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Old 05-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #31
Bloodrage

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Splatterpunk28 wrote:

I have to agree with Malevolencexx and Applo on T4 classes.

And my post was in regards to the OP's original question.  Troubs are the most versatile scout in T4, they can either go full utility or full on awesome targetted dps while at the same time can own all other scouts 1v1.  My point was more about having fun, having a challenge and still making an impact in bg outcomes.

I rarely bg these days, but I haven't ever seen parses like those either.  But like Applo said, the parses only show so much.  Often enough big parses are counterintuitive.  An example is a warden that keeps everyone alive the entire bg all without power and they lose mostly because of it, but whohoo look at their 200k heal parse!  Another example is a beastlord chain killing easy pick offs for the dps parse and never grabbing the relic or targetting the opposing team's healer or relic holder, but whoohoo look at that 200k dps parse!

Think about why a paladin is the king of T4 bgs.  It's because of his taunts, targetted heals and targetted stuns and knockbacks, none of which are going to showcase him on a parse, though if spec'd in a certain way his autoattack dmg can be pretty impressive.  If you look at your persona window you'll quickly see that T4 is all about melee.  Most people are maxed out on spell resists, which reduce spell damage by 75%, yet physical mitigation can't come close to that.  Throw on another 20-30% of toughness pvp dmg reduction and that's why mages suck so bad for dps and why wardens are so much better than furies, though druids are leaps and bounds better than other healers for gears.  If you really are just all about winning, an uber paladin and warden duo can pretty much win against anyone with the slightest of assistance from their team, add in an uber melee dps and you're guaranteed it if all focused on getting the relic or flag.

The reason why I rarely bg these days is because they aren't that fun any more.  Too many people are either totally focused on their parses and screwing their team in the process or so focused on winning they are either trying to stack a pregroup to make it so one sided it's a joke or they run with the relic and flag avoiding 'pvp', totally defeating the purpose of queueing in the first place. 

Other than the random bg binge every few weeks, I'm waiting for new gear and hopefully a new type of match.  In the meantime I'm glad you guys are keeping them going. 

*cheers

This whole post is about 50% false. First off "Troubs are the most versatile scout in T4, they can either go full utility or full on awesome targetted dps while at the same time can own all other scouts 1v1." is completely wrong. Their buffs don't do much at all in t4 cept their ma & crit chance buff if spec'd for it. Also I have never lost to a troub on any of my scouts, never even close.

Then you go on to say "If you look at your persona window you'll quickly see that T4 is all about melee.  Most people are maxed out on spell resists, which reduce spell damage by 75%, yet physical mitigation can't come close to that.  Throw on another 20-30% of toughness pvp dmg reduction and that's why mages suck so bad for dps and why wardens are so much better than furies, though druids are leaps and bounds better than other healers for gears." in which is easily proved wrong here:

And if you actually read the names of the people in the BG you will see almost everyone there is fully bg geared & capped on resists.

Please stop pretending you have a clue.

" If you really are just all about winning, an uber paladin and warden duo can pretty much win against anyone with the slightest of assistance from their team, add in an uber melee dps and you're guaranteed it if all focused on getting the relic or flag." -Yet again another false statement. Any 2 good scouts would destroy any healer in t4 with ease. I can lock down any healer on my swash alone. Paladins are also easy kills the only reason they live longer than most is because noob dpsers give up after a few seconds trying to burn them and move on. Little do they know pallys cannot sustain their heals for long as most are on 40sec or higher cooldowns cept their grp heal which is 6sec cd and their arch heal if spec'd for it which is 10sec recast (still long) and both of them heals do not heal for much. Also pallys aoe kb is on a 40sec recast, they are not even good for kbing when the relic drops as zerkers and many other classes have aoe and encounter stun/knockbacks that are on a far lower cooldown.

"so focused on winning they are either trying to stack a pregroup to make it so one sided it's a joke" - Or they queue premade because they are geared & know what they are doing & want to play with other people who are geared & know what they are doing. Or they play this game online with friends as it is intended & bg with friends because it is fun to play with their friends... OR they queue premade because everytime they queue solo they get a bunch of morons with attitudes who don't know how to play & have no desire to listen or work together.

I personally queue battlegrounds to pvp because open world pvp is dead. I hate playing with people so focused on stupid pve crap like killing pve mobs in tundra, grabbing the relic in gears, or grabbing the flag in ganak that they forget a battleground is instanced pvp & they need to taunt, heal, dps, fight other players... not just run around like chickens with their heads cut off grabbin the relic/flag and fleeing from any sight of pvp the whole bg.

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Old 05-04-2012, 10:37 PM   #32
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Bloodrage wrote:

This whole post is about 50% false. First off "Troubs are the most versatile scout in T4, they can either go full utility or full on awesome targetted dps while at the same time can own all other scouts 1v1." is completely wrong. Their buffs don't do much at all in t4 cept their ma & crit chance buff if spec'd for it. Also I have never lost to a troub on any of my scouts, never even close.  Last I checked utility isn't just about buffs, it includes debuffing and disabling enemies.  As far as your flawless 1v1 record, what troubs have you 1v1 against? 

Then you go on to say "If you look at your persona window you'll quickly see that T4 is all about melee.  Most people are maxed out on spell resists, which reduce spell damage by 75%, yet physical mitigation can't come close to that.  Throw on another 20-30% of toughness pvp dmg reduction and that's why mages suck so bad for dps and why wardens are so much better than furies, though druids are leaps and bounds better than other healers for gears." in which is easily proved wrong here:  This could be where you pull up a persona window, but that would prove what was stated as true so ...

And if you actually read the names of the people in the BG you will see almost everyone there is fully bg geared & capped on resists.  Like stated previously warlocks are great dps situationally.  The screenshot you showcase as some great exception is actually the exact situation stated in that you have 2 healers and are against 2 healers.  Look on flames and see screenshots of the same situation shown by many.  But grats on being against and having 2healers and the opposing team focusing more on them than taking you out.  Mages typically have lower dps than fighters and scouts because their dmg is being heavily mitigated and they are much easier to kill or distract enough to make them moot.

Please stop pretending you have a clue.  Dude you are the one acting like you are some god of knowledge and like I was saying you fail.  There is absolutely nothing you have proven contrary to any of the posts above by anyone by your 3 screenshots.  You claim over and over these amazing parses that you do every time that I have never seen you do and apparently others have not either.  No one is discounting the need for dps, but you contradict yourself when you say you lost because no one could sustain holding the relic when you had 2 pallies on your team and you never picked it up once with it being such a close match. 

