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Old 03-17-2010, 12:29 AM   #1
Malvin
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Why do we have icons above our heads that tells everybody what class you are?  That doesn't make any sense to me.  As a healer, it makes you basically a kill on sight target which can be very frustrating.  Part of the fun of BGs should be class identification.. what are you fighting, how do you fight it etc.. it shouldn't be... "Oh, there is a green icon, kill it before the red icon!"

Come on, take that crap out.  We aren't a bunch of WoW kids here, make it interesting.

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Old 03-17-2010, 01:07 AM   #2
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I wondered about this as well. I am not sure why they have it, they certainly didn’t have it when I played on PVP. I first zoned into battlegrounds with appearance armor to try and hide what class I was and yes I often play as my healer. Most players especially the good ones, will work out what class you are fairly quickly, but with the symbols displayed over head I think it over simplifies it.  I got rid of my appearance armor and weapons as soon as I realized that it was pointless. Now I have to hope that I get grouped with a good tank.

I would prefer if the symbols were removed or maybe you could see them only with-in your group/raid.

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Old 03-17-2010, 01:27 AM   #3
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Remove the icons near our name. Remove the ability to see our classes (Stripping a players /anonymous or /roleplaying when you enter a BG). Another thing I'd like to see removed is the persons class icon on the scoreboard, if there was a way to make it only show up AFTER the match was over that would be cool. Oh and being able to /who the other team ftl!

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Old 03-17-2010, 02:37 AM   #4
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Gee, it almost sounds like two teams facing up for a sporting contest isn't what you want. You've got your overland pvp if you want it, why're you wanting to turn bg's into the same open pvp stuff?
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:43 AM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

Gee, it almost sounds like two teams facing up for a sporting contest isn't what you want. You've got your overland pvp if you want it, why're you wanting to turn bg's into the same open pvp stuff?

except, any player worth anything can identify what class someone is by buffs alone in a second, You does there need to be gimme easy mode

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Old 03-17-2010, 03:09 AM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:

except, any player worth anything can..

Yep, thats the stuff we dont want from nagafen. Well spotted SMILEY

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Old 03-17-2010, 03:13 AM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

Gee, it almost sounds like two teams facing up for a sporting contest isn't what you want. You've got your overland pvp if you want it, why're you wanting to turn bg's into the same open pvp stuff?

I am just saying that the over head class signs over simplify the match. It could be more tactical if these were not visible. Do you not want to have the other team guessing to what classes are with you? Strength and weakness...?  I guess it is simply up to the community on how much of a challenge we want from it.

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Old 03-17-2010, 03:51 AM   #8
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I'm sure it's there so people can't be completely disguised to thwart specific class targetting.

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Old 03-17-2010, 06:27 AM   #9
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even if they got rid of it all you'd have to do is hit ALT-S to bring up the scoreboard and get the healers name for your targeting hotkey.   /target server.name

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Old 03-17-2010, 01:38 PM   #10
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Fail to see what your getting at, raiders,even groupers should know what buffs diff classes bring to a group and what they look like

Was supposed to quote shaunfletcher but my ipod doesn't allow quoting apparently

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Old 03-17-2010, 04:19 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

even if they got rid of it all you'd have to do is hit ALT-S to bring up the scoreboard and get the healers name for your targeting hotkey.   /target server.name

This is why Narocs suggestion is the best, Remove them from there too until the end of the match, Then show

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Old 03-17-2010, 04:41 PM   #12
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I like them in the raids at least. Not for the other team, but for mine. I get pulled in mid battle (thank you queuing system). I don't have time to check every one. I run. I see a tank. I toss the buffs on them I need to. I move on. I try to get my group buffs right, but the cross raid stuff I don't have time to even think about.
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Old 03-17-2010, 04:42 PM   #13
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Whenever my target snaps to someone, i just hit tab.  maybe it tabs to a tank, but usually not.  if you're not a tank, i'm going to keep hitting you.  I'll assume i can kill you, and judging by how it's gone so far, it's much better than average you'll die. 

