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Old 01-03-2012, 03:27 PM   #1
Toredorf

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Last night I spend 1 hours in queue with a level 80 character till i gave up. Make something to encounrage people to play them... In Rift, WoW and other games, the max queue times are about 10min in bad times. Make something about this pls.

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Old 01-03-2012, 03:31 PM   #2
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Unfortunately you cant force people to PvP. This is the main reason its hard to find any Battleground group. Unless you are between the levels 30-39, or you are level 90. 

I also think the majority of people doing BG's for those levels, have been doing them for quite some time, so it's hard for new players to get into it because they hardly stand a chance against all the people decked out in BG gear with adorns and tons of AA's, and experience.

Sad to see this system so broken and un-appealing to the majority of players. What it needs is a complete overhaul. Which SOE will probably never do 

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Old 01-03-2012, 05:12 PM   #3
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It doesn't need an overhaul, just some tweaks. In T4, a player can do some damage with treasured and handcrafted with a mix of adepts/experts/masters and a decent chunk of AA.

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Old 01-03-2012, 10:24 PM   #4
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All it needs is for BGs to be reverted to before gu61 (although I think the aa cap change over all was a good thing, although I do miss my battle hardening and group wide 75 ability mod SMILEY  )

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Old 01-04-2012, 12:59 AM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

It doesn't need an overhaul, just some tweaks. In T4, a player can do some damage with treasured and handcrafted with a mix of adepts/experts/masters and a decent chunk of AA.

^^^That^^^

Also SoE should put seperate queues for solo & grouped players so newer players or players who just like to solo don't have to face geared, premade groups all of the time.

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Old 01-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #6
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You will only get a BG if you are in your 30s or 90 (super rare otherwise).  I thought maybe with the influx of eq2x players it would change, but it hasn't -- only got more people for the same level ranges.

Malevolence is right, in T4 you don't need BG/PvP gear to make a huge impact on your team.  I have a dps set that I occasionally equip on my warlock that is mostly quested, playermade and gives him around 450ability mod.

And, to be honest, 30s is far more fun because player skill actually makes a noticeable difference and the classes are far more balanced than at 90.  At 90 you'll instantly know which team will win just by looking at the classes you're with and against; in 30s it's always up for grabs even if you're against a stacked premade.

*I wish they'd make a new bg for 1v1 or 3v3 so all tiers could experience BGS.*

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Old 01-06-2012, 01:37 PM   #7
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I disagree that all you need is the above mentioned gear. SoE really screwed new players/characters by removing toughness from mastercrafted gear. I have characters that worked their butts off to get the full set of gear from Lfay only to have them require toughness, making that set useless for pvp, then they go and change it again, and then remove toughness from MC...ad nauseam. You can tell if people are in handcrafted/treasured vs those in better. I never bothered to put targeted buffs on those people as they go down very fast vs those in toughness gear.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:26 PM   #8
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Brigh wrote:

I disagree that all you need is the above mentioned gear. SoE really screwed new players/characters by removing toughness from mastercrafted gear. I have characters that worked their butts off to get the full set of gear from Lfay only to have them require toughness, making that set useless for pvp, then they go and change it again, and then remove toughness from MC...ad nauseam. You can tell if people are in handcrafted/treasured vs those in better. I never bothered to put targeted buffs on those people as they go down very fast vs those in toughness gear.

I quit the 80-89 when toughness got nerfed as MC wasn't going to fly and I'll be da**** if I grind endless hours just to get back to even to get nerfed when the next season of gear comes out just about the time I get to enjoy even footing.

I tried the 90s pre-DOV and lack of raid gear or full PvP gear pre DOV really was like inhaling donkey.

I got cushy in the 39s on a mastercrafted dirge with more than a 100 spent (even after the toughness nerf) and it was quite fun.  When they locked my AA to 100... now that was my walking away point as MC wasn't going to make up for NOT having full PVP fabled w/o that AA.  They did that gamewide as well which was very annoying all because of the F2P and PvP excuse.