" If you really are just all about winning, an uber paladin and warden duo can pretty much win against anyone with the slightest of assistance from their team, add in an uber melee dps and you're guaranteed it if all focused on getting the relic or flag." -Yet again another false statement. Any 2 good scouts would destroy any healer in t4 with ease. I can lock down any healer on my swash alone (utility and dps?  What a concept). Paladins are also easy kills the only reason they live longer than most is because noob dpsers give up after a few seconds trying to burn them and move on. Little do they know pallys cannot sustain their heals for long as most are on 40sec or higher cooldowns cept their grp heal which is 6sec cd and their arch heal if spec'd for it which is 10sec recast (still long) and both of them heals do not heal for much. Also pallys aoe kb is on a 40sec recast, they are not even good for kbing when the relic drops as zerkers and many other classes have aoe and encounter stun/knockbacks that are on a far lower cooldown.  Is this an arguement of something someone said?  Your arguement makes no sense.  Paladin equals taunts, stuns, knockback, heals AND dps...couple that with a warden who is without a doubt the best healer and working together your '2 good scouts' scenario falls apart.  And if you are saying that zerkers are better than paladins, then all the power to you for your opinion, but there is no proof here just because you have access to quicker aoe stuns, as if that compensates for the massive healing they can do for a team.

"so focused on winning they are either trying to stack a pregroup to make it so one sided it's a joke" - Or they queue premade because they are geared & know what they are doing & want to play with other people who are geared & know what they are doing. Or they play this game online with friends as it is intended & bg with friends because it is fun to play with their friends... OR they queue premade because everytime they queue solo they get a bunch of morons with attitudes who don't know how to play & have no desire to listen or work together.  People go to bgs for different reasons, I stated what I dislike that seems to be growing and why I have been going less.  I personally rarely preque with more than one person because I like working with random people as a team and fighting to win.  When you get 5 or 6 back to back bgs against a pregroup totally maxed and stacked hardly any one is having fun on either side.  I wasn't saying your opinion or your desire is wrong.  You take yourself way too seriously and are failing to prove anything except that.   

I personally queue battlegrounds to pvp because open world pvp is dead. I hate playing with people so focused on stupid pve crap like killing pve mobs in tundra, grabbing the relic in gears, or grabbing the flag in ganak that they forget a battleground is instanced pvp & they need to taunt, heal, dps, fight other players... not just run around like chickens with their heads cut off grabbin the relic/flag and fleeing from any sight of pvp the whole bg.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and forth with you.  Good luck increasing your fanbase, I am confident it has great potential to make up for something. 

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Old 05-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #33
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Sort of pointless to try to sway the mind of someone who's mind is controlled by ignorance & not themselves. You spew nonsense repeatedly with no facts or evidence to back it up & instead discredit the evidence right before your eyes by saying "that is rare" or "the situation has to be right to do that". Yes anyone with common sense knows that certain situations have to be right for things to happen, what is being proven is that when those situations are right, the classes I mentioned shine above the classes you mentioned every single time. The fight you just mentioned about having 2 pallys, how is that relevent? If anything it works against what you said about pallys being so good when they clearly aren't. They only do good if people are stupid and let them do good. Just like beastlords if people are too stupid to kill their pet & let them run wild facerolling everyone.

Last I checked utility isn't just about buffs, it includes debuffing and disabling enemies.  As far as your flawless 1v1 record, what troubs have you 1v1 against?

Every troub I have seen in t4 since bgs first came out. How about instead of asking me, you name one troub that can "beat any other scout 1 vs 1" and I'll prove you wrong.... as well as many other scouts would. Troub has a 6sec stifle and a crap mezz... wow.. uber support...

This could be where you pull up a persona window, but that would prove what was stated as true so ...

Why would I do that? You said mages cannot parse well & clearly they can. Proof right in front of you but even then you make excuses. Mages can parse. I have seen necro's, chanters, and warlocks parse well in t4. You must be new.

No one is discounting the need for dps, but you contradict yourself when you say you lost because no one could sustain holding the relic when you had 2 pallies on your team and you never picked it up once with it being such a close match. 

Yet we lost with those 2 pallys that you claim to be so good. Also use common sense and look at the heals given and the answer is right there. They simply could not heal enough.

(utility and dps?  What a concept)

Yep that's a scout's job, NOT grabbing a relic in which they cannot hold long & when they die while they are waiting to revive your team gets destroyed by the people the scouts were keeping at bay... what a concept!

Is this an arguement of something someone said?  Your arguement makes no sense.  Paladin equals taunts, stuns, knockback, heals AND dps...couple that with a warden who is without a doubt the best healer and working together your '2 good scouts' scenario falls apart.  And if you are saying that zerkers are better than paladins, then all the power to you for your opinion, but there is no proof here just because you have access to quicker aoe stuns, as if that compensates for the massive healing they can do for a team.

Simply... no... paladins do not have anywhere near the dps of a zerker, they do not have multiple aoe/encounter stun/knockbacks as zerkers do, they only appear to have decent heals because pallys spec for the grp regenerative ward that is the majority of their heals on the scoreboard along with their one crappy grp heal. They cannot heal anyone who is being spiked, their heals are close to useless. Also yes 2 good scouts will destroy a pally and warden combo. 2 beastlords have the dps/support to completely just blow through the pally then the warden. Not to mention there are many different scout combos with many different things they can do to put one of the 2 warden/pally out of the fight long enough to kill the other. This may come as a suprize to you since you are new and all but pallys only have 4 taunts in t4. Rescue is on a 4min 30sec or so cooldown, encounter taunt lasts 3secs on a 20sec cooldown, their knockback/taunt lasts 3sec and I think that one is 22sec cooldown and their single target taunt is again 3sec on a 7sec cooldown. If the scouts are not dumb all it takes is using an arcane potion to cure the pally taunt thats on a 7sec cd and just blowing the healer up in the 20sec it takes on the rest of their useless taunts. You really should learn the game kid maybe then you wouldn't constantly ragequit.

Only good tank for t4 that can actually hold aggro is a monk.

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Old 05-05-2012, 06:25 PM   #34
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Bloodrage wrote:

Yep that's a scout's job, NOT grabbing a relic in which they cannot hold long & when they die while they are waiting to revive your team gets destroyed by the people the scouts were keeping at bay... what a concept!

