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Old 12-15-2009, 03:16 PM   #31
Morghus

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It isnt just Con level anymore though, the devs have seen fit to give all higher end Epics at some point the ability to 'dodge' which is an uncontested avoid check that cannot be beaten with strike-through.

They also seem to have an immense penchant for having raid mobs that are brawlers which further increases the miss rate, combined with giving them shield block as well as an entirely seperate avoid check. Myself as a mage on the other hand only need to contend with the resist check or in rare cases reflect.

Mage gear may have more overall impact on a mage's ability, but that is due to there being no actual form of alternative dps for a mage I assume. Mages have no auto-attack after all, and melee classes can gain benefit from more effects overall as there is around half as much decent mage gear as there is melee oriented gear.

That is not to say that the various damage shield reactives do not impact mages either, and in some cases impact them more. If a mage for example already had a very large DoT ticking some damage shields cause the remaining ticks to all do 2 damage unless cured right away.

Mages overall have very few real choices in so far as upgrading gear goes, while melee based classes have double attack, accuracy, possibly flurry in the future, and procs that go off of auto-attack or combat art usage. Crit bonus also applies to every auto-attack as well.

The only possible issue I see with increasing melee hit-rate lies in dps adjustment. As it is right now, even with the incredibly bad hit-rates and other issues a melee class with a skilled and equipped player behind it can still put out very respectable numbers but not without serious effort.

Either way, the fact this issue exists is likely because those in charge simply either A, think melee classes deal enough dps as is, B they are too lazy to make sweeping changes to the melee and ranged classes at the moment, C really have no clue how frustrating the melee hit-rate really is.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:21 PM   #32
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t.j. wrote:

As a raiding Wizard, all I can say is [Removed for Content].  Im battleing constantly to beat the Assasin on the parse. We are normally #1 and #2, throw in the Swash who is #3. Any one of us on any given fight can take the #1 spot. If you sir, as an Assasin are being beat out by all the casters, well then you need to look at yourself and how you are playing your toon, not request that the squishies get nerfed.

PS can i have your gear, got a baby Ogre assasin who need new toys.

You obviously have your own issues, maybe your stuck trying to kill Nexona. I am always between 10-16k with an occasional spike to 22+, I see casters consistantly at 13-20k+ with occasional spikes of over 40k. Heed your own advice pal. Oh, by the way, I dont get beat by casters all the time, But the top 5 are always myself and the rest casters and ocasionally our ranger. Has nothing to do with the way I play, it is more of a gear and mecanical issue as Naggash has pointed out. Try reading the entire post before you speak retardesse.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:29 PM   #33
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I'm sure for all you lower end gamers, you are quite correct and scouts out parse you all the time, but that simply is a gear, and learning to play issue.

How ever at the top of the game, mages are untouchable DPS monsters, this is a result of several factors.

ONE : Damage shields, scouts on average trigger Damage shields 4xs as much per fight than a mage will do, me and Koldsteel actively compared parse data over several months, and the disparity is shocking to say the least, scouts on any mob that matters will have a DS trigger every 2.5-3.5 seconds of fight time, mages every 11.5-12.5 secs per fight time, this results in huge damage loss for scouts, compared to mages, also Knockback damage shields.... mages can lock themselves into any handy peice of geometry and not suffer at all, scouts...well its like something from National Enquirer "it was raining chain wearing psychopaths" is the headline.

TWO : AOE's, again on any mob worth a [Removed for Content], they have AOEs that one shot any none fighter or person without 25k+hps, that only have a range of 0-9 mtrs, which you got it right, doesnt affect mages, any where near as punitively as it does scouts, who can harvest with there hands twice the distance they can hit something with a 3foot sword on the end of their arm =/.

THREE : Gear, Mages have massively more access to better gear than scouts do, Mage gear also affects ALL of there primary damage, ie +base damage affects all your spells which is usually 80% of your damage out put, scouts get + ca damage, which frankly for me as rogue is only 40% or so of my Damage out put, reuse speed, mages can nearly cap this, scouts at most can get 5%! amazing i know, Cast speed, again mages can cap this, scouts, lucky to even see 40%, need i continue?