Casual targets are choosing to spend their limited EQ2 time in other places.  People can decorate houses, farm plat, play LON, raid, grind Drunder, HQ, make twink non-BG alt #5 on another character class, etc.  There's only so many hours in a day and now they add DM to the mix?  Do you really expect that BG population is going to thrive?

I've only got limited total time in EQ2 and grinding BGs instead of T9 plat farming for Colossals just doesn't make sound financial sense....

Put T9 no-trade colossals on the BGs merchant for the 2x number of 'elapsed hours' spent (for the 1st flagged character on the account), 4x that on the next character on the account, etc. as it does to take 1 90 PR/SOH plat farming and people will BG. 

For me it's 180p a week for 1 RL hour (2x 30min) and at 1000p that is ~6 weeks or 6 hours or RL time but I can't make it go any faster.  Grinding 12hrs in BGs over 3 days, well that would be attactive for the first 90 character and perhaps casual 30min -1hr 'writ style grinding' for the other alts after that would keep up population in BGs after the 1st main got their stuff.

That would work until they open the spigot that is currently throttled for the T9 Colossals like they did smoldering shards.

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Old 01-06-2012, 06:34 PM   #9
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Applo wrote:

 At 90 you'll instantly know which team will win just by looking at the classes you're with and against; in 30s it's always up for grabs even if you're against a stacked premade.

No, you don't.

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Old 01-06-2012, 06:37 PM   #10
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

Put T9 no-trade colossals on the BGs merchant for the 2x number of 'elapsed hours' spent (for the 1st flagged character on the account), 4x that on the next character on the account, etc. as it does to take 1 90 PR/SOH plat farming and people will BG. 

That really isn't a terrible idea, just not sure it ever has a chance of happening.

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Old 01-06-2012, 06:49 PM   #11
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This feature is still far better than the joke dungeons finder/maker. Put toughness back into Mastercraft and give a better reward for BGs. That Colossal reactant may be a little much unless the price/time matched the rare of in game reactant drops. The reason why they were so popular before was anybody could use the gear weather in PVP or not and be well suited. The reward has to be big enough for more people to want to do them again. 

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Old 01-07-2012, 01:51 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

This feature is still far better than the joke dungeons finder/maker. Put toughness back into Mastercraft and give a better reward for BGs. That Colossal reactant may be a little much unless the price/time matched the rare of in game reactant drops. The reason why they were so popular before was anybody could use the gear weather in PVP or not and be well suited. The reward has to be big enough for more people to want to do them again. 

My suggestion of a faster rate for the FIRST flagged toon would bring them in but the lower rate for the SECOND, THIRD, etc. toons would address this only for the 90BGs.

People would come to BGs again to twink out their main fairly quickly and would spend RL time to make up for the slowness that is plat farming lock outs, thus giving BGs an advantage.  People would find that the second char would be twinking 'on par' with plat farming per unit time effort RL spent, etc.

Making 1000 token BG No Trade Colossals for example, well none of the masses would even bother.  300 token items were tough enough to get without regular BG grinding and a 3 week time horizon per peice. 

Sure glad I didn't waste 4 hrs a day for 8 weeks to twink a 90 in challenger gear right before they nerfed toughness.  Same has to be true here as well.  Colossals can't be on a 6 week accumulation rate and then get nerfed in April to 20g or something in game.  BGs would fail if that was the carrot.

Honestly, if you have EM DOV or better raid gear the Colossals are only 'selectively' better.  In the T4 teir the colossal equivalent are only 5p or so which means BGs can't take 2hrs per equivalent as any 90 can breath 5p in farming anywhere in game.   

I don't find myself in demand for more crit honestly and my personal carrot is the almighty AOE AT that is coming out but not at 1500p per 7.5 AOE AT unit with no overpowered red slot war rune that helps me solo old raid mobs.  Thus I only needed 1 colossal, but wouldn't mind 4 more as alt equipment slots to pull in and out as I see fit.

