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Old 05-11-2012, 03:44 PM   #1
Terrogaunt

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Hello again! This thread is being created for feedback and bugs pertaining to the quest icons that appear next to the name of mobs who are a target for the current stage of your quest.

If you have any feedback on this or run into any issues with particular situations, be sure to reply with details to be looks into!

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Old 05-11-2012, 04:12 PM   #2
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In Darklight Woods, the quest 'Searching for Sigils', the Sablevein pulverizers don't have the quest target icon.

I wonder if this is because killing the mob doesn't update the quest but getting the drop from the mob does.

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Old 05-11-2012, 04:29 PM   #3
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Gravy wrote:

In Darklight Woods, the quest 'Searching for Sigils', the Sablevein pulverizers don't have the quest target icon.

I wonder if this is because killing the mob doesn't update the quest but getting the drop from the mob does.

Same issue with Picking Up Slack. The skeleton doesn't have the icon above it. Again, this is a quest that is updated not from killing the mob, but from the drop after killing.

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Old 05-11-2012, 04:41 PM   #4
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Gravy wrote:

In Darklight Woods, the quest 'Searching for Sigils', the Sablevein pulverizers don't have the quest target icon.

I wonder if this is because killing the mob doesn't update the quest but getting the drop from the mob does.

That's exactly right. The mechanic is currently setup to check the mob to see if they themselves are a target, but it doesn't know what the mob is going to drop.

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Old 05-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #5
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Gravy wrote:

In Darklight Woods, the quest 'Searching for Sigils', the Sablevein pulverizers don't have the quest target icon.

I wonder if this is because killing the mob doesn't update the quest but getting the drop from the mob does.

That's exactly right. The mechanic is currently setup to check the mob to see if they themselves are a target, but it doesn't know what the mob is going to drop.

Ideally though, the system should be intelligent enough to tell you if the mob is needed for a quest, regardless of if it's the death of the mob itself, or if the mob drops the quest updates. 

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Old 05-12-2012, 07:21 AM   #6
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More than ideally I would say it's almost necessary. Otherwise it is going to create confusion for anyone new to the game and new to the system itself when quest update mobs you need to kill for w/e reason are *sometimes* marked. Surely you can do something like, when a needed item is in a mobs loot table in the database, the mob is marked. Or the item is 'marked' in code to mark any mob that holds it in its loot table.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:50 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

More than ideally I would say it's almost necessary. Otherwise it is going to create confusion for anyone new to the game and new to the system itself when quest update mobs you need to kill for w/e reason are *sometimes* marked. Surely you can do something like, when a needed item is in a mobs loot table in the database, the mob is marked. Or the item is 'marked' in code to mark any mob that holds it in its loot table.

Agreed. Without this it isn't 'mobs you need for quests will have an icon'. It's 'for some quests, some mobs you need may or may not have an icon idicating that you've got a quest you need them for'.Better off with no 'needed for quest' icon then one that only works sometimes.

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Old 05-13-2012, 09:16 AM   #8
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Scale Yard - Gone, but not forgotten (Micha Longtail)

We need to fight prisonners dressed in orange and beat them. When they drop to 0%, they turn into an NPC that'll follow you. The orange prisonner don't use the icon (due to the update being on the NPC, not on the mob before I suppose).

In the same zone, I'm needing some Rogue Informants for Imprisoned Friends and Foes (Galla Silvering). I thought that all the rogue informants were aggro but now I just stumbled on 3 that are not. I wondered if the new tag is changing something or if I have remembering troubles.

Same question for the rioting prisoners in Scale Yard - The Uprising for Changing Hoods (Captain Siren)

I'm surprised. I don't like the change (but I didn't like the overhead quest book for quest updates to start with, nor the POI/ROI so I'm consistent), but the icon is surprisingly discreet. Good point for you!

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Old 05-14-2012, 04:48 AM   #9
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I think the current system is more then helpful. Any more help and the dev would have to come to your house and do the quest for you.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:28 AM   #10
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Mermut wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

More than ideally I would say it's almost necessary. Otherwise it is going to create confusion for anyone new to the game and new to the system itself when quest update mobs you need to kill for w/e reason are *sometimes* marked. Surely you can do something like, when a needed item is in a mobs loot table in the database, the mob is marked. Or the item is 'marked' in code to mark any mob that holds it in its loot table.

