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Old 05-23-2012, 02:17 PM   #1
Talathion
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It would make the game better/healthier, Please.

Infact, add a bonus for XP for grouping with non-mercenarys.

Keep the decreased XP penalty for mercenarys though.

All the XP Penalty does is keep people from wanting to group with others at non-end-game-content.

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #2
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I couldn't agree more.  I still can't believe that a lvl 92, 320 AA character still cuts into the xp, it's just stupid.

I feel so bad turning down guildies and friends to join my power leveling, but it increases my PL time way to much.  

With it removed and and even a bonus thrown in, there would be people looking for and creating new leveling groups all the time.  

I doubt it will ever happen, as it would require a massive rework of all mobs XP.  But I will definitely not be playing any game that split xp like this again.

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #3
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Neonblue wrote:

I doubt it will ever happen, as it would require a massive rework of all mobs XP.  But I will definitely not be playing any game that split xp like this again.

It doesn't require changing anything on the mob, just how the xp is rewarded after the mob is killed.

It should be simply one function/class/method to update

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:40 PM   #4
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[email protected] wrote:

Neonblue wrote:

I doubt it will ever happen, as it would require a massive rework of all mobs XP.  But I will definitely not be playing any game that split xp like this again.

It doesn't require changing anything on the mob, just how the xp is rewarded after the mob is killed.

It should be simply one function/class/method to update

I have been making this point for a while now.Compared to days gone, we now tend to spend a lot more on "moving from A to B", and less time "actually killing the mobs". This is because, even when in level appropriate gear, the stats a player has is far beyond what was relevant to the content they are working on. This significantly reduces the value in filling up a group, even more so with mentoring being so powerful.Mentoring is not the actual problem, but mentoring is a feature of EQ2 which amplifies the discrepancy. For example, if I am mentored down to help a friend level, and some random asks if they can join... I could let them join the group, and what happens? We will not kill mobs any faster. We will not move between encounters faster. They will reduce the EXP my friend gets by about 25%. Ouch... No thanks!We should not be punished for kind deeds. The system should be designed so that solo play is feasible, but grouping with actual genuine players is always the superior choice, no matter at what level, regardless of mentoring or not. It's an MMO, people should want to group when ever possible.The EXP penalties for grouping should be reviewed.

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:53 PM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

I have been making this point for a while now.Compared to days gone, we now tend to spend a lot more on "moving from A to B", and less time "actually killing the mobs". This is because, even when in level appropriate gear, the stats a player has is far beyond what was relevant to the content they are working on. This significantly reduces the value in filling up a group, even more so with mentoring being so powerful.Mentoring is not the actual problem, but mentoring is a feature of EQ2 which amplifies the discrepancy. For example, if I am mentored down to help a friend level, and some random asks if they can join... I could let them join the group, and what happens? We will not kill mobs any faster. We will not move between encounters faster. They will reduce the EXP my friend gets by about 25%. Ouch... No thanks!We should not be punished for kind deeds. The system should be designed so that solo play is feasible, but grouping with actual genuine players is always the superior choice, no matter at what level, regardless of mentoring or not. It's an MMO, people should want to group when ever possible.The EXP penalties for grouping should be reviewed.

Correct, they seemed to think adding more people = more kills in the same amount of time.  It isn't true the way most of the content is in game.  If its any faster, it is so marginally small that it isn't relevant and certainly doesn't warrant the extra /split in the rewards per kill.

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Old 05-23-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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one of my steadfast rules is I group for fun, gear, quest completion, etc.  Never for XP.  It could be the exception rather than the norm and it can be class specific to some degree, but grouping for the sole intent to gain XP can get in the way of the enjoyment of the group or the adventure of the instance. 

Generally, outside of raiding I don't group for gear either.  Gear comes in just like XP; over time.  the more time input the more gear / XP you gain as output.  Using the group as a tool for personal gain tends to make people a lot more critical of slower weaker or unknowledgable people and leads to exclusion.

IDK why everyone thinks the only way to gain XP or AA is to AE grind with uber raid-geared AE fighters.  There are 100's of ways to gain very good XP our there without that methodology.  When you do find some friends, enjoy the group.  When you find yourself needing XP then go and get it (out of the way) so you can enjoy groups with your friends.

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Old 05-23-2012, 04:25 PM   #7
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Koleg, I think the desire for this change is centered around giving more opportunities for players to participate in and learn cooperative playstyle in game before max level.