For T4 BGs they need to let MC = 85% of what you need again and let people spend 160 again.  Who cares if SKs are annoyingly OP.  If someone really enjoys just /facemash they'll get bored eventually or hey, SOE could take one from it's own book and selectively nerf T4 SKs who spend 160 or give pvp gear ot other classes to be all the immunities on them.

I'd think it would be informative to see what 39/MC/320 actually 'feels like' in a BGs.  Heck, I'd like to see the AA limit be removed for all GOLD accounts PvE and PvP if they're bound and determined to keep a carrot to level up for the F2P people.

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Old 01-07-2012, 07:26 PM   #13
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The reactant gear isn't that hot in T4 IMO. The procs and effects don't work in PvP. The potency doesn't work in PvP. So the only pieces worth getting are ones with dps mod, and they have on average about 4.5 dps mod, which is less than you can get on crafted/treasured gear. So the only real value is reforging the dps mod to HP.

And even then, you are probably just better of with toughness and pvp potency.

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Old 01-08-2012, 02:55 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

The reactant gear isn't that hot in T4 IMO. The procs and effects don't work in PvP. The potency doesn't work in PvP. So the only pieces worth getting are ones with dps mod, and they have on average about 4.5 dps mod, which is less than you can get on crafted/treasured gear. So the only real value is reforging the dps mod to HP.

And even then, you are probably just better of with toughness and pvp potency.

In the 90's Raid PvE gear > anything other than that so the PvP specific potency change made sense for THAT TEIR.

In T4, especially BGs, there was no excessive advantage to PvE over PvP gear.  PvP was a little better but if your character had a PvE weapon or charm it wasn't a game breaker.

They should consider just tuning different teirs differently.  T4 should not have the PvP only tag to equipment even if toughness as it stands stays until EQ3 comes out. 

T9 should keep the change as EM DOV raid gear was faster to obtain than a full set of PvP gear and anyone who would waste their time and don PvP T9 gear (before the change) was a fool.

I personally think BGs and PvP are considered a failed experiment with some subpopulation who is very active in it but otherwise it's on maintainence mode.  Now that the PvP dev got moved BGs and PvP are not high on the list of features. 

Thus any new NGE style changes probably aren't in the mix.  Honestly, part of what drove away people with the toughness nerf was the fact that ones BPS (buttons per second) became too low.  Just like Colossals have to low of a hit rate, no toughness means one gets far fewer BPS per death event. 

In effect old toughness gave people plenty of time to move, get reinforcements, heal, and have more events per 1:1 but toughness did overly reward stifles, stuns, mez, etc. or immunities to those effects too much. 

Also the gap between PvP and MC was 15s of actions for 1:1 in most cases (omitting vs T8 Nagafen PvP geared scouts) with plenty of time not to sit there and get owned at your own peril.  Full PvP gear now actually gives enough to to play (with the toughness nerf) and MC really feels, well like 2nd class citizenship, except on the T4 scout I ran around on.  Post toughness nerf clothies in full T4 PvP gear are fine, clothies in MC just don't fly. The no-60 points in the TSO tree don't help that either.

In total, PvP gear in BGs should have been very limited in scope to begin with.  Imagine, if MC + adorns and 3 slots of PvP specific gear (weapon, secondary, ranged) were what the ceiling was then entry level players vs BG vets wouldn't be that different in capacity on paper but experience and strategy would be of prime importance.  The gap between entry and vet status is kinda wide as it stands now depending on what classes we're talking about. 

As BGs has been implemented that post toughness one must grind the gear to get to 'break even' FIRST just to start enjoying strategy SECOND.  Let's face it, the data says EQ2 players are chosing to spend more time in PvE doing other things in EQ2 rather than 1800+ tokens in non-premade group acquisition rates just to 'get back to even.'

SOE seems to love being a follower.  SOE needs to go over and play TOR and copy them.  I am running a clothie (sith inq) in solo quest gear drops (treasured) and I don't instantly die in 3 seconds to a melee character in T2. 