FOUR : Mob Level, i keep seeing mages crying over resists? lol what a joke, again on any mob worth a [Removed for Content], mages sit at 100% hit rate, any mob over level 85 sees a huge and i mean huge degrading of hit ratio for scouts and fighters, yellow con for melee is around 85%-95% hit rate, orange drops that all the way down to 55-65%, and that is 40-45% of my dps output, dont even get me started on super brawler mobs.

FIVE : Resists vrs Miss's, Mages get to wait 5-10secs tops to try again on a resist, yeah your 10 min refresh ability that deals huge damage you can go again in a few seconds if it miss's, oh wait..sorry no you cant, not if your a scout, its gone sorry, better luck next time.

So frankly you mages that are crying you cant compete, you need step up some, because at the top end there is huge imbalances between melee damage and spell damage, which you arent going to see till you buck up and get better.

The promised land is there for you mages if you can but raise yourselves up to the nirvana waiting for you /wink

At last, a person who gets the issue. Well said my friend. These people that are saying they are having trouble beating the Assassins, um, really?? oO I have seen summoners do 53k on single target trash in Palace of the ancient one. And I see most casters, in a certain guild anyway (non-avatar guild), hitting 20k on a regular basis. The caster gear is far superior to what they have doled out to the scouts. Casters are super OP at the high end as this person has stated. It is what it is, if you dont understand that get back to raiding Emerald Halls. And if you cant beat an Assassin at the high end of the game, well you just suck. I struggle to keep up with casters and I raid end game content even contesteds. Thank you for your sage like wisdom on this issue Naggash, at least I am not alone.

Seriously? Parse proof please? Summoners literally can not do 53k dps. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. Our highest nuke is our TSO Deagro and our Master spell strike, hitting for about 5kish if it hits the high end with a crit. Factoring in our pet, if we could consistently cast those two spells with blazing avatar, plane shift, and vestment up, maybe with TC, Jesters and ungodly amounts of crit gear spamming Crystal Blast, i assume we could hit 20-30k, but there is a damage limit to the amount of spells casted per second for a summoner to hit, and 53k is too high. But then those two said spells have 2 minute recasts and i assume with 100% base spell our Crystal Blast might run at ... like 3k? so if we consistently run our cycle of spell, crystal blast, spell there is no potential to hit that kind of dps. Perhaps if the ENTIRE raid was pushing 20-30k each, we might run at 53k, but thats a fluke of dps parse relativity to mob death time.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:35 PM   #34
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33k sorry, it has been corrected, got heated and my sausage fingers didnt help. Thanks for pointing that out. I have no parses to show but anybody who raids at the highest level of the game knows what I say is true. At the top of the game casters rule the roost, OP OP OP!

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:43 PM   #35
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WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:46 PM   #36
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Morghus wrote:

It isnt just Con level anymore though, the devs have seen fit to give all higher end Epics at some point the ability to 'dodge' which is an uncontested avoid check that cannot be beaten with strike-through.

They also seem to have an immense penchant for having raid mobs that are brawlers which further increases the miss rate, combined with giving them shield block as well as an entirely seperate avoid check. Myself as a mage on the other hand only need to contend with the resist check or in rare cases reflect.

Mage gear may have more overall impact on a mage's ability, but that is due to there being no actual form of alternative dps for a mage I assume. Mages have no auto-attack after all, and melee classes can gain benefit from more effects overall as there is around half as much decent mage gear as there is melee oriented gear.

That is not to say that the various damage shield reactives do not impact mages either, and in some cases impact them more. If a mage for example already had a very large DoT ticking some damage shields cause the remaining ticks to all do 2 damage unless cured right away.

Mages overall have very few real choices in so far as upgrading gear goes, while melee based classes have double attack, accuracy, possibly flurry in the future, and procs that go off of auto-attack or combat art usage. Crit bonus also applies to every auto-attack as well.

The only possible issue I see with increasing melee hit-rate lies in dps adjustment. As it is right now, even with the incredibly bad hit-rates and other issues a melee class with a skilled and equipped player behind it can still put out very respectable numbers but not without serious effort.

Either way, the fact this issue exists is likely because those in charge simply either A, think melee classes deal enough dps as is, B they are too lazy to make sweeping changes to the melee and ranged classes at the moment, C really have no clue how frustrating the melee hit-rate really is.

Yes i agree the dodge, uncontested avoid are the killers, but why dont we have super resistant boss mobs? you know there are a plethora of mobs atm where it really pays to have good solid mage dps, and scouts have to suck it up and try their best, yet there is no reversal.