They cannot heal anyone who is being spiked, their heals are close to useless

uh, scouts are the easiest to keep alive with the relic because of their relatively low hp compared to fighters and priests, and higher survivability than mages due to deaggros and mitigation. You're not doing anyone any favors by not picking up the relic, there's no reason you can't dps while holding the relic and scoring points.

also, lay on hands = spike healing.

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Old 05-06-2012, 12:17 AM   #35
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Bloodrage wrote:

Yep that's a scout's job, NOT grabbing a relic in which they cannot hold long & when they die while they are waiting to revive your team gets destroyed by the people the scouts were keeping at bay... what a concept!

They cannot heal anyone who is being spiked, their heals are close to useless

uh, priests and fighters are easier to keep alive since they generally stay in the center to keep control of the relic and keep everyone alive. scouts run off up top and wherever else they have to go to kill enemy dps, enemy chanters, and enemy healers that try to hide in a spot where they can do their job uninterrupted. Also paladins, sks, brawlers, and healers can heal themselves, crusaders and clerics have immunities to damage, ect ect making them better for grabbing the relic. Fighters can also knockback or encounter taunt right when they are about to die with the relic ensuring that people are knocked back or cannot change targets when the relic drops. Priests can also aoe fear stifle mezz, ect to ensure the same outcome. All the more reason for priests/fighters or low dps/undergeared people who aren't rly contributing to grab the relic. You're doing everyone favors by not picking up the relic, you can only dps a short period of time while holding the relic and scoring points since you will die faster than most being an offensive scout & will not be able to do your job because everyone will be piling on you. Instead you are focusing on killing enemy chanters, healers, dps, and enemies who would grab the relic if not dead. <--- fixed that for you

also, lay on hands = spike heal once every 5 minutes <---- fixed that for you as well

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Old 05-07-2012, 12:31 AM   #36
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Dang, catfight much? Splatterpunk is too sassy for that name and Bloodrage needs to change out that tampon.

It looks like to me all that Splatterpunk was saying is that you can gear up several classes to do some pretty insane damage if the situation is perfect for them, but that won't make you win a bg and gearing toons for pure dps comes at a large cost in utility and mitigation.  Also that fighters and scouts have more advantages than mages for dps. Just looking at basic stats in tier 4, buffs and the fact that autoattack doesn't require power proves that out.  Anyone that is doing phenomenal dps to a key person on the team should be taken out; mages would be far quicker to drop or manadrain than fighters and scouts so I can't really disagree with him on anything he said.  Anyone that looks at parses after every bg that bgs often would know this.  Mages and priests took major hits when they lost access to the shadows tree.  Are you disagreeing on any of that Bloodrage?  I can't tell.

It looks like Bloodrage is just saying that he has several toons that can do sick dps and so they shouldn't be discounted as worthless classes or third class citizens in bgs.  I think dps is crucial to win a bg if the opposing team is great at getting the relic, but if your team is great at it and can heal, then it doesn't matter much.  Gears is the only bg people get 95% of the time anyway, at least when I play.  And he has a point about two beastlords being able to overwhelm a warden and paladin pretty easily.   But it would take them longer to kill them than they could hold the relic, so I think they'd still lose pretty bad in the end if was truly a 2 v 2, especially if they were being douches like most 'dps classes' and not grabbing the relic.  Just an opinion though, I'm not trying to prove anything.  In fact if anyone was trying to prove anything here, they haven't.  Almost everything said was obvious to anyone. 

As far as newbs, I have to call you out Bloodrage, you joined here two months ago, Splatterpunk was from 2004 and I've seen his bg parses on eq2flames since bgs came out.  I can only think of a handful of people that have been in bgs from the beginning and shown parses active on the forums, but he is one of them, so is Malevolence. 

Looks like this is mostly personalities clashing and nuanced details of rare situations.  I am pretty sure you two are the in same guild as well, so maybe take the guild drama off the forums?

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:03 AM   #37
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Applo wrote:

Dang, catfight much? Splatterpunk is too sassy for that name and Bloodrage needs to change out that tampon.

It looks like to me all that Splatterpunk was saying is that you can gear up several classes to do some pretty insane damage if the situation is perfect for them, but that won't make you win a bg and gearing toons for pure dps comes at a large cost in utility and mitigation.  Also that fighters and scouts have more advantages than mages for dps. Just looking at basic stats in tier 4, buffs and the fact that autoattack doesn't require power proves that out.  Anyone that is doing phenomenal dps to a key person on the team should be taken out; mages would be far quicker to drop or manadrain than fighters and scouts so I can't really disagree with him on anything he said.  Anyone that looks at parses after every bg that bgs often would know this.  Mages and priests took major hits when they lost access to the shadows tree.  Are you disagreeing on any of that Bloodrage?  I can't tell.

It looks like Bloodrage is just saying that he has several toons that can do sick dps and so they shouldn't be discounted as worthless classes or third class citizens in bgs.  I think dps is crucial to win a bg if the opposing team is great at getting the relic, but if your team is great at it and can heal, then it doesn't matter much.  Gears is the only bg people get 95% of the time anyway, at least when I play.  And he has a point about two beastlords being able to overwhelm a warden and paladin pretty easily.   But it would take them longer to kill them than they could hold the relic, so I think they'd still lose pretty bad in the end if was truly a 2 v 2, especially if they were being douches like most 'dps classes' and not grabbing the relic.  Just an opinion though, I'm not trying to prove anything.  In fact if anyone was trying to prove anything here, they haven't.  Almost everything said was obvious to anyone. 

As far as newbs, I have to call you out Bloodrage, you joined here two months ago, Splatterpunk was from 2004 and I've seen his bg parses on eq2flames since bgs came out.  I can only think of a handful of people that have been in bgs from the beginning and shown parses active on the forums, but he is one of them, so is Malevolence. 

Been on pvp since launch. If you don't know who I am, then you don't need to because you are indeed the newbie. lol @ using account age to determine if someone is new or not. I don't post on eq2flames because as you can clearly see unless you are one of them... for the most part, only angry disguntled little kids who got kicked off of the official forums and/or banned post there. Everyone there thinks they are a commedian with their fail trolling yet the only ones laughing are the same handful of virgins who live on that site and edit/remove posts they don't agree with. That being said most of what you said is true but you only repeated what was already said here yet added slight twists/insults in attempt to look cool or gain attention. This isn't eq2flames, that doesn't work here.