Certainly I don't disagree with your sentiments, but I fell like a jerk when I'm pwning an entire dungeon and some duo pair is getting over-run by my pwn-train.  I think it sucks the game motivates me not to invite those 2 along, but instead strongly inforces I should just keep on running over them.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #8
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At least remove the penalty in older zones.   Working to get 280 AA so I can advance past 90 is a long road (for some classes) through a very lonely place.  I see lots of people doing the same thing as me (soloing old heroic content) in the same area, but no one will group because I'll only slow them down through their AA grind.  I don't mind the 280AA barrier to advance past 90, but it would be nice to do it with someone else (without slowing them down) instead of all alone.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:12 PM   #9
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Agree, make grouping more desirable pre end game
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:17 PM   #10
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Funny how EQ II was made so much easier since launch to solo, yet grouping exp wasn't copied like EQ I.

It seems they want EQ I to be the social group game, whereas EQ II is only group for max level heroic instances game.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:25 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

  I think it sucks the game motivates me not to invite those 2 along, but instead strongly inforces I should just keep on running over them.

At the heart of all this:  A game that allows the solo player to stay solo longer makes more money then a game that requires more grouping.

Look at all the XP potions(thier best sellers) on the market place. There is an army of solo players eating them up.

If grouping started giving you an exp pop   ....... market place sales on potions would drop overnight.

$OE will not let this happen.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:28 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

Koleg, I think the desire for this change is centered around giving more opportunities for players to participate in and learn cooperative playstyle in game before max level.

Certainly I don't disagree with your sentiments, but I fell like a jerk when I'm pwning an entire dungeon and some duo pair is getting over-run by my pwn-train.  I think it sucks the game motivates me not to invite those 2 along, but instead strongly inforces I should just keep on running over them.

Exactly.

Removing the group xp penalty is LONG overdue. If you want the game to be social (which you should, that's what most people still expect with an MMO) & grouping to stay alive the penalty really needs to go.

There's currently zero motivation in the current game for pre-90 players to group at all. Almost all the content (sans raids) can be done with a merc for at least some classes and adding one more real player cinches it for the rest of them. Many classes can do stuff truly solo.

Give grouping an xp bonus, give grouping an AA bonus too while you are at it (so people will quit complaining about the 280 cap before leveling to 92).

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:35 PM   #13
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I agree with this, any group should receive bonus xp. It is a Massively Multiplayer game, the accent being on Massive ...

Make it happen SOE, this is loooooong overdue.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:54 PM   #14
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Coffee_Hound wrote:

At least remove the penalty in older zones.   Working to get 280 AA so I can advance past 90 is a long road (for some classes) through a very lonely place.  I see lots of people doing the same thing as me (soloing old heroic content) in the same area, but no one will group because I'll only slow them down through their AA grind.  I don't mind the 280AA barrier to advance past 90, but it would be nice to do it with someone else (without slowing them down) instead of all alone.

???  I had 320AAs, but I did the older zones from 90 to 92 because the xp is way, way better & faster. 

It's kind of tangential to the grouping complaint.  But this new GU is the oddest thing ever.  Folks scatter to the old expansions to grind their levels out.  Then they start churning through old DoV to get shards.  I would have thought new content means playing new content.  Maybe that's just me.  ...I've never understood why the newest content has to have the worst xp.  sdrawkcabssa

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Old 05-23-2012, 11:20 PM   #15
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Yes please cause it would encourage grouping again in the game.  Even add 1 or 2% exp bonus to it or not.  But at least remove the penalty.

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Old 05-24-2012, 05:53 AM   #16
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Grouping in EQ2 is hugely disincentivized from quests that have single updates, to group XP splits. Please fix and encourage grouping! SMILEY

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Old 05-24-2012, 08:47 AM   #17
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remove the group penalty. Let all quests update for the entire group. Please help grouping at all levels

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Old 05-24-2012, 09:19 AM   #18
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feldon30 wrote:

Grouping in EQ2 is hugely disincentivized from quests that have single updates, to group XP splits. Please fix and encourage grouping!

Quest 'lines' were a horri-bad idea as well, "since you aren't on my step we can't really group because i need x and you need y and we can't share these quests.  i can group with you and get you yours but then you will probably log, and i only have an hour and ahalf to work on mine. oh well maybe next time"

Except for Heritage/Signatures/Major things, but they should have colossol xp rewards.

I also think adding Hell Levels at this point was not well thought out.

Now that I figured out that my main problem was trying to quest and group for XP, and moloing Seb is the fastest way to level, I am leveling fine.

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Old 05-24-2012, 09:34 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

 I think it sucks the game motivates me not to invite those 2 along, but instead strongly inforces I should just keep on running over them.

Soooooo this.

I am generally helpful by nature, but if I am somewhere running specifically for exp (ADV or AA), the exp penalty is simply too large to justify inviting others.

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Old 05-24-2012, 09:56 AM   #20
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

Grouping in EQ2 is hugely disincentivized from quests that have single updates, to group XP splits. Please fix and encourage grouping!

Quest 'lines' were a horri-bad idea as well, "since you aren't on my step we can't really group because i need x and you need y and we can't share these quests.  i can group with you and get you yours but then you will probably log, and i only have an hour and ahalf to work on mine. oh well maybe next time"

Except for Heritage/Signatures/Major things, but they should have colossol xp rewards.