Honestly auto attack doesnt need bumping much at all, it just should never be dropping below 70% period.

what i want above all things to change is damage shields and the way they trigger, they are the bane of my eq2 enjoyment, one Munzok fight i had 255 triggers of his damage shield on me, thats 255 times sat with a daze = no auto, no hostile = no ca's, it is beyond a joke atm. i never moan or yell at my healers for cures (when raiding on my Brigand), but i am totally and utterly dependent upon them to even be able to play my class top end, so now its not only control effects removing control of my avatar from me, i have the added bonus of the healers controling roughly 50% of a fight, whether i can play or not.

That is the real flaw with the current high end raiding, they fix that and i can live with the rest, its literally that bad.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:48 PM   #37
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Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:54 PM   #38
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[email protected] wrote:

Yes i agree the dodge, uncontested avoid are the killers, but why dont we have super resistant boss mobs? you know there are a plethora of mobs atm where it really pays to have good solid mage dps, and scouts have to suck it up and try their best, yet there is no reversal.

Honestly auto attack doesnt need bumping much at all, it just should never be dropping below 70% period.

what i want above all things to change is damage shields and the way they trigger, they are the bane of my eq2 enjoyment, one Munzok fight i had 255 triggers of his damage shield on me, thats 255 times sat with a daze = no auto, no hostile = no ca's, it is beyond a joke atm. i never moan or yell at my healers for cures (when raiding on my Brigand), but i am totally and utterly dependent upon them to even be able to play my class top end, so now its not only control effects removing control of my avatar from me, i have the added bonus of the healers controling roughly 50% of a fight, whether i can play or not.

That is the real flaw with the current high end raiding, they fix that and i can live with the rest, its literally that bad.

The closest thing to a super resistant boss mobs from what I have experienced are all the mobs who wipe their detrimentals. When fighting those unless debuffs are immediately re-applied by the raid I tend to have a hard time, and my spells will almost never land at their top end of damage on those fights.

The uncontested avoid on mobs just needs to end, period. It isnt any fun on heroic mobs and even less fun on epics. It is literally a way of saying 'haha.....550+ crushing slashing or piercing?...ignored!'.

As for the damage shields, I think a way to fix it would be if aside from applying their effect they also applied some kind of immunity to being hit by the same damage shield again for a period of time. Epics have immunity timers for CC effects, why shouldn't players considering how prolific and ridiculous some of the damage shields are (getting hit by 3 different effects from Anashti comes to mind).

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:57 PM   #39
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[email protected] wrote:

wow, can you be any more envious and bitter and judgemental?

It is nothing to do with me, and everything to do with the game being highly frustraiting at the top end for melee class compared to mages, i love nothing more than not being able to contribute as much as a caster does because of poorly thought out mechanics, or broken ones.

I keep seeing you post Atan that guards cant compete with SK, and guards need boosting, sk need nerfing, is that the mememe culture you talk about? or a geniune issue you would like to see fixed for the health of the game and player enjoyment?

I'm neither envious or bitter.  Of the top WW dpsers I know and talk to casually, Its all about mememe, my parse, how I compair with other classes, rarely about how I rank myself WW.  I'm not saying its not something they concern themselves with, but all they whine or boast about is vs other classes.

And yes, they care more about denying others loot than getting it themselves, certainly at this point in an expansion.

I've not said guards can't compete, I've posted in threads talking about heroic guards being laughable vs heroic sk's.  I've posted that GS needs nerfing by design, and it seems people at SoE agreed on that one.

Anything I post is what I feel is better for the game overall, as well, I play almost every class in nearly every content style at one time or another.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:00 PM   #40
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[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

First, the OP never declared this was a high end issue only so what is your point?

Second, while no killing avatars I do raid at a significant level, I guess your point is only people who are in the number one guild on each server should post here? Nice false appeal to authority, typical logical fallacy when a person has a weak argument.

Third, just put up the parses and prove you point, I or anyone else sure doesn't need to be the number one player and guild to see what parses have to say

Fourth,  you don't know what level I raid at or have raided at, but as I am not as dismissive of you I don't mind stating I am not killing the end mobs, doesn't change what I know. I pull 14k raidwides on a good night and 12 average for Palace, not great but not bad either. I do know that isn't really the measure but instead the percentage is.

