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Old 08-18-2010, 05:44 PM   #61
Draylore

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Amnerys wrote:

If you've followed Fan Faire news, you'll see that the dev team really is eager to hear your feedback.

BS.

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:46 PM   #62
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Amnerys wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Probably why they hide from the players, because they are embarassed at the direction they are forced to steer the game too... Must suck to have your name as the developers that killed EQ2...  Bet that's a real resume builder..

Actually, just wanted to point out that the EQII team collective has made 687 posts (precisely up until this post) since the EQ2X announcement. I don't think they're hiding. They're happy to hear your constructive feedback.

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Also, please be sure to leave that constructive feedback here: GU57 Feedback

If you've followed Fan Faire news, you'll see that the dev team really is eager to hear your feedback.

And I'd like to point out it's been over 300 days since a Red Name has posted in the Illusionist forums..  Care to explain that?  And dev's sitting around BSing about the new station cash crap being soo pretty is far from any constructive discussion..

Nice try....

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:48 PM   #63
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Amnerys wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Probably why they hide from the players, because they are embarassed at the direction they are forced to steer the game too... Must suck to have your name as the developers that killed EQ2...  Bet that's a real resume builder..

Actually, just wanted to point out that the EQII team collective has made 687 posts (precisely up until this post) since the EQ2X announcement. I don't think they're hiding. They're happy to hear your constructive feedback.

SOE Post Tracker

Also, please be sure to leave that constructive feedback here: GU57 Feedback

If you've followed Fan Faire news, you'll see that the dev team really is eager to hear your feedback.

Hysteria is more powerful than facts.

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:48 PM   #64
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Andok wrote:

Hysteria is more powerful than facts.

TBH all that matters is community perception.

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:49 PM   #65
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Gaige wrote:

Andok wrote:

Hysteria is more powerful than facts.

TBH all that matters is community perception.

Very true, but the handful of posters here do not represent the entire community.

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:50 PM   #66
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Its mostly terrible this time round but that XP bar is the worst thing, I hate the station cash in your face aspect of it but I can deal with that if the bar was not so huge!

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:52 PM   #67
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Carthrax wrote:

And I'd like to point out it's been over 300 days since a Red Name has posted in the Illusionist forums..  Care to explain that?  And dev's sitting around BSing about the new station cash crap being soo pretty is far from any constructive discussion..

Nice try....

As it would be derailing to answer here, I'll send you a PM.

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:53 PM   #68
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Amnerys wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Probably why they hide from the players, because they are embarassed at the direction they are forced to steer the game too... Must suck to have your name as the developers that killed EQ2...  Bet that's a real resume builder..

Actually, just wanted to point out that the EQII team collective has made 687 posts (precisely up until this post) since the EQ2X announcement. I don't think they're hiding. They're happy to hear your constructive feedback.

SOE Post Tracker

Also, please be sure to leave that constructive feedback here: GU57 Feedback

If you've followed Fan Faire news, you'll see that the dev team really is eager to hear your feedback.

The trouble here is that they may be more than happy to *hear* our "constructive" feedback, but they've proven an unwillingness to actually listen to what we're saying or act on the feedback that they do get.

The feedback on certain aspects of this update such as the updated spells has been overwhelmingly negative, at least from what I can gather.  If they were listening rather than just hearing, they'd have done something about that rather than just implementing it as it is and essentially relaying the message that we just need to deal with it. 

We were told that certain class defining spells would retain their old effects... didn't happen, at least not for Shadowknights.  We were told Demonstration of Faith "duck and cover" would be fixed.  It was not.

What SOE as a whole seems unable or unwilling to understand is that "constructive" feedback can be *negative*.  If someone's stepping on my foot, and asks for constructive feedback on how they're doing, telling them to knock it off is a perfectly valid complaint.  But using that analogy, it's as if Sony just wants to hear if they should change into different shoes.