I also think adding Hell Levels at this point was not well thought out.

Now that I figured out that my main problem was trying to quest and group for XP, and moloing Seb is the fastest way to level, I am leveling fine.

Hell levels ? What's a hell level ?

As for leveling places, there are many in the game where the xp is great, but smart people are not going to share them on the forums

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Old 05-24-2012, 10:34 AM   #21
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DamselInDistress wrote:

Hell levels ? What's a hell level ?

It is a throwback term to EQ1 where there were certain levels that took a LOT longer than either the level before or the level after.

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Old 05-24-2012, 10:40 AM   #22
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Raknid wrote:

DamselInDistress wrote:

Hell levels ? What's a hell level ?

It is a throwback term to EQ1 where there were certain levels that took a LOT longer than either the level before or the level after.

If he's talking about 91 and 92, those are not that bad. The access quests alone will take you close to 92 and if I want to grind i can do 90-92 in 2 hours. 

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:21 AM   #23
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The only grouping SOE wants you to do is with the Market Place. With no incentive to group, it keeps you playing solo, which in turn drives you to the market place to maximize your solo play.

Not 1 byte of information will be added to this game without first knowing it's impact on market place sales.

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #24
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Agree or disagree but you got to see the whole idea here, they did that so you would spend more money on this game. If people would not use the market place so much, and kill the profit they make off spawning items, then more than likely they would have 0 choice but to bring things back the way they used to be, but as of right now people just spend money in the market place all the time, so it's profit over players.

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:30 AM   #25
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agnott wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

  I think it sucks the game motivates me not to invite those 2 along, but instead strongly inforces I should just keep on running over them.

At the heart of all this:  A game that allows the solo player to stay solo longer makes more money then a game that requires more grouping.

Look at all the XP potions(thier best sellers) on the market place. There is an army of solo players eating them up.

If grouping started giving you an exp pop   ....... market place sales on potions would drop overnight.

$OE will not let this happen.

Why would sales drop?  Double XP is double XP no matter if you get it solo or in a group.  Time savers will always sell.

edit... and why all of the marketplace conspiracy theories?  The grouping XP penalty has been around long, long before the marketplace.

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

The system should be designed so that solo play is feasible, but grouping with actual genuine players is always the superior choice, no matter at what level, regardless of mentoring or not. It's an MMO, people should want to group when ever possible.

This.  It's a MMO, people are supposed to group up, it's supposed to be social.  Grouping should be the BEST way to gain xp.  I agree there should be solo options, especially as a new father I understand that all too well now.  But the heart and soul of most MMO's nowadays has been ripped out and thrown away with the way soloing is paramount today.

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Old 05-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #27
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

Grouping in EQ2 is hugely disincentivized from quests that have single updates, to group XP splits. Please fix and encourage grouping!

Quest 'lines' were a horri-bad idea as well, "since you aren't on my step we can't really group because i need x and you need y and we can't share these quests.  i can group with you and get you yours but then you will probably log, and i only have an hour and ahalf to work on mine. oh well maybe next time"

Except for Heritage/Signatures/Major things, but they should have colossol xp rewards.

I also think adding Hell Levels at this point was not well thought out.

Now that I figured out that my main problem was trying to quest and group for XP, and moloing Seb is the fastest way to level, I am leveling fine.

Agree, quest lines are terrible.  Quest should be dynamic, when someone joins you the quest accounts for that and doesn't make you run around and do the steps leading up to it.  Sure you have to balance some players "cheating" by jumping in at the last minute, but I think it's a small price to pay for the incredible amount of socialibility you will gain by encouraging players not only to group up, but to group up for quests.

Take the skyshrine heroic access quests, what a huge PITA to find a group for these.  Everyone is at some varying stage of this long quest, that's a perfect example of questlines being terrible.

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Old 05-24-2012, 01:43 PM   #28
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I don't see a reason not to do this.

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Old 05-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #29
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I don't see a reason not to do this.

Yeah, but SoE apparently does.  This is hardly the first thread on this, I'm sure I can go back 4 years and find the same issue discussed, the same basic comments and conclusions, and no action.

The thread comes up every few months, there is never any reason given why it shouldn't happen, it just doesn't.

It took 2 and a half years of posts asking for and argueing for the aa slider to be added to game, a cause I relentlessly pursued and they finally came around on.

Maybe in a couple more years, we'll stop penalizing people for grouping up.

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Old 05-24-2012, 01:58 PM   #30
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This thread is pretty much the opposite of what I have seen for the past few years. For so long most players have preferred doing the thousands of solo chores and said soloing should be equally as fast as grouping. I can't count how many times I've heard the "it's called everQUEST for a reason" argument bullsht.

Enjoy.

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