 I pull 10 to 13 % raidwide which translates to some very significant DPS in a top end guild, the OP did not bound this argument to only the top .5% of the players associated with a 1% high end guild and you have no data supporting your arrogance. So your postion I have no right to post here is unfounded and pointless which says more about you and how understand things.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:06 PM   #41
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Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

First, the OP never declared this was a high end issue only so what is your point?

Second, while no killing avatars I do raid at a significant level, I guess your point is only people who are in the number one guild on each server should post here? Nice false appeal to authority, typical logical fallacy when a person has a weak argument.

Third, just put up the parses and prove you point, I or anyone else sure doesn't need to be the number one player and guild to see what parses have to say

Fourth,  you don't know what level I raid at or have raided at, but as I am not as dismissive of you I don't mind stating I am not killing the end mobs, doesn't change what I know. I pull 14k raidwides on a good night and 12 average for Palace, not great but not bad either. I do know that isn't really the measure but instead the percentage is.

 I pull 10 to 13 % raidwide which translates to some very significant DPS in a top end guild, the OP did not bound this argument to only the top .5% of the players associated with a 1% high end guild and you have no data supporting your arrogance. So your postion I have no right to post here is unfounded and pointless which says more about you and how understand things.

It has nothing to do with you cant post here, it has to do with you have ZERO experiance of what is being discussed and as usual you are going to bog this down in mindless mage nerd rage, just like you always do. my argument is solid, i dont post stupid things thanks, if i actually take the time to post, i make sure i know what im talking about, i dont like looking like an idiot.

We are discussing game mechanics in case you missed it, again mechanics you have little to no experiance with, so please feel free to bog it down and mix it up and generally contribute nothing of worth to the topic, as usual.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:13 PM   #42
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[email protected] wrote: = Easternking

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

Easternking I should have guessed it was you. Odd when there was a REAL balance issue between casters and melee (one which SOE admitted existing) you were arguing then that everything was fine and melee shold be top DPS and there was no problem. I am not inclined to believe someone who always sees an issue to there favor regardless of the facts. You NEVER saw a problem when melee had a real advantage.

Perhaps on the top 1% things do skew significantly, I say again show the parses. I personally doubt it. Show me such parses and I will gladly join the good fight.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:22 PM   #43
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Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote: = Easternking

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

Easternking I should have guessed it was you. Odd when there was a REAL balance issue between casters and melee (one which SOE admitted existing) you were arguing then that everything was fine and melee shold be top DPS and there was no problem. I am not inclined to believe someone who always sees an issue to there favor regardless of the facts. You NEVER saw a problem when melee had a real advantage.

Perhaps on the top 1% things do skew significantly, I say again show the parses. I personally doubt it. Show me such parses and I will gladly join the good fight.

maybe just maybe because at the level i play the game there was never an issue ? i know that may be hard to grasp.

and show you parses of what? hit rates? damage shield ratios? mages dominating a parse on high con mobs? or you want them all?

how about i have and will continue to send it to the people that matter, and not fill this thread with reams and reams of data? thanks, instead of me trying to prove it to you, who doesnt matter anyway, why dont you step it up and start playing at my level and find out for yourself? it works both ways.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:26 PM   #44
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[email protected] wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks casters are ridiculously overpowered. Im just saying, I wish every slot on my Assassin had massive crit, crit bonus, massive +spell damage and some sweet proc to lower reuse timers. And to top it off they are getting bumped again in the expansion and scouts are getting the nerfbat again? Really, what is this game becoming? A bunch of dress wearing sallys wiggling their fingers. This game is going straight down the crapper. If what I am reading and hearing is true about the upcoming expansion I will be quiting this game for good. Period.

Personally I think everyone is overpowered who is not a healer,  let the nerf bat hit everyone!!!!  Aside from laughing at the OP.  When I see on my parse, 1 or 2 people who are fighting each other to be on the top of the parse AND stealing agro,  I let them die,
You will not get healed.  I get a kick out of hearing them complain about the healing then. 
 
So if someone is OP,  they will die, and maybe learn something in the process. cuz when dead your DPS, not so good.
I see more "me me me me me" people then you then you would expect.
 