If people like me didn't like dying in 4 hits to toons like Joyz, Meela, etc. in T8/9 under old toughness, why in the world would they think people like me would like dieing to everyone in full BG PvP (pick a teir doesn't matter) in 4s when I'm running in MC or Legendary?  I went to T4 as a MC dirge and it was ok but kinda boring as although I didn't instantly die and wasn't the focus of either an easy kill (clothie) or HPT (high priority target like healer) I just didn't have the DPS to kill 1:1 so I wasn't a threat either. 

I haven't heard anything about T4 and T9 Beastlords in BGs but I imagine they're absurd.  More so than SKs in T4 ever hoped of being I'm sure.

Even with all that stuff being said above, I'll probably never be a serious BG grinder ever again no matter what they change but in future iterations their audience must not have a wide 80hr grind to get on close footing to get to the fun.  T4 token costs were part of the draw as it was less hours to get to even rather than T9 but really the fights shouldnt' be tuned for fun at full PvP vs full PvP only.  The number of events a MC player gets to choose before death for some classes vs full PvP of some classes even in T4 is a little low.  When I went to a class that gave me more decisions per second before death I found that I had more decisions not because of mechanics but because the opponents didn't consider me an individual threat, and they were correct.

In effect, as a casual I was herded to a class that didn't matter and was just a spectator.  If I had a class that mattered and could shift the tide as an individual, it was basically "go home sonny till you get this seasons full PvP set and find yourself a premade where you get to be Pele'."

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Old 01-08-2012, 03:38 PM   #15
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Bluntly, the only way casual people will play BGs again even just for fun is if they can play right away.

Either the BG PvP set gear from 'last' season always needs to be available for SC or MC needs upped back to pre-toughness levels for T4.  Have them available for DM if necessary. 

Also, the AA limits under 90 just need to go gamewide.  Everyone here is a vet and we don't need coddled or throttled. 

There is no harm if T4 players actually could spend 160 again.  Heck, allowing 90/320s in T4 PvP gear to actually play in T4 'prime' BGs would be fun (no-non mentors) as having all your class 'buttons' and AA bells and whistles without 100s of hours of beatdown to get to even in T9.  The reduced potency of T4 vs T9 gear would automatically be like a toughness un-nerf. 

I don't know how it would work out but it would be better than the malaise that is current BGs.  

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Old 01-09-2012, 06:53 AM   #16
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Brigh wrote:

I disagree that all you need is the above mentioned gear. SoE really screwed new players/characters by removing toughness from mastercrafted gear. I have characters that worked their butts off to get the full set of gear from Lfay only to have them require toughness, making that set useless for pvp, then they go and change it again, and then remove toughness from MC...ad nauseam. You can tell if people are in handcrafted/treasured vs those in better. I never bothered to put targeted buffs on those people as they go down very fast vs those in toughness gear.

I can't disagree more with you, especially for scouts and mages.  If there is a healer (or pally) in your group you should have a set of gear for full dps -- and trust me it's not a PvP or MC set.   If you aren't healing/buffing those that seem to have an intelligent set that isn't PvP then that's your mistake.  In the short time they do live they can and will blow up opponents in full pvp sets making them quite valuable in bgs.  So maybe they get frustrated that they die fast, but they certainly can top dps charts and won't feel worthless in the meantime. Typically newbs and lowbies ask what to do for gear if they are getting 2shotted and someone that cares could quickly show them where to get the good nonPvP stuff.

Stat separation means you have to invest in pvp for pvp advantages and pve for pve advantages.  It's not perfect but it's better than what it was.  It would only be better if they further separated it.

As far as AA's, I think it just changed some of the OP classes in lower levels.  Healers got hit the worst by it.  It didn't change enough to complain about, it made sense in the grander scheme of things and I think a T4 toon with an option to spend 320 aa's would destroy T4 pretty quickly.  As it stands, people that aren't hardcore can still lock and enjoy T4 and be competitive, the 320aa option would throw that away quick and we'd be back to a handful of T4 locked and maxed out ragers crying that there's no one easy to kill any more. 

