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Old 03-19-2011, 02:34 AM   #1
SomeDude

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Wondered why the backend cannot sufficiently serve the amount of users? That happens when you replace a real database.....................

http://www.enterprisedb.com/success...le-enterprisedb

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Old 03-19-2011, 06:38 AM   #2
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SomeDude wrote:

Wondered why the backend cannot sufficiently serve the amount of users? That happens when you replace a real database.....................

http://www.enterprisedb.com/success...le-enterprisedb

Interesting, although from the way they are talking about changing things in 2009 which I assume means that EQ2 is still running on the older systems - unless the maintenance fees were that large.

I'm no expert here (although I know one in the guild so will have to run this by him), one thing for sure though, those increased profits would probably more than make up for things if they were plowed into putting all of us not on AB or Nagafen on 2011 hardware...

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Old 03-20-2011, 06:37 AM   #3
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MurFalad wrote:

SomeDude wrote:

Wondered why the backend cannot sufficiently serve the amount of users? That happens when you replace a real database.....................

http://www.enterprisedb.com/success...le-enterprisedb

Interesting, although from the way they are talking about changing things in 2009 which I assume means that EQ2 is still running on the older systems - unless the maintenance fees were that large.

I'm no expert here (although I know one in the guild so will have to run this by him), one thing for sure though, those increased profits would probably more than make up for things if they were plowed into putting all of us not on AB or Nagafen on 2011 hardware...

The way I read it is that since 2009 all new releases are on the EnterpriseDB platform and that at the time of the write-up, existing applications will be moved to this platform within the next 18 months.

 

I have some experience with enterprise databases, and despite all the vendor hype, one cannot compare Oracle to EnterpriseDB in a high demand, “mission critical” application. Oracle RAC servers will run circles around EnterpriseDB.

 

I’m not arguing the fact that Oracle e licensing fees are at the high end of the scale  and Oracle DBAs do not come cheap, at least the ones that know what they are doing.  But you get what you pay for.

 

I’m not implying that companies do not use EnterpriseDB, it all depends on the requirements and you will not see a companies which require high demand database access even contemplating implementing a product such as EnterpriseDB.  

 

Look at their customer list for instance; none of the big corporations are featured. With the few financial companies listed, they do not state whether it is the core banking services or the intranet running on the platform.

 

The article mentions Oracle 9i, which was already surpassed by later versions in 2009. The current version is 11g which is a superior product as one can imagine.

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Old 03-25-2011, 01:43 PM   #4
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I can't find sources, but they dumped Oracle due to licensing fees a while back.

Simply put, eq2 was not popular enough and lacked enough subs to justify oracle enterprse licensing.

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Old 03-25-2011, 02:07 PM   #5
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I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

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Old 03-25-2011, 02:28 PM   #6
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Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

^^ This   SMILEY

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Old 03-25-2011, 02:30 PM   #7
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Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

...you realize that every time you derail a burgeoning conspiracy theory, the Illuminati orders their Freemason henchmen to spray chem-trails on a kitten?

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Old 03-25-2011, 02:33 PM   #8
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Neskonlith wrote:

Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

...you realize that every time you derail a burgeoning conspiracy theory, the Illuminati orders their Freemason henchmen to spray chem-trails on a kitten?

You know, we will now have to re-assign you for divulging that information.

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Old 03-25-2011, 04:17 PM   #9
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Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

Oh common, don't you know conspiracy theory, SOE vs players is part of the game??  sheesh! I mean to think the SOE actually cares about the product they put out...never!  lol

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Old 03-26-2011, 09:15 AM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

I can't find sources, but they dumped Oracle due to licensing fees a while back.

Simply put, eq2 was not popular enough and lacked enough subs to justify oracle enterprse licensing.

think globally, eq2 is not the only product they have that would be used to justify the use of Oracle Enterprise. Contrary to believe EQ2 is just a minor cog in the world of SOE

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Old 03-27-2011, 10:45 AM   #11
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Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

Solaris or linux?

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:55 PM   #12
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Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I can't find sources, but they dumped Oracle due to licensing fees a while back.

Simply put, eq2 was not popular enough and lacked enough subs to justify oracle enterprse licensing.

think globally, eq2 is not the only product they have that would be used to justify the use of Oracle Enterprise. Contrary to believe EQ2 is just a minor cog in the world of SOE

Your right, what I read was specific to the enterprise licensing.  It stuck out to me at the time, as it was the same year my enterprise bought into it and ran into problems migrating as many systems as the expected.

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Old 03-31-2011, 03:22 AM   #13
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Wow, two red replies, I'm honoured SMILEY

My apologies for the belated reply, but I have been out of town for a few days.

