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Old 08-26-2011, 03:33 PM   #421
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Raknid wrote:

 you really can't be specific off the cuff?

They already said off the cuff that there will be forthcoming adjustments to fix this, now they are working on specific details to give to us.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:41 PM   #422
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Raknid wrote:

What specifically is so hard about you being specific with your answers?

Because when you screw up royally and have to make it up as you go along, ergo have no plan, you really can't be specific off the cuff?

The guys that scaled the loot didn't do it in a void.  It is difficult for me to believe SJ doesn't know what it was scaled at or more directly is likely solely involved with instructing it to be scaled so.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:43 PM   #423
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Neskonlith wrote:

Raknid wrote:

 you really can't be specific off the cuff?

They already said off the cuff that there will be forthcoming adjustments to fix this, now they are working on specific details to give to us.

hehe It was a rehtorical answer. You should put more emphasis on the first part if you really wanted to see where I was going. SMILEY

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:47 PM   #424
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SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Ok seriously, I'm very upset! I can't use my runspeed, mount speed, and food and drink aa's anymore on my low level adventurers even if they're level 90 crafters?!? Becuase I don't want to level my adventure side on certain characters for roleplay purposes I can no longer use these? That's completely ridiculous. These AA's are useful for crafters runspeed/mountspeed helps us mob dodge while harvesting and we use drinks to keep our power up while crafting so the duration of drinks is important to us. I would like the General level of the Shadow Tab unlocked please, or at least those 3 AA's. I don't care about the rest but those in my opinion have no business being locked for high level crafters. Make us wait till we've reached the equivilent crafting level, that's fine, but give them back please.

We agree. This will be fixed in next week's hotfix.

These changes will be in next week's hotfix:

Ample Harvest now improves Ground Mount Speed like Swift Journey from the Shadows tree.

Swift Creation now improves out of combat run speed like Swift Strides from the Shadows tree.

High Quality Materials now improves the duration of food and drinks like Bountiful Feast from the Shadows tree.

All of the Tradeskill Advancements stack with the similar Shadows advancement.

 

(NOTE: This was easy info to gather compared to the Heroic vs Raid discussion. That information is still forthcoming.)

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:49 PM   #425
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What's ironic is that most of the stats (save crit mit / red adorn) on the new heroic zone loot look like what the HM raid zones should've been dropping. That's the kind of jump that would've made killing HM mobs worth the effort, and it's probably the kind of stats that were needed before multiple nerfs came (and are still to come). 

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:50 PM   #426
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[email protected] wrote:

The guys that scaled the loot didn't do it in a void. 

Considering how often, by how many different people, they were told things were utterly screwed .... I have to really wonder about this assertion. It very much feels as if this patch WAS developed "in a void", by people who for whatever reason were not paying the least attention to the Test Server players.

In fact, that's been an issue with SOE for years now: patches get pushed to Test, Test Server players complain that things are buggy & wonky, patches get pushed live anyway, Live customers wail in anguish over things that should have been caught prior to release, many mea culpas are issued, & the next patch cycle repeats the whole process all over again.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:54 PM   #427
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JazzMaus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The guys that scaled the loot didn't do it in a void. 

Considering how often, by how many different people, they were told things were utterly screwed .... I have to really wonder about this assertion. It very much feels as if this patch WAS developed "in a void", by people who for whatever reason were not paying the least attention to the Test Server players.

In fact, that's been an issue with SOE for years now: patches get pushed to Test, Test Server players complain that things are buggy & wonky, patches get pushed live anyway, Live customers wail in anguish over things that should have been caught prior to release, many mea culpas are issued, & the next patch cycle repeats the whole process all over again.

Thank you sir may I have another.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:54 PM   #428
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SmokeJumper wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Ok seriously, I'm very upset! I can't use my runspeed, mount speed, and food and drink aa's anymore on my low level adventurers even if they're level 90 crafters?!? Becuase I don't want to level my adventure side on certain characters for roleplay purposes I can no longer use these? That's completely ridiculous. These AA's are useful for crafters runspeed/mountspeed helps us mob dodge while harvesting and we use drinks to keep our power up while crafting so the duration of drinks is important to us. I would like the General level of the Shadow Tab unlocked please, or at least those 3 AA's. I don't care about the rest but those in my opinion have no business being locked for high level crafters. Make us wait till we've reached the equivilent crafting level, that's fine, but give them back please.

We agree. This will be fixed in next week's hotfix.

These changes will be in next week's hotfix:

Ample Harvest now improves Ground Mount Speed like Swift Journey from the Shadows tree.

