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Old 05-08-2010, 03:01 PM   #1
Ralpmet

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Now, granted this was just the last match I had, but this basically sums up my experience with people that play blue servers;

So to sum it up; right off the bat, me as a coercer was the first person down there on my team, to my dismay to realize that only me and an assassin had jumped down. I thought to myself, well maybe those other 3 dots just didn't realize it started, so I politely said in group chat "Hey, the match started."

I spawn up, look at this warden, and while our entire team had run out and died, this warden just stood there. The second I voted afk, she buffs up, run down in a giant circle, then starts casting what I assume to be more buffs as they had no healing effect. Then continues to run in a giant circle again, and come back to the same spot to cast the same effect.

At this point I say "Hey guys I think we should report this warden it looks like a bot" and I receive replies from my entire team saying "I'm not a snitch just shut your **** and take your free token".  Great I'm thinking, a group with an afk warden and a bunch of 14 year olds, this is how I want to spend my time, losing the opportunity to earn 2 tokens more.

Seconds after everyone shut up the warden speaks up, "Don't report me I'm here, look I'm moving around", and some other scout on my team (not the assassin) says "yea we were just waiting for our third to show up and he never did"

Oh, ok, that's acceptable I'm thinking, I mean, the group didn't catch the 6th member until 1:30 in, so maybe there's validity in that, spending time in vent trying to get a hold of someone or something. Not really an excuse to let everyone else die and your team get so far behind, but it's still at a point where a comeback could be staged. Then I tell them where the relic is, and say if we all push with heals we'll be ok and we could burst down the relic and the warden could keep whoever had the relic up without any issues.

And once again to my dismay, the warden says "I'm not healing you **** just take your free tokens"

At no point was I slanderous, or bossy, or anything a long any lines of provocation. So what's with being put in random pugs time after time again that aren't even going to try? They just want the free 1 token? What the heck is that? Definitely need to start finding more groups serverside I guess.

This is an example of a match where the whole team contributed, look at the massive difference in people who try in my group versus people who don't.

Here's a Ganak with a pub that contributed just prior to this match, where my pug was against the people that were in my group ^^

I could literally upload every single battlegrounds i've been in as they all save screenshots, and it's either one way or the other. People care, or people don't. And whichever way the mood of the team goes my dps and contributions go the same way, regardless of my effort. This is bullcrap and people need to be punished for it.

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Old 05-08-2010, 03:03 PM   #2
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Everyone on a blue server fails apparently!

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Old 05-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #3
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I'm not talking one match, I'm not talking about all blue server people.

What I'm saying is in my 30 or so pug matches that have been negatively influenced, 29 of them were by people from blue servers who simply didn't want to be there but wanted the gear. That's pretty lame, don't ruin content for everyone because you're lazy.

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Old 05-08-2010, 04:10 PM   #4
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the point of it is yes, most people on a blue server have ZERO interest in PVP. none. (hence why they are on a blue server) but, the devs have loaded up the BG gear with so many procs and such that work in PvE, that they want the gear. they'd rather do nothing, get 1 token, adn jump back in then actually attempt to fight the battle. The more they fight, the longer the match, the fewer matches they can shove into thier playtime.

some of the BG stuff you only see on raid gear. things like Torrent, Fatal Lifetap, for example. So if you don't raid, you do BGs for the proccing gear. and you want to do as many as possible as you can fit in to ramp up those token amounts.

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Old 05-08-2010, 04:15 PM   #5
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Yeah, people give up all the time.  I kinda wish teams that got completely blown out didn't even get a single token, but that would suck for the teams who actually do try in those situations but are just outmatched.

From the sounds of it, I wonder if that Warden had a separate account on the other team that he was trying to help win...it has happened before /shrug.

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Old 05-08-2010, 04:16 PM   #6
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There are lazy good-for-nothings on all servers.  Seen plenty from various, blue/red alike.  Creating artificial global labels is silly.

