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Old 06-11-2010, 10:54 AM   #1
Striikor
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The respec mirror should not be limited to one. You should be able to have as many as you like. We now have far more than 2 basic spec requirements now. Raiding, Soloing, Harvesting, Crafting, BG -Gears and a separate Ganak/SD are all specs I would use regularly. It seems an arbitrary limitation and really creates less than optimum play with the new scenarios added in BG and SF.

It would make your character much more flexible and fun to play while also allowing fine tuning to get the most of of your class in all the different situations.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:07 AM   #2
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I have to agree, only 1 alternative spec is really making it hard to maximize what I get out of my character as I have to find a balance between soloing, grouping, raiding, and BGs....(well a balance between 3 of them at least)

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:08 AM   #3
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Please don't. There should be some tough choices with consequences in any game for it to be fun and challanging. We don't need to make ALL options the big win button.

If you want to redo a spec pay the plat, I could go for letting a person have saved profiles with the respec NPC but keep the cost.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:10 AM   #4
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SOE restricted everyone down to a single AA mirror almost 1.5 years ago.  Though I would love another mirror to further modify my own specs, I just don't see that happening.

Right now, I hybrid a bunch of my specs together.  I've lumped my solo (dps & FD) / harvesting / crafting AA specs together.  Then my other spec is for heroic / raid / BG.  Though some of my BG choices aren't 100% optimal for a raid spec, I'm still able to make things work pretty well.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:24 AM   #5
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Skwor wrote:

Please don't. There should be some tough choices with consequences in any game for it to be fun and challanging. We don't need to make ALL options the big win button.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:29 AM   #6
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Skwor wrote:

Please don't. There should be some tough choices with consequences in any game for it to be fun and challanging. We don't need to make ALL options the big win button.

This. One is enough. Being able to respec at will for free is completely ridiculous.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:33 AM   #7
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Skwor wrote:

Please don't. There should be some tough choices with consequences in any game for it to be fun and challanging. We don't need to make ALL options the big win button.

If you want to redo a spec pay the plat, I could go for letting a person have saved profiles with the respec NPC but keep the cost in at a minimum.

There are still tough choices with multiple specs, when they instituted the limitation there were far fewer scenarios. I currently have 246 AA on my main and I cannot make it meet all the various scenarios I like to explore in EQ2 as I mentioned in my intitial post.

It only limits the ability of people who have gone to the lengths to really explore all aspects of the game and earn the AA in the first place. How does it add to the game to have the limit?  

In my case I regularly Raid, Craft, Solo, Harvest, BG and do instance groups. There is no way to find two specs that allow you to do those competitively and still enjoy the wide variety that EQ2 offers today. You can be mediocre in all or excel in 2 and suck at the others. Why is that enjoyable?

You still have to earn the AA. You still have to figure out what specs are best for what scenarios. It is certainly not an easy button.

Fine, if they did that demand would make the price of mirrors go up significantly but that is probably good for the economy. Get rid of the achievement vendor entirely, have the mirror provide the respect and the storage. Want to respec then buy a new mirror. You still have to maintain a residence in order to use them.

I my case I would still have to spend plat to get the 7 specs I want. Indeed, I have spent hundreds of plat on different specs already, why is that valid or challenging?  What does it add to EQ2 economy? You also seem to contradict yourself as highlighted above please clarify. Why is it better to give the money to a vendor than it is to pay for a new mirror(s)?

Perhaps change the mirror to reset a particular tree and only store that tree, you could add AA to it but never change what was stored in 'that' mirror, if you want to change it you have to buy a new mirror. But the 1 mirror limitation is and was not made in view of the changes and variety of scenarios added in SF. So I would have a solo mirror, raid mirror, crafting mirror, harvesting mirror, BGGears mirror, BGGANAK/SD mirror etc....

You could make it work back then with two specs. I have spent hundreds of plat on different specs already, why is that valid what does it add to EQ2 economy?