Most people at this point realize T4 is a great place to lock to quest/AA/tradeskill, learn the classes, gain discord/bg faction/tokens and then unlock when they feel they're ready to bolt to 90, if they decide they want to at all.

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Old 01-09-2012, 12:15 PM   #17
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Applo wrote:

I think a T4 toon with an option to spend 320 aa's would destroy T4 pretty quickly.  As it stands, people that aren't hardcore can still lock and enjoy T4 and be competitive, the 320aa option would throw that away quick and we'd be back to a handful of T4 locked and maxed out ragers crying that there's no one easy to kill any more. 

I think what I was emphasizing was I wish there was a way to use my 90/320 in an environment with 25% potency from gear, thus I wish there was a T4 Prime.  People would die less quickly but we'd still have lots of bells and whistles and our full compliment of abilities. 

320 on a 39 won't mean as much as it could because at 39 there's quite a few spells some classes are missing that some of those 320 would be buffing not to mention myth effects. 

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Old 01-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #18
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But the elephant in the room is....

Average population (as well as class representation/loadings) of BGs a few months before toughness nerf = ?

Average population (as well as class representation/loadings) of BGs 6 months after toughness nerf = ?

If BGs were doing so hot why did the OP make this thread? It isn't the lack of free EM raid gear equivalents that is keeping the casuals out it's the low buttons per second before waiting on the repop timer.

I strongly think datapoints like me back in T8 pre-toughness nerf were the final straw on the camel's back to nerf toughness. It's a shame because it was just getting fun especially in Ganak/Smugglers with MC/AA & two mechanics' unintended outputs.

Nothing quite as yummy as "those" ward proccing items and mending adorns with >8 targets and out of power melees only able to autoattack loopholes were.  I'm certain all the pvp reds sat down and decided it was time to reward those who ground for hours for full PvP and at the same time to address the issues in the 90s with forever kill due to heals. The AA limit for T4 BGs, well I don't see WHY they had to nerf it for the PvE game.

There was speculation on the Crushbone server 1-9 recently on when Beastlords will get nerfed. Let me tell you, when I get around to making a beastlord and I have it 'comfortable', THEN it will be nerfed.  It sure seems like I've been a data point or maybe I've just been unlucky enough to be that perfectly out of phase over the years no matter what it is: BGs, TSing, Harvesting, you name it.  I get to 'comfortable' status in something and boom.  Nerfed to irrelvance or buffed to grinding to get back to even.

People should be concerned about the profitabilty of PR plat runs in the future. Now that I can get my own 800p a month on 1 90 without having to be in a raid job (and have been vocal about it and shared it with the masses) they may decide that isn't the best motivator for the masses and remove or reduce said ability to be independent to herd people back into raiding. 

Some player made a 10/300 and posted it on a double xp weekend and what did they do?  Nerfed Firemyst Gully instantly.  SJ plays the game and decides that he's too OP or the people he plays with T1-T8 on his lowbies don't function as a group well?  He has them throttle AA for everyone gamewide so F2P people have better group function.  Should have just done that for FP server and not the rest. 

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Old 01-09-2012, 12:39 PM   #19
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

But the elephant in the room is....

Average population (as well as class representation/loadings) of BGs a few months before toughness nerf = ?

Average population (as well as class representation/loadings) of BGs 6 months after toughness nerf = ?

If BGs were doing so hot why did the OP make this thread? It isn't the lack of free EM raid gear equivalents that is keeping the casuals out it's the low buttons per second before waiting on the repop timer.

I strongly think datapoints like me back in T8 pre-toughness nerf were the final straw on the camel's back to nerf toughness. It's a shame because it was just getting fun especially in Ganak/Smugglers with MC/AA & two mechanics' unintended outputs.