Swift Creation now improves out of combat run speed like Swift Strides from the Shadows tree.

High Quality Materials now improves the duration of food and drinks like Bountiful Feast from the Shadows tree.

All of the Tradeskill Advancements stack with the similar Shadows advancement.

(NOTE: This was easy info to gather compared to the Heroic vs Raid discussion. That information is still forthcoming.)

I find this hard to believe.  What info do you need to gather? Your telling me you guys didnt know this was the case? EM Heroic GU61 gear is better than HM/EM DOV and EM drunder gear and no one noticed??  No I think your scambling to figure out what to do to calm the enraged masses and have backed yourself into a corner.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:57 PM   #429
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[email protected] wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Ok seriously, I'm very upset! I can't use my runspeed, mount speed, and food and drink aa's anymore on my low level adventurers even if they're level 90 crafters?!? Becuase I don't want to level my adventure side on certain characters for roleplay purposes I can no longer use these? That's completely ridiculous. These AA's are useful for crafters runspeed/mountspeed helps us mob dodge while harvesting and we use drinks to keep our power up while crafting so the duration of drinks is important to us. I would like the General level of the Shadow Tab unlocked please, or at least those 3 AA's. I don't care about the rest but those in my opinion have no business being locked for high level crafters. Make us wait till we've reached the equivilent crafting level, that's fine, but give them back please.

We agree. This will be fixed in next week's hotfix.

These changes will be in next week's hotfix:

Ample Harvest now improves Ground Mount Speed like Swift Journey from the Shadows tree.

Swift Creation now improves out of combat run speed like Swift Strides from the Shadows tree.

High Quality Materials now improves the duration of food and drinks like Bountiful Feast from the Shadows tree.

All of the Tradeskill Advancements stack with the similar Shadows advancement.

(NOTE: This was easy info to gather compared to the Heroic vs Raid discussion. That information is still forthcoming.)

I find this hard to believe.  What info do you need to gather? Your telling me you guys didnt know this was the case? EM Heroic GU61 gear is better than HM/EM DOV and EM drunder gear and no one notice??  No I think your scambling to figure out what to do to calm the enraged masses and have backed yourself into a corner.

Ease up here. There are several solutions and none are easy and all propably require a good deel of introspective thinking about where itemization is headed.

I prefer a better understanding of the solution as opposed to a kneejerk here.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #430
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JazzMaus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The guys that scaled the loot didn't do it in a void. 

Considering how often, by how many different people, they were told things were utterly screwed .... I have to really wonder about this assertion. It very much feels as if this patch WAS developed "in a void", by people who for whatever reason were not paying the least attention to the Test Server players.

I empathize with your assertion here.  The itemization script does some things that are not ideal for sure.  However said script almost certainly runs with a 'seed value'  ie, the loot generated for this zone will contain this list of slots and use X number of itemization points for the script to itemize with.

Everyone certainly knew the base point value provided to the script for this zone, and how that compaired to the base point value of the prospective raid zones.  I honestly have enough faith in the developers who ran it that they didn't just fudge the seed number.  I'd pet money they pushed back even and said "wtfark. this can't be right?" and were told to do it anyway.

I could be wrong and all, but what information I've gathered about the internal workings of SOE over the years makes me believe the above is more likely to have happened than most of the alternatives.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #431
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GussJr wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

No he makes it pretty clear that Only Dunder HM gear is suppose to be superior to POW Heroic gear.  Meaning DOV EM/HM and drunder EM are inferior.

No. You inferred that. I have never said any such thing.

Details will be forthcoming soon.

Don't feed the trolls, Smoke.

+1

QFE

With SJ and the other staff as of late being more active in responding to the forums I agree.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #432
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SmokeJumper wrote:

These changes will be in next week's hotfix:

All of those issues were brought up in the testing process.

Are you then saying you guys didn't agree with any of those reports, until the patch went live? But now, you agree with it to the point it's getting hot-fixed on Monday? But you need more time & information before making a decision on the DoV raid loots?

Forgive me if I've mis-inferred something, but what I'm getting from your comments bolsters my suspicion that you guys really are developing this game in a vacuum.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:00 PM   #433
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Honestly there can only be a few solutions. 

1. Roll back the new zones and keep the rest of the patch (Not going to happen because they have spent to much time/money developing it)

2. Nerf all new Heroic gear to be inline with DOV EM (not going to happen)

3. Buff all DOV / GU60 gear to be more inline with the new heroic gear (Not gonna happen because they would have to retune every EM/HM raid encounter to deal with the new OP gear)

So...

