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Old 06-22-2010, 04:16 AM   #1
Sapphy

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This is obviously my own opinion when I look at this server.  I can't speak for anyone but myself, although I do not believe I'm alone. Although those that are here can not speak for the many who have left.  I do not say this because I dislike it here, rather, I love Vox... I just I want it to last.

     When you look at the server statistics that are posted on the main site, you think that VOX right now is doing phenomenally, we have the third highest rated server population out of 24 servers in the entire game, even nearing Nagafen.  Unfortunately, what these stats don't tell us is how active these players are, and how many accounts are actually represented.  The number of characters shown in this data only represent a very* small portion of player activity on the server (less than 1% of total characters made in many cases), anyone who's been to Vox will immediately see the discrepancy here.  Vox is nowhere near any of the activities of most of the servers and especially servers like nagafen or AB.  

     Looking at the average levels for the toon represented in this data you can begin to see why the total population doesn't really represent it well.  An average players level on Vox is 29.00, making it at least 30 levels behind other servers in this regard, with Nagafen coming in second at 50.22, and the other servers falling in about a 20 lvl range of each other.  Vox's server status as a exchange and pvp server ensures this.  Players make toons here to test it out and leave, toons get left here because they are unable to transfer out, or get resold (if there is any demand) but still stay in the system, people have to make alts in order to talk to players of different alignments, negotiate broker items, or to spy on player numbers when pvp was prominent, or more recently, to make toons for freeport players to get tokens in warfields, all with the limited intention of being lvld up.  There are tons of inactive lowbie toons left on the server.  Some of the reasons why the other exchange and pvp server options are also lower on the listing. What if we could approximate the activity of the server?  By looking at lvl 90 players we can get a good idea of activity I think because players at that level would have been active at least sometime after the expansion.  Looking at lvl 90 players is also good bc it is the best indication of high level raid/gear potential for the server as well.  When you look at data concerning the amount of lvl 90 players on each server from the eq2players search base, the reality of population on this server immediately becomes apparent and clearly matches what the players here have been seeing for some time:

      Vox is dead. 

      It's high end population with less than 60% of the second to last server.  This does not begin to account either for the massive recent falling out of players, multiple 90 toons per accounts, etc...  I wouldn't be surprised if the actual active population was much less.  But the low population is worse on a red server than blue servers than is first apparent.  Evil and good sides are not allowed to communicate, or team, and the brokerage systems, although they have fences that allow items to be sold to either side are still largely based on evil and good sides further reducing any broker item supplies and thus inflating prices (currently about 150 plat per master, etc..).  The separation of contact by the two sides further limits any raid potential of guilds here by reducing available player pools for recruitment.  These issues, which by themselves aren't bad do exacerbate the issue when populations are this critical.  

Side imbalances between freeport and qeynos have recently become a huge issue since the expansion too, with maybe less than 100 players on freeport side on even good days.  Since the expansion many players for various reason left if they were disastified rather than have to entirely start from scratch on other servers because transfers aren't allowed.  Evil side fell apart quite quickly as a result, both because of player losses and other guilds recruiting from guilds to fill in their own gaps. As a result raiding potential on the side fell apart as well.  with only 1 guild remaining with solid raid potential on that side.  The remaining players were left relatively undergeared, facing more side imbalances in pvp, and less people to talk to there was less incentive to stay.  We already are cut off from world communications, when activity dies here everything gets a little bit quieter.  The troubling thing is not the current state of Freeport, but that there is no reason for it to improve...  More people leave, imbalances are exaggerated even more, and there is less valid reasons to stay.  Warfields was a really good idea to bring back pvp but unfortunately the balance issues only made the benefits go towards qeynos originally and add more pressure to freeport players (I'd say it is currently about 4or5-1 qeynos players to freeport)

     The current raiding atmosphere for all sides of Vox is pretty bleak, even the few raiding guilds that exist are current having or devoloping significant issues with turnouts and class layouts (none can take on most of the higher lvl stuff that other servers are attempting), and more people are leaving all the time.  Many of these guilds have been or are starting to develop issues being able to consistently turn out x4s.  PVP has been struggling at high levels ever since the expansion, morale is down,  there isn't as much to do in offtimes, and there is just less energy in the game than there usto be.  I still love the server though, and the people here Its not about leaving

So I'm asking for help I guess :/.