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:28 PM   #45
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Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote: = Easternking

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

Easternking I should have guessed it was you. Odd when there was a REAL balance issue between casters and melee (one which SOE admitted existing) you were arguing then that everything was fine and melee shold be top DPS and there was no problem. I am not inclined to believe someone who always sees an issue to there favor regardless of the facts. You NEVER saw a problem when melee had a real advantage.

Perhaps on the top 1% things do skew significantly, I say again show the parses. I personally doubt it. Show me such parses and I will gladly join the good fight.

it's not a top 1% issue.. im far from the top 1% and i have to deal with crappy AA hit rates and being stuned/stiffled/target locked  50% + of time on name and even some trash fights.   it's hard to tell a healer they have to basicly target you and heal you and cure you if you're a scout so you can be valuable to a raid. 

  the mage issues after GU 44 where an issue and most scouts agreed it should be delt with.     this is an issue as well and it needs to be delt with.     with casters doing the same or more dmg as scouts AND not having to deal with AOE calls and dmg shilds/stuns/stiffles half as much as range.. why in the heck even bring a melee dps?    

 there is beta right now, the next expansion is being shaped.. please take this into account devs. 

 do NOT nerf casters just fix the inbalance.

 edit.  i don't want more dmg for *easy mode* i just want to be able to NOT be stuned the entire fight and have my dam auto attack(big chunk of my dmg)  hit the mobs

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:30 PM   #46
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33k sorry, it has been corrected, got heated and my sausage fingers didnt help. Thanks for pointing that out. I have no parses to show but anybody who raids at the highest level of the game knows what I say is true. At the top of the game casters rule the roost, OP OP OP!

I think you're full of *edited for content* tbh...  a Conjuror can't parse for *edited for content* on short trash fights.. let alone 33k... that's a fact.

Here's a list of highest recorded ZW palace trash for each class: http://www.eq2flames.com/zones-popu...rse-thread.html... 

It's from June, but the differences shouldn't be that great.. a Conjurors highest trash parse (zw) is 16K...  so yeah.. I think you're talking out of your *edited for content*.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:32 PM   #47
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[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

First, the OP never declared this was a high end issue only so what is your point?

Second, while no killing avatars I do raid at a significant level, I guess your point is only people who are in the number one guild on each server should post here? Nice false appeal to authority, typical logical fallacy when a person has a weak argument.

Third, just put up the parses and prove you point, I or anyone else sure doesn't need to be the number one player and guild to see what parses have to say

Fourth,  you don't know what level I raid at or have raided at, but as I am not as dismissive of you I don't mind stating I am not killing the end mobs, doesn't change what I know. I pull 14k raidwides on a good night and 12 average for Palace, not great but not bad either. I do know that isn't really the measure but instead the percentage is.

 I pull 10 to 13 % raidwide which translates to some very significant DPS in a top end guild, the OP did not bound this argument to only the top .5% of the players associated with a 1% high end guild and you have no data supporting your arrogance. So your postion I have no right to post here is unfounded and pointless which says more about you and how understand things.

It has nothing to do with you cant post here, it has to do with you have ZERO experiance of what is being discussed and as usual you are going to bog this down in mindless mage nerd rage, just like you always do. my argument is solid, i dont post stupid things thanks, if i actually take the time to post, i make sure i know what im talking about, i dont like looking like an idiot.

We are discussing game mechanics in case you missed it, again mechanics you have little to no experiance with, so please feel free to bog it down and mix it up and generally contribute nothing of worth to the topic, as usual.

I would rather Sony not change any game mechanic at all for such a small population in the game. (The top 15% of only the most elitest guilds in the game- what is that maybe 1% of the games population?)  I think on a whole that most raid guilds have both scouts and mages in the top dps slots.  To me thats just how it should be. 

If you want Sony to change the way damage shields work, or knockbacks, or AOE's then this should be a post on game mechanics as a whole.  The title of the thread is that Casters are Overpowered meaning that maybe something should be done to "fix" the mages.  I play a priest so I really am unbiased here but to me it looks like a bunch of assassins and wizards crying about who outparsed them.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:33 PM   #48
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[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Skwor wrote:

WOW, if you think casters are OP you arn't paying attention. Instead of making up stories, show us the parses. Where are the parses with casters doing 2-5k more than assassins? Be sure to include equivalent raid make up and gear, not to mention playstyles.