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Old 03-17-2010, 04:50 PM   #14
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vexrm wrote:

I like them in the raids at least. Not for the other team, but for mine. I get pulled in mid battle (thank you queuing system). I don't have time to check every one. I run. I see a tank. I toss the buffs on them I need to. I move on. I try to get my group buffs right, but the cross raid stuff I don't have time to even think about.

Yeah, Of course the normal raid window would pop up for your team, but dont' need more than that

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Old 03-17-2010, 05:02 PM   #15
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You can just look at their buffs to determine which class they are, even if they were removed, what is the point?
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Old 03-17-2010, 05:08 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

You can just look at their buffs to determine which class they are, even if they were removed, what is the point?

Thats exactly the point, Why do they need to dumb it down even more, and strip /anon and /rp to force expose the classes of everyone when we can just look at buffs as it is

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Old 03-17-2010, 06:15 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

You can just look at their buffs to determine which class they are, even if they were removed, what is the point?

Thats exactly the point, Why do they need to dumb it down even more, and strip /anon and /rp to force expose the classes of everyone when we can just look at buffs as it is

They certainly should strip anon and rp. that nonsense should be off in pvp too it has always been a foolish thing the way it is used there, especially rp. Dont see a lot of you guuys roleplaying to  be frank.

I see the thought about the icons, but for players unused to playing pvp the habit of recognising people from their buffs is NOT as easy as you make it out to be because those players have likely never looked at buffs that way. It would just make it very confusing for noobs and give experienced pvpers an advantage. Thats not needed in any way.

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Old 03-17-2010, 06:45 PM   #18
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shaunfletcher wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

You can just look at their buffs to determine which class they are, even if they were removed, what is the point?

Thats exactly the point, Why do they need to dumb it down even more, and strip /anon and /rp to force expose the classes of everyone when we can just look at buffs as it is

They certainly should strip anon and rp. that nonsense should be off in pvp too it has always been a foolish thing the way it is used there, especially rp. Dont see a lot of you guuys roleplaying to  be frank.

I see the thought about the icons, but for players unused to playing pvp the habit of recognising people from their buffs is NOT as easy as you make it out to be because those players have likely never looked at buffs that way. It would just make it very confusing for noobs and give experienced pvpers an advantage. Thats not needed in any way.

Jesus, Lets give everyone nerf bats, the same armor, drunk goggles IRL, and lob off both their arms IRL  to insure everything is fair for everyone. That won't happen. Most people PvE or PvP alike should know what buffs from different classes look like. If they don't, it's their own fault and need to learn fast.

Why shouldn't we get /anon? Nobody uses /rp really on Naggy seeing as they can still see location using it.

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Old 03-17-2010, 07:12 PM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

Jesus, Lets give everyone nerf bats, the same armor, drunk goggles IRL, and lob off both their arms IRL  to insure everything is fair for everyone. That won't happen. Most people PvE or PvP alike should know what buffs from different classes look like. If they don't, it's their own fault and need to learn fast.

Why shouldn't we get /anon? Nobody uses /rp really on Naggy seeing as they can still see location using it.

Nice strawman.

Ive said it to you before, and Ill say it again. PvPers and hardcore players (and yes, I can recognise people from buffs if I have to) do not NEED any further advantages. Asking for this particular change would only affect noobs, and therefore only serve to allow you to grind noobs into the dust even faster, causing them to leave and learn nothing. Is that really what you want?

I mean what is your aim here? BGs to have noone but those who are committed BGers or PvP players in them? Drive the noobs out entirely? If so then thats not what the devs put them there for, ergo they arent going to do things that tend that way.

Its you asking for the change here.. the icons are there, you have to justify their removal. All that silly stuff at the start of your post might make sense if people were asking for changes to make skill less important than it is right now (and lets be frank, it is something like 60% of the result, gear being 30 and luck being the rest) but noone is, and NO changes have been put in to reduce the impact of skill.

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Old 03-17-2010, 07:15 PM   #20
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shaunfletcher wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

You can just look at their buffs to determine which class they are, even if they were removed, what is the point?