Thank you for the clarification, that sets my mind at ease, knowing that the backend is still Oracle.

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Old 03-31-2011, 08:15 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I can't find sources, but they dumped Oracle due to licensing fees a while back.

Simply put, eq2 was not popular enough and lacked enough subs to justify oracle enterprse licensing.

think globally, eq2 is not the only product they have that would be used to justify the use of Oracle Enterprise. Contrary to believe EQ2 is just a minor cog in the world of SOE

Your right, what I read was specific to the enterprise licensing.  It stuck out to me at the time, as it was the same year my enterprise bought into it and ran into problems migrating as many systems as the expected.

Oracle's enterprise agreements are a bloody nightmare, used to think that they where the worst company to deal with in contract terms - until I started working on a enterprise agreement with SAS,  they make Oracle look like a walk in the park, especially if you have international divisions that need the application also....

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Old 03-31-2011, 12:04 PM   #15
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Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

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Old 03-31-2011, 12:34 PM   #16
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Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

Stop that!  This could have been Thread of the Day!  

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Old 03-31-2011, 01:08 PM   #17
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Zoltaroth wrote:

I hate to kill all the cool conspiracy theories, but all EQ2 DBs are still Oracle.  The only EQ2 DB changes we have made since launch are hardware upgrades and performance tuning.  The article referenced above is likely talking about new / other projects.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Thank you Zolt...You owe me a new monitor. Not laughing AT you, but your timing was PERFECT!

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Old 03-31-2011, 05:13 PM   #18
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

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Old 04-01-2011, 02:36 AM   #19
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Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

It amazes me that there are still professional IT people out there who choose to ignore the cost savings and success of open source solutions.  EnterpriseDB is your centralized support if you need it and I'm sure it's far less expensive then Oracle.  Postgresql is a proven DB with many, many implementations under it's belt.  Heck, in the MMORPG world it's not uncommon to see open source implemented.  DAOC used MYSQL and it performed quite well, I recall it being able to handle 100+ players in 1 zone during the epic battles.  I don't see EQ2 coming close to doing that.

Sounds like to me you have fallen prey to Oracle's marketing which is hands down some of the best in the business.  To each his own though, you keep your job and the facade of keeping your company in business while they layoff non critcal staff to cover your departments Oracle related expenses.  To bad your company doesn't have IT staff that is a bit more forward thinking, could save them a ton of money and jobs to boot.

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Old 04-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #20
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

It amazes me that there are still professional IT people out there who choose to ignore the cost savings and success of open source solutions.  EnterpriseDB is your centralized support if you need it and I'm sure it's far less expensive then Oracle.  Postgresql is a proven DB with many, many implementations under it's belt.  Heck, in the MMORPG world it's not uncommon to see open source implemented.  DAOC used MYSQL and it performed quite well, I recall it being able to handle 100+ players in 1 zone during the epic battles.  I don't see EQ2 coming close to doing that.

Sounds like to me you have fallen prey to Oracle's marketing which is hands down some of the best in the business.  To each his own though, you keep your job and the facade of keeping your company in business while they layoff non critcal staff to cover your departments Oracle related expenses.  To bad your company doesn't have IT staff that is a bit more forward thinking, could save them a ton of money and jobs to boot.

So you are saying EnterpriseDB has less then one hour response time? Not going to argue with you, but we have not layed off anyone in the last 5 years, we have expanded our staff 15 percent in the same time period. really have no desire to trust my data access to a free prodcut when we get fined a lot of money for each hour the data is not accessable. Six Sigma for information availablity is the target bar - and Oracle has hit it for us.

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Old 04-01-2011, 11:15 AM   #21
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

It amazes me that there are still professional IT people out there who choose to ignore the cost savings and success of open source solutions.  EnterpriseDB is your centralized support if you need it and I'm sure it's far less expensive then Oracle.  Postgresql is a proven DB with many, many implementations under it's belt.  Heck, in the MMORPG world it's not uncommon to see open source implemented.  DAOC used MYSQL and it performed quite well, I recall it being able to handle 100+ players in 1 zone during the epic battles.  I don't see EQ2 coming close to doing that.

Sounds like to me you have fallen prey to Oracle's marketing which is hands down some of the best in the business.  To each his own though, you keep your job and the facade of keeping your company in business while they layoff non critcal staff to cover your departments Oracle related expenses.  To bad your company doesn't have IT staff that is a bit more forward thinking, could save them a ton of money and jobs to boot.

Mate, it all depends on the requirements. Each of the products have it's place, but there are numerous instances where EnterpriseDB will just not be sufficient enough, despite all the open source hype.