Presenting us with something that we almost unanimously dislike, then disregarding our negative feedback as "non-constructive" which if not outright said, was most definitely heavily implied shows not only a lack of regard for your paying customers, but a complete disconnect from the basic principles of software development.  You do not simply release unwanted content and then expect your users to deal with it, at least not if you intend to keep them as your users.

You can say "they want to hear your feedback" until you're blue in the face, but at this point, SOE has lost my faith, and it would appear, that of the community in general.  Actions speak louder than words.  It may be cliche, but in this instance, actually acting on our feedback is going to go a lot further towards earning back our loyalty than simply telling us "This is what we're going to do, now tell us what you hate least about this update".

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:53 PM   #69
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The-Plethora wrote:

Its mostly terrible this time round but that XP bar is the worst thing, I hate the station cash in your face aspect of it but I can deal with that if the bar was not so huge!

Oh, did you know that you can resize the bar? Not totally to how it once was, but it doesn't have to span edge to edge on your screen. Hitting F10 will bring up the black boxes around the UI windows, and you can grab the edges to shrink it down.

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:55 PM   #70
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We still have a ways to go before I can say if this update is worse than the "Bug Squash" update.  Bug Squash update was pretty amazingly terrible since it added a lot of bugs to the game that had a significant impact on my gameplay...can't remember all of them, but I think it bugged Gozak, among several other things?

So far, this update only actually hinders my "EQ2 experience" in two ways:

1) Takes time to get my UI working right.  I've already spent about an hour on it, and it's still not working as well as it did before...I just hope I don't realize something is terribly broken right as we start raiding tonight.

2) Not a fan of the healing animations.

EDIT:

3) Station Cash on the vendor window.I don't know...maybe by the end of the day it will pass the "bug squash" for worst ever?

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Old 08-18-2010, 05:59 PM   #71
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Amnerys wrote:

The-Plethora wrote:

Its mostly terrible this time round but that XP bar is the worst thing, I hate the station cash in your face aspect of it but I can deal with that if the bar was not so huge!

Oh, did you know that you can resize the bar? Not totally to how it once was, but it doesn't have to span edge to edge on your screen. Hitting F10 will bring up the black boxes around the UI windows, and you can grab the edges to shrink it down.

How do you remove the bar?

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:03 PM   #72
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I have shrunk it down horizontally and removed most of the icons although it is still bigger than it was, its the vertical height thats the problem.

I realise we are fighting a losing battle to ask for the SC icon to be removed but if it has to be there surely it can at least be made smaller?, its not like we cant see it.

Most people want this bar on their screen if they are not maxed out but its just way too big.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:03 PM   #73
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NrthnStar5 wrote:

You did forget something....

Elusion = Fail

In all fairness though, you go through a list of things and label them "fail" with no constructive reasoning behind why YOU feel they fail. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but imo your post fails simply as it has no substance.

Personally, I like the UI update, the spell revamp, the improvements to Shader 3.0. I'm indifferent about the SC button. I think it refreshes the game and I look forward to rolling an alt to enjoy it.

People get so bent out of shape that you would think the sky is falling. A heavy dose of perspective is needed.

THIS IS JUST A GAME. DO NOT LET IT RUIN YOUR DAY OR IMPACT YOUR ATTITUDE NEGATIVELY. THE WORLD HAS FAR MORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

It's "just" a game that we paid a lot of money for and put a lot of time into, and they just seriously downgraded one of its most compelling features: the graphics.

The new effects are so bad you can't tell what is being case, for how long, or even tell a lot of them apart.  They said some changes were for consistency but little of it is.

I don't see how anyone, being honest with themselves and others, can look at the degraded graphics and call them better.  They are degraded in every way that is generall accepted in the industry as a graphics feature.

The effects are incorrect, inconsistent, too short, all too similar, cartoonish and simple.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:06 PM   #74
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Amnerys wrote:

If you've followed Fan Faire news, you'll see that the dev team really is eager to hear your feedback.