Thats exactly the point, Why do they need to dumb it down even more, and strip /anon and /rp to force expose the classes of everyone when we can just look at buffs as it is

They certainly should strip anon and rp. that nonsense should be off in pvp too it has always been a foolish thing the way it is used there, especially rp. Dont see a lot of you guuys roleplaying to  be frank.

I see the thought about the icons, but for players unused to playing pvp the habit of recognising people from their buffs is NOT as easy as you make it out to be because those players have likely never looked at buffs that way. It would just make it very confusing for noobs and give experienced pvpers an advantage. Thats not needed in any way.

Noobs are noobs for a reason, they are either new to the game or just plain terrible. Im sorry to break this disturbing news to you as I'm not entirely sure if you realize it but in this game you actually have to learn certain mechanics and in this case buff icons to succeed. Every person who started out on PvP was a complete noob at one point. Ask some of the really good pve players and I guarantee most of them can identify a class within 10 seconds of targetting them. The stripping of /anon and /rp is simply not needed. I don't see any problem with seperating the really good players from the really bad ones. Refer to my earlier post for my suggestions.

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Old 03-17-2010, 07:25 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Noobs are noobs for a reason, they are either new to the game or just plain terrible. Im sorry to break this disturbing news to you as I'm not entirely sure if you realize it but in this game you actually have to learn certain mechanics and in this case buff icons to succeed. Every person who started out on PvP was a complete noob at one point. Ask some of the really good pve players and I guarantee most of them can identify a class within 10 seconds of targetting them. The stripping of /anon and /rp is simply not needed. I don't see any problem with seperating the really good players from the really bad ones. Refer to my earlier post for my suggestions.

10 seconds? You are playing an odd kind of battlegrounds if you are alive 10 seconds after targeting if you spent  your time worrying about the class. I can identify in a lot less than that and Im not really good.

The problem is I think that you want battlegrounds to be naggy in a box. It isnt, it is meant to also provide fun for those new to the game or terrible players as you put it. Being your fodder is not in the end fun. Come on, be realistic.. they are prety much fodder NOW. How many obvious noobs do you slaughter in BGs? lots right? I know I do and Im no hardcore PvPer. The thing is, they arent committed to PvP like they would be if they joined naggy, they are doing it for a bit of extra fun, and will just not do it if it is pure frustration, so giving them a bit of a starting leg up is a good thing.

Make it fun and they will stay and will eventually get better, and some of them will eventually go play PvP.

(I have an admission to make which should give  you a laugh.. I didnt actually notice the icons for a week, till someone complained about them on here. I was too busy playing the game as I am used to playing PvP, recognising people by the usual signs. Of course now I know they are there I use them, mainly to instantly see which groups have tanks and healers in in my own sides raid window.)

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Old 03-17-2010, 09:42 PM   #22
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YES!! Another plea to the powers that be to get rid of the bright neon billboard over my name announcing my class and allow /anon to work.

Battlegrounds does not need to be dumbed down with these silly icons.

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Old 03-17-2010, 10:34 PM   #23
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shaunfletcher wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Jesus, Lets give everyone nerf bats, the same armor, drunk goggles IRL, and lob off both their arms IRL  to insure everything is fair for everyone. That won't happen. Most people PvE or PvP alike should know what buffs from different classes look like. If they don't, it's their own fault and need to learn fast.

Why shouldn't we get /anon? Nobody uses /rp really on Naggy seeing as they can still see location using it.

Nice strawman.

Ive said it to you before, and Ill say it again. PvPers and hardcore players (and yes, I can recognise people from buffs if I have to) do not NEED any further advantages. Asking for this particular change would only affect noobs, and therefore only serve to allow you to grind noobs into the dust even faster, causing them to leave and learn nothing. Is that really what you want?

I mean what is your aim here? BGs to have noone but those who are committed BGers or PvP players in them? Drive the noobs out entirely? If so then thats not what the devs put them there for, ergo they arent going to do things that tend that way.

