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Old 08-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #361
Maroger

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I would like to know what they plan to do about the script that took +STR gear and made it +AGI? It is now wothless for my character and I am not please -

Do you plan to fix the script that made this mess???

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #362
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Banditman wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

But heroic PoW gear is ok to be better than the rest of the raid gear?

My initial reaction was the same as yours . . . dubya-tee-eff.

However, after pondering, I am beginning to wonder if perhaps this isn't the official answer to the farm / gear-up problem that guilds trying to push into HM content are experiencing.

If this is the answer it a sad excuse for not working on the content you have over tuned.

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:48 PM   #363
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Banditman wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

But heroic PoW gear is ok to be better than the rest of the raid gear?

My initial reaction was the same as yours . . . dubya-tee-eff.

However, after pondering, I am beginning to wonder if perhaps this isn't the official answer to the farm / gear-up problem that guilds trying to push into HM content are experiencing.

If its better than the HM launch stuff, why would you go do it after you've geared up via heroics?

It means there are only one set of raids offering upgrades, why have any others?

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:50 PM   #364
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I am having a hard time understanding why a Heoric dungeon is going to have better loot on a common loot table than DoV original HM content, 6 months into the expasnsion.  If it was loot off a rare loot table fine I have no issues but why trivalize HM raid content with common heroic loot drops?  Is it becuase a vast majority of the guilds our progressing to slow and you want to move us along?

I just do not understand the logic of this move.

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:52 PM   #365
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[email protected] wrote:

Banditman wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

But heroic PoW gear is ok to be better than the rest of the raid gear?

My initial reaction was the same as yours . . . dubya-tee-eff.

However, after pondering, I am beginning to wonder if perhaps this isn't the official answer to the farm / gear-up problem that guilds trying to push into HM content are experiencing.

If its better than the HM launch stuff, why would you go do it after you've geared up via heroics?

It means there are only one set of raids offering upgrades, why have any others?

This.

Its like this, who would climb the mountain if there is a cable car taking you up there for 2cent?

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:52 PM   #366
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SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Basically Smokejumper admitted that the new Heroic gear from was intended to be better than release EM/HM gear.

No. I never said that.

I said that HM Drunder raid gear was supposed to be better than PoW heroic gear.

It is being adjusted to be that way.

more smokeblower double talk. Can you say ANYHTING CLEARLY???

Is POW heroic gear supposed to better than EM/HM non drunder gear ?

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:52 PM   #367
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Leovinus wrote:

I disagree.  I think that gear from Drunder EM should be equivalent to DoV HM, and PoW EM should be BETTER than DoV HM.

So your saying that raiders should be able to progress through and get everyone geared up etc. about every 3 months?

Is that truely your logic here?

3 EM, 3 HM instances, 24 people, 21 slots of gear...

Lets do this simple. a full raid force would need 504 invidual drops to gear out the entire force, then double that for EM and HM, so 1008 drops over the span of 3 months to progress through DoV EM and HM instances, that would be something akin to 11.2 USEABLE drops EVERY SINGLE DAY...

Yeah .. i dont think so

Yes and no.  Do you wait for everyone in your raid to be fully geared in EM before starting HM?  We don't either.  But the part of my post that you quoted isn't even related to what you just decided I was an idiot for.  What I'd like to see, and I suspect what the devs are trying to aim for is to make HM content clearable within the GU it was released in.  It might take a green raid force a few GUs to catch up, but smart use of adornments should be sufficient to allow for gearing "shortcuts". 

The content should never be designed such that having and adorning everything of the previous level of content for one specific stat is de-facto REQUIRED to do the next.  Current adorned (for crit/crit mit) heroic and some EM gear should be sufficient for starting in on current GU HM.  Previous (1 GU behind) HM and some previous EM (adorned for crit mit) should be sufficient to start in on current HM.

ETA: I guess I need to revise what I said.  I believe a green raid should be able to make use of current GU raid content within the GU it was released in, and make some headway to HM, and each GU should allow any given raid guild to get closer to clearing that GU, not fall farther behind, if they maintain the same level of ability.  This obviously didn't happen with the Drunder GU.