Looks like this is mostly personalities clashing and nuanced details of rare situations.  I am pretty sure you two are the in same guild as well, so maybe take the guild drama off the forums?

Haven't played much in the past few days but last night I got a few more screenshots as promised. Like I said @ or around 100k almost every game.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #38
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No doubt those are great screenshots. I never said you couldn't dps, only disagree with the amount of worth you seem to think it is to your teams victory.

Just an observation, in the first two screenshots a troub did 100k as well.  And in every screenshot you had and were against healers, taking minimal damage in almost every single one.  Judging from your lack of dying you didn't pick up the relic either.  I would guess your parses would have been incredibly dwarfed like the only warlock in any of them, Derail, if you'd been beat on as he was.  All of this gives weight to previous statements you disagreed with.

I find it funny that you agree with what I said, criticize me for saying nothing new and yet you flamed the other people I summed up as not having a clue a post or so back. 

As far as the other account comments, it's an interesting combination that you trash people that post on flames as being banned from here trolling and raging, yet in the same breath want to defend your account age as meaningless and you're supposedly such a veteran you've been around since launch?  You started the flaming over here after all.  And, no, other than the characters you've shared here that you bg with for the past few months, I don't know you and have no interest in getting to know you.  I tend to ignore people that shout in bgs often or rage in forums as often as you do.

I commend your parses, am entertained by your rage and your contradictions though.

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Old 05-10-2012, 01:50 AM   #39
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Bloodrage wrote:

uh, priests and fighters are easier to keep alive since they generally stay in the center to keep control of the relic and keep everyone alive. scouts run off up top and wherever else they have to go to kill enemy dps, enemy chanters, and enemy healers that try to hide in a spot where they can do their job uninterrupted. Also paladins, sks, brawlers, and healers can heal themselves, crusaders and clerics have immunities to damage, ect ect making them better for grabbing the relic. Fighters can also knockback or encounter taunt right when they are about to die with the relic ensuring that people are knocked back or cannot change targets when the relic drops. Priests can also aoe fear stifle mezz, ect to ensure the same outcome. All the more reason for priests/fighters or low dps/undergeared people who aren't rly contributing to grab the relic. You're doing everyone favors by not picking up the relic, you can only dps a short period of time while holding the relic and scoring points since you will die faster than most being an offensive scout & will not be able to do your job because everyone will be piling on you. Instead you are focusing on killing enemy chanters, healers, dps, and enemies who would grab the relic if not dead. <--- fixed that for you

also, lay on hands = spike heal once every 5 minutes <---- fixed that for you as well

You play scouts and maybe tanks, that's probably a big part of the reason you have no idea who is easiest to heal. You have some fancy theory-craft, but in reality it doesn't work that way.

Fighter have too much HP and pull too much aggro to be the best for holding the relic. Actually, although everyone should be trying to click the relic in a close match... fighters are the absolute worst for holding it. Fighters usually stand in the center, but that only matters when the relic is dropping. As far as doing their KBs and interrupts when the relic drops, it makes no difference whether they are holding the relic or not. They can still do stand in the middle and aoe KB either way, so holding the relic or not makes no difference.

If a dps class grabs the relic, it's not his job to run out of heal range chasing random people around the map, it's his job to stay alive and score points.

Sk and brawler heals are insignificant. I like how you say paladins have no spike healing, but then suggest even shadowknights and brawlers are good at holding the relic because they can heal themselves. You do realize the relic is spike damage? The 10 second immunity to damage is ok... but it's only 10 seconds, is dispellable, and doesn't always work. It by no means makes up for the less HP, drop target deaggros, and kiting/cc abilities scouts have. Good tanks holding aggro in addition to all of the benefits scouts have, even further the reasons why scouts are better for holding the relic. Mages too.

Priests are good if they can break away from combat and heal for a min where everyone leaves them alone, but if they stand in the middle, they are just a huge target. Also, while the priest is holding the relic, his ability to keep his group alive is SEVERELY reduced, and then he is down for up to 30 seconds after death. A huge waste group survivability. In a perfect world, healers should only pick up the relic when close to OOP, or when they can get away and break combat somewhere.

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Old 05-10-2012, 02:53 AM   #40
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Applo wrote:

Bloodrage:

It's true I've seen it on RARE occasions.  I've actually BG'd with all 3 of your toons you showed here and never saw parses like this from any of them

I never said you couldn't dps

lol yes you did.

only disagree with the amount of worth you seem to think it is to your teams victory.

I think you underestimate the amount high dpsers contribute to the outcome of the match. I win 90% or more of the matches I play & I queue solo 90% of the time.

Just an observation, in the first two screenshots a troub did 100k as well.

Yes Kinison is my brother irl, he parses well. Most troubs don't. I never said troubs cannot parse, I disagreed with you claiming troubs can beat any other scout 1 vs 1 which was a completely uneducated lie.

And in every screenshot you had and were against healers, taking minimal damage in almost every single one.  Judging from your lack of dying you didn't pick up the relic either.

Yes there are healers in bgs... what's your point? Also I did grab the relic in every game I just don't primarily grab it or grab it often as I am busy doing my job as a dps class.... and lol... of course I take minimal damage... im a geared RANGER. I stay at range & kill anything that gets close to me. I stay in areas that are harder to get to. I'm not a tank, I'm not supposed to take damage.

I would guess your parses would have been incredibly dwarfed like the only warlock in any of them, Derail, if you'd been beat on as he was.

Obviously if I let the enemy team pile on me everytime I wouldn't parse well... you continue to repeat the same nonsense. We all know if everyone kills you, you cannot dps well. We all know if teams have healers more dps is possible... what is your point? Most BGs have healers in them & in most BGs I avoid attention & swiftly kill anyone who attacks me to maintain my dps.

I tend to ignore people that shout in bgs often or rage in forums as often as you do. I commend your parses, am entertained by your rage and your contradictions though.

Only time I really /shout in BGs is when I'm talking to friends on the enemy team. Not quite sure what you mean there. Also sad that you decided to use the same cop out old tired played out rage card when you had nothing else to say. No one is raging... I simply stated facts with screenshots proving them. If anyone is mad or "raging" it's you.

