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Old 12-15-2008, 02:36 PM   #1
CoLD MeTaL

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Took them from 1 to 22, killed named and did non repeatable quests started with 138 AAs and ended with 138 AAs, got nearly 50% of a level.

Yellow con non repeatable quests give less than 2% AA.

supposed to be +300% for that spread, the name ddid give about 3% when i could find one i hadn't already done.

that plain stinks.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:00 PM   #2
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Really? You think that a lvl 80, one-shotting lvl 1-20 names and doing 40 odd quests should be worth 3-4 AA? /boggle
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:04 PM   #3
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MonkeyBobNz wrote:

Really? You think that a lvl 80, one-shotting lvl 1-20 names and doing 40 odd quests should be worth 3-4 AA? /boggle

With a 300% increase for mentoring, yes, yes I do.  This is stupid slow.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:15 PM   #4
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Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:46 PM   #5
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Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Well that explains something.  I wish you could have done something for those of us that already had done 100s of quests before AA were introduced.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:47 PM   #6
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

MonkeyBobNz wrote:

Really? You think that a lvl 80, one-shotting lvl 1-20 names and doing 40 odd quests should be worth 3-4 AA? /boggle

With a 300% increase for mentoring, yes, yes I do.  This is stupid slow.

For real? You really think you should gain 3 to 4 AA's from finishing L20 quests?

I don't know the risk seems far to great for suck a small amount of AA's Those old school mobs hit mentored players too hard. Oh wait I thought you were talking about the epic X4 mobs you can solo when you mentor.

Good God man, mentoring is meant to help out people not be a replacement for killing content of your level.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:50 PM   #7
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Well that explains something.  I wish you could have done something for those of us that already had done 100s of quests before AA were introduced.

There are 4 billion quests in this game.. are you telling me you have done them all?

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:51 PM   #8
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Junaru wrote:

For real? You really think you should gain 3 to 4 AA's from finishing L20 quests?

I don't know the risk seems far to great for suck a small amount of AA's Those old school mobs hit mentored players too hard. Oh wait I thought you were talking about the epic X4 mobs you can solo when you mentor.

Good God man, mentoring is meant to help out people not be a replacement for killing content of your level.

It is called Ever"QUEST", quests should give the most benefit.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:56 PM   #9
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I'm not 80 but I mentored down to 28 and did FG.  I got 2.5AA from a Single FG run.  Granted I've never done FG with this toon, so disco, and kills were all good.  DFC also netted me quite a bit.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:05 PM   #10
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Junaru wrote:

For real? You really think you should gain 3 to 4 AA's from finishing L20 quests?

I don't know the risk seems far to great for suck a small amount of AA's Those old school mobs hit mentored players too hard. Oh wait I thought you were talking about the epic X4 mobs you can solo when you mentor.

Good God man, mentoring is meant to help out people not be a replacement for killing content of your level.

It is called Ever"QUEST", quests should give the most benefit.

I agree but you a MENTORING. I'm not going to talk to you like you don't know what a L80 toon can do to a L20 heroic mob if he mentored. I know you know. With that said do you really think it's fair that you gain that much AA by doing quests which your toon could walk through without losing an ouch of health? My 47 Warlock was helping out a friend and I was single nuking heroic groups of Gnolls in BB. You can't expect someone with that kind of killing force to gain the way amount of AA doing a quest at those levels.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:19 PM   #11
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

There are 4 billion quests in this game.. are you telling me you have done them all?

There is a far cry from 4 Billion, Allakhazam lists 5,395 of which many have been removed or are repeatable.   Of those most will be grey at 80 or worth little to nothing as was the case for me mentored to 20 doing yellow con non repeatables that i had missed. Some to many will be under level 10 and there is no AA.  many are heroic or epic, and no one is doing the peacock raids anymore.    I have done 1033 quests , so even finding non repeatables is difficult at best.  Allakhazam says there are over 250 that are T8, of course getting to 80, I have done well over 300 or more already.  When you remove the heroic and epic ones, that leaves very little.  And with my server population most people are reporting exactly what I am seeing you  lfg for more than 2+ hours which is all the game time i have.  I can't tell you the number of groups I have put together and then had to leave because I used all my game time putting the group together.  There wouldn't be the 300% bonus if it wasn't nearly impossible to get them.  From the dev comment that means that the grey ones are next to useless, since i got 1% for a yellow quest mentored to 20.

Yes, I am very frustrated and very unhappy with this expansion.  RoK led people to believe that you would be able to do some things without grouping.  TSO has virtually no solo content and 200AA seems to be very very unattainable.  Again this is Ever"Quest" not Ever"Grind". As one who can't run 6-7 missions a night, this is ridiculous.  I spend most of one night trying to get a group together to run one mission, and then you get to bricktop and find out you don't have a 'dispeller' for his stoneskin and night is over with no shards.  this is the 1 group raid  expansion and a total waste of my $$$.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:22 PM   #12
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Junaru wrote:

I agree but you a MENTORING. I'm not going to talk to you like you don't know what a L80 toon can do to a L20 heroic mob if he mentored. I know you know. With that said do you really think it's fair that you gain that much AA by doing quests which your toon could walk through without losing an ouch of health? My 47 Warlock was helping out a friend and I was single nuking heroic groups of Gnolls in BB. You can't expect someone with that kind of killing force to gain the way amount of AA doing a quest at those levels.