Agreed. Without this it isn't 'mobs you need for quests will have an icon'. It's 'for some quests, some mobs you need may or may not have an icon idicating that you've got a quest you need them for'.Better off with no 'needed for quest' icon then one that only works sometimes.

I also concur. Either do it right or don't do it at all.

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Old 05-14-2012, 09:29 AM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

I think the current system is more then helpful. Any more help and the dev would have to come to your house and do the quest for you.

Not if you are bypassing the mobs you need because the displayed information is "wrong."

Think about it. How may qeusts in the game have drops that you need to loot in order to further the quest? I remember recently runnin through some of the KP quests and there were certainly a bunch. So the indicators on all those quests are going to be wrong?

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Old 05-14-2012, 02:18 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

Scale Yard - Gone, but not forgotten (Micha Longtail)

We need to fight prisonners dressed in orange and beat them. When they drop to 0%, they turn into an NPC that'll follow you. The orange prisonner don't use the icon (due to the update being on the NPC, not on the mob before I suppose).

Quests like this are doing manual updates in a variety of different ways. I'm actually going through a whole heap of quests like that right now and manually adding the proper flags for it to show. Pointing this one out brought me to another test case to make sure of, so thanks for the info!

As for the treasure drops from mobs that update the quest, we'll be looking into seeing if we can get that in as well.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:50 PM   #13
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You're welcome, it's the reason why I posted it here as it's a different mechanic than the "killing the mob updates" or "mob drops a quest update"

I finished the Freeport timeline and found no other type of "broken" quests. Some require to go near NPC or talk to them for them to spawn the killable mob. Of course the NPC doesn't have the quest target icon but the killable mob just after has it. Don't think the NPC should have it anyway (and it's tied to the mob being an actual mob I suppose).

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Old 05-15-2012, 02:33 PM   #14
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ReddyKY wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I think the current system is more then helpful. Any more help and the dev would have to come to your house and do the quest for you.

Not if you are bypassing the mobs you need because the displayed information is "wrong."

Think about it. How may qeusts in the game have drops that you need to loot in order to further the quest? I remember recently runnin through some of the KP quests and there were certainly a bunch. So the indicators on all those quests are going to be wrong?

Umm I pay attention to the quests I have for said zone and look at the mobs names. If I need that mob for what ever reason I get it. It isn't that hard you just have to put out a little bit of effort.

What quest has the "wrong" displayed information about what mob is needed? If that is your issue what are you going to do when the "wrong" mob has the icon above their heads or what not?

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Old 05-15-2012, 03:19 PM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

Umm I pay attention to the quests I have for said zone and look at the mobs names. If I need that mob for what ever reason I get it. It isn't that hard you just have to put out a little bit of effort.

What quest has the "wrong" displayed information about what mob is needed? If that is your issue what are you going to do when the "wrong" mob has the icon above their heads or what not?

ooooh, I missed that point. It will be very very handy on Storms, Valor and Russian servers with our bad localisation (traditionnally, the translation team gets a text, translate it, then the quest target is changed on Test/Beta but text is not sent back to translation team and so the text gives the wrong target on live).

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Old 05-15-2012, 03:40 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

ReddyKY wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I think the current system is more then helpful. Any more help and the dev would have to come to your house and do the quest for you.

Not if you are bypassing the mobs you need because the displayed information is "wrong."

Think about it. How may qeusts in the game have drops that you need to loot in order to further the quest? I remember recently runnin through some of the KP quests and there were certainly a bunch. So the indicators on all those quests are going to be wrong?

Umm I pay attention to the quests I have for said zone and look at the mobs names. If I need that mob for what ever reason I get it. It isn't that hard you just have to put out a little bit of effort.

What quest has the "wrong" displayed information about what mob is needed? If that is your issue what are you going to do when the "wrong" mob has the icon above their heads or what not?

If the statement is "Mobs that update a quest will display X" then absence of the display of X means that mob doesn not update that quest. If a drop from the mob does in fact update that quest, then abscence of the display is "wrong" information.

If they are going to give players a crutch, which is really what this is, then players are going to be even less diligent about reading text dialouges, check the quest journal, etc...and will just become "hover" updaters...

"Oh do I need that mob" "Guess not."