Are you talking about T8 average population?  Because lets be honest here, most of that population around the time of the toughness nerf was made up of chars that were still levelling to max level.  Its inevitable that the population would drop off over time regardless of whether toughness was nerfed or not, especially when velious came out.

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Old 01-09-2012, 12:45 PM   #20
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

Applo wrote:

I think a T4 toon with an option to spend 320 aa's would destroy T4 pretty quickly.  As it stands, people that aren't hardcore can still lock and enjoy T4 and be competitive, the 320aa option would throw that away quick and we'd be back to a handful of T4 locked and maxed out ragers crying that there's no one easy to kill any more. 

I think what I was emphasizing was I wish there was a way to use my 90/320 in an environment with 25% potency from gear, thus I wish there was a T4 Prime.  People would die less quickly but we'd still have lots of bells and whistles and our full compliment of abilities. 

320 on a 39 won't mean as much as it could because at 39 there's quite a few spells some classes are missing that some of those 320 would be buffing not to mention myth effects. 

I also don't see the point of this either.  I've been sucked into a 30 - 39 BG when I was level 90 and its totally uncompetitive.  There is a reason level 30s were complaining like hell when it was happening regularly.

And if you mean to just have level 90s only mentored to 30, then what on earth is the point of that? People wouldn't die less quickly, because from my experience of a 90 vs 90 mentored down to 30, people die the same as if they were still 90 v 90.

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Old 01-14-2012, 12:06 AM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

S_M_I_T_E wrote:

But the elephant in the room is....

Average population (as well as class representation/loadings) of BGs a few months before toughness nerf = ?

Average population (as well as class representation/loadings) of BGs 6 months after toughness nerf = ?

If BGs were doing so hot why did the OP make this thread? It isn't the lack of free EM raid gear equivalents that is keeping the casuals out it's the low buttons per second before waiting on the repop timer.

I strongly think datapoints like me back in T8 pre-toughness nerf were the final straw on the camel's back to nerf toughness. It's a shame because it was just getting fun especially in Ganak/Smugglers with MC/AA & two mechanics' unintended outputs.

Are you talking about T8 average population?  Because lets be honest here, most of that population around the time of the toughness nerf was made up of chars that were still levelling to max level.  Its inevitable that the population would drop off over time regardless of whether toughness was nerfed or not, especially when velious came out.

I was imprecise.  T4 and T8 pre and post nerf.  I was more active in T8 than T4 pre nerf and was somewhat active post nerf in T4 before tailing off. 

I'd be curious about whatever "account participation loading data accounting" SOE had on this pre and post nerf of toughness.

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Old 01-14-2012, 12:29 AM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

S_M_I_T_E wrote:

Applo wrote:

I think a T4 toon with an option to spend 320 aa's would destroy T4 pretty quickly.  As it stands, people that aren't hardcore can still lock and enjoy T4 and be competitive, the 320aa option would throw that away quick and we'd be back to a handful of T4 locked and maxed out ragers crying that there's no one easy to kill any more. 

I think what I was emphasizing was I wish there was a way to use my 90/320 in an environment with 25% potency from gear, thus I wish there was a T4 Prime.  People would die less quickly but we'd still have lots of bells and whistles and our full compliment of abilities. 

320 on a 39 won't mean as much as it could because at 39 there's quite a few spells some classes are missing that some of those 320 would be buffing not to mention myth effects. 

1. I also don't see the point of this either.  I've been sucked into a 30 - 39 BG when I was level 90 and its totally uncompetitive.  There is a reason level 30s were complaining like hell when it was happening regularly.

2. And if you mean to just have level 90s only mentored to 30, then what on earth is the point of that? People wouldn't die less quickly, because from my experience of a 90 vs 90 mentored down to 30, people die the same as if they were still 90 v 90.

