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Old 05-21-2012, 07:53 PM   #1
niteowl53

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South Qeynos - Fish's AlehouseBdorn Alehammer,  Templar,  Adept,  5P, 25g every half hourKeyrin Curetouch, Warden,  Adept, 5P, 25g every half hourStamper Jeralf, Inquisitor, Adept, 5P, 25g every half hourBildi Pieflinger, Troubador, Expert, 5P, 25g every half hourKyren Darkcloud, Swashy, Expert, 5P, 25g every half hourKell Silentfang, Monk, Expert, 5P, 25g every half hourFirus Scorchtouch, Wizard, Master, 5P, 25g every half hourJennis Proudhilt, Paladin , Master, 5P, 25g every half hour

Healer Mercs are all Adept, The Scout and Monk Mercs are Expert and the Wizard and Pally Mercs are Masters. ALL cost the same and charge the same half hourly fee. So why the difference in their spell grades?

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Old 05-21-2012, 09:16 PM   #2
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Because the feeling was that if they made the healers too good, they would replace PC healers.

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Old 05-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #3
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Plus...

Gninja wrote:

Mercenaries use spells a bit differently than players do. Having their spells be Adept vrs Master has no bearing on how much they heal for. In fact it only affects their resist rates on their detrimental spells.

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Old 05-21-2012, 09:44 PM   #4
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Because the feeling was that if they made the healers too good, they would replace PC healers.

Given what I've seen out of the merc healers? I don't think there's any likihood of THAT happening any time soon. The healers don't seem to do anything about damage until a bit after it happens.. sort of a 'oh, my group took damage, that sucks. Wait, I think -I'm- the healer, I guess I should heal or something!' =P

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Old 05-21-2012, 10:55 PM   #5
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That's why I always suggest the Inquisitor merc (at least for melee toons). All the mercs suck at healing, but Fanaticism and Tenacity always work!

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Old 05-22-2012, 12:37 PM   #6
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Raknid wrote:

Plus...

Gninja wrote:

Mercenaries use spells a bit differently than players do. Having their spells be Adept vrs Master has no bearing on how much they heal for. In fact it only affects their resist rates on their detrimental spells.

I realize Gninja isn't likely to read and respond to this but...

This begs the question, if it only affects resistability, why not make all mercs have master spells?  This nuance is clearly not understandable by players, and if they tagged them all as masters then players would have no confusion and there would be no percieved difference.

Its not like heals get resisted anyway...

Lets spend a few minutes thinking this thru and removing one more confusion point from this game.

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Old 05-22-2012, 12:41 PM   #7
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Raknid wrote:

Plus...

Gninja wrote:

Mercenaries use spells a bit differently than players do. Having their spells be Adept vrs Master has no bearing on how much they heal for. In fact it only affects their resist rates on their detrimental spells.

I have to say this reply from Gninja makes no sense whatsoever. If the heal amount is not affected by the spells level then there's no issue to make them master , is there ?

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Old 05-22-2012, 01:06 PM   #8
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The healers have adept spells mainly because if they had expert or master their damage spells would put them in the next tier of damage dealing which was not the intention for these specific mercs. Like was said heals do not get resisted so these spell qualities have no effect on their healing it does however lower the damage output they do a little bit due to resists or partial resists.

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Old 05-22-2012, 01:29 PM   #9
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Gninja wrote:

The healers have adept spells mainly because if they had expert or master their damage spells would put them in the next tier of damage dealing which was not the intention for these specific mercs. Like was said heals do not get resisted so these spell qualities have no effect on their healing it does however lower the damage output they do a little bit due to resists or partial resists.

Yes, but where is this statement clearly communicated in the game?

If you set the heals to 'master' it wouldn't change anything EXCEPT the players percieved value of the healer.

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Old 05-22-2012, 01:48 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

Gninja wrote:

The healers have adept spells mainly because if they had expert or master their damage spells would put them in the next tier of damage dealing which was not the intention for these specific mercs. Like was said heals do not get resisted so these spell qualities have no effect on their healing it does however lower the damage output they do a little bit due to resists or partial resists.

Yes, but where is this statement clearly communicated in the game?

If you set the heals to 'master' it wouldn't change anything EXCEPT the players percieved value of the healer.

With mercenaries we don't have a way to set certain spells to master over other spells. It's all or nothing. So changing them to master will change perception(I agree there) but it will also make them do more DPS and that is something the healer mercs do not need as they are pretty powerful as is.

After thinking about it a little bit it may just be better to remove the spell qualities on mercenaries spells so they don't show up. This would make the mercs just judge more strictly on performance and not as much just looking at their tags. I have been looking into doing this with the classes as well. Its a bit confusing expecially for the elite mercs when players see Fury next to their level but they don't have the same spells as a fury would. Will see what we can do with it.

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Old 05-22-2012, 02:18 PM   #11
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Gninja wrote:

After thinking about it a little bit it may just be better to remove the spell qualities on mercenaries spells so they don't show up. This would make the mercs just judge more strictly on performance and not as much just looking at their tags. I have been looking into doing this with the classes as well. Its a bit confusing expecially for the elite mercs when players see Fury next to their level but they don't have the same spells as a fury would. Will see what we can do with it.