Really? Because this is what I heard instead.....

Kander wrote:

I would love to tell you I appreciate your feedback, but not so much...

Sooo, maybe they're eager to hear all the feedback but they just don't appreciate it. I guess that could be the case.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:06 PM   #75
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Then you have not been playing long.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:08 PM   #76
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Andok wrote:

Very true, but the handful of posters here do not represent the entire community.

Oh I dunno, when you read through these threads and see post after post from people saying "I normally don't post here but..." and then following it up with I hate "the UI, the new spell animations, this crappy GU"...

Just saying~

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:10 PM   #77
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Jonaroth wrote:

but -1 to all other "fails" to the OP, all the changes were pretty good and needed IMO. A lot of the changes might not effect you or me, but those changes are important for bringing new players to the game, and keeping them, and that's what EQ2 really needs unless you just want the game to die out and never repopulate.

So I'm curious: how does degrading the graphics in an industry that feeds on constant improvement attract new players?

How does degraded graphics keep existing players, especially since it seems clear the majority dislike them?

The other changes: no show stoppers.  The SC button is stupid and so is F2P, but the graphics are part of the game's applear and immersion.  The spell effects of EQ2 have always been a major attraction.

The graphics are a huge step backward: simpler, harder to tell apart, smaller, shorter, buggy, and inconsistent.  I don't see how that makes the game more attractive to old or new players.  New players have seen better in other games, old players saw better in this one before GU57.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:10 PM   #78
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Carthrax wrote:

EQ2 has become purely a social experiment.  An experiment in which a company completely ignores, degrades, and abandons it's paying customers, and see how long the customers will take it.. 

 Every single thing they've done has been in DIRECT contradiction of the current player base

Honestly, the gaming industry is just doing what pharma did the last decade or so... Price controls on medication (lack of lucrative profit) in other geographical areas (europe, etc.) led them to jack up medicine in the US to "fund" R/D developments worldwide.   

My take is that F2P is going to "fund R/D" for EQ2 that would otherwise put this game on Vangaurd style life support 2-3 years from now if they don't act while they still can.

Rift, Copernicus, OR, etc. are coming out and they're being prudent as existing subs will turnover faster.

Those games will eventually bite many wow players who've been abused and won't have to take it from Blizzard anymore (weakly held subs) while unfortunately increasing the EQ2 attrition rate (strongly held subs) so if they did not take the game the way they're going we'd all be whining like the Vangauards are now a few years from now.

Although I'm certain many surviving Reds will pop the cork when Wow dribbles below 1 x 10^6 subs worldwide and they can tell the SNE suits problems are industry wide it will be little comfort if EQ2 is suffering vanguard style...

Although I must admit F2P isn't going to have them making 20 new server clusters on heavy load like they think (hope) they will... The corporate structure is broken and no one is willing to say the emperor has no clothes... 

When you read college grads can't get entry level jobs (25%+ under/unemployment for under 30 club in US) = time but no $ for subs...  They're trying to get blood from a turnip...  Maybe the asian market will work out for them, we'll have to wait and see...

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #79
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[email protected] wrote

Hopefully they will see that we need a bone thrown to us too - but before we complain too much about changes we have to realize that something needs to be done because we do not have enough new subs coming in...

I  hear this all the time, no new subs.

However, since I came back to EQ2 almst a year ago, the population has steadily increased.

The game seems to be doing very well, and as far as making money goes: it looks like Sony is traveling fast to a battlefield where the fight is already over and the victor went home already.  They survive precisely because they were not in that fight and probably should stay out of it.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:16 PM   #80
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[email protected] wrote:

The trouble here is that they may be more than happy to *hear* our "constructive" feedback, but they've proven an unwillingness to actually listen to what we're saying or act on the feedback that they do get.

The feedback on certain aspects of this update such as the updated spells has been overwhelmingly negative, at least from what I can gather.  If they were listening rather than just hearing, they'd have done something about that rather than just implementing it as it is and essentially relaying the message that we just need to deal with it. 

