adjusted value would be to the 15% that a wizzy has with TC+myth, I guess it would be in the range of 2%.

Except Warlocks get to cherry pick their best spells, like Plaguebringer, for their SDA while Wizards are left at the mercy of the random number generator.  Being able to pick which spells SDA like that is HUGE.

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Old 10-21-2011, 12:29 PM   #42
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Fendaria wrote:

Except Warlocks get to cherry pick their best spells, like Plaguebringer, for their SDA while Wizards are left at the mercy of the random number generator.  Being able to pick which spells SDA like that is HUGE.

This is true, which brings us back to Acid Storm, DA etc. and a STATIC 15% SDA 100% of the time. We also can not exactly 'cherry pick' 100% of the time with FC, because of TW etc things may not be up at the right times, the wizard really suffers no penalty for casting anything during a TW and while warlocks still get the same benefit from TW FC loses some overall effectiveness.

I've looked at the special attacks report in ACT on me and our wizzy in raids and I see nothing anymore special about or 10 secs 100% SDA vs the wizzy with the 15% static, full disclosure would say I should mention that he has all 3 EM set bonuses, but since I do as well these should cancel each other out.

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Old 10-21-2011, 12:35 PM   #43
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eh, comparing individual abilities is rather pointless.  all that matters is the end result, not the road to get there, and I'd say Warlocks and Wizards are pretty well balanced from a DPS comparison, more so than they have been for a quite a long time.   Yes, a few Warlock abilities are better than wizard counterparts.  But /gasp quite a few Wizard abilities are better than warlock counterparts!  Imagine that!  heh.

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Old 10-21-2011, 12:41 PM   #44
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Yes they are as balanced as they have been in quite some time and nothing needs to be done to either at the moment.

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Old 10-21-2011, 12:51 PM   #45
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Its pretty simple.

Without FC we would get destroyed by Wiz all the time on AOE fights and single target fights.

Just nothing we could do to keep up with all of their AOE stuff doubling when our wasnt, it was much needed.

Does it give us an extra edge? probably, because like it was mentioned, its super nice to have complete control over which spells double and when, but honestly Id rather have a flat 24% SDA passive all the time, than a few seconds of a 100% every few mins that roots me. Its a tradeoff, but it seems to balance the classes very well in comparison.

Its good that Arch classes have things the other wants, it shows balance, its not perfect but these 2 classes have never been more balanced than they are currently today.

I wont take credit for it, but I cant say Im not thrilled that when I /feedbacked a suggestion changing FC to give SDA over a year ago, I would have never believed they would have actually done it nore make it a full 100%. Apparently I wasnt the only one who may have requested that....

Another thing too, as more SDA is givin out, FC over all power is reduced. Whats the point in 100% for a few sec ever few min when you might have 50% passively all the time, by this time next year?  Since SDA is capped at 100% currently and most likely forever, this future is much brighter for the wizzys out there, than the locks.

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Old 10-22-2011, 05:39 AM   #46
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Warlock myth proc is awesome.

Also, I cherry pick which spells go into TWs. How is it left up to the random number generator?

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