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Old 05-10-2012, 03:07 AM   #41
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[email protected] wrote:

Bloodrage wrote:

uh, priests and fighters are easier to keep alive since they generally stay in the center to keep control of the relic and keep everyone alive. scouts run off up top and wherever else they have to go to kill enemy dps, enemy chanters, and enemy healers that try to hide in a spot where they can do their job uninterrupted. Also paladins, sks, brawlers, and healers can heal themselves, crusaders and clerics have immunities to damage, ect ect making them better for grabbing the relic. Fighters can also knockback or encounter taunt right when they are about to die with the relic ensuring that people are knocked back or cannot change targets when the relic drops. Priests can also aoe fear stifle mezz, ect to ensure the same outcome. All the more reason for priests/fighters or low dps/undergeared people who aren't rly contributing to grab the relic. You're doing everyone favors by not picking up the relic, you can only dps a short period of time while holding the relic and scoring points since you will die faster than most being an offensive scout & will not be able to do your job because everyone will be piling on you. Instead you are focusing on killing enemy chanters, healers, dps, and enemies who would grab the relic if not dead. <--- fixed that for you

also, lay on hands = spike heal once every 5 minutes <---- fixed that for you as well

You play scouts and maybe tanks, that's probably a big part of the reason you have no idea who is easiest to heal. You have some fancy theory-craft, but in reality it doesn't work that way.

Wrong I have Lestat my warlock & Saint my mystic. I just don't play them often as I do not like playing a class that has to rely on others.

Fighter have too much HP and pull too much aggro to be the best for holding the relic. Actually, although everyone should be trying to click the relic in a close match... fighters are the absolute worst for holding it. Fighters usually stand in the center, but that only matters when the relic is dropping. As far as doing their KBs and interrupts when the relic drops, it makes no difference whether they are holding the relic or not. They can still do stand in the middle and aoe KB either way, so holding the relic or not makes no difference.

In a close match I do grab the relic, however, staying in the center is counter-productive for a ranger & any other ranged dps as it allows other classes to get in close & focus on them & also works against their ranged attacks. In addition, most scouts have the same hp as tanks... you seem to be new or something... pvp gear has the same stats for all classes, only some tanks get sta on their def stance, and it is minimal. Many scouts get alot of hp in their aa lines and swash even gets it in their self buff. My ranger has more hp than most tanks unless they reforge their gear for hp which is moronic. Tanks & healers can do their job while holding the relic, scouts cannot rly do their job while holding the relic. Tanks are usually in def stance & can absorb/avoid more dmg than scouts from pvp while holding the relic whereas scouts cannot.

If a dps class grabs the relic, it's not his job to run out of heal range chasing random people around the map, it's his job to stay alive and score points.

Obviously they shouldn't run from heals, and obviously they cannot focus on dpsing if they are holding the relic or dead from the relic.

Sk and brawler heals are insignificant. I like how you say paladins have no spike healing, but then suggest even shadowknights and brawlers are good at holding the relic because they can heal themselves. You do realize the relic is spike damage? The 10 second immunity to damage is ok... but it's only 10 seconds, is dispellable, and doesn't always work. It by no means makes up for the less HP, drop target deaggros, and kiting/cc abilities scouts have. Good tanks holding aggro in addition to all of the benefits scouts have, even further the reasons why scouts are better for holding the relic. Mages too.

Their heals are significant when they grab the relic and go hide somewhere & heal themselves out of combat which often happens in a bg where everything is focused in the center. Even in combat their heals are more significant than a scout with NO heals.

Priests are good if they can break away from combat and heal for a min where everyone leaves them alone, but if they stand in the middle, they are just a huge target. Also, while the priest is holding the relic, his ability to keep his group alive is SEVERELY reduced, and then he is down for up to 30 seconds after death. A huge waste group survivability. In a perfect world, healers should only pick up the relic when close to OOP, or when they can get away and break combat somewhere.

A healer standing with their back to the box in the middle off to the side of the box can negate alot of scouts abilities to dps them from behind & with a decent tank guarding them they can hold the relic for quite a while even standing right in the fray. They can also keep themself alive as well as group heal so it's win win. Healers also have cc and support that helps them stay alive longer to hold the relic longer. You mentioned scout cc but not healer cc. Wardens have nature walk to escape most scout's spike dmg as well as a root, mezz, and snare, inquisitors can root/stifle, mezz, and stun, templars can stun and mezz, defilers can fear and root, and mystics can mezz and root, and all priests can deaggro.

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:07 AM   #42
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Bloodrage wrote:

In a close match I do grab the relic, however, staying in the center is counter-productive for a ranger & any other ranged dps as it allows other classes to get in close & focus on them & also works against their ranged attacks. In addition, most scouts have the same hp as tanks... you seem to be new or something... pvp gear has the same stats for all classes, only some tanks get sta on their def stance, and it is minimal. Many scouts get alot of hp in their aa lines and swash even gets it in their self buff. My ranger has more hp than most tanks unless they reforge their gear for hp which is moronic.
You don't need to stay in the center, just be in the center when the relic drops... There's this thing called jousting, you should google it sometime. You must be new... every tank I've ever played (which is all but monk and paladin) get hp buffs. I also find it interesting you think 75 stamina on a defensive stance at level 39 which is ~300 hp is minimal. Also, not many people are running around in full 2 year old pvp gear anymore, people are mixing/matching dps gear and reactant gear. Sorry, I don't count terrible tanks in timerous deep gear with 3k hp in this conversation. Regardless, you don't need a lot of hp. The only thing hp does is compensate for the times you have a bad healer. 4k is plenty of hp for anyone in gears, and anything more than that is a detriment if you have a good healer on your team. It doesn't matter if you have 4k or 7k hp... i will keep you alive the same... I don't even run group hp buffs in gears unless team is squish, and you would do more dps not reforging your gear to unnecessary hp. This is why you are pleased to break 120k while other players are pulling 200k+. But if you want to setup your char for dpsing in scrubby groups, it's your $15
Tanks & healers can do their job while holding the relic, scouts cannot rly do their job while holding the relic. Tanks are usually in def stance & can absorb/avoid more dmg than scouts from pvp while holding the relic whereas scouts cannot.
How excatly can you not click your combat arts while holding the relic... really? I have no problem dpsing as a ranger/bst while holding the relic, or holding aggro as a tank. The relic damage has zero effect on my gameplay as a melee class other than using any saves I might have up to soak a little relic damage. Healers and mages get interrupted and have casting times 2 - 5 times longer than your CAs... with all the KB and BL stifle spam, at least you can still get your CAs off and auto attack for 1k+ while stifled. Group HoT? Yea... don't even waste your time trying to cast that.