We were told that certain class defining spells would retain their old effects... didn't happen, at least not for Shadowknights.  We were told Demonstration of Faith "duck and cover" would be fixed.  It was not.

What SOE as a whole seems unable or unwilling to understand is that "constructive" feedback can be *negative*.  If someone's stepping on my foot, and asks for constructive feedback on how they're doing, telling them to knock it off is a perfectly valid complaint.  But using that analogy, it's as if Sony just wants to hear if they should change into different shoes.

Presenting us with something that we almost unanimously dislike, then disregarding our negative feedback as "non-constructive" which if not outright said, was most definitely heavily implied shows not only a lack of regard for your paying customers, but a complete disconnect from the basic principles of software development.  You do not simply release unwanted content and then expect your users to deal with it, at least not if you intend to keep them as your users.

You can say "they want to hear your feedback" until you're blue in the face, but at this point, SOE has lost my faith, and it would appear, that of the community in general.  Actions speak louder than words.  It may be cliche, but in this instance, actually acting on our feedback is going to go a lot further towards earning back our loyalty than simply telling us "This is what we're going to do, now tell us what you hate least about this update".

This is a very eloquent description of how I view SOE's 'Communication'..... Shame SOE's european update process is as friendly and punctual.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:17 PM   #81
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I'd love to comment - but the Euro/UK Servers are down, have been down for several hours, and are due to come back on now at Midnight UK/01:00 Central Europe time.  Oddly enough, I won't be staying up specially for this - given that track record in getting our Servers up on time has, in my experience  (2 accounts, both since the start) been pretty poor.

It is clear that pay-per-month is not where the SoE effort is aimed; just be grateful that they haven't canned it completely.

I always thought it would take a lot to shift me from this game - but the way things are going, I'll be going as well.  There's only so many times you can raid Toxx, or level up a new Toon, I'm afraid.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:17 PM   #82
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[email protected] wrote:

The trouble here is that they may be more than happy to *hear* our "constructive" feedback, but they've proven an unwillingness to actually listen to what we're saying or act on the feedback that they do get.

I invite you to take a closer look at some of these examples of how devs listen to player feedback:

There are plenty more but I'm afraid I haven't the time to grab them all right now. Lots of posts to check on. SMILEY

Also new opportunities to leave feedback:

My point being, no, they can't change everything that a player requests, because for everything that some players dislike, there are others who like or don't care about that thing. But they listen, they evaluate and sometimes they change things, sometimes they don't or can't. It's not fair to say that they have "proven an unwillingness" when they have acted on many feedback items, sometimes instantly, and sometimes they are added to the queue.

But as always, please continue to leave that feedback. The more constructive it is, the better it's understood and the better chance it has of being put into game if the team agrees.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:19 PM   #83
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callahan44 wrote:

This GU is just pitiful!

Changes to Pally spell effects/anims are terrible... let alone all the other garbage changes/nerfs.

If I wasn't so bored, I'd /ragequit.

Yes, really.

Exactly who thought it was a good idea for the paladin ward to look like one of two things:

a) squatting to relieve themselves OR

b) cowering in fear

Neither is something I want to cast and I can't imagine an honest person looking at that animation and thinking: hey that looks like a paladin bracing himself for battle.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:28 PM   #84
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Carthrax wrote:

EQ2 has become purely a social experiment.  An experiment in which a company completely ignores, degrades, and abandons it's paying customers, and see how long the customers will take it.. 

That's how I personally see SoE right now, because nothing they have done in the past 3-6 months shows any different.  Every single thing they've done has been in DIRECT contradiction of the current player base.  There has been no positives(I guess Underfoot Depths is as close to positive as it gets).. 

My sub runs out in September, and I will not be renewing.  The level of service that is being provided for my 15 a month sub, and 50 a year xpac isn't enough...  The insulting customer service, being treated like a 2 year old, and lack of basic business ethics, makes me sick to my stomach knowing that I'm funding your salarys and yet you treat your player base and I with this crap.