1. Read point 2

2. If 90s were mentored to 30 with only other 90s and wore T4 BG gear it would allow a DPS nerf over all classes.  Doesn't T4 have less DPS/MA/Pot/etc. than T9 gear?   Toughness prenerf might have been too friendly to MC people but post nerf it's only 'right' when you're full PvP set.  The data doesn't lie, new peeps aren't gonna waste the time to farm to 'right' when MC is steamrolled, impotent, & you're wasting precious PvE time to plat or token farm with nothing to show for it.

3. Basically the point of the post is T4 was fun if slightly unbalanced w/ OP SKs (I didn't have one) with 160 spent. 

a) 39/100 isn't as 'fun' as a 39/160 was PvE or PvP and should be put back to 160 or have limits removed in PvE entirely. 

b) 90s are just too quick with toughness as it is post nerf without full PvP token gear so if the nerf is permanent a 30m/320 in T4 BG gear (the less tokens required to buy) would allow people to casually enter the field without having to grind 1800 tokens to 'get back to even' in T9 while still playing characters with all their bells and whistles.  Let them use DM tokens or SC to 'get to even'. 

I don't play BGs anymore so it really doesn't matter.  I did play BGs in MC and I have given my PvE point of view of why I don't and won't play BGs anymore to give feedback in general.  Maybe if I had a character already in full PvP I'd feel differently about things but alas I never got enough tokens concentrated on any single character so after the toughness nerf I couldn't stomach it any longer.

DM is failing because people can't play their characters and they're fixing that quick right?  BGs are failing because casuals won't grind the tokens to get to even on their 'fun' characters (T9) and T4 is kinda lame now since the 160 spent got throttled.  T4 used to be the place to be as the entrance requirements were lower. 

Why in the world is PvP only gear useable in BGs for PvE people 1800+ tokens?

Add to the fact that there is no PvE bonus ability (or gear) for BGing and thus only PvP active players (who are probably predominatly on Nagafen to begin with) are BGing regularly en masse or PvE BG guilds who steamroll as premades.

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Old 01-14-2012, 09:37 AM   #23
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

b) 90s are just too quick with toughness as it is post nerf without full PvP token gear so if the nerf is permanent a 30m/320 in T4 BG gear (the less tokens required to buy) would allow people to casually enter the field without having to grind 1800 tokens to 'get back to even' in T9 while still playing characters with all their bells and whistles.  Let them use DM tokens or SC to 'get to even'. 

As it stands now, you can go into level 90 BGs from scratch with no pvp token gear and be competitive.  The stats on the mastercrafted vanquisher armour (for which you need no faction of any description) are almost identical to the soul pillager set which requires the faction and tokens,  so much so that a lot of people in BGs don't seem to bother upgrading.

As for jewelry and weapons, again PvE stuff is far superior generally speaking.

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Old 01-15-2012, 08:11 AM   #24
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les BG remarchent sur STORMS donc gogo vous mettre en fil d attente SMILEY

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Old 01-20-2012, 08:42 AM   #25
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I am completely against this for my server, they need to be removed, ever since they came out I see more people in a bg hiding, than I do in open world PvP, I don't even see the point of bg's. If pve players want pvp go to a pvp server kind of deal, not like you can't raid on a pvp server, sony has made this game so travel friendly you can't be ganked. I don't understand the diff between saying you like bg's but not liking pvp.

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Old 01-20-2012, 01:25 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

I am completely against this for my server, they need to be removed, ever since they came out I see more people in a bg hiding, than I do in open world PvP, I don't even see the point of bg's. If pve players want pvp go to a pvp server kind of deal, not like you can't raid on a pvp server, sony has made this game so travel friendly you can't be ganked. I don't understand the diff between saying you like bg's but not liking pvp.

Are you sure its not a case of being a difference between liking BGs and not liking being ganked continuously?  Obviously i've never played on Nagafen so please feel free to correct me on this, but my impression was that most open world pvp consisted of people getting ganked whilst doing quests or whatever.  I know there are stifle pots etc, but even so you have to acknowledge that 1 vs 1, classes do not all have an even and equal chance, especially when gear disparity is taken into the equation.