Their heals are significant when they grab the relic and go hide somewhere & heal themselves out of combat which often happens in a bg where everything is focused in the center. Even in combat their heals are more significant than a scout with NO heals.

It doesn't happen that often, the only paladin I have ever seen run off and heal out of combat is ohyea or whatever his name is... and most of the time people follow him anyway. Again, if you have a bad team that lets healers and paladins run off and heal out of combat, then that sucks... but I'm not really talking about playing with morons in terrible gear. So in any normal decent match, either way you're getting heals from the priests whether you're a scout or paladin. And if you're a paladin you should be holding aggro, so all your heals are doing is offsetting incoming dps. If you're a scout with the relic, you should have your tanks holding aggro for one, and you could switch to a slightly more defensive posture... sacrifce a little dps delaying an autoattack or hard hitting CA in order to throw down a deaggro, root, or well-timed stun. But still doing your job just fine.

A healer standing with their back to the box in the middle off to the side of the box can negate alot of scouts abilities to dps them from behind & with a decent tank guarding them they can hold the relic for quite a while even standing right in the fray. They can also keep themself alive as well as group heal so it's win win.

Most dps comes from autoattacks, especially with all the dps mod and haste gear available, and there are very very few combat arts that require you to be behind the targets, almost all over them flanking is fine. Even still, so you can't get in a magic mit debuff or a parry debuff or something... big deal. Still getting stifled by BLs, trauamtic swiped by rogues (almost impossible to cure btw), stunned and chronosiphoned by chanters, constant KB spam from all the crusaders and zerkers, and doom judgement & rogue taunt spam.

It's a hell of a lot easier healing your scout holding the relic while I'm standing on top of a box unhindered somewhere than it is to heal myself (and hopefully my group) while standing corned in that box (terrible terrible strat btw) trying to brute force heal through heavy dps, dispel spam, and CC spam.

Also... they can stand above you on top of the box and still get you from behind, making this whole point worthless. And lol group heal... you sure you've played a healer big guy... a mystic even?

Healers also have cc and support that helps them stay alive longer to hold the relic longer. You mentioned scout cc but not healer cc. Wardens have nature walk to escape most scout's spike dmg as well as a root, mezz, and snare, inquisitors can root/stifle, mezz, and stun, templars can stun and mezz, defilers can fear and root, and mystics can mezz and root, and all priests can deaggro.

I can't speak for other healers, but nature walk doesn't work in pvp, the root is a short duration long cast time... not usable when healing your own relic damage... the mez lasts like 3 seconds.... barely longer than the cast time... not usable if taking any moderate amount of relic damage... the only useful CC is pbaoe root + deaggro, but the duration is so low that your chances of getting away and not being rooted/snared/stunned/kb'd yourself are virtually none.

But hey, you have a mystic you hardly ever play that has probably never even kissed 80k healed, so obviously you would know better about who's easiest to heal relic damage than I. Don't want to be big headed, but tbh idk anyone that has healed a gears for more, and even I can't keep up a tank with the relic and 6k+ hps for more then 60ish seconds or so.

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:59 AM   #43
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Bloodrage wrote:

Applo wrote:

Bloodrage:

It's true I've seen it on RARE occasions.  I've actually BG'd with all 3 of your toons you showed here and never saw parses like this from any of them

I never said you couldn't dps

lol yes you did.

No I didn't say you coudn't dps, read that again.  I've never seen parses like the ones you've shown here in game.  If I were in a bg against you, I would have attacked you or directed someone else to attack you if you were doing this type of damage and you wouldn't hit these type of numbers as rangers are completely dependent on RANGED dps to pull off extremely high parses.  The sheer fact that someone is attacking you in melee range decreases your dps, much less if they kill you. 

only disagree with the amount of worth you seem to think it is to your teams victory.

I think you underestimate the amount high dpsers contribute to the outcome of the match. I win 90% or more of the matches I play & I queue solo 90% of the time.

Opinions, we both have them.

Just an observation, in the first two screenshots a troub did 100k as well.

Yes Kinison is my brother irl, he parses well. Most troubs don't. I never said troubs cannot parse, I disagreed with you claiming troubs can beat any other scout 1 vs 1 which was a completely uneducated lie.

Yet you could name none that you've 1v1 against?  I leveled my T4 troub up several months ago, but he never lost a 1v1 to a ranger, ever.  Stalemate on that 'proof' I guess.  Troubs offer comprable dps, your screenshots prove it, and are not reliant on it all being ranged.  They additionally have utility that rangers do not.  In sum, they are a better asset to the group. 

And in every screenshot you had and were against healers, taking minimal damage in almost every single one.  Judging from your lack of dying you didn't pick up the relic either.

Yes there are healers in bgs... what's your point? Also I did grab the relic in every game I just don't primarily grab it or grab it often as I am busy doing my job as a dps class.... and lol... of course I take minimal damage... im a geared RANGER. I stay at range & kill anything that gets close to me. I stay in areas that are harder to get to. I'm not a tank, I'm not supposed to take damage.

Actually you are straight up lying about grabbing the relic in every game, you had 0 deaths in a few of these. The ones you did die, you got basically no heals which considering the amount of healing your healers did means you were likely out of range, something you would not have done if you'd had the relic.

I would guess your parses would have been incredibly dwarfed like the only warlock in any of them, Derail, if you'd been beat on as he was.

Obviously if I let the enemy team pile on me everytime I wouldn't parse well... you continue to repeat the same nonsense. We all know if everyone kills you, you cannot dps well. We all know if teams have healers more dps is possible... what is your point? Most BGs have healers in them & in most BGs I avoid attention & swiftly kill anyone who attacks me to maintain my dps.

We obviously play at different times, especially of late, because it is very rare for me to see a healer on both teams.  The fact that you are playing when more healers are active accounts for much of what you say about how often you get high parses and the screenshots you are producing. This aside, as a ranger you only have two things you can do to benefit your group.  One is ranged dps and is completely at the discretion of the opposing team whether they allow you to do this.  The other is to grab the relic and evade combat, which you've stated or shown you do not do. Seems to me that leaves your enjoyment completely at the mercy of others as well as your effectiveness for your team.  The aforementioned classes are not as dependent on others to give their contributions.