Good ridance SoE..

I couldn't agree with you more ... It seems as though SoE is no longer interested in it's customers wishes, but about fufulling their own agenda even though it might drive a lot of players away. I've been going back and fourth with customer service and devs for a number of issues I've been having with this game and the way they do it for months ... and they just don't give a flying sh*t as to whether or not I stop playing and paying.

I mean, where do the devs get the ideas that we need the interface re-vamped ... who was complaining about it being bad ... new people? It took me like 2 days to find ProfitUI and interface that and start using it instead ... which is what most players do (or another interface) and it was working perfectly fine ...

It's funny, someone else said "these devs probably come into work everyday thinking they did a good job" ... do they poll these changes and ask "would you like this to be done?" why do they have to make every change mandatory to the users ... like this one ... I had to update to login ... most of the time, I will skip the updates until it tells me I have a client version mis-match.

I'm just getting tired of SoE's unwillingness to listen to it's players. At least with the old MMO's I've played in the past, the changes were for the better for the player.

SoE = Epic Failure

And what's worse ... Sony condones this, it's making me think twice about ALL sony products "If sony was stupid enough to do this ... why wouldn't they do something utterly stupid here too" ... might be the time to start only using sony when I have no other choice, instead of using it as a default option.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:29 PM   #85
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Gaige wrote:

Andok wrote:

Very true, but the handful of posters here do not represent the entire community.

Oh I dunno, when you read through these threads and see post after post from people saying "I normally don't post here but..." and then following it up with I hate "the UI, the new spell animations, this crappy GU"...

Just saying~

So you're suggesting that the posters in these threads are a representative sample?  Believe what you like, but the truth will be revealed to you when the percentage of "I quit" posts on threads like these does not carry over to all subscriptions.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:35 PM   #86
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Four hours of down time to do cosmetic changes?  What’s with the HUGE across the screen experience bar? As a past player of WoW this new UI has a lot of similarities to that game. Also, what’s with the “item prevue” button for the Marketplace in the lower right corner?  I do not use the MP and I don’t need that icon taking up space on my UI sending sublimal messages to trade real cash for unreal toys. I was actually hoping for some changes to the game that needed fixing. Like the suggestions we gave at Fan Faire 2010.  How about recipe names being consistent with rush orders: or how about dropped and crafted gear having primary stats on them that actually can be of value {since you decided to change a lot of the classes). What about fixing Shadowknight’s self-only spell “Siphon Strength”. You know the one that takes strength and intelligence (which does absolutely nothing for the SK) from a target to give back to the SK, how lame is that?  I do not like the new spell looks, period.  I can’t see what target is being affected with my damages and when I summon a pet on my Mystic I get these little “wispy” lights over my head. I had to do the spell twice to see if it was the right one. On the second time I noticed this very tiny and hard to see white wolf between my legs, which is only visible for a few seconds. To sum this up, I haven’t seen anything that I like about the changes.  

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:37 PM   #87
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m0n3kyb0y18 wrote:

And what's worse ... Sony condones this, it's making me think twice about ALL sony products "If sony was stupid enough to do this ... why wouldn't they do something utterly stupid here too" ... might be the time to start only using sony when I have no other choice, instead of using it as a default option.

Yup, I pretty much have started boycotting all Sony products..  I'm moving in a month and there will not be a single Sony product in my new place....  I'm even throwing away my PS2..

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:37 PM   #88
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-1

IMO, OP has a very shortsighted view of things. EQ2 has been dying a slow death for a long time. The reality is that almost everyone capable and motivated enough to figure out the cluster**** UI is already playing. Without new players server population will continue to dwindle until the game becomes a complete ghost-town like so many before it.