You won't find them, and unless you can show the data you are making this up from whole cloth. When there was a REAL DPS issue between cloth and scouts players posted parses all day long, along with the gear and raid make up, to prove the point it was this effort that finally brought more balance to the game.

All I see here is someone with a bruised ego and no facts, that goes for several here who have posted in agreement with the post OP and have also FAILED to provide verifiable data.

Melee and Casters are close to be on balance atm, what this post is about is nerfing a class becuase some can't compete otherwise.

Enough with the baseless troll threads deviod of facts and heavy on EMO.

We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling, i have yet to see one, just one high end mage step into this thread and refute anything being said, you know why that is dont you? because they are fully aware of it, and know its all true.

First, the OP never declared this was a high end issue only so what is your point?

Second, while no killing avatars I do raid at a significant level, I guess your point is only people who are in the number one guild on each server should post here? Nice false appeal to authority, typical logical fallacy when a person has a weak argument.

Third, just put up the parses and prove you point, I or anyone else sure doesn't need to be the number one player and guild to see what parses have to say

Fourth,  you don't know what level I raid at or have raided at, but as I am not as dismissive of you I don't mind stating I am not killing the end mobs, doesn't change what I know. I pull 14k raidwides on a good night and 12 average for Palace, not great but not bad either. I do know that isn't really the measure but instead the percentage is.

 I pull 10 to 13 % raidwide which translates to some very significant DPS in a top end guild, the OP did not bound this argument to only the top .5% of the players associated with a 1% high end guild and you have no data supporting your arrogance. So your postion I have no right to post here is unfounded and pointless which says more about you and how understand things.

It has nothing to do with you cant post here, it has to do with you have ZERO experiance of what is being discussed and as usual you are going to bog this down in mindless mage nerd rage, just like you always do. my argument is solid, i dont post stupid things thanks, if i actually take the time to post, i make sure i know what im talking about, i dont like looking like an idiot.

We are discussing game mechanics in case you missed it, again mechanics you have little to no experiance with, so please feel free to bog it down and mix it up and generally contribute nothing of worth to the topic, as usual.

As usual you won't stay on point to respond. You said "We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling" So I pointed out the thread was not bounded like that. Your response was pretty clear... don't post since you don't know anything about high end to which I clearly showed that was not how the thread was opened, YOU placed that condition upon it along with the implied concept that nio one can understand the issue who doesn't raid high end. Hell a lot of dev's who wite this game don't raid high end yet they somehow manage to understand the issue, your logic fails on that point.

Now you say "you have ZERO experiance of what is being discussed" and then say "again mechanics you have little to no experiance" You can't seem to even keep a consistent thought between paragraphs. Let me help you with my expereince. I play nearly every night have 2 80/80/400 tinker/muter T4 raid gear toons. As far as TOP END I am not now but have been in the past. I am definitly not new to that part of the game as I have been in and out of that level of play for the last 10 years starting in EQ1. It is HUBRIS to assume only those who currently play the top 1% have any valid opinion on the issue.

Show me the parse and I will believe, Have SOE state as much and I am inclined to believe. The parses won the day when they fixed casters after the hit rate fiasco and it can save the day for this issue if one exists.

Simply stating an opinion as fact does not prove anything. Least of all to be used to modify game mechanics

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:33 PM   #49
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Davngr1 wrote:

Casters dont need to be nerfed, they need to fix the mechanic imbalances

I'm going to quote this, i dont want mages nerfing, i dont have an issue with mages doing what they do, i have an issue with the glaringly defucnt mechanics at the top end of the game, that overly penalise scouts.

That is why i posted in this thread, and will continue to do so, hopefully this will calm Skwor and co down, i mean re read what i posted and please point out to me anywhere i claimed mages need nerfing?  good luck finding it.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:37 PM   #50
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Skwor wrote:

As usual you won't stay on point to respond. You said "We all know you dont play at the level being discussed here, so why dont you save us all the effort and bother and just stop with the trolling" So I pointed out the thread was not bounded like that. Your response was pretty clear... don't post since you don't know anything about high end to which I clearly showed that was not how the thread was opened, YOU placed that condition upon it along with the implied concept that nio one can understand the issue who doesn't raid high end. Hell a lot of dev's who wite this game don't raid high end yet they somehow manage to understand the issue, your logic fails on that point.