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:01 PM   #434
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[email protected] wrote:

JazzMaus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The guys that scaled the loot didn't do it in a void. 

Considering how often, by how many different people, they were told things were utterly screwed .... I have to really wonder about this assertion. It very much feels as if this patch WAS developed "in a void", by people who for whatever reason were not paying the least attention to the Test Server players.

I empathize with your assertion here.  The itemization script does some things that are not ideal for sure.  However said script almost certainly runs with a 'seed value'  ie, the loot generated for this zone will contain this list of slots and use X number of itemization points for the script to itemize with.

Everyone certainly knew the base point value provided to the script for this zone, and how that compaired to the base point value of the prospective raid zones.  I honestly have enough faith in the developers who ran it that they didn't just fudge the seed number.  I'd pet money they pushed back even and said "wtfark. this can't be right?" and were told to do it anyway.

I could be wrong and all, but what information I've gathered about the internal workings of SOE over the years makes me believe the above is more likely to have happened than most of the alternatives.

This, along with the fact that even when script generated you will always always spot check items, and go over the first few runs. As stated by several people, they can NOT be this out of touch with reality, the game and the mechanics of as to think this would fly. I see it now "Yeah i know, but it looks about right" ... nah dont think so

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:03 PM   #435
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Skwor wrote:

Ease up here. There are several solutions and none are easy and all propably require a good deel of introspective thinking about where itemization is headed.

I prefer a better understanding of the solution as opposed to a kneejerk here.

I find it hard to belive that they didnt have that sort of introspective thinking and discussions along with roadmaps for where itemization was headed in the first place, in which case ... they wouldnt need it now.

Or are you saying they didnt ?

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:03 PM   #436
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[email protected] wrote:

Honestly there can only be a few solutions. 

1. Roll back the new zones and keep the rest of the patch (Not going to happen because they have spent to much time/money developing it)

2. Nerf all new Heroic gear to be inline with DOV EM (not going to happen)

3. Buff all DOV / GU60 gear to be more inline with the new heroic gear (Not gonna happen because they would have to retune every EM/HM raid encounter to deal with the new OP gear)

So...

This is just plain silly. Your posit basically states any fix available is now not possible, if you really believe this why are you wasting time posting here?

Cognitive Dissonance much?

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:04 PM   #437
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

SmokeJumper,  Thanks for keeping us up to date on what is going on.  This update is very trying for many reasons.   The one I am most concerned about and some of my guildees have voiced to me is that Heroic instances (new DoV Heroic content) are dropping gear that is better than HM x4 Raid Zones (Old DoV x4 Raid Zones).   Is this going to be resolved at a later date.  As of now I have raiders who are wanting to stop raiding because the progression is not worth it as it is now.   Any specific plan to fix this, or can we expect this to stay the same now?   If you or another Dev can address this issue it would be appreciated. 

Thank you,

SmokeJumper,  You requested that we give you specific examples of gear issues.  Here are two that I have concerns about:

1. The Neck Item on the left drops from Kolskegger, Throne of Storms: Hall of Legends Easy Mode.  The item on the right drops from one of the new Heroic zones.  Are the new heroic items stats suppose to be better than DoV Easy Mode Raid Loot?

2.  The next image shows that Taltaak's Hammer of Cleansing dropped from Easy Mode Kraytocks is now inferior to a drop from the new Heroic Instance. 

Any information on this issue would be helpful.

I know I'm bumping my own post, but after the crap that was not related, I wanted to make sure this question gets an answer.

Smokejumper can you answer this question please?

I have canceled my payment and my account closes on Thursday.  Had my account open for six years.  Best of luck to all raiders.  After this "SNAFU" so close to the account hacking issue and being down for 3 weeks its all too much.  I enjoyed the game for so long and now I do not.  I have endured so much and am no longer willing to abide.   Best of luck to all who endure Sony and their poor, poor, management and customer service.  I am at peace.

Sorry you canned you account!  You'll be missed (guildie here).

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:05 PM   #438
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ease up here. There are several solutions and none are easy and all propably require a good deel of introspective thinking about where itemization is headed.

I prefer a better understanding of the solution as opposed to a kneejerk here.

I find it hard to belive that they didnt have that sort of introspective thinking and discussions along with roadmaps for where itemization was headed in the first place, in which case ... they wouldnt need it now.

Or are you saying they didnt ?

I am saying that maybe they are challanging those assumptions in any such roadmap prior to making any more sweeping changes.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:05 PM   #439
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ease up here. There are several solutions and none are easy and all propably require a good deel of introspective thinking about where itemization is headed.