     Vox has been patient in the last years, gms and devs rarely look at the server.  I know that we're an exchange and pvp server, and this makes our options limited.  There are also rumours that contractual agreements between livegamer and soe prohibit the merge or transfer features on vox from ever happening that I have been unable to confirm.  I know it puts it in a difficult position either way, but unless something drastic happens this server will continue to decay.  Some have proposed making Vox into a Free for all pvp server.. and allow cross side raiding and chat.  This would at least remove most of the effects of the side imbalances and give back some lvl of pvp.  It still wouldn't give back populations though, I doubt people will want to transfer into the server if there are no options to transfer out although certainly some may want to try it out.  Merging or transferring too would go a long way towards helping here, or even a merge with either nagafen or the bazaar and a one time transfer to the other so players can retain the server status they most enjoy.  A one time transfer would preclude any possibility of taking advantage of the exchange system preemptively... not that even with it the server is at the gear levels of other servers, or that not having the status keeps servers from exchanging stuff.  It still would be unfair to players who came into vox with both statuses in mind though.  

I'm not saying I know exactly what should happen.  But I really do believe that something needs to be done, I know soe has a lot going on, but I think it would be really helpful if it was looked into if it can be.

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Old 06-22-2010, 05:05 AM   #2
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I can understand the frustration of a having a low population, but I can't understand any kind of surprise or confusion. Exchange and PvP players, when compared to PvE players (ones on PvE servers) have the lowest population on there own. Vox is both an exchange server AND PvP server. Do you really expect to even match the populations of a regular PvP server or PvE exchange server? Not sure changing the rule set to something unique would fly either. People who might want to try it would cry foul when there isn't a non-exchange server alternative made available. And if there was an alternative available, most would play on the non-exchange server anyway. I hate to even speculate due to the nature of how they treat PvP and exchange servers like you said. Maybe they can 'buy out' or otherwise nullify the contract and make a regular PvP server, allowing people to transfer to or from Vox with Nagafen.
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:16 AM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:

I can understand the frustration of a having a low population, but I can't understand any kind of surprise or confusion. Exchange and PvP players, when compared to PvE players (ones on PvE servers) have the lowest population on there own. Vox is both an exchange server AND PvP server. Do you really expect to even match the populations of a regular PvP server or PvE exchange server? Not sure changing the rule set to something unique would fly either. People who might want to try it would cry foul when there isn't a non-exchange server alternative made available. And if there was an alternative available, most would play on the non-exchange server anyway. I hate to even speculate due to the nature of how they treat PvP and exchange servers like you said. Maybe they can 'buy out' or otherwise nullify the contract and make a regular PvP server, allowing people to transfer to or from Vox with Nagafen.

I'm not sure what you mean, the other pvp server, nagafen, is doing excellent in terms of population comparative to pve servers.

Yea, Vox's population was always relatively low though bc of its statuses, but it was stable and still had enough for the system to really work.  What is surprising isn't as much its current state but its prospective outlook.  Of course status changes are difficult to make, not saying it isn't, and it wouldn't be suggested except for the severity of the situation.  but still we'd hope that we would at least be given some sort attention to these issues.

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Old 06-22-2010, 05:17 AM   #4
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Such a long convoluted post that doesn't really say anything.

You knew what you were getting into when you made a character on that server. If you didn't know, remake on a different server and chalk it up to "live and learn".

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Old 06-22-2010, 05:22 AM   #5
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Tasmai wrote:

Such a long convoluted post that doesn't really say anything.

You knew what you were getting into when you made a character on that server. If you didn't know, remake on a different server and chalk it up to "live and learn".

the server as it usto be was fine.  What I "got into" wasn't what it was today.  Its hard to have expected it to get to this lvl, and no one really likes to be told to leave the ppl they know and spend months getting their character to the same level just for the possibility that they might get the benefits they should be getting anyways.  Instead of just saying live and learn and screwing everyone over on the server, it would be nice for alternatives that involve addressing the issues that would benefit everyone here without telling them they all have to reroll.

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Old 06-22-2010, 09:52 AM   #6
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The only story I see in those graphs is Oasis needs to merge.

That is all

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Old 06-22-2010, 02:42 PM   #7
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I have to ask: what did you expect? It's an Exchange server, which is an obvious target for people looking to turn their skill in farming equipment in-game into real-world cash. It's a PvP server, which means it's got a relatively easy way for skilled players with well-set-up characters (the right gear, lots of AA points) to farm for valuable stuff. Which leads to an obvious result: lots of characters level-locked in lower tiers for the purpose of ganking less capable characters. I'm not suprised that Vox has an exceptionally high percentage of players who don't care about level 90 (in T9 the fights are too close to fair) and only have characters in the lower tiers.