Now you say "you have ZERO experiance of what is being discussed" and then say "again mechanics you have little to no experiance" You can't seem to even keep a consistent thought between paragraphs. Let me help you with my expereince. I play nearly every night have 2 80/80/400 tinker/muter T4 raid gear toons. As far as TOP END I am not now but have been in the past. I am definitly not new to that part of the game as I have been in and out of that level of play for the last 10 years starting in EQ1. It is HUBRIS to assume only those who currently play the top 1% have any valid opinion on the issue.

Show me the parse and I will believe, Have SOE state as much and I am inclined to believe. The parses won the day when they fixed casters after the hit rate fiasco and it can save the day for this issue if one exists.

Simply stating an opinion as fact does not prove anything. Least of all to be used to modify game mechanics

if you are struggling to keep up with the topic go read my first post in this thread.

so because you dont experiance what is being discussed, dont see it, dont know about it, dont have to deal with it, its hubris saying what you post is invalid? wow really? nice try.

as i already said, the info is passed along to the relevant devs, i only posted here because i felt that a lot of the casusls couldnt grasp or understand what the OP was inellegantly trying to say, i clarified it for him.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:37 PM   #51
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[email protected] wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Casters dont need to be nerfed, they need to fix the mechanic imbalances

I'm going to quote this, i dont want mages nerfing, i dont have an issue with mages doing what they do, i have an issue with the glaringly defucnt mechanics at the top end of the game, that overly penalise scouts.

That is why i posted in this thread, and will continue to do so, hopefully this will calm Skwor and co down, i mean re read what i posted and please point out to me anywhere i claimed mages need nerfing?  good luck finding it.

The title of the thread says "Caster's are OP"  ....  I mean serously

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:39 PM   #52
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

33k sorry, it has been corrected, got heated and my sausage fingers didnt help. Thanks for pointing that out. I have no parses to show but anybody who raids at the highest level of the game knows what I say is true. At the top of the game casters rule the roost, OP OP OP!

I think you're full of crap tbh...  a Conjuror can't parse for  on short trash fights.. let alone 33k... that's a fact.

Here's a list of highest recorded ZW palace trash for each class: http://www.eq2flames.com/zones-popu...rse-thread.html... 

It's from June, but the differences shouldn't be that great.. a Conjurors highest trash parse (zw) is 16K...  so yeah.. I think you're talking out of your .

You know what is funny about that parse post, it shows the Assassin as being the highest parse of ALL, beating casters by an easy 2 to 4 k DPS. Kind of throws cold water on the whole idea that casters are op at least when compared to assassins. Those are posts from the ACTUAL high end players.

SO I say again, show me the parses and I will believe!

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:41 PM   #53
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[email protected] wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Casters dont need to be nerfed, they need to fix the mechanic imbalances

I'm going to quote this, i dont want mages nerfing, i dont have an issue with mages doing what they do, i have an issue with the glaringly defucnt mechanics at the top end of the game, that overly penalise scouts.

That is why i posted in this thread, and will continue to do so, hopefully this will calm Skwor and co down, i mean re read what i posted and please point out to me anywhere i claimed mages need nerfing?  good luck finding it.

Good point and calmed down I would definitly not argue with this position and what I know of the issue (which is arguably less then what you know) I would agree.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:42 PM   #54
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[email protected] wrote:

I would rather Sony not change any game mechanic at all for such a small population in the game. (The top 15% of only the most elitest guilds in the game- what is that maybe 1% of the games population?)  I think on a whole that most raid guilds have both scouts and mages in the top dps slots.  To me thats just how it should be. 

If you want Sony to change the way damage shields work, or knockbacks, or AOE's then this should be a post on game mechanics as a whole.  The title of the thread is that Casters are Overpowered meaning that maybe something should be done to "fix" the mages.  I play a priest so I really am unbiased here but to me it looks like a bunch of assassins and wizards crying about who outparsed them.

Ahh so when there is glaring game destroying issues with crafting, or soloing, or heroic play, they should be ignored and not fixed because only a % of the game have to deal with it? that is awesome logic.