Its you asking for the change here.. the icons are there, you have to justify their removal. All that silly stuff at the start of your post might make sense if people were asking for changes to make skill less important than it is right now (and lets be frank, it is something like 60% of the result, gear being 30 and luck being the rest) but noone is, and NO changes have been put in to reduce the impact of skill.

You're right, everyone should log right in and have even fights and know everything there is about the game, even noobs. They have to learn the game like everyone else. Should we cater to people who "dont" know the buff icons yet? Or should we give them time to learn the game before they jump right into pvp or BG's?

This game has been dumbed down enough.

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Old 03-17-2010, 10:39 PM   #24
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convict wrote:

You're right, everyone should log right in and have even fights and know everything there is about the game, even noobs. They have to learn the game like everyone else. Should we cater to people who "dont" know the buff icons yet? Or should we give them time to learn the game before they jump right into pvp or BG's?

This game has been dumbed down enough.

Read post before replying. I am not asking for anything to be dumbed down or changed, YOU are asking for something to be made more difficult.

This implies pretty specifically that you currently think noobs have too easy a time in battlefields. As that position is unsupportable on any rational basis I would question your reasons for putting it forward.

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Old 03-18-2010, 12:12 AM   #25
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We don't have any plans to remove the archetype indicators.

Open PvP and Battlegrounds are two different types of gameplay styles.  Things that work well in one setting won't always be the best for the other setting.

If players want the full open-world PvP experience, we still encourage them to roll characters on those servers.  Battlegrounds are not dumbed-down PvP, it should be looked at as a different experience.  If you're a hardcore PvP'er, you might not like them and thats ok.  But as it is now, Battlegrounds are very popular to both PvP and PvE players.  If we make them too much like one style or the other, they might not be as attractive to the other side of the population.

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Old 03-18-2010, 04:01 AM   #26
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Hey Roth, I got one shotted by a wizard today, he did a 21k fusion to my face SMILEY I thought this was fixed (on nagafen)

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Old 03-18-2010, 04:26 AM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

Hey Roth, I got one shotted by a wizard today, he did a 21k fusion to my face I thought this was fixed (on nagafen)

no first they are going to put it on test-copy to test it out. not sure if it has even been done on test-copy yet.

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Old 03-18-2010, 05:42 AM   #28
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Meanwhile I can Devastation Fist a wizard for 0, love it.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:15 AM   #29
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Rothgar wrote:

We don't have any plans to remove the archetype indicators.

Open PvP and Battlegrounds are two different types of gameplay styles.  Things that work well in one setting won't always be the best for the other setting.

If players want the full open-world PvP experience, we still encourage them to roll characters on those servers.  Battlegrounds are not dumbed-down PvP, it should be looked at as a different experience.  If you're a hardcore PvP'er, you might not like them and thats ok.  But as it is now, Battlegrounds are very popular to both PvP and PvE players.  If we make them too much like one style or the other, they might not be as attractive to the other side of the population.

Thank you so much for this post.

It's about time both sides, pve and pvp realise that BG's are their own space with their own rules.

Oh and thanks for the Bg's loving them, cept those dastardly sorcs when Legionarries Conviction is down SMILEY

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Old 03-18-2010, 10:03 AM   #30
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Rothgar wrote:

We don't have any plans to remove the archetype indicators.

Open PvP and Battlegrounds are two different types of gameplay styles.  Things that work well in one setting won't always be the best for the other setting.

If players want the full open-world PvP experience, we still encourage them to roll characters on those servers.  Battlegrounds are not dumbed-down PvP, it should be looked at as a different experience.  If you're a hardcore PvP'er, you might not like them and thats ok.  But as it is now, Battlegrounds are very popular to both PvP and PvE players.  If we make them too much like one style or the other, they might not be as attractive to the other side of the population.

Well you are messing up our Open pvp experience.

Everytime we go to a BG it turns our Annon and Roleplay tags off, so guess what? When you zone back home it keeps those tags off, so now in open world pvp they can planly see your class type, even thoug for the past few years you may have had that hidden. Unless after every BG you turn them back on = lame.

That sucks.

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