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Old 06-22-2010, 03:42 PM   #8
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Well they see the secondary PvP server and its red, most new players goto vox and included me. After spoken to several members from free trials, they lefted and i didnt realise that pvp is unbalance. Most free trials didnt stick around long, kept getting owned lol.

Sorry Vox, just have to stick with it. I cant take this anymore lol, unless they fix the pvp rules and gears. Just too [Removed for Content] powerful twikkies!

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Old 06-22-2010, 03:49 PM   #9
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Skwor wrote:

The only story I see in those graphs is Oasis needs to merge.

That is all

Oasis is doing below average but i don't think it having some of the issues a few of the other servers are having.  The only graph that it is doing very low on is the total amount of characters made on the server, which is a very very bad indication of any sort of current state of the server.  Active player amounts only form a very* small percentage of the total number of characters made, and the total number of characters made can easily be skewed by other factors. (for vox the active population to number of characters made is about 0.30%.  Total characters made is not a good indication of how well its doing, clearly, as most anyone who's been to vox can see)

@Jrral- you misunderstand, having the lowest average level of the servers in no way means Vox has a ton of lower level toons that compose its active population.  The data is skewed bc there are tons of inactive toons that comprise its "total characters made" but the large majority of these toons aren't active at all (and even had no intention of being active). Vox has more incentive to make low lvl toons for purposes other than levelling up much more than other servers.  While Vox does have some activity at lower levels it isn't really considerable either.

People looking to capitalize on the pvp and exchange status to gear up their characters "relatively easy" will be in for a rude shock.  Even with the exchange system there are very little items of true value being sold, because vox's raiding capacity is much below other servers, plus the exchange system can be costly, and pvp tokens can only go so far as to making your toon better.  Warfields has recently made these easy to farm (just need to show up and wait), but before that the pvp tokens were nearly impossible to get because player activity is almost nonexistant.  (edit: and Its still a bit quicker to benefit from just doing bgs than warfields imo).

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Old 06-22-2010, 03:57 PM   #10
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I came from venekor right before the merge, I was there the whole time before.

Let me be very honest with you, and this comes from a long past experiance of this very same exact issue.

You're screwed.

We had hope of a merger with naggy, you have no one.

Reroll now, and make the most of it while you still can.

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Old 06-22-2010, 04:04 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

I came from venekor right before the merge, I was there the whole time before.

Let me be very honest with you, and this comes from a long past experiance of this very same exact issue.

You're screwed.

We had hope of a merger with naggy, you have no one.

Reroll now, and make the most of it while you still can.

Your probably right (most people here think we are too lol) but I still wanted to at least try to get something to happen for the server here. I appreciate you having insight into what is happening though! It took so much time to get my character to where she is and I like the people here... I don't think I would reroll if things got to a point where I couldn't stay any more...

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Old 06-22-2010, 10:12 PM   #12
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Be thankful you get to participate in bg's.

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Old 06-22-2010, 11:35 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

Be thankful you get to participate in bg's.

Of course! I love bgs.  I suppose I'm as thankful as any other player that gets to use them... 

edit (still doesn't reconcile how bad the server is now though SMILEY)

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Old 06-23-2010, 01:23 AM   #14
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As this game ages, more and more merges will eventually happen. Because of PVP imbalance and the community found on Nagafen, it will suffer a demise sooner than PVE clusters. Sure, it may be quite some time or years, but it will be right behind Vox. But, Vox surely has holes in the bow and is sinking fast...

Drop me a line if you reroll to Nagafen. Can lend a hand getting started.

I know that I would probably opt to just move to a PVE server if I had the oportunity via the Marketplace. But, I'll quit before I reroll (actually already have cancelled). 9 90 crafters and a couple other 80 crafters aren't getting recreated on PVE and folks shouldn't have to lose their character investments over "Transfer Rules" which make little sense anymore. The rule to prevent transfers away from PVP doesn't hold up anymore since Gear was always the excuse. Now, PVE has the same gear.

Battlegrounds have blurred the lines between rulesets.

Management over at EQ2 would do their subscription numbers some good by finding a transfer option for VOX folks and Nagafen. Their Marketplace would make some extra coin too.  Otherwise, its just lost subscribers.

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Old 06-23-2010, 12:48 PM   #15
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EQ2Player wrote:

As this game ages, more and more merges will eventually happen. Because of PVP imbalance and the community found on Nagafen, it will suffer a demise sooner than PVE clusters. Sure, it may be quite some time or years, but it will be right behind Vox. But, Vox surely has holes in the bow and is sinking fast...

Drop me a line if you reroll to Nagafen. Can lend a hand getting started.