Games like this raid content is always balanced top down, you should be well aware of this if you are a raider like you claim.

solo and heroic play is designed and balanced around the lowest common denominator, as it should be as more people access that content. you dont hear me or the others complaing do you that its boring and no challenge to me and i can do it with my eyes closed? no you dont, i accept that people enjoy that content the way it is.

and seeing as we are discussing the very end game raid content how is it invalid for the people accessing that content to want it fixing? that is moronic in the extreme.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:46 PM   #55
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I would rather Sony not change any game mechanic at all for such a small population in the game. (The top 15% of only the most elitest guilds in the game- what is that maybe 1% of the games population?)  I think on a whole that most raid guilds have both scouts and mages in the top dps slots.  To me thats just how it should be. 

If you want Sony to change the way damage shields work, or knockbacks, or AOE's then this should be a post on game mechanics as a whole.  The title of the thread is that Casters are Overpowered meaning that maybe something should be done to "fix" the mages.  I play a priest so I really am unbiased here but to me it looks like a bunch of assassins and wizards crying about who outparsed them.

Ahh so when there is glaring game destroying issues with crafting, or soloing, or heroic play, they should be ignored and not fixed because only a % of the game have to deal with it? that is awesome logic.

Games like this raid content is always balanced top down, you should be well aware of this if you are a raider like you claim.

solo and heroic play is designed and balanced around the lowest common denominator, as it should be as more people access that content. you dont hear me or the others complaing do you that its boring and no challenge to me and i can do it with my eyes closed? no you dont, i accept that people enjoy that content the way it is.

and seeing as we are discussing the very end game raid content how is it invalid for the people accessing that content to want it fixing? that is moronic in the extreme.

WE are not discussing the very end game raid content. YOU are discussing it.  Re-read the OP and tell me exactly how this is a intelligent objective post?  It is an inflamatory post that most certainly does not restrict this thread to "end game only".  If you want to discuss messed up game mechanics start another thread not entitled "Casters are OP"

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:53 PM   #56
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[email protected] wrote:

WE are not discussing the very end game raid content. YOU are discussing it.  Re-read the OP and tell me exactly how this is a intelligent objective post?  It is an inflamatory post that most certainly does not restrict this thread to "end game only".  If you want to discuss messed up game mechanics start another thread not entitled "Casters are OP"

just in case you missed it :

As i already said, the info is passed along to the relevant devs, i only posted here because i felt that a lot of the casusls couldnt grasp or understand what the OP was inellegantly trying to say, i clarified it for him.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:56 PM   #57
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

WE are not discussing the very end game raid content. YOU are discussing it.  Re-read the OP and tell me exactly how this is a intelligent objective post?  It is an inflamatory post that most certainly does not restrict this thread to "end game only".  If you want to discuss messed up game mechanics start another thread not entitled "Casters are OP"

just in case you missed it :

As i already said, the info is passed along to the relevant devs, i only posted here because i felt that a lot of the casusls couldnt grasp or understand what the OP was inellegantly trying to say, i clarified it for him.

Just in case you missed it. "If you want to discuss messed up game mechanics start another thread not entitled "Casters are OP"

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:57 PM   #58
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Yes, there is a disparity between end game caster and melee classes.

Does that break the game and/or necesitate a redesign?  Hardly.

Unless you can somehow proove to me the content is unplayable with a balanced melee/caster raid, I don't buy that its something that 'zomg must change now'.

Keep in mind with stat consolidation on crit bonus and base modifiers, chances are with the expansion this issue may already be mediated.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:57 PM   #59
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I can't get the last mob in the solo instance of Icy Keep, a big disapointment over last year's frostfell...so not overpowered.

Your really going to quit over this? 

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Old 12-15-2009, 05:03 PM   #60
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

WE are not discussing the very end game raid content. YOU are discussing it.  Re-read the OP and tell me exactly how this is a intelligent objective post?  It is an inflamatory post that most certainly does not restrict this thread to "end game only".  If you want to discuss messed up game mechanics start another thread not entitled "Casters are OP"

just in case you missed it :

As i already said, the info is passed along to the relevant devs, i only posted here because i felt that a lot of the casusls couldnt grasp or understand what the OP was inellegantly trying to say, i clarified it for him.

Just in case you missed it. "If you want to discuss messed up game mechanics start another thread not entitled "Casters are OP"

wow you really are special arent you, this thread is about mechanics and end game raiding, go find the OP stating i clarified his points, MAGES are OP compared to scouts end game in case you cannot grasp it, that is because of the mechanics imbalances.

That makes this thread title pertinent and correct.

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