At least with BGs, its notionally group vs group rather than 1 vs 1.

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Old 01-20-2012, 05:41 PM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

I am completely against this for my server, they need to be removed, ever since they came out I see more people in a bg hiding, than I do in open world PvP, I don't even see the point of bg's. If pve players want pvp go to a pvp server kind of deal, not like you can't raid on a pvp server, sony has made this game so travel friendly you can't be ganked. I don't understand the diff between saying you like bg's but not liking pvp.

Why BGs were enticing to me but Nagafen really isn't to someone like me because:

1) Auto-group (BGs) with a finite area (limited map) and equal leveling (teir level reducing 30,40,etc.) with instances of 1:1 seem attractive. 

2) Solo vs Group, Undergeared vs Overgeared, almost unlimited area and fight cessation (flight, port, etc.), unequal level fighting, etc.  This is why PvP would only be attractive to a pre-twinked 30 or a HM raid geared PvE melee priest or T1 DPS transferred to Nagafen.  Either event, roaming groups of 6s would own same level solo players enjoying PvE.  PvE BG players don't mind concentrated bouts of PvP not PvE with 'surprise' PvP. 

....Being in a Nagafen guild that makes 6 man groups looking to steam roll someone is attractive to me....

.....Being super-twinked either in T9 or T2-4 with the 'advantage' and having all the pots/signets/immunities to faceroll other characters would be attractive to me...

....Playing a less than perfectly twinked character solo as cattle to harvest plat from... Nah... Why would I want to do that.  I could play FPS games where someone plays 8hrs a day and can snipe me with the rail gun or hit me with the rocket launcher mid-jump from across the level if I wanted to be and feel completely impotent....

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Old 01-20-2012, 06:03 PM   #28
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What is the difference? Bg's are never equal, nor is pvp, those 6v6 where one side totally smashes the other side, you have a better chance on a pvp server surviving or getting away from that. I guess I will never understand it, but I wish they would at least take it off our server, so people would stop hiding inside them, becasue it forces other players to go inside them for the lack of pvp in open world. 

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Old 01-20-2012, 06:09 PM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am completely against this for my server, they need to be removed, ever since they came out I see more people in a bg hiding, than I do in open world PvP, I don't even see the point of bg's. If pve players want pvp go to a pvp server kind of deal, not like you can't raid on a pvp server, sony has made this game so travel friendly you can't be ganked. I don't understand the diff between saying you like bg's but not liking pvp.

Are you sure its not a case of being a difference between liking BGs and not liking being ganked continuously?  Obviously i've never played on Nagafen so please feel free to correct me on this, but my impression was that most open world pvp consisted of people getting ganked whilst doing quests or whatever.  I know there are stifle pots etc, but even so you have to acknowledge that 1 vs 1, classes do not all have an even and equal chance, especially when gear disparity is taken into the equation.

At least with BGs, its notionally group vs group rather than 1 vs 1.

Like I said tho bro, travel is simple, you can go anywhere in the game with a 60 second immunity and a way to travel is at every corner a long with a ride to pick you up, and right now no one really 1v1's on naggy at all lol. I don't know what the issue is, but it's a lot more rare than it used to be, they are to busy hugging pvp title i guess. Classesin bg's are not equal either, I kind of find it more of a chance to be less equal because your forced to play with random people all the time. lol would just behappy if they took naggy out the picture and made the people have to open world pvp to get gear instead of go in a bg, or at least make bg not work in pvp.

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Old 01-21-2012, 01:03 PM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

What is the difference? Bg's are never equal, nor is pvp, those 6v6 where one side totally smashes the other side, you have a better chance on a pvp server surviving or getting away from that. I guess I will never understand it, but I wish they would at least take it off our server, so people would stop hiding inside them, becasue it forces other players to go inside them for the lack of pvp in open world. 

The peak population in champion's respite last night at level 90 was 35 chars, and only 15 of those were from Nagafen.  I just don't see how removing BGs would encourage people to go searching out pvp. 

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