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:36 AM   #8
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One mirror is NOT enough for every class.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:37 AM   #9
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I think they are suggesting that you still pay the AA councelor, but instead of reseting your AA they set it to a predefined spec of your chosing

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:46 AM   #10
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I support the OP's post.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:48 AM   #11
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Hene wrote:

I think they are suggesting that you still pay the AA councelor, but instead of reseting your AA they set it to a predefined spec of your chosing

Sorry don't understand that.

Just let you have all the mirrors you want. Save it once disallow rewriting it is what I am suggesting.

You still have to pay for it.

You still have to remember to switch spec for the appropriate scenario, just like you have to know what ca or spell to cast and when.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:48 AM   #12
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I'd pay station cash for a 2nd AA mirror.  SOE make it happen would make you $$$!

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:53 AM   #13
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BChizzle wrote:

I'd pay station cash for a 2nd AA mirror.  SOE make it happen would make you $$$!

I wouldn't.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:57 AM   #14
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I would prefer to keep it in the EQ2 economy than add another item to the marketplace. Sheeeeesh! SOE gets more than their share of my money now.

(I have secretly hoarded 1000 reflective shards and anticipate getting 5 plat for each mirror )

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:02 PM   #15
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Ok, so this is probably going to be kinda "out there", and kinda derailing from what OP wants.  So before I start... I support OPs request.

I've always thought there should be some kind of "sand box" environment for AAs.  Let's say you pay the achievement guy 1p or whatever, and he'll either reset your AAs, or he can teleport you to an instance.  It can be as small as the spires event instance (that little bubble zone where the three groups of mobs spawn).  And basically, while you're in the zone you have unlimited AA respecs.  You can respec, and if you screw up, or realize you want to use those 5 points somewhere else, you can just reset it.  Once you leave the zone, you lose the ability to reset without paying the respec guy again.

What would be even better is if, in this instance, you have the equivalent of a training dummy guild hall ammenity, or maybe the ability to summon actual mobs.  This way you could test abilities and understand how certain AAs work without spending 1p to spec into them, 1p to spec back out of them, etc.

I used Test copy to do this one time, and it was really nice.  Just not very convenient.

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:10 PM   #16
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Stubbswick wrote:

I've always thought there should be some kind of "sand box" environment for AAs.  Let's say you pay the achievement guy 1p or whatever, and he'll either reset your AAs, or he can teleport you to an instance.  It can be as small as the spires event instance (that little bubble zone where the three groups of mobs spawn).  And basically, while you're in the zone you have unlimited AA respecs.  You can respec, and if you screw up, or realize you want to use those 5 points somewhere else, you can just reset it.  Once you leave the zone, you lose the ability to reset without paying the respec guy again.

What would be even better is if, in this instance, you have the equivalent of a training dummy guild hall ammenity, or maybe the ability to summon actual mobs.  This way you could test abilities and understand how certain AAs work without spending 1p to spec into them, 1p to spec back out of them, etc.

I used Test copy to do this one time, and it was really nice.  Just not very convenient.

This I could support.  The OP ... not so much.

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:10 PM   #17
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Stubbswick wrote:

Ok, so this is probably going to be kinda "out there", and kinda derailing from what OP wants.  So before I start... I support OPs request.

I've always thought there should be some kind of "sand box" environment for AAs.  Let's say you pay the achievement guy 1p or whatever, and he'll either reset your AAs, or he can teleport you to an instance.  It can be as small as the spires event instance (that little bubble zone where the three groups of mobs spawn).  And basically, while you're in the zone you have unlimited AA respecs.  You can respec, and if you screw up, or realize you want to use those 5 points somewhere else, you can just reset it.  Once you leave the zone, you lose the ability to reset without paying the respec guy again.

What would be even better is if, in this instance, you have the equivalent of a training dummy guild hall ammenity, or maybe the ability to summon actual mobs.  This way you could test abilities and understand how certain AAs work without spending 1p to spec into them, 1p to spec back out of them, etc.

I used Test copy to do this one time, and it was really nice.  Just not very convenient.

Regardless of the discussion about aa mirrors this is a really good idea in my opinion.

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:12 PM   #18
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Skwor wrote:

Please don't. There should be some tough choices with consequences in any game for it to be fun and challanging. We don't need to make ALL options the big win button.