If they are going to encourage people to be LESS independent, they need to at least at least do it properly. A halfway solution is only going to end up frustrating people because they were implicitly given the notion that they wouldn't be at the mercy of their memory or searching the journal. Once players get that idea in their head, some amount of people, even ones who USED to be independent, are going to be frustrated that a feature they were told would work doesn't.

I guess if on balance it makes more people happy (dependent) than unhappy it is a win? I guess the system, as it works now with quest dialogue and the quest journal, is broken enough that implementing a crutch that is only going to work some of the time is the best solution?

So, is this a problem in search of solution that can only be done halfway?

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Old 05-15-2012, 07:27 PM   #17
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ReddyKY wrote:

If the statement is "Mobs that update a quest will display X" then absence of the display of X means that mob doesn not update that quest. If a drop from the mob does in fact update that quest, then abscence of the display is "wrong" information.

If they are going to give players a crutch, which is really what this is, then players are going to be even less diligent about reading text dialouges, check the quest journal, etc...and will just become "hover" updaters...

"Oh do I need that mob" "Guess not."

If they are going to encourage people to be LESS independent, they need to at least at least do it properly. A halfway solution is only going to end up frustrating people because they were implicitly given the notion that they wouldn't be at the mercy of their memory or searching the journal. Once players get that idea in their head, some amount of people, even ones who USED to be independent, are going to be frustrated that a feature they were told would work doesn't.

I guess if on balance it makes more people happy (dependent) than unhappy it is a win? I guess the system, as it works now with quest dialogue and the quest journal, is broken enough that implementing a crutch that is only going to work some of the time is the best solution?

So, is this a problem in search of solution that can only be done halfway?

This was one of Rift's biggest flaw, a feature like this (however they at least fully implemented it, including mobs that drop items for updates, objects that update, etc). Whenever I decide to pop on there and quest I hover over mobs and simply avoid anything that isn't for a quest. The quest journal dialogues are unnecessary to read due to ROI and quest target tooltips on there.

Either fully implement this feature here instead of half-rearing if like what is currently on Test or remove it before it hits Live. I'd rather never see this go live, it honestly seems like a waste of manpower when other past outstanding issues and actual player requests could use the attention instead.

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Old 05-16-2012, 06:57 AM   #18
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ReddyKY wrote:

If they are going to give players a crutch, which is really what this is, then players are going to be even less diligent about reading text dialouges, check the quest journal, etc...and will just become "hover" updaters...

This is what most people do already. But instead staying within the game, they use the myriad of third party websites that have quest walkthroughs.

Saying this is a 'crutch' or 'easy mode' implies it has some measure of difficulty in the first place, which it does not. At most it was a minor inconvenience that is now being remedied.

In the long run I think this will actually make putting out quests faster and easier. Instead of having all this 'middle' work of marking the maps, written out directions and making sure mobs names are correct in text, they just link the quest to some NPC data. Much like TERA, mobs you need are marked with an icon and when you check the quest for locations you click on the mob name. I would love if also Instead of some developer made 'blotch' on the map it just puts waypoints to all the coded spawn points of those NPC's.

This way more work can be put on the lore for people who actually want it, since you aren't going to force someone to enjoy something they don't desire in the first place, and people who don't want it can work around it much more efficiently.

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Old 05-16-2012, 11:05 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

ReddyKY wrote:

If they are going to give players a crutch, which is really what this is, then players are going to be even less diligent about reading text dialouges, check the quest journal, etc...and will just become "hover" updaters...

This is what most people do already. But instead staying within the game, they use the myriad of third party websites that have quest walkthroughs.

Saying this is a 'crutch' or 'easy mode' implies it has some measure of difficulty in the first place, which it does not. At most it was a minor inconvenience that is now being remedied.

In the long run I think this will actually make putting out quests faster and easier. Instead of having all this 'middle' work of marking the maps, written out directions and making sure mobs names are correct in text, they just link the quest to some NPC data. Much like TERA, mobs you need are marked with an icon and when you check the quest for locations you click on the mob name. I would love if also Instead of some developer made 'blotch' on the map it just puts waypoints to all the coded spawn points of those NPC's.

This way more work can be put on the lore for people who actually want it, since you aren't going to force someone to enjoy something they don't desire in the first place, and people who don't want it can work around it much more efficiently.

I sure hope this isn't a step in the direction of totally removing the quest journal!!