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Old 05-08-2010, 04:49 PM   #7
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Here's the sum of my experience so far:

Playing a priest:  Miserable experience unless I'm in a guild premade and we're all in Vent.Playing a mage:  Mildly entertaining.Playing a scout:  Pretty fun no matter what the group make-up is.Playing a fighter:  Mildly entertaining.

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Old 05-08-2010, 05:19 PM   #8
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Screw that man I'd rather play my Inq in there than my coercer after today's runs. At least on my inq I know i'm gonna stay alive if I run into one scout, and it's going to take more than 2 people on their team to kill me, and I can hold the relic for as long as I can outheal the damage.

Zoning into bg's in pug on my coercer is like shaking dice, 1/8 times I've gotten a healer that did their job, 1/4 times I've gotten a tank that could hold down the group , a 1/3 chance of getting a healer who is going to run solo.

And in all of the pugs i've done I've run into at least 2 people on my team (even in raids, just on my team alone there will be 2 people, always in pugs) that do less than 15k in any field that they should be excelling in, (Damage on dps classes, heals on healing classes, damage recieved on tank classes). It's just gross.  Single players shouldn't be able to ruin group experiences simply because they don't know the people, that's bogus.

*edit- And before anyone calls me out on the fact I didn't do over 15k in that match, their scout was killing me instantly, so I'd pop PoM and run in and get a spell off then die, wait for it again and do it again. I was much more concerned with the fact that our team didn't have a chance at any point and was trying to figure out what was going on.

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Old 05-08-2010, 07:35 PM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

the point of it is yes, most people on a blue server have ZERO interest in PVP. none. (hence why they are on a blue server) but, the devs have loaded up the BG gear with so many procs and such that work in PvE, that they want the gear. they'd rather do nothing, get 1 token, adn jump back in then actually attempt to fight the battle. The more they fight, the longer the match, the fewer matches they can shove into thier playtime.

some of the BG stuff you only see on raid gear. things like Torrent, Fatal Lifetap, for example. So if you don't raid, you do BGs for the proccing gear. and you want to do as many as possible as you can fit in to ramp up those token amounts.

way to ruin the game play of others

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Old 05-08-2010, 08:33 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

the point of it is yes, most people on a blue server have ZERO interest in PVP. none. (hence why they are on a blue server) but, the devs have loaded up the BG gear with so many procs and such that work in PvE, that they want the gear. they'd rather do nothing, get 1 token, adn jump back in then actually attempt to fight the battle. The more they fight, the longer the match, the fewer matches they can shove into thier playtime.

some of the BG stuff you only see on raid gear. things like Torrent, Fatal Lifetap, for example. So if you don't raid, you do BGs for the proccing gear. and you want to do as many as possible as you can fit in to ramp up those token amounts.

Umm...The less you fight, The longer the match will take, because dying gives the other team points faster...Just saying

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Old 05-08-2010, 08:43 PM   #11
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I'm embarrassed now that I can step back and look at it.  These people who AFK and leech tokens and experience have the right plan.  Why play your butt off when idiot teamates drag you down and cause a loss?  Or go AFK?  Or intentionally screw up the group composition?  Collect tokens win or lose AND the same amount of experience while they surf a forum like this?  Sign me up!

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Old 05-08-2010, 08:46 PM   #12
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I like how you punish other players because you suck at playing this game.

The best part is how you are rewarded for it, what a joke.

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Old 05-08-2010, 10:26 PM   #13
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It's kind of like a cancerous tumour of cheating is encouraged to grow whenever SOE turns a blind eye on exploiters abusing the system.

Sure would be nice if SOE would boot more exploiters out of BeeGees to stop those lamers from spoiling the fun.

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Old 05-08-2010, 11:12 PM   #14
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If there was some form of stratification it would help.

I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.

It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.

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Old 05-08-2010, 11:22 PM   #15
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TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:

If there was some form of stratification it would help.