        SIGNED

How is this for a radical theory:

An AA mirror isn't really a game breaker, if they did up the number of profiles you COULD simply not use the extra ones and therefore you could still have a tough time deciding on which of your 2 specs to run.  It wouldn't hurt you and it wouldnt affect your game whatsoever.  There, I fixed it SMILEY

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:14 PM   #19
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Having a specific instance with a dummy type thing and monster summoning thing with unlimited aa respecs while in the zone would be a nice addition.

I have test loaded permanently since I play over there, so is a non issue for me but for others it would be a very useful feature.

I however don't support the original posters idea of having multiple aa mirrors. We had that, SOE got rid of it some time ago. You already have the ability to respec as many times as you want, you just have to visit the counseler and pay your coin. Put setups you use most frequently on your mirror and pay up for the others. There needs to be some plat sinks in the game, this is one that is implimented pretty well imo.

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:20 PM   #20
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I actually do this right now within the rules of the game. It is just stupid, wasteful and time consuming. 

1 - I buy a respec of all three trees

2 - I create a new mirror of reflected achievments

3 - I spend one aa

4 - I save the essentially blank spec on the mirror

5 - I spec the way I want

When I want to change my Spec

1 - I load the essentially blank spec and save the current spec

2 - I destroy the mirror with the old spec on it

2 - I create a new mirror (or take one I have in stock) and save the current spec (the essentially blank spec)

3 - I then spec how I want.

Just rinse and repeat for every spec I want.

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“There are two tragedies in life. One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it.”

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:59 PM   #21
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Skwor wrote:

Please don't. There should be some tough choices with consequences in any game for it to be fun and challanging. We don't need to make ALL options the big win button.

If you want to redo a spec pay the plat, I could go for letting a person have saved profiles with the respec NPC but keep the cost.

I agree 100%

This game is dumbed down enough as it is

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Old 06-11-2010, 01:27 PM   #22
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I don't think aa's were ever intended to be so customizable that you would need a special set up just to blow your nose.

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Old 06-11-2010, 01:34 PM   #23
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I OP'd specific scenarios. Those opposed respond with a simple 'dumbs down' or 'easy button' with no detail. How does it dumb down or create an easy button? What does paying a vendor 10 plat add to the game? How is what I am suggesting a freebee? You would have to purchase and own a mirror for each spec you want to run.

You would have to know what is advantageous for a particular zone or endeavor and buy a mirror (or make one) and create a spec for that mirror. It would have to be an edevour that you did not have an adequate spec for right now, to spend the plat and effort to create and store a new one. Instead of dumbing it down or creating a make easy button I believe it would add to the richness and complexities of the game.

I like the idea of buying a mirror to reset and store one spec and not allow any other to be stored in that mirror. If you want a different spec then you have to buy a new mirror or consign someone to make it for you. I play a lot and I could buy a reset every day if I chose to why should I have that advantage over some of you?

As for price it should be the same price or more than what it costs me to do it right now. 

I used to run two specs, now I regularly use 4 specs, but it is awkward and time consuming and the process adds not one iota of enjoyability.

You think that developing multiple specs say 6 different specs is easier than 2 different specs? Hmmm, in my experience I have rarely if ever seen a case where adding choices simplifies the decision making process.

Should we then only allow you to carry one set of gear too? Or limit what classes you can put with what classes in a group? The dumb down or easy button is a spurious argument at best.

If this would make it too easy then what we ought to do is allow you to only one piece of equipment for each slot. So make a choice this set of shoulder or that? Now you can only choose one. Are you going to do only BG? Are you Only going to RAID? Are you only going to solo? Maybe you only want to craft? Make it a tough choice as you can only choose one. Same difference IMO.

Every top player I know maximizes thier options with choices according to zone regarding equipment, poisons, potions and group makeup, AA is absolutely no different. You have to know the effect you want and understand thouroughly the endeavor you want to pursue. All current system does is reward those who limit what they do and penalize those that want to fully explore the EQ2 environment. If you Only Group and BG the choice is easy and well met with two choices. There are a some of us who strive to enjoy and work to excel at every aspect of EQ2.

Easy Button or dumb down? C'Mon provide a real argument.