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #368
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[email protected] wrote:

I am having a hard time understanding why a Heoric dungeon is going to have better loot on a common loot table than DoV original HM content, 6 months into the expasnsion.  If it was loot off a rare loot table fine I have no issues but why trivalize HM raid content with common heroic loot drops?  Is it becuase a vast majority of the guilds our progressing to slow and you want to move us along?

I just do not understand the logic of this move.

NON of us have any issues with the rare Fabled piece dropping of some obscure mob in an obscure instance.. that is EXACTLY what keept people comming back to do the SF instances... and the RoK ones.. and the .. need i continue?

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:54 PM   #369
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[email protected] wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Basically Smokejumper admitted that the new Heroic gear from was intended to be better than release EM/HM gear.

No. I never said that.

I said that HM Drunder raid gear was supposed to be better than PoW heroic gear.

It is being adjusted to be that way.

more smokeblower double talk. Can you say ANYHTING CLEARLY???

Is POW heroic gear supposed to better than EM/HM non drunder gear ?

Just be smart and get rid of everything in this GU that has to do with POW. Keep the new aa and gear revamp but roll back the new zones.

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:54 PM   #370
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SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Basically Smokejumper admitted that the new Heroic gear from was intended to be better than release EM/HM gear.

No. I never said that.

I said that HM Drunder raid gear was supposed to be better than PoW heroic gear.

It is being adjusted to be that way.

You don't have to say it, its obviously true.  PoW heroic gear is better than release EM/HM gear.  There is a website called eq2.guildprogress.com   You should go and look at it.  Get some idea of what raid zones are actually being cleared.  Shouldn't you be moving on to kill another game by now?  planetside, tribes 2, everquest 2....

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:00 PM   #371
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I bought an item (tank 1 hander) from Element of War for my alt zerker last night and if it gets nerfed I'l be pretty upset. I understand the arguement, but it's gonna sukk for all of us that have bought items yesterday.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:02 PM   #372
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These "smoke" answers, choose your place to put that word, as a person, some that comes out of something else, and mirrrors...whatever, are doing nothing but making people angrier.

Quit beatting aorund the bush and trying so hard to not answer the question.

This is what we want answered.

How do the EoW zones fit into the current progression in regards to existing group and raid zones.????????

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:03 PM   #373
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Leovinus wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Leovinus wrote:

I disagree.  I think that gear from Drunder EM should be equivalent to DoV HM, and PoW EM should be BETTER than DoV HM.

So your saying that raiders should be able to progress through and get everyone geared up etc. about every 3 months?

Is that truely your logic here?

3 EM, 3 HM instances, 24 people, 21 slots of gear...

Lets do this simple. a full raid force would need 504 invidual drops to gear out the entire force, then double that for EM and HM, so 1008 drops over the span of 3 months to progress through DoV EM and HM instances, that would be something akin to 11.2 USEABLE drops EVERY SINGLE DAY...

Yeah .. i dont think so

Yes and no.  Do you wait for everyone in your raid to be fully geared in EM before starting HM?  We don't either.  But the part of my post that you quoted isn't even related to what you just decided I was an idiot for.  What I'd like to see, and I suspect what the devs are trying to aim for is to make HM content clearable within the GU it was released in.  It might take a green raid force a few GUs to catch up, but smart use of adornments should be sufficient to allow for gearing "shortcuts". 

The content should never be designed such that having and adorning everything of the previous level of content for one specific stat is de-facto REQUIRED to do the next.  Current adorned (for crit/crit mit) heroic and some EM gear should be sufficient for starting in on current GU HM.  Previous (1 GU behind) HM and some previous EM (adorned for crit mit) should be sufficient to start in on current HM.

No of course not, but we keep going back to get the pieces , or stay longer to get the next pieces as we progress etc because if you keep moving without upgrading you will dilute the gear value (no better word comes to mind) of the raid force as a whole. ie. the math stays the same, the time must be invested.

The last statement about how the progression of raid gear is more or less how you can envision it, but your still missing the math in it, you cant DO this in the time you allot, with there being 3 months between GU's ...

The reason your logic seems good is because previously when this was the CASE we where talking XPacks, which was 12 months apart, and a new raid zone was usually added like .. .6 months into the xpack, not 2 every 3 months.