I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.

It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.

It's extremely easy to blame them, what are you talking about. If you aren't out there putting any effort into the match, you aren't learning anything and you will continue to fail as a BG/PvP player. The best way to learn in BG/PvP is trial by fire as much as it stinks, even if you are undergeared. Then when you can finally do decent undergeared, you will be a formitable player with decent/good gear. If you opt to just afk, you are cheating yourself and your team

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Old 05-08-2010, 11:44 PM   #16
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Crismorn wrote:

I like how you punish other players because you suck at playing this game.

The best part is how you are rewarded for it, what a joke.

I think a wise man once said.. suck it up, buttercup?

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Old 05-09-2010, 12:05 AM   #17
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TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:

I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided.

Matches are guaranteed to be one-sided when exploiters deliberately sabotage the contests. 

Maybe the issue is more that exploiters are confused by how complicated the entire concept of BeeGees is supposed to work.  Perhaps we should put together a helpful Frequent "Battle-Slackers" (B.S.) Excuses list to assist the cheaters improve their gameplay experience - I'll start it out with a few common excuses:

Battle Slacker Excuse: "they have healers, we have none!"Solution: kill their healers so the other side no longer has heals.

Battle Slacker Excuse: "people keep voting me AFK when I try to cheat!"Solution: stop being a cheating scumbag and play an honest game.

Battle Slacker Excuse: "SOE made all of this FOTM gear and left in honour-system loopholes for scumbags like me to exploit, so I'm forced to cheat the system because I have no ethics worth spitting on!"Solution: type in the special cheating scumbag's command: "/quit" to claim your reward.  Repeat every time you log in to improve gameplay on your home server.

Feel free to contribute more to the B.S. Excuses list!

 

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Old 05-09-2010, 12:50 AM   #18
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StaticLex wrote:

Crismorn wrote:

I like how you punish other players because you suck at playing this game.

The best part is how you are rewarded for it, what a joke.

I think a wise man once said.. suck it up, buttercup?

I've been thinking about it a bit more and tbh I no longer care, afk all the gear you want.  Chances are you would not even know what gear to wear.

You could save yourself alot of trouble and just dont even bother joining bg's, gear wont help players of your caliber

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Old 05-09-2010, 04:06 AM   #19
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when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.

yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.

of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.

you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.

but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.

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Old 05-09-2010, 12:06 PM   #20
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I have encountered more than a fair share of incompetent, and afking players from PVP servers.It is a game wide issue, not a PVE server issue.

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Old 05-09-2010, 01:14 PM   #21
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Personally I think the OP is full of (BLEEP).  The vast majority of matches are winnable.  The reasons I lose are in this order:

1. Folks not understanding ___________.  Maybe it's their class (e.g. lack of taunts, etc.)  Or maybe it's the fine subtleties of the match (e.g. what to do when you have the lead in Ganak's and both teams have the flags).  Or maybe they're running around like it's a McDonald's playland going "PEW PEW PEW!".  That's just how PUGs go sometimes.

2. It was a good fight, but I just ended up on the losing side.  I don't mind losing this way at all.

3.  Lack of leadership.  Folks in the match generally knew what to do.  But their wasn't that cohesion to lead them.  You can get away with that in Gears and Ganak's.  But an unled Smugglers can be disasterous. 

4.  Matchmaker.  Didn't have the classes we needed.

5.  A superior Nag team vs your PUG.  After a while you KNOW who those players are.  e.g. I keep wailing on this wizard named Gottii and he's standing there like a tank mowing people down.  When you encounter #5, just play the match out and move to one of the other BGs.  Some of these BGs will just keep pitting you up against the same crew over & over.  #5 happens in only a small percentage of my matches.

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Old 05-09-2010, 03:20 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.

I've got some hardmode pieces as well as raid jewelry and I'm pretty sure I get owned in the face worse when I use that in BGs than when I use the toughness gear.  So basically gear is not an excuse IMO.