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Old 06-11-2010, 02:10 PM   #24
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Giving players more specs allows for more player flexibility and consequently more dev flexibility, as there can be more meaningful choices in AA builds. Limiting us to 2 specs actually prevents players from having to make those 'hard choices' - with more specs available, players are more likely to explore different possible AA specs, and the devs can introduce more specialized AA lines.

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Old 06-11-2010, 02:47 PM   #25
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Stubbswick wrote:

Ok, so this is probably going to be kinda "out there", and kinda derailing from what OP wants.  So before I start... I support OPs request.

I've always thought there should be some kind of "sand box" environment for AAs.  Let's say you pay the achievement guy 1p or whatever, and he'll either reset your AAs, or he can teleport you to an instance.  It can be as small as the spires event instance (that little bubble zone where the three groups of mobs spawn).  And basically, while you're in the zone you have unlimited AA respecs.  You can respec, and if you screw up, or realize you want to use those 5 points somewhere else, you can just reset it.  Once you leave the zone, you lose the ability to reset without paying the respec guy again.

What would be even better is if, in this instance, you have the equivalent of a training dummy guild hall ammenity, or maybe the ability to summon actual mobs.  This way you could test abilities and understand how certain AAs work without spending 1p to spec into them, 1p to spec back out of them, etc.

I used Test copy to do this one time, and it was really nice.  Just not very convenient.

I always use test copy to test my AA builds.

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Old 06-11-2010, 02:47 PM   #26
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EDIT: DOUBLE POST

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Old 06-11-2010, 04:11 PM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

I actually do this right now within the rules of the game. It is just stupid, wasteful and time consuming. 

1 - I buy a respec of all three trees

2 - I create a new mirror of reflected achievments

3 - I spend one aa

4 - I save the essentially blank spec on the mirror

5 - I spec the way I want

When I want to change my Spec

1 - I load the essentially blank spec and save the current spec

2 - I destroy the mirror with the old spec on it

2 - I create a new mirror (or take one I have in stock) and save the current spec (the essentially blank spec)

3 - I then spec how I want.

Just rinse and repeat for every spec I want.

Thanks for the great idea.  I really hate respeccing.  It's not fun and a simple click mistake can be very costly.

There isn't any such thing as "dumbing down" in a game.  That's a bogus fallacy argument to derail the discussion.  Something in a game is either fun or it's not.  Respeccing AA right now is not very fun.  The system could be made a lot more fun by changing how respec works, but that would take money and development time.  Allowing multiple mirrors would be a cheap way to allow respecs and take some of the unfun out of it.  Maybe there could be a status cost associated with mirror respecs or make mirrors a bit more costly or difficult to craft.

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Old 06-11-2010, 05:12 PM   #28
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What about this, SOE puts a mirror on the marketplace that allows only those who want to have more than two specs to spend RL cash to do so?

^ That's a joke but it is an alternative.

Personally I'm a Necro, I use a DPS / Group / Raid spec for everything, I don't own an AA mirror.

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Old 06-11-2010, 05:32 PM   #29
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

What about this, SOE puts a mirror on the marketplace that allows only those who want to have more than two specs to spend RL cash to do so?

^ That's a joke but it is an alternative.

Personally I'm a Necro, I use a DPS / Group / Raid spec for everything, I don't own an AA mirror.

They should marketplace a second mirror it would be a hot seller and fit into the whole useful but not manditory area they are trying to hit.  Of course people would be on here crying about it but then SOE would sell 50k of them at probably $10 a pop and laugh at the bottom line.

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Old 06-11-2010, 05:36 PM   #30
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Aldhissla wrote:

One mirror is NOT enough for every class.

This...

Play a Summoner.  We have 3 completely different routs to take and each one is specific to what pet you're using... and that's not even depentent on play style!

Then throw in PVP.. Personally I already play on a PVP server and this has been one of my biggest pet peves about the game.  When playing a Summoner, AA specs are COMPLETLY different depending on Group Play, Solo Play, and PVP Play.

Why can I only Play 2 of 3 play styles?  It's ridiculous

A new spec storage is LONG overdue.

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