Some of you really need to take a step back and think about the direction the game has been heading, and for how long it might be able to continue in that direction. How anyone can argue SOE made the wrong choice is beyond me. Sure, it came at the cost of new content for this update. However, content focused updates, especially top tier content, just maintain the status quo - a dying game with no prospect for future success. Of course new content is important as well but, for now, getting the game to a point where the average person doesn't collide with its walls of obtusity like insects with a windshield is more important.

Changes in this update like the quest RoI's, clearly written and accurate spell descriptions, auto-replacing ability upgrades, linked travel, the two tutorial windows, ability and quest improvements at low/mid levels, an improved mini map, the combined character screen, and an overall cleaner UI will help to ensure that new players find the game far less confusing and frustrating. The importance of not only attracting new players but getting them to stay cannot be overstated. This update attempts to accomplish that, so in my eyes it is a good update.

Kudos to SOE for trying to stop the bleeding. I, for one, hope it's not too late.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:38 PM   #89
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Amnerys wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The trouble here is that they may be more than happy to *hear* our "constructive" feedback, but they've proven an unwillingness to actually listen to what we're saying or act on the feedback that they do get.

I invite you to take a closer look at some of these examples of how devs listen to player feedback:

There are plenty more but I'm afraid I haven't the time to grab them all right now. Lots of posts to check on.

Also new opportunities to leave feedback:

My point being, no, they can't change everything that a player requests, because for everything that some players dislike, there are others who like or don't care about that thing. But they listen, they evaluate and sometimes they change things, sometimes they don't or can't. It's not fair to say that they have "proven an unwillingness" when they have acted on many feedback items, sometimes instantly, and sometimes they are added to the queue.

But as always, please continue to leave that feedback. The more constructive it is, the better it's understood and the better chance it has of being put into game if the team agrees.

No offense Amnerys, but I clicked on the links provided out of curiousity just to see how much listening was done.  Nothing in regards to what people are screaming the loudest about was touched.  Some changes were made to very minor things not an effort to address the major concerns of the community on the whole.

The spell/combat arts have not had the class defining spells restored to their former glory as an FYI. 

I've been playing this game for 6 years, sad to admit, but there are people that play this game with 1 year plus of actual time in game.  We are plenty aware of what's happening, and many of us that play this game are very informed professional individuals.

I said in a previous post, I know you are a business so I can't blame you for wanted to bleed us dry, but I can't help the fact that it makes me a sad panda.  It's hard to see something that you loved and dedicated a lot of time to get destroyed before your very eyes.  It's like watching a family member with a drug addiction, only the family member is SOE and money is the drug.

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Old 08-18-2010, 06:41 PM   #90
Carthr

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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

-1

IMO, OP has a very shortsighted view of things. EQ2 has been dying a slow death for a long time. The reality is that almost everyone capable and motivated enough to figure out the cluster**** UI is already playing. Without new players server population will continue to dwindle until the game becomes a complete ghost-town like so many before it.

Some of you really need to take a step back and think about the direction the game has been heading, and for how long it might be able to continue in that direction. How anyone can argue SOE made the wrong choice is beyond me. Sure, it came at the cost of new content for this update. However, content focused updates, especially top tier content, just maintain the status quo - a dying game with no prospect for future success. Of course new content is important as well but, for now, getting the game to a point where the average person doesn't collide with its walls of obtusity like insects with a windshield is more important.

Changes in this update like the quest RoI's, clearly written and accurate spell descriptions, auto-replacing ability upgrades, linked travel, the two tutorial windows, ability and quest improvements at low/mid levels, an improved mini map, the combined character screen, and an overall cleaner UI will help to ensure that new players find the game far less confusing and frustrating. The importance of not only attracting new players but getting them to stay cannot be overstated. This update attempts to accomplish that, so in my eyes it is a good update.

Kudos to SOE for trying to stop the bleeding. I, for one, hope it's not too late.

Nobody would have a problem with this updates being in a hot fix, but not a quarterly update..  And they've sealed the fate of live servers with EQ2X...  That's what this update was for.... Not for live.

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