I prefer a better understanding of the solution as opposed to a kneejerk here.

I find it hard to belive that they didnt have that sort of introspective thinking and discussions along with roadmaps for where itemization was headed in the first place, in which case ... they wouldnt need it now.

Or are you saying they didnt ?

I think it really comes down to this is what they planned on doing not expecting raiders to be so upset.  What has me so upset is that they would even try to force this new gear progression in and expect it to be ok.  Even if its fixed some how it will just be the same thing next time. Why is it ok to enrage your player base with these kinda of changes with the hope it wont happen?

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:11 PM   #440
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Blackbearder wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

SmokeJumper,  Thanks for keeping us up to date on what is going on.  This update is very trying for many reasons.   The one I am most concerned about and some of my guildees have voiced to me is that Heroic instances (new DoV Heroic content) are dropping gear that is better than HM x4 Raid Zones (Old DoV x4 Raid Zones).   Is this going to be resolved at a later date.  As of now I have raiders who are wanting to stop raiding because the progression is not worth it as it is now.   Any specific plan to fix this, or can we expect this to stay the same now?   If you or another Dev can address this issue it would be appreciated. 

Thank you,

SmokeJumper,  You requested that we give you specific examples of gear issues.  Here are two that I have concerns about:

1. The Neck Item on the left drops from Kolskegger, Throne of Storms: Hall of Legends Easy Mode.  The item on the right drops from one of the new Heroic zones.  Are the new heroic items stats suppose to be better than DoV Easy Mode Raid Loot?

2.  The next image shows that Taltaak's Hammer of Cleansing dropped from Easy Mode Kraytocks is now inferior to a drop from the new Heroic Instance. 

Any information on this issue would be helpful.

I know I'm bumping my own post, but after the crap that was not related, I wanted to make sure this question gets an answer.

Smokejumper can you answer this question please?

I have canceled my payment and my account closes on Thursday.  Had my account open for six years.  Best of luck to all raiders.  After this "SNAFU" so close to the account hacking issue and being down for 3 weeks its all too much.  I enjoyed the game for so long and now I do not.  I have endured so much and am no longer willing to abide.   Best of luck to all who endure Sony and their poor, poor, management and customer service.  I am at peace.

Sorry you canned you account!  You'll be missed (guildie here).

Guildie here as well, will miss you SMILEY

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:12 PM   #441
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ease up here. There are several solutions and none are easy and all propably require a good deel of introspective thinking about where itemization is headed.

I prefer a better understanding of the solution as opposed to a kneejerk here.

I find it hard to belive that they didnt have that sort of introspective thinking and discussions along with roadmaps for where itemization was headed in the first place, in which case ... they wouldnt need it now.

Or are you saying they didnt ?

I think it really comes down to this is what they planned on doing not expecting raiders to be so upset.  What has me so upset is that they would even try to force this new gear progression in and expect it to be ok.  Even if its fixed some how it will just be the same thing next time. Why is it ok to enrage your player base with these kinda of changes with the hope it wont happen?

Basically telling people that all their time was wasted, and there is really no need to slave over the other raids now, and they didn't think people would be upset?

Sure, WoW is one of those games that outdates old content with the new and there is no overlap. People have gootten used to that. As a amtter of fact, a lot of my friends "quit" for a while when it starts to get closer to an expansion because they know they will just be wasting time. That works for WoW. They can afford for a couple million people to "quit" for a while. EQ2 can't.

By "quit" I basically mean quit playing. In our case. EQ2 would be a ghost town for half the year.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:16 PM   #442
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I am disappointed that all of my raid gear (EM/HM) except Drunder (HM) can be replaced by running an instance zone, every 18hours.

Additionally, I find it hard to believe they didn't pull specific items from each zone to confirm they were inline with their progression charts (i.e. all 2H from all zones to ensure proper progression).  When they got to teh 2H Priest weapon (legendary) with 17 CB/Pot, which is 2.6 above HM zones, they should have said "wait, this looks JACKED".

Lastly, i agree that the itemization guy probably said "it just isn't ready".  Someone, SJ perhaps, said "i'll give you 2 days...then we press".  I would have rather got flamed for a late release versus this debacle!!!

I'll wait to see SJ's response, but as I have said before, with a business model which needs happy customers to grow, SOE is doing a poor job!

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:17 PM   #443
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We've been unable to zone into our guildhall since the patch.  It just gets stuck loading.  It's happening to all of us.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:30 PM   #444
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Im not mad at SJ, he's clearly got a huge bullseye on his back right now and I think he's dealing with it (at least on the forums) rather well.  And I understand he cant make promises on here w/o consulting the team and having 100% understand of whats coming forward.