I agree, that would help alleviate alot of the confusion.

Removing the classes is also interesting as you could, if you were so inclined, create a hybrid class merc. 

Wizatroub anyone?

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Old 05-22-2012, 02:50 PM   #12
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The elite mercs already are hybrid type classes. Matri is Wizard/Brigand Kenny is Guardian/Mystic and Perrin is Warlock/Fury.

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Old 05-22-2012, 03:25 PM   #13
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Gninja wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Gninja wrote:

The healers have adept spells mainly because if they had expert or master their damage spells would put them in the next tier of damage dealing which was not the intention for these specific mercs. Like was said heals do not get resisted so these spell qualities have no effect on their healing it does however lower the damage output they do a little bit due to resists or partial resists.

Yes, but where is this statement clearly communicated in the game?

If you set the heals to 'master' it wouldn't change anything EXCEPT the players percieved value of the healer.

With mercenaries we don't have a way to set certain spells to master over other spells. It's all or nothing. So changing them to master will change perception(I agree there) but it will also make them do more DPS and that is something the healer mercs do not need as they are pretty powerful as is.

After thinking about it a little bit it may just be better to remove the spell qualities on mercenaries spells so they don't show up. This would make the mercs just judge more strictly on performance and not as much just looking at their tags. I have been looking into doing this with the classes as well. Its a bit confusing expecially for the elite mercs when players see Fury next to their level but they don't have the same spells as a fury would. Will see what we can do with it.

I wouldn't really agree with the statement that "they are pretty powerful as is".  The only healer mercenary I can even rely on at all is Stamper.  The warden and templar are okay, and the defiler and mystic are just useless, the only thing they are good at is letting my character die repeatedly.  Plus Stamper is the only healer who provides any worthwhile buffs.  I don't think it's a coincidence that practically the only healer mercenary anyone uses is him. 

They could really use some balancing, as I find it rather boring using the same healer mercenary all the time because the others simply aren't viable.

-Braincandy

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:12 PM   #14
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Actually, looking at the numbers the Templar merc and the Inquis merc are used nearly equally used with the inquis pulling ahead slightly. I have been fiddling aorund with the other mercs to make them a little more desirable but you likely won't see any of those changes until the next GU is out on the test server. The intention was that the warden merc would be the best healer but that would be all she does. Inquis was a balanced healer with buffs, cures, and small amount of DPS which is likely why he is liked so much.

Either way we will see some changes to the other healers with the GU and hopefully bring them more in line with the Inquis as it is not getting much changes at all if any.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:20 PM   #15
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Gninja wrote:

Actually, looking at the numbers the Templar merc and the Inquis merc are used nearly equally used with the inquis pulling ahead slightly. I have been fiddling aorund with the other mercs to make them a little more desirable but you likely won't see any of those changes until the next GU is out on the test server. The intention was that the warden merc would be the best healer but that would be all she does. Inquis was a balanced healer with buffs, cures, and small amount of DPS which is likely why he is liked so much.

Either way we will see some changes to the other healers with the GU and hopefully bring them more in line with the Inquis as it is not getting much changes at all if any.

So the Warden curing is a bug? Because when I used the Warden she healed and cured like a champ.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:23 PM   #16
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Gninja wrote:

Actually, looking at the numbers the Templar merc and the Inquis merc are used nearly equally used with the inquis pulling ahead slightly. I have been fiddling aorund with the other mercs to make them a little more desirable but you likely won't see any of those changes until the next GU is out on the test server. The intention was that the warden merc would be the best healer but that would be all she does. Inquis was a balanced healer with buffs, cures, and small amount of DPS which is likely why he is liked so much.

Either way we will see some changes to the other healers with the GU and hopefully bring them more in line with the Inquis as it is not getting much changes at all if any.

Used, do you mean actually hired and used, or is the one people picked up?

Cause running around contested zones, Stamper is the most common one I ever see followed by the SS inq equivelent.  I actually can't remember the last time I saw someone with the templar actually out and being used, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me I have the templar on several of my toons (since I don't actually use mercs).

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:27 PM   #17
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Gninja wrote:

Actually, looking at the numbers the Templar merc and the Inquis merc are used nearly equally used with the inquis pulling ahead slightly. I have been fiddling aorund with the other mercs to make them a little more desirable but you likely won't see any of those changes until the next GU is out on the test server. The intention was that the warden merc would be the best healer but that would be all she does. Inquis was a balanced healer with buffs, cures, and small amount of DPS which is likely why he is liked so much.

Either way we will see some changes to the other healers with the GU and hopefully bring them more in line with the Inquis as it is not getting much changes at all if any.

I have played with some pretty bad healers before, thats including my lvl 90 Warden I never play, except to mess around on, because I'm no healer player.  But the Warden merc is worse in some cases compared to the worst healers I have played with.  So, I'm a little confused how you could say the warden is the best?