I think I've stated my views pretty clearly and despite my comments you've ignored that show how contradictory your views are, I'm done posting about it. 

To everyone one else, hope to see you all in a BG soon.

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Old 05-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #44
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Bored with this now since I've said all I wanted to say & have proven it time & time again. I'll correct you on a few things one more time, then be done with it.

Applo:

You seem obsessed with this "people let me dps thing". As previously stated it is obvious that if an entire team piles up on one person then the person being piled will not do so well. There is a reason for tanks, healers, chanters, ect in a pvp setting & that is to prevent such things as what you are stating. Nonetheless the fact is people do not have a choice most BG. If they all follow me around everytime they will never get the relic. If their dps doesn't try to kill our healer, if their tank doesn't try to keep aggro in the center, if their healers don't heal their group, ect ect they will lose. You must not play against me often because I can kill most players before they even get to me if they try chasing me. You also must not know the ranger class if you think they need to be ranged to dps. I usually stay ranged just to avoid attention but when someone runs up on me I can melee as well as range. I have all of my combat arts macro'd to trigger my ranged auto & my ranged auto will go off within a 5 meter range. I can basically stand right next to them & ranged auto. That being said if anyone runs up on me I just root, snare, evade, stun, ect & can keep them ranged & locked down til they die. If two people run up on me I can usually cc one while dpsing on the other & kill one or both of them before they can kill me. I anticipate people trying to gang up on me because of my damage output & gear up for it. I'm not one of them noob dpsers that uses all dps mod gear & focuses only on offense. I have 2 sets of gear macro'd for each situation & in the normal set I use I have more uncontested block & avoidance than most tanks (nearly 77% avoidance & nearly 20% uncontested block). Most scouts who run up on me get dodged/parries/blocked/avoided until they die. There are areas in gears like the ledge by your spawn point in which rangers can reach the center of the bg at so while you are running all the way around the map trying to get to me I can have you dead by that point.

Also the ledge near the center that you need to drop down from the top & backpetal to get to, most people fall while trying. If they land on the ledge with me I already have cheapshot queued on them, then use point blank shot to knock them off & kill them before they try it again. As far as deaths in the screenshots go I spoke without really checking since I know how I play. The ones I don't have deaths in are ones that weren't even close so I had no need to grab the relic. Also not grabbing the relic will give you less dps as it will leave you out of power half way through the bg so I'm not sure why you think you get more dps if you don't grab the relic. If it's a close game I'll try grabbing the relic. If it's a game we are obviously going to win I usually won't grab it unless I'm out of power. As far as the troub 1 vs 1 thing goes, no. I cannot remember a troub worth mentioning aside from my brother Kinison who in 5+ years playing together on nagafen has never once beaten me & Slowed (doesn't play anymore) who was also an excellent troub that has never beaten me. I'm not even sure what is going through your head when you think a troub can beat a ranger. Ranger has more avoidance, the same resists, and alot more dps if comparing 2 people with equal gear. Only thing troub has an upper hand with is a very short duration stifle in which doesn't do anything to a ranger since ranger gets most dps from auto attack. Also ranger has more stuns, a root, and more snares. Why would you think a troub could beat a ranger?

Malevolencexx:

Most of what you say is just condescending or flat out insults to mask the fact that you rly don't have a clue. Judging by the fact that you ragequit the last two bgs that you faced me in, I shouldn't rly even respond... but I'll give you one more brief response. My mystic has healed far more than 80k and I don't play an ezmode warden like you. Since you don't know about your own class, I'll teach you. Nature walk DOES work in BGs and we are talking about BGs, NOT pvp. GG newbie. My arguement is that it is more beneficial to the team for someone who is not contributing much to dps/heals/aggro control/cc such as an undergeared player OR a tank or healer & that arguement still holds true. I don't care if it is barely slightly easier to HEAL a scout (in which I don't agree with) but even so my arguement is that others classes (such as the one I mentioned) can better hold the relic while still doing their job than scouts. Oh yeah & only crusaders get sta on their def stance... you should do some research since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The reactact/mixed gear thing is also a moot point since both tanks and scouts can and do use mixed gear and the reactant gear for both have the same stats just like pvp gear.

This is a fact no matter how much you try to deny it. I'm not going to state all of the reasons again as I already have. Since you seem uneducated in scouts as you were about nature walk, I'll explain another thing to you. Many scouts can be interrupted. Rangers can have all of their ranged ca's interrupted. Rangers need to stand still to cast them & they do have a casting time. A ranger standing still = a dead ranger. A ranger cannot use ranged ca's with the team piled up on them in melee range, they cannot cast with all of the stun/stifle ect as well as interrupts, and so on. It's hard enough to get t4 tanks to click their taunt buttons, let alone worry about protecting anyone but a healer. I have never seen a scout break 200k as you claim & every game you play with me I am top dps or you ragequit & don't get to see the outcome cause you are tired of me killing you. I have broken 200k but that was back when we had our TSO lines & that is probably what you are talking about unless you are flat out lying or talking about before Yeastlords had their retardedly high dps toned down (in which is still outrageous if people aren't smart enough to kill their pet). I have never seen you heal anything special even while playing an ezmode warden. I've even seen Eraya, Eliat, Koimo, and many other people outheal you & many of them are templars/paladins.

Done with this now. Queue up t4 bgs and watch your team lose time & time again to heavy dps on the other team killing anyone before they can heal, taunt, dps, grab the relic, ect ect then try to tell me that dps isn't as important as I said it is. Funny how I have never even heard of Applo & Malevolencexx ragequits anytime he isn't on the winning team, yet both of you talk as if you are decent or know something. Hope to see yas in BG & hope Sixgauge stays long enough to see the outcome of each BG.

Edit: Oh & gratz on losing to me 1 vs 1 in mara Sixgauge... I am curious to know how a geared warden loses to a ranger that is in bg/pve gear? Guess they just have to be bad like you. You hid behind a tree the entire fight & still lost... infront of your friends.. and on youtube... so so bad.. after all that crap you talked in the previous bg... so bad man. Eraya has a good warden & she is one of your guildies. Perhaps she can show you the ropes newbie?

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Old 05-10-2012, 06:20 PM   #45
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We have to fight again now can't have a tie.... as far as evertying else in your post, sure thing champ.