I know that I would probably opt to just move to a PVE server if I had the oportunity via the Marketplace. But, I'll quit before I reroll (actually already have cancelled). 9 90 crafters and a couple other 80 crafters aren't getting recreated on PVE and folks shouldn't have to lose their character investments over "Transfer Rules" which make little sense anymore. The rule to prevent transfers away from PVP doesn't hold up anymore since Gear was always the excuse. Now, PVE has the same gear.

Battlegrounds have blurred the lines between rulesets.

Management over at EQ2 would do their subscription numbers some good by finding a transfer option for VOX folks and Nagafen. Their Marketplace would make some extra coin too.  Otherwise, its just lost subscribers.

Yes! transfers off pvp are a good thing! There are no more excuses, let us go!

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Old 06-23-2010, 01:59 PM   #16
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EQ2Player wrote:

As this game ages, more and more merges will eventually happen. Because of PVP imbalance and the community found on Nagafen, it will suffer a demise sooner than PVE clusters. Sure, it may be quite some time or years, but it will be right behind Vox. But, Vox surely has holes in the bow and is sinking fast...

Drop me a line if you reroll to Nagafen. Can lend a hand getting started.

I know that I would probably opt to just move to a PVE server if I had the oportunity via the Marketplace. But, I'll quit before I reroll (actually already have cancelled). 9 90 crafters and a couple other 80 crafters aren't getting recreated on PVE and folks shouldn't have to lose their character investments over "Transfer Rules" which make little sense anymore. The rule to prevent transfers away from PVP doesn't hold up anymore since Gear was always the excuse. Now, PVE has the same gear.

Battlegrounds have blurred the lines between rulesets.

Management over at EQ2 would do their subscription numbers some good by finding a transfer option for VOX folks and Nagafen. Their Marketplace would make some extra coin too.  Otherwise, its just lost subscribers.

Neat post eq2player SMILEY A transfer option would be really kwl I think, if such an option for vox was allowable at least.  No one's really sure about that... but I don't really see any reason why pvp servers and pve servers should be kept separate anymore imo.

but the server state here is pretty bleak, I can't stress that enough, at least 60% of all regular players have quit since the expansion, and more are leaving at an unprecedented rate (rekno, kosmic, push, hellson, for example all in the last week or two SMILEY ) A transfer option would give people a chance to stay in the game.

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Old 06-23-2010, 03:20 PM   #17
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Merge VOX with bazaar and give people the option before the transfer to transfer to nagafen instead. Allow pvp to pve transfers.Allow station exchange to Pve/pvp server transfers with a required 60 day limit. (Yes this will allow bought toons to be moved to existing PVE servers, who cares!)

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Old 06-24-2010, 12:30 AM   #18
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Being Generous, If you assume that:

1. each REAL PERSON has at least (1) level 90 character

2. most of my RL friends have more than 1 account.. Has to figure in the average....

does that mean there's less than 4000 REAL people playing on Nagafen?

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Old 06-24-2010, 03:37 PM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

Being Generous, If you assume that:

1. each REAL PERSON has at least (1) level 90 character

2. most of my RL friends have more than 1 account.. Has to figure in the average....

does that mean there's less than 4000 REAL people playing on Nagafen?

If each real person does have at least 1 lvl 90 character, than yea, the number of active players on would probably be at least 3,469 or below.  Of course multiple accounts, and players who have gone inactive do make this number less (and if for some reason there are not players listed who should be due to time delay between the game and the eq2players updates for example it would be more, but I don't think that is as big of a change).

Like I said, I actually expect the number of active 90 players to be much less than the total, and especially on like vox where we had kinda a big falling out of players who got to 90 but then left the game. But there's no way to fairly estimate these either, so the original data is the best graph for comparative purposes imo.

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Old 06-24-2010, 05:02 PM   #20
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i left vox when right before rok came out and never looked back.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:43 PM   #21
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I expect Naggy to become a thing of the past, like Venekor before it.  BG's are paving the way, and getting general server populations accustomed to PvP as a side dish.  Some people love cole slaw, some hate it.  /shrug  If they ever perfect Warfields, since Antonica and Commonlands are both pretty much neglected due to the other starting locations (especially since the Islands are gone), that's something that they could roll out game-wide with minimal impact, especially if they make it strictly voluntary.  If that happens, say goodbye to PvP servers as a whole.  Transfers off for Naggy, but Vox is in a bit of a pickle (again, this is all just theory and assumption).  Simple thing to do would allow transfers of house items and whatever gear you are wearing; no coin, no masters, no inventory or broker salecrates, no boxes of fableds or transmuted items.  A clean start with no coin wouldn't be much of a setback for someone who is able to bring all of their characters over and set up housekeeping.  In fact, I think that idea was supported by Nagafen players back when RoK first came out, even.