The time to DO the gearing up your talking about simply does not exists if we look at with updates every GU.

Which brings us to PoW... its there to make up for that im beginning to suspect, its there to circumvent the previous 3EMs, 3HMs and some of Drunders Progression too.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:03 PM   #374
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[email protected]_old wrote:

I bought an item (tank 1 hander) from Element of War for my alt zerker last night and if it gets nerfed I'l be pretty upset. I understand the arguement, but it's gonna sukk for all of us that have bought items yesterday.

This entire fiasco should be rolled back immediately before it is allowed to fester any longer.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:03 PM   #375
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I think it's confirmed by now, all raids from now on are probably going to be deliberately overtuned as a stalling mechanic so they can tell us we have plenty of content to do, when over 50% of it doesn't even work and isn't tested in regards to whether they are even killable.

A lot of hard mode encounters at the upper end so far, are not even entertaining, and feel like an excercise in patience, flawless execution, and frustration for everyone involved. Anyone who has done Hard mode Valdemar or taken pulls on hard mode Gregore knows what I am talking about.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:05 PM   #376
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Leovinus wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Leovinus wrote:

I disagree.  I think that gear from Drunder EM should be equivalent to DoV HM, and PoW EM should be BETTER than DoV HM.

So your saying that raiders should be able to progress through and get everyone geared up etc. about every 3 months?

Is that truely your logic here?

3 EM, 3 HM instances, 24 people, 21 slots of gear...

Lets do this simple. a full raid force would need 504 invidual drops to gear out the entire force, then double that for EM and HM, so 1008 drops over the span of 3 months to progress through DoV EM and HM instances, that would be something akin to 11.2 USEABLE drops EVERY SINGLE DAY...

Yeah .. i dont think so

Yes and no.  Do you wait for everyone in your raid to be fully geared in EM before starting HM?  We don't either.  But the part of my post that you quoted isn't even related to what you just decided I was an idiot for.  What I'd like to see, and I suspect what the devs are trying to aim for is to make HM content clearable within the GU it was released in.  It might take a green raid force a few GUs to catch up, but smart use of adornments should be sufficient to allow for gearing "shortcuts". 

The content should never be designed such that having and adorning everything of the previous level of content for one specific stat is de-facto REQUIRED to do the next.  Current adorned (for crit/crit mit) heroic and some EM gear should be sufficient for starting in on current GU HM.  Previous (1 GU behind) HM and some previous EM (adorned for crit mit) should be sufficient to start in on current HM.

No of course not, but we keep going back to get the pieces, or stay longer to get the next pieces etc because if you keep moving without upgrading you will dilute the gear value (no better word comes to mind) of the raid force as a whole. ie. the math stays the same, the time must be invested.

The last statement about how the progression of raid gear is more or less how you can envision it, but your still missing the math in it, you cant DO this in the time you allot, with there being 3 months between GU's ...

The reason your logic seems good is because previously when this was the CASE we where talking XPacks, which was 12 months apart, and a new raid zone was usually added like .. .6 months into the xpack, not 2 every 3 months.

The time to DO the gearing up your talking about simply does not exists if we look at with updates every GU.

Which brings us to PoW... its there to make up for that im beginning to suspect, its there to circumvent the previous 3EMs, 3HMs and some of Drunders Progression too.

I have to go, but I think I may have misconstrued my intent in the original post, I made an edit I'll copy in here.

..................................

ETA: I guess I need to revise what I said.  I believe a green raid should be able to make use of current GU raid content within the GU it was released in, and make some headway to HM, and each GU should allow any given raid guild to get closer to clearing that GU, not fall farther behind, if they maintain the same level of ability.  This obviously didn't happen with the Drunder GU.

...................................

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:05 PM   #377
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One easy fix would be to make EoW super hard. Crit mit and dps checks. Fixes everybodies problem because you'll need to be HM raid geared to do the instance. Also make it a longer lockout timer so it's not on fast farm status.

After this you can call it "Heroic" if you want but it is a one group HM raid.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:08 PM   #378
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SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Basically Smokejumper admitted that the new Heroic gear from was intended to be better than release EM/HM gear.