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Old 05-09-2010, 05:56 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.

yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.

of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.

you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.

but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.

Theres 2 PvP servers because for so long they were neglected and got absolutely no attention when it came to fixing issues which in turn drove people away, then when they tried to "Fix" things they made them even worse by going from one extreme to another. It has nothing to do with incentives, PVP servers were booming at first and there were no rewards, just the enjoyment of fighting other players.

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Old 05-09-2010, 11:26 PM   #24
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but that's part of it. yes, people on Pvp servers enjoy fighting other players. most people on blue servers don't. that's why they rolled on a blue server. I'll take my guild for example. there's maybe 5 people that use the BGs out of close to 100 accounts. all of them stopped playing on the bgs the second they got the tokens to buy the gear, and only did the bgs for the procs on said gear.

like I said I'd wager that if they didn't make super powered PvE effects on the bg gear, then most blue server players wouldn't even bother with it.

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Old 05-09-2010, 11:51 PM   #25
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Most of the BG gear is crap, and most of the people roll on PvE for a totally different reason. It's because most of the people that start this game have a friend that brought them in, and most of their friends were settled into PvE servers and guilds by the time PvP in this game was launched, it's not just because of a dislike of the playstyle. I'll take another step here and say for a lot of PvE players BGs reinvigorated their interest in the game and kept them play or brought them back, even in all the bugs they had.

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Old 05-10-2010, 12:00 AM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

but that's part of it. yes, people on Pvp servers enjoy fighting other players. most people on blue servers don't. that's why they rolled on a blue server. I'll take my guild for example. there's maybe 5 people that use the BGs out of close to 100 accounts. all of them stopped playing on the bgs the second they got the tokens to buy the gear, and only did the bgs for the procs on said gear.

like I said I'd wager that if they didn't make super powered PvE effects on the bg gear, then most blue server players wouldn't even bother with it.

They dont.

I never understood why some people find it so difficult to understand how gear in eq2 works

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Old 05-10-2010, 12:09 AM   #27
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Ralpmet wrote:

People care, or people don't. And whichever way the mood of the team goes my dps and contributions go the same way, regardless of my effort. This is bullcrap and people need to be punished for it.

Updated OP, and this will remain the case forever it feels like.

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Old 05-10-2010, 01:57 AM   #28
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plenty of scrubs and slackers on nagafen too.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:29 AM   #29
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Ralpmet wrote:

Ralpmet wrote:

People care, or people don't. And whichever way the mood of the team goes my dps and contributions go the same way, regardless of my effort. This is bullcrap and people need to be punished for it.

Updated OP, and this will remain the case forever it feels like.

Looking at your screenshots, it really looks like the gist of your complaint is that you want to be on teams with players who will carry you. In the first screenshot, you were demolished not really because of incompetent groupmates (you all basically looked the same in terms of what you accomplished), but because the other side had two good wardens and Bloodclaws, who's a pretty decent brigand in the 80-89 set I've fought a lot. In the second screenshot, your team was absolutely carried by an assassin who was totally out of the league of the rest of your team and one of the decent wardens you fought against. The third was kind of a wash - your team lost despite having a brute force advantage because the other side had better flag snatchers (they captured twice to your once, assuming the dirge and templar with the 0 kills and almost nothing else were the snatchers).

I don't think you have a lot of room to complain. There's some nagafen players in the 80-89 set who do have an almost insurmountable gear edge from the pvp sets for that range, but that's mostly well-geared crusader alts who are virtually unkillable compared to other people in that range. But unless you just happen to be grouped with one of em and watch them win a match single-handedly, you need to work with what you have, and that usually means compensating for weak players.

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Old 05-10-2010, 11:37 AM   #30
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I'm on a class that relies on the effort of my team. I'm not looking for anyone to "carry me", I'm looking for people to do what they're supposed to in bgs instead of simply afking or refusing to play their part in a win.

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