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Old 07-17-2010, 06:22 PM   #22
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 I believe with Vox and Bazzar SOE has now marked SE for its final destruction, here is why.

These are all the facts as I understand them.

A) SOE failed to stop plat farmers and account selling sites. No enforcement of there own rules on other servers and the Farmers controlling the markets on both Vox and Bazzar to the point they made plat cheeper and more available on other servers so why play on Vox or Bazzar?

B) SOE made BG's accessable so why play on a PVP server? You never have to worry about the gank, which IMO makes you a better player overall.

C) SOE made it so you can take you twinked out toons and sell them on Vox or Bazzar making it the place toons go to die, Once there they can't go anyplace else making toons built up and worked on by the players in Vox or Bazzar less valued when toons sold on these websites to other servers can move around servers with SOE's blessing ($25.USD).

D) SOE by opening up the marketplace (I love it, by the way) opened up "cash to play" on all the servers and I believe the only reason plat isn't being sold on it yet is because of Vox and Bazzar. At some point it will and that by itself makes Vox and Bazzar obsolite.

There are a bunch of threads detailing the SE servers and why they can't ever be merged with regular server's (this is all crap IMO). It is a fact you can purchase anything from toons to plat on any server and that is the only argument thats set's the servers apart. SOE can and will at some point sell plat on the marketplace and the day they do they also will need to sell a $25.00 transfer pot on there ingame marketplace (I think this will be our only real hope) to let Vox and Bazzar toons out. The only other option is to move to another server and re-role.

My 2cp

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Old 07-17-2010, 08:42 PM   #23
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atm they can in no way merge vox or bazaar with any other server. they are in contract with livegamer on those two servers.

so your choices are

A. reroll on another server

B. quit the game and find somthing else that entertains you

C. reroll on another server

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Old 07-18-2010, 12:38 AM   #24
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

atm they can in no way merge vox or bazaar with any other server. they are in contract with livegamer on those two servers.

so your choices are

A. reroll on another server

B. quit the game and find somthing else that entertains you

C. reroll on another server

not sure why this topic got bumped with the one in zones and population (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=482378) :/, but...

There are tons of things they could do/try to help with the server if they actually cared about the players here, not just including mergers and transfers, although I think it is much less restricted on that front than people think, and at the very least they could explain the situation to players here if they can't.  They really haven't gave any authoritative information on any specifics of lg/soe contracts if any, and I have tried to look into it without conclusion.  I personally don't see the reason they would give lg anything more than transaction rights to item exchanges, which is normal for lg, although I don't like conjecturing about the limitations without them having said anything concerning them.  But telling all the people here they need to reroll or quit is stupid.  Its not a fun idea to have to lose everything you've worked for in the game and having to work up a character again for like a month in order to get the support you should have been getting all along, and if players do have to start from scratch would they really want to start all over on eq or have to start in a similar position on another game at this point? Players here deserver better, all servers die eventually, and I doubt any other server's players that were going through a similar situation would find the idea of not actively doing anything to help when they could beneficial.

(edit: if its ok could we lock and link this topic to the one in zones and population please?  I would prefer discussion in that one, because its more recent, has better representation from vox players, and I think it fits a bit better in zones and population than pvp forum which is primarily for nagafen. )

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Old 07-18-2010, 03:53 AM   #25
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EQ2 population and the staff behind it are going one way: Down.

When a company doesnt advertise its product, the outcome is usually the same.

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Old 07-18-2010, 04:13 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

i left vox when right before rok came out and never looked back.

this

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Old 07-19-2010, 12:34 PM   #27
MaCloud1032

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Probly the best thing soe could do is open one time transfers on and off naggy. Then merge naggy into vox. SOE wouldn't be violating any contracts they hold by doing this. Once this is done allow vox and the bazar to openly transfer amongst them selfs.
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:17 PM   #28
Thinwizzy
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[email protected] wrote:

Probly the best thing soe could do is open one time transfers on and off naggy. Then merge naggy into vox. SOE wouldn't be violating any contracts they hold by doing this. Once this is done allow vox and the bazar to openly transfer amongst them selfs.

This would be one of the worst things they could do.  If you want off Vox, do it like everyone else has and reroll.

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Old 07-19-2010, 03:11 PM   #29
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I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, but I wanted to thank you for a well-thought-out post with information to back your statements. Even though I don't have a dog in the hunt I read it with interest.

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