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #20
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Doubtful. Although that is what GW2 has done in an attempt to make their quests seem more 'alive.' In reality they just moved quest listings to the map and they don't show up on the tracker until you are in the area to do them. Even TERA, which I suspect is where they are lifting this idea, still has a quest journal with lore. They even allow you to look at previous steps and NPC dialogue.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:36 PM   #21
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Ahoy again, everybody.

I've made some updates to it and it should now track the loot off of mobs to correctly flag them as well. Additionally, there were some quests that were pointing at whole encounters rathers than specific characters and it should now know to point to them too.

These changes will be coming soon to Test.

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Old 05-18-2012, 03:30 PM   #22
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The Danak daily crafting faction mission for today Defending the Defenders gives all the Danak guards a quest feather update, and on hovering over it, claims that they will update this quest.

The quest is a no-combat quest that requires you to place barricades on the ground. It's also FOR Danak so makes no sense that you would want to kill the guards (perhaps their attackers which you are placing the barricades against)

Having placed the three barricades and updated that part of the quest however the quest feathers disappear after the tag on the guards, so I guess that part is working correctly.

(I sent a bug report but thought I would put it here too since you asked for feedback)

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Old 05-18-2012, 04:34 PM   #23
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SnoesieQ wrote:

The Danak daily crafting faction mission for today Defending the Defenders gives all the Danak guards a quest feather update, and on hovering over it, claims that they will update this quest.

The quest is a no-combat quest that requires you to place barricades on the ground. It's also FOR Danak so makes no sense that you would want to kill the guards (perhaps their attackers which you are placing the barricades against)

Having placed the three barricades and updated that part of the quest however the quest feathers disappear after the tag on the guards, so I guess that part is working correctly.

(I sent a bug report but thought I would put it here too since you asked for feedback)

Oh! Good find! Apparently this item doesn't have any requirements for target, so everything showed up with it. Fixing that now.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:30 PM   #24
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I spent some time looking for the off switch to this feature the other day and couldn't find one. If it's there please could somebody point it out? If it's not there please could Terrogaunt put it in?
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:46 PM   #25
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tkia wrote:

I spent some time looking for the off switch to this feature the other day and couldn't find one. If it's there please could somebody point it out? If it's not there please could Terrogaunt put it in?

Did you check in the Options window? This was one of the first things implemented. Check under:

Options > User Interface > Name and Chat Bubble > NPC Name Icons for Quest Targets

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Old 05-23-2012, 04:22 AM   #26
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Ahoy again, everybody.

I've made some updates to it and it should now track the loot off of mobs to correctly flag them as well. Additionally, there were some quests that were pointing at whole encounters rathers than specific characters and it should now know to point to them too.

These changes will be coming soon to Test.

Thanks!

I have a question and don't want to start controversy, but will the tools needed to flag mobs for quest updates be included in the workflow of all design going forward? Or did you find a way to do it all in an automated way so designers don't have to think about this new feature?

Just curious.

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Old 05-23-2012, 09:10 AM   #27
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One concern I have is that this is tested under a load representative of what "live" would see. I seem to remember in long ago past where zone lag was caused by the Quest journal (don't remember the exact details) and am curious if this is caching results on load or whether the data is pulled at the time of "hover."

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:56 PM   #28
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Terrogaunt wrote:

tkia wrote:

I spent some time looking for the off switch to this feature the other day and couldn't find one. If it's there please could somebody point it out? If it's not there please could Terrogaunt put it in?

Did you check in the Options window? This was one of the first things implemented. Check under:

Options > User Interface > Name and Chat Bubble > NPC Name Icons for Quest Targets

Thank you, Terrogaunt SMILEY

I went through that section more than once as that's where I was expecting it to be but never spotted it.  Maybe the name needs adjusting to make it stand out better?  Not really sure what would make it more obvious though.

Anyway, turned off and on and off and thoroughly tested and it works - yay!  SMILEY

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Old 06-26-2012, 02:10 PM   #29
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DLW: Infantile Ingredients (Calnozz)

The agitated and docile slitherer don't have a quest target icon. They're not the targets, but when killed they spawn baby snakes to gather.

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Old 07-01-2012, 10:40 PM   #30
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Jarsath Wastes 

Nothing on the Mind (level 80 quest) from Scout Nan'Dor

As soon as you recieve the quest all of the Sel'Nok in the area get the icon.

EDIT - looks like everything in the zone got the icon.

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