Oracle also comes with features that are just not available with EnterpriseDB, plain and simple.

As mentioned previously, no bank in the world will use EnterpriseDB to run it's core banking services on.

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Old 04-01-2011, 01:46 PM   #22
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SomeDude wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

It amazes me that there are still professional IT people out there who choose to ignore the cost savings and success of open source solutions.  EnterpriseDB is your centralized support if you need it and I'm sure it's far less expensive then Oracle.  Postgresql is a proven DB with many, many implementations under it's belt.  Heck, in the MMORPG world it's not uncommon to see open source implemented.  DAOC used MYSQL and it performed quite well, I recall it being able to handle 100+ players in 1 zone during the epic battles.  I don't see EQ2 coming close to doing that.

Sounds like to me you have fallen prey to Oracle's marketing which is hands down some of the best in the business.  To each his own though, you keep your job and the facade of keeping your company in business while they layoff non critcal staff to cover your departments Oracle related expenses.  To bad your company doesn't have IT staff that is a bit more forward thinking, could save them a ton of money and jobs to boot.

Mate, it all depends on the requirements. Each of the products have it's place, but there are numerous instances where EnterpriseDB will just not be sufficient enough, despite all the open source hype.

Oracle also comes with features that are just not available with EnterpriseDB, plain and simple.

As mentioned previously, no bank in the world will use EnterpriseDB to run it's core banking services on.

Most banks don't use Oracle either, but DB2 on an IBM mainframe.

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Old 04-01-2011, 05:15 PM   #23
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Wingrider01 wrote:

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

Sorry to say, but my company has been running mysql for backend processing of terabytes of data for years now.  We tend to generate/process about 15gb-30gb of data a day.  And yes, it's been interesting working around mysql issues, but I think we've done fairly well.  We even splurge and spend the $2k/year to keep a single enterprise support license open for any troubleshooting.

Compare that to the oracle fees.

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Old 04-01-2011, 06:04 PM   #24
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I did not infer that all banks run Oracle SMILEYRight now I'm involved in a massive project moving one of the major banks from IBM/DB2 to Oracle 11g, and it is not the only bank to have done so recently. theBlackDragon wrote:

SomeDude wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Oracle's licensing is historical very expensive, think millions.  I'm always facinated by why companies choose to use Oracle in the first place, given it's high cost I find it hard to believe that anybody would build their company on top of them.  The best part is that there is open source alternatives such as postgres (Enterprise DB) that perform just as well.  

Porting an application from 1 db to another is very challenging though, especially a real time app such as EQ2.  To the developers it's a nightmare, but to the execs it's a dream come true.  Take out x amount of yearly fees, insert FREE!  From the players perspective I wouldn't mind seeing them porting EQ2 to Postgresql if it works.. mainly because it will free up funds that hopefully would be reinvested into the game.  But that's all kind of a pipe dream, as mentioned it's probably postgres moving forward, doubt they will touch EQ2.

It amazes me that any professional IT person would consider resting the fate of their companies data and livelhood on a free prodcut that has no centralized forum of support. Will stick with my Oracle enterprise licensing and excellent 7x24x365 response - I like keeping my job and my company in business.

It amazes me that there are still professional IT people out there who choose to ignore the cost savings and success of open source solutions.  EnterpriseDB is your centralized support if you need it and I'm sure it's far less expensive then Oracle.  Postgresql is a proven DB with many, many implementations under it's belt.  Heck, in the MMORPG world it's not uncommon to see open source implemented.  DAOC used MYSQL and it performed quite well, I recall it being able to handle 100+ players in 1 zone during the epic battles.  I don't see EQ2 coming close to doing that.

Sounds like to me you have fallen prey to Oracle's marketing which is hands down some of the best in the business.  To each his own though, you keep your job and the facade of keeping your company in business while they layoff non critcal staff to cover your departments Oracle related expenses.  To bad your company doesn't have IT staff that is a bit more forward thinking, could save them a ton of money and jobs to boot.

Mate, it all depends on the requirements. Each of the products have it's place, but there are numerous instances where EnterpriseDB will just not be sufficient enough, despite all the open source hype.

Oracle also comes with features that are just not available with EnterpriseDB, plain and simple.

As mentioned previously, no bank in the world will use EnterpriseDB to run it's core banking services on.

Most banks don't use Oracle either, but DB2 on an IBM mainframe.

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Old 04-04-2011, 05:46 PM   #25
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If your operation is that critical, I still don't see why you would go with Oracle. As mentioned DB2, or even better Informix would be a better option. Sad for Informix though, they got destroyed by Oracle's marketing.
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