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:30 PM   #18
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Used, do you mean actually hired and used, or is the one people picked up?

Cause running around contested zones, Stamper is the most common one I ever see followed by the SS inq equivelent.  I actually can't remember the last time I saw someone with the templar actually out and being used, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me I have the templar on several of my toons (since I don't actually use mercs).

I have a couple of Templar mercs hired on a couple of my toons.  Templar mercs are the bomb when it comes to curing.  The detriments are the ones that will kill you slowly if not cured.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:32 PM   #19
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Aunry wrote:

=

I have a couple of Templar mercs hired on a couple of my toons.  Templar mercs are the bomb when it comes to curing.  The detriments are the ones that will kill you slowly if not cured.

Thats odd to hear, since players in game seem to claim the inq is the only one that cures with any regularity.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:38 PM   #20
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Well, not sure what to tell you.  

I found the Templar spells to be more useful when soloing with plate and chain toons.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:59 PM   #21
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Gninja wrote:

Actually, looking at the numbers the Templar merc and the Inquis merc are used nearly equally used with the inquis pulling ahead slightly. I have been fiddling aorund with the other mercs to make them a little more desirable but you likely won't see any of those changes until the next GU is out on the test server. The intention was that the warden merc would be the best healer but that would be all she does. Inquis was a balanced healer with buffs, cures, and small amount of DPS which is likely why he is liked so much.

Either way we will see some changes to the other healers with the GU and hopefully bring them more in line with the Inquis as it is not getting much changes at all if any.

The biggest discrepancy between the healer mercenaries is their casting times and that is what makes Stamper and the templar the best, they have the shortest casting times.  Like someone else has said, all healer mercenaries have something of a delayed reaction, but they compensate by the quickest casting times.  On the other side of the coin it is what makes the shamans the worst.  My character will be near death and the shaman will decide to cast a 5 second ward and by the time he is done my character is dead. 

I find it odd that the cleric mercenaries have the quickest cast times, when I would of thought it would be the warden.

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Old 05-22-2012, 05:22 PM   #22
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Sorry, I should have been more clear.

The warden merc was planned to have been the best healer it currently is not the case. Her curing is not a bug she just does not cure as well as the inquisitor.

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Old 05-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #23
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Raknid wrote:

Gninja wrote:

Actually, looking at the numbers the Templar merc and the Inquis merc are used nearly equally used with the inquis pulling ahead slightly. I have been fiddling aorund with the other mercs to make them a little more desirable but you likely won't see any of those changes until the next GU is out on the test server. The intention was that the warden merc would be the best healer but that would be all she does. Inquis was a balanced healer with buffs, cures, and small amount of DPS which is likely why he is liked so much.

Either way we will see some changes to the other healers with the GU and hopefully bring them more in line with the Inquis as it is not getting much changes at all if any.

So the Warden curing is a bug? Because when I used the Warden she healed and cured like a champ.

I hope this was sarcasm. When I hired the Warden merc back when she was introduced all that she did was stand back away from the mobs and did nothing. No healing and no curing. I gave her a couple of days and then replaced her with the dwarven templar. I have not hired her since then.

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Old 05-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #24
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Gninja wrote:

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

The warden merc was planned to have been the best healer it currently is not the case. Her curing is not a bug she just does not cure as well as the inquisitor.

=/

The healer that cures the best *is* the best healer...

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Old 05-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #25
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best healer?  a druid whos heal mechanic is the least effecient of the three types..   shamman being tops but longest cast speed yada yada..     the druid healer is utter junk sure she works great when mobs dont hit that hard or toss detriments that hurt that bad, wait isnt that solo content?  

LOL  best healer a warden that made me giggle thank you sony for that laugh.

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:10 AM   #26
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Mermut wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Because the feeling was that if they made the healers too good, they would replace PC healers.

Given what I've seen out of the merc healers? I don't think there's any likihood of THAT happening any time soon. The healers don't seem to do anything about damage until a bit after it happens.. sort of a 'oh, my group took damage, that sucks. Wait, I think -I'm- the healer, I guess I should heal or something!' =P

They put in a deliberate delay on casting spells thats why , to stop the insta-reaction that PC healers can't match..

When the healer mercs first came in they were casting cures the millisecond the detriment had been applied, this was changed and the cast time has been tweaked to be longer and longer over a couple of months.

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Old 05-23-2012, 04:10 AM   #27
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Ok, just curious, could you not mix the healers spells, so the cures and heals are masters and the damage spells are adept, if you are worried about the damage being in the next tier?  I mean as plaers we have mixed spells some experts, some adept, some masters some grand masters.... I am assuming that people get the healer to heal and cure and buff, not for damage anyways....

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:52 AM   #28
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I can see making them a bit slow on the cure/heal so people may use a real player once in a while. But my gosh, if the inq merc is the best healer at curing then I would hate to see the others.

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Old 05-23-2012, 06:19 AM   #29
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Also, the healer AI is very poor, it always cast slow even with the master skill, and allows players to die while they got full power remain, which dosent make sense at all.

SoE shall fix this...

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