I dunno if my opinion matters at all but heres what I would do right now in this situation:  Revamp all DoV HM loot.  This wont be easy and prolly not a good idea to use an automated script (we've all seen how that works).  However 5 guys in the know can prolly get it done in a weekend.   I've seen a loot thread pop up on here and on the other forums specifically for raiders at least once a week since launch.  It is now time to heed that advice.  This loot coming out of EoW is what HM loot from kraytocs, throne and temple should of been all along.

I am perfectly happy with one rare item being the best in slot from a HM instance.  That is what keeps these things interesting.  However, upgrades in multiple armor slots dropping in legendary chests is rediculous.  That breaks progression.  That breaks common sense.   And that breaks the will of the players who log in religeously to raid every night.  This is not what you want to have happen.

Also I have seen you state verbatim that HM drunder is better than EoW challenge.   That is not the case.  And I have the gear to prove it.  Reference Ragebourne Gragor Haldane's drops.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:33 PM   #445
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[email protected] wrote:

Also I have seen you state verbatim that HM drunder is better than EoW challenge.   That is not the case.  And I have the gear to prove it.  Reference Ragebourne Gragor Haldane's drops.

He indicated this much atleast was wrong and would be fixed.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:57 PM   #446
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So is this thing (GU-61) screwed up enough to not bother logging in for a few more days?

I don't play much anymore and if it's a cluster I see no point in dealing with it.

I can't tell from all the threads and the strong QQ if it is really still broken or what?

Any input?

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Old 08-26-2011, 05:00 PM   #447
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

So is this thing (GU-61) screwed up enough to not bother logging in for a few more days?

I don't play much anymore and if it's a cluster I see no point in dealing with it.

I can't tell from all the threads and the strong QQ if it is really still broken or what?

Any input?

I'd like to know the same thing for the same reason... thank god that F.E.A.R. 3 is turning out to be so much fun.

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Old 08-26-2011, 05:00 PM   #448
ridgerbay

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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

So is this thing (GU-61) screwed up enough to not bother logging in for a few more days?

I don't play much anymore and if it's a cluster I see no point in dealing with it.

I can't tell from all the threads and the strong QQ if it is really still broken or what?

Any input?

The game functions fine, but they drastically changed the rules of the game.  If you're ok with that.  Have at it.  Just be prepared for Raider Rage!

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Old 08-26-2011, 05:01 PM   #449
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No reason not to log on now unless they're going to reset our gear and AAs again, and, as far as we know, they are not going to.  The gameplay itself is fine.  People are just emo'ing over raid gear being rendered obsolete by the new heroic zone (which is understandable to a degree, but it'll hopefully be fixed).

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Old 08-26-2011, 05:03 PM   #450
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Blackbearder wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

SmokeJumper,  Thanks for keeping us up to date on what is going on.  This update is very trying for many reasons.   The one I am most concerned about and some of my guildees have voiced to me is that Heroic instances (new DoV Heroic content) are dropping gear that is better than HM x4 Raid Zones (Old DoV x4 Raid Zones).   Is this going to be resolved at a later date.  As of now I have raiders who are wanting to stop raiding because the progression is not worth it as it is now.   Any specific plan to fix this, or can we expect this to stay the same now?   If you or another Dev can address this issue it would be appreciated. 

Thank you,

SmokeJumper,  You requested that we give you specific examples of gear issues.  Here are two that I have concerns about:

1. The Neck Item on the left drops from Kolskegger, Throne of Storms: Hall of Legends Easy Mode.  The item on the right drops from one of the new Heroic zones.  Are the new heroic items stats suppose to be better than DoV Easy Mode Raid Loot?

2.  The next image shows that Taltaak's Hammer of Cleansing dropped from Easy Mode Kraytocks is now inferior to a drop from the new Heroic Instance. 

Any information on this issue would be helpful.

I know I'm bumping my own post, but after the crap that was not related, I wanted to make sure this question gets an answer.

Smokejumper can you answer this question please?

I have canceled my payment and my account closes on Thursday.  Had my account open for six years.  Best of luck to all raiders.  After this "SNAFU" so close to the account hacking issue and being down for 3 weeks its all too much.  I enjoyed the game for so long and now I do not.  I have endured so much and am no longer willing to abide.   Best of luck to all who endure Sony and their poor, poor, management and customer service.  I am at peace.

Sorry you canned you account!  You'll be missed (guildie here).

Guildie here as well, will miss you

Thanks for the well wishes.  I'll be on before Thursday when my account lapses.

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