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Old 05-10-2012, 06:27 PM   #46
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Bloodrage wrote:

 I have never seen you heal anything special even while playing an ezmode warden. I've even seen Eraya, Eliat, Koimo, and many other people outheal you & many of them are templars/paladins.

umm, isn't one of these your character? there are plenty of 200k dps parses on eq2flames. And of course I get out healed, I don't go balls out 110% every match. I actually play the objective (most of the time depending on what I feel like doing), not constantly trying to see how hard I can heal.

And gratz on killing someone on a PvP server. Don't get too excited, I killed you too. Now we have to go again. And since you brought it up, when I met Eraya she was a 25 templar grinding on a double xp weekend in FG. I told her about BGs and helped her get set up and took her on her first BG match in Den, and she topped the heal parse her first match ever.... so don't even go there.

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Old 05-10-2012, 07:44 PM   #47
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umm, isn't one of these your character? there are plenty of 200k dps parses on eq2flames.

There are no 200k dps parses on flames in t4 that are dated after the removed of tso lines and beastlord nerf. Furthermore, I have never seen anyone parse 200k+ since then and I BG often. Also have never seen you heal anything near that. You are usually around 100k. There is nothing special about a warden's heal parse anyway since it is mostly from healing relic damage, NOT from healing pvp. Shaman/cleric reactive/wards do not work on relic damage so druids have the obvious advantage on healing. Druids have been one of the most overpowered classes since the introduction of pvp in eq2 and it truly is sad seeing a druid try to brag. Play a real healer class then talk.

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Old 05-11-2012, 01:57 AM   #48
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Kinison wrote:

Also have never seen you heal anything near that.

That's not surprising since I don't even know who you are or remember seeing you in a BG. I break 200k regularly.

it truly is sad seeing a druid try to brag. Play a real healer class then talk.

Who's bragging? Dude called me out saying he's never seen me parse worth anything, I posted evidence so he could see what a tool he's being.

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Old 05-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #49
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You do not regularly parse 200k+ and barely parse over 120k generally. When faced against a team with good dps you usually either get mad and quit, won't come down and fight, or parse under 100k. Only reason anyone knows you is because you are always running your mouth and aren't even good. I watched you lose to a ranger one on one as a warden. That is just sad. Sad that you disabled the ranger the whole fight by hiding behind a tree and making him come melee then you mesmerized him, rooted him, snared him, dispelled him, and dpsed. Still using this cheap or "strategic" as you might call it, tactic, you still lost... to a ranger... in teir 4... where druids are vastly overpowered. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Judging by the damage received on the tanks in your group and your deaths, looks like you only healed that because you had two good tanks keeping aggro and someone else grabbing the relic. You probably just hid up top and spammed your overpowered warden heals on the relic holder and the tank. The other team had 3 tanks and a beastlord, all of which stay in the center the whole time so no one prolly even chased you either. Those tanks did alot of dmg but no spike dmg therefor you could easily heal it with your eyes closed. Typically you could not do this. Stop bragging, you are a warden. Try playing a real healer class and not hugging the easy classes all the time.

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Old 05-11-2012, 01:02 PM   #50
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double post

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Old 05-11-2012, 04:48 PM   #51
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DivinitysEdge wrote:

You do not regularly parse 200k+ and barely parse over 120k generally

um, I parse 80-100k just by not being afk. I have more 200k+ screenshots, but honestly it happens regularly enough I don't even screenshot it anymore. When I break 230k, or something else fancy happens I'll prob take another screenshot. Feel free to not look at it if it bothers you. I have 200k+ screenshots in ganak, tundra, and den, so you can take your little that only comes from healing relic damage theory and tell it to someone who might fall for your second-hand knowledge. Also, I am not the only healer parsing 200k+, with scouts hitting 130k on a regular basis, it's not hard or uncommon, and depends solely on your character setup and groups.

Idk why you and blood say I rage quit since I have never rage quit a BG before. There have been many times since BGs came out that the game has locked up and crashed and then I have 5 min of truancy, but that happens regardless of maps teams or score. Now, standing up top and not running down into a scout meat grinder like a lemming when I have a useless team and outnumbered is another story. If that's rage quitting, then whatever... get over it.

I watched you lose to a ranger one on one as a warden. That is just sad. Sad that you disabled the ranger the whole fight by hiding behind a tree and making him come melee then you mesmerized him, rooted him, snared him, dispelled him, and dpsed. Still using this cheap or "strategic" as you might call it, tactic, you still lost... to a ranger... in teir 4... where druids are vastly overpowered. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Yea win some lose some. First off, don't get too sassy both those fights were with a tortois shell BG heal build since I was rushed to mara after a gears match, and had people sending me tells you comin?? Since the gear buff, scouts have capped dps mod, a lot of haste, and more hp. But I'm sure you're a champ and 1k+ autoattacks make you laugh. Cheap tactics is forcing a warden to 1v1 a ranger in the middle of a field. He could AT LEAST give me a small hill or pile of rocks to work with, I got a tree the thickness of a baseball bat, and a wide open flat field. And guess what? I still pk'd him, heal spec, no tricks, no cheerleaders, nothing fancy, his time, his place.

Let me guess your leet tactics: stand in the middle of mara while a ranger autoattacks you from 50 meters away and you spam heal yourself until you're oop and hand over your fame and coin. Good plan bro. Do you even play a healer? Have you ever even had a 1v1? You have to force a ranger to get close to you, or you're an empty beer can getting shot at at a redneck pig roast. When did using the world and terrain become a cheap tactic? ...such a tool. I keep hearing all this theory on how to play a warden from people that don't even play healers at all. But go ahead, I'm parsing 230k and pk'ing trash talkers like brokenbow 1v1, so I'm fine with being such a terrible player.

Broken D, please post a link to the youtube vid so we can all have a good laugh at how terrible I am at this game. TBH, talking smack is fun... but it was a balanced fair fight, lasted a long time, and it was close and could have gone either way, and any reasonable person that watches the fight will see that, and if you honestly believe wardens have some sic advantage over rangers you are sorely mistaken. I've killed him once and he's killed me once.

Also, wardens are hardly vastly overpowered against swash, bst, ranger, paladin, illy, coercer, or brig (haven't fought a decent assassin but I suspect it would suck). Wardens aren't killing anyone decent unless the target lets them.

P.S. aren't you some new dual-faction playing dbag in my guild?

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