No. I never said that.

I said that HM Drunder raid gear was supposed to be better than PoW heroic gear.

It is being adjusted to be that way.

Uhm.. "HM Drunder gear supposed to be better than PoW Heroic gear."

The logical inference from your statement is that "other HM gear is NOT supposed to be better than PoW heroic", which is exactly what the above poster is saying by saying with this "release EM/HM gear is not" commet.  So you DID say that.    

But to avoid confusion, here is the exact question again:  

"Is heroic EoW gear supposed to be better than:  1. EM X4 gear from Kraytocs, Temple, Throne;  2. EM X4 gear from Sullons, Tallons & Vallons;  3.  HM X4 gear from Kraytocs, Temple, Throne?"

Answering this question would leave no room for any further misunderstanding.  

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:11 PM   #379
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SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Basically Smokejumper admitted that the new Heroic gear from was intended to be better than release EM/HM gear.

No. I never said that.

I said that HM Drunder raid gear was supposed to be better than PoW heroic gear.

It is being adjusted to be that way.

So if I get this right you are basically saying a group of 6 players taking 2 hours to play are supposed to have better gear than 24 players taking a whole 20 hr (avg) week to raid within the same tier.

EPIC FAIL, if this is true the game has jumped the shark and EQ2 is soon to become a running joke of Duke Nukem proportion within the gaming community. This is right up there with SWG NGE, and will kill the game just as fast.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:11 PM   #380
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nvm

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:15 PM   #381
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Skwor wrote:

EPIC FAIL, if this is true the game has jumped the shark and EQ2 is soon to become a running joke of Duke Nukem proportion within the gaming community. This is right up there with SWG NGE, and will kill the game just as fast.

Yes, they jumped the shark.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:16 PM   #382
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

SmokeJumper,  Thanks for keeping us up to date on what is going on.  This update is very trying for many reasons.   The one I am most concerned about and some of my guildees have voiced to me is that Heroic instances (new DoV Heroic content) are dropping gear that is better than HM x4 Raid Zones (Old DoV x4 Raid Zones).   Is this going to be resolved at a later date.  As of now I have raiders who are wanting to stop raiding because the progression is not worth it as it is now.   Any specific plan to fix this, or can we expect this to stay the same now?   If you or another Dev can address this issue it would be appreciated. 

Thank you,

SmokeJumper,  You requested that we give you specific examples of gear issues.  Here are two that I have concerns about:

1. The Neck Item on the left drops from Kolskegger, Throne of Storms: Hall of Legends Easy Mode.  The item on the right drops from one of the new Heroic zones.  Are the new heroic items stats suppose to be better than DoV Easy Mode Raid Loot?

2.  The next image shows that Taltaak's Hammer of Cleansing dropped from Easy Mode Kraytocks is now inferior to a drop from the new Heroic Instance. 

Any information on this issue would be helpful.

I know I'm bumping my own post, but after the crap that was not related, I wanted to make sure this question gets an answer.

Smokejumper can you answer this question please?

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:16 PM   #383
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[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

EPIC FAIL, if this is true the game has jumped the shark and EQ2 is soon to become a running joke of Duke Nukem proportion within the gaming community. This is right up there with SWG NGE, and will kill the game just as fast.

Yes, they jumped the shark.

Yeah, but at least we have squirrels and /sitchair.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:17 PM   #384
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[email protected]_old wrote:

One easy fix would be to make EoW super hard. Crit mit and dps checks. Fixes everybodies problem because you'll need to be HM raid geared to do the instance. Also make it a longer lockout timer so it's not on fast farm status.

After this you can call it "Heroic" if you want but it is a one group HM raid.

Yes, if PoW was the dificulty of say then newer HM Guk when it was added, then it would perhaps justify the gear dropping  in it.

However, the difficulty bar isn't at that point.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:20 PM   #385
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No reply from SJ after he posted a reply to my question about the EM/HM/drunder EM gear.  Its obvious we have our answer. I just cant believe someone in his position could get so out of touch with the player base to not think that this GU would not totally Enrage people.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:20 PM   #386
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Leovinus wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Lots of stuffs removed cuz otherwise its impossible to read SMILEY

I have to go, but I think I may have misconstrued my intent in the original post, I made an edit I'll copy in here.

..................................

ETA: I guess I need to revise what I said.  I believe a green raid should be able to make use of current GU raid content within the GU it was released in, and make some headway to HM, and each GU should allow any given raid guild to get closer to clearing that GU, not fall farther behind, if they maintain the same level of ability.  This obviously didn't happen with the Drunder GU.

...................................

I can agree with the underlaying logic, however SMILEY ... in order to actually make it so its worth something, there have to be roadblocks, if any 2 day a week raid for 2 hours can do it and keep up.. then its not progression its just .. weird, on the other hand - which is what is currently happening - content gets released so fast its impossible to even get moving .. yeha

Need some place inbetween  and we used to have that with how raid progression was setup over time, and with how raid mechnics was not involved in heroics (Crit mit) so that you could progress and up the ante of each independently of the other.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:23 PM   #387
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Well...this explains the reports of Smoke going out and getting a new motorcycle and red/white/blue outfit. If you are gonna emulate the best then might as well do it right.

(At least if I am remembering the outfit right...and yes...I am that old and actually saw it on TV when it first aired)

Cue the Bill Haley background music.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:24 PM   #388
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SmokeJumper wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

24+ People, raiding zones for hours, weeks on end over and over again should equate to gear that six people toiling through a dungeon for two hours should not have access to. PERIOD! 

A couple of points to consider:

  • Heroic Plane of War items are not better than Challenge mode raid gear from Drunder. If you have specific examples of where this is true, please let us know and we'll adjust.
  • You haven't yet seen the raid gear in Plane of War. There's some truly spectacular stuff there that's likely to be the best in the game for a good chunk of time. Raiders will be very satisfied, very soon when they start Challenge mode raiding in that area.

I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that if heroic gear is better than easy mode gear from the three initial raid zones you can count my account as closed. This expansion has been out roughly 6 months and you are already making some of these zones obsolete and you are in short telling me that the last 6 months we just spent finally clearing those zones and steping into hard mode was a complete and total waste of time. I am sorry but this is the stratw that breaks the camels back. I spent way to much damm time organizing raids and spending 4 nights a week pounding on this stuff so that in the middle of the expansion you guys can just arbitrarily decide that I wasted my time.

You have two options- Do nothing and kiss me good bye and I am sure several others- OR Rethink what you did and make the heroic zone gear less than even EM equivilent.I am sorry but as a guild leader, I have had enough of this. Considering this is my first post on these forums in roughly 6 years should tell you that this is very serious.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:33 PM   #389
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As an ex-raider I welcome this newfound ability to gear up my toons for raiding without having to find a full raid and then suffer through the pick up raiding experience to tackle a couple of EM mobs.

Six man raids are a fantastic fresh idea, Imagine an x4 where you have to split into four groups and each tackle your own dungeon to clear to the boss where you all come together for an epic battle.

Guilds with raid forces who work hard for rewards are so five years ago. Six man raids is the wave of the future!

Lucky we got them now, before all the raiders bail for greener pastures and server populations make the forming of these new six man raids as challenging as setting up a HM pick up alt night raid.

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:38 PM   #390
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As a lower level player, the main thing I got hit by is the AA revamp.  I like the inclusion of tradeskill AAs, but by removing Bountiful Harvest from the TSO tree, I now have to spend an additional 5 AA to get into the Priest section.  I'm lucky I managed to make 50 recently too, because I would have been very irritated to have basically lost the ability to spend a bunch of my AA due to the new level limit.  So now the decision is not "Do I take a small hit in HP/Power so I can have bountiful harvest" its "Should I even have bountiful harvest at all".  Its quite irritating since I do gather a bunch while adventuring for rares.

I think that having two adventure relevant AA's in the tradeskill tree (the harvesting ones) is just as bad a problem as the general line of the TSO tree being blocked for tradeskill characters. 

Wasn't the whole point of this AA revamp (at least for the subclass tree) to get rid of wasting points? Now I have to waste points in the Tradeskill tree to get relevant adventuring bits (TSO tree choices isn't really a waste, just a choice I would have liked to be given)

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