Could we agree that more than 1% would be appropriate?  Say 3-4%?  Even one shotting, room pulling it takes some time to get random updates.  And you have the time to camp the names with respawns.  It isn't like you walk in, nuke something ding quest done.  You still have to find the thing, and get it to pop or get the random update.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:25 PM   #13
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Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Ilucide,

Could you please comment on your reasoning for this mechanic?

It would seem the bonus system is to encourage level 80 characters to mentor leven 15-50 characters in dungeon grinds.  Given dungeon grinds are the absolute worst way for a level 15-50 character to gain xp and aa, why only reward level 80's with the bonus to grind xp?

I'm failing to see how there is a mutual benefit for both the mentor and mentoree given the curent state of the mechanics.  I would be very interested in your reasoning / insight on this item.

The 300% bonus requires a min level 30 spread, I can't even think of any significant heroic quest arcs sub level 50 to work on as a mixed mentor group...

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:32 PM   #14
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Junaru wrote:

I agree but you a MENTORING. I'm not going to talk to you like you don't know what a L80 toon can do to a L20 heroic mob if he mentored. I know you know. With that said do you really think it's fair that you gain that much AA by doing quests which your toon could walk through without losing an ouch of health? My 47 Warlock was helping out a friend and I was single nuking heroic groups of Gnolls in BB. You can't expect someone with that kind of killing force to gain the way amount of AA doing a quest at those levels.

Could we agree that more than 1% would be appropriate?  Say 3-4%?  Even one shotting, room pulling it takes some time to get random updates.  And you have the time to camp the names with respawns.  It isn't like you walk in, nuke something ding quest done.  You still have to find the thing, and get it to pop or get the random update.

At L20? No. If thise was L50 content then yes I could agree with you. The problem with given that amount of experence at those level is people would abuse it.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:54 PM   #15
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Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Is there some sort of unknown algorithm for when this bonus is applied, and when it is not?  Very frequently, I've mentored one of my wife's characters, (often a mid 40s char mentoring a low 40s char), gotten aa xp for killing a named I had not killed before, and yet not gotten a message about receiving the extra bonus because I was mentoring.

I have yet to find any rhyme or reason behind when I do get credit as a mentor, and when I do not.

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Old 12-16-2008, 03:49 PM   #16
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My orginal creation date is pre yours, I took advantage of the free char moves in 2006.  I am a 62/84 swashbuckler.  I have grouped 80% only in a duo with a berserker, and that is only about 40% of my played time.  I have solo'ed most of my quests gray.  And I did about 500 of those pre patch to make it so you got exp from gray quests.

Pre Halloween stuff, I was working in Lavastorm & Everfrost and am still not finished questing those zones.  I've *done* the Bloodline Chronicles, and most of the old world, but haven't even set foot into DoF, KoS, Eof, RoK, or Mara for quests there.  Splitpaw I bugged out & can not complete, so count that one out.

I can not understand complaining, when I have completed over 200 more quests than you, You have been around the same amount of time as I and you are level 80.  Aa's from quests can not be that hard to get if you actually DO the quests.  Mentored or Solo, Everquest isn't ment to be finished in one month, it is ment to take time.

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Old 12-16-2008, 05:36 PM   #17
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Just for the sake of accuracy, while there is no bonus AA xp for mentoring for quests, there is also no AA xp penalty anymore for completing grey quests.  In other words, if a level 11 quest is worth 10 aaxp at level 11, it is also worth that same 10aaxp to a level 80 character.  The percentage of an AA point that xp will provide will depend upon how many total AA points the level 80 has, not on his character level.  If you already have 150 AAs then completing that level 11 quest most certainly is not going to move your bar much.  But you will get full credit for it, mentored or not.

Bottom line, there is no need to mentor to any level to get full AA credit for a quest, regardless of quest level.  You do, however, need to mentor to get kill credit for named and for adventure xp that converts to AA xp at level 80.  The current bonus applies to mentored kill xp which then converts to a higher number of AAxp, but still at relatively low conversion rates.

And where exactly does the idea come from that a "bonus" is supposed to replace normal methods of gaining experience?  I know personally too many players who were maxed in AAs prior to ToS release that were level capped when AAs were first introduced to buy into the argument that there aren't enough ways to achieve those points.  It's simply been proven by too many players that there are indeed plenty of AA opportunity.

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Old 12-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #18
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IMO, vet players should get bonus AA for mentoring. there just isn't enough content for some vets who completed the majority of their quests to keep progressing their AAs at a semi decent rate. so i see people who rolled alts or took a year break and came back who blew past me in AA while i sit on my thumb.

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Old 12-16-2008, 05:44 PM   #19
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Could we agree that more than 1% would be appropriate?

No, "we" can't.

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Old 12-16-2008, 05:47 PM   #20
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A factor that was missed here is the AA level of the mentoring character.   Now, for example, if the mentored person had say 30 AA's and the mentoring person had 30 AA's and the person being mentored gained 2 AA's, the person mentoring would have gained perhaps 5 or even 6 for the same run.

You might be gaining 300 points for a 100 point AA Gain, but when your applying that to a level 138that requires (just hypothetical number) say 1,000,000 per level, you won't feel that 300% boost.  Much the same as a level 10 character turning in a level 30 collection will see a higher boost than the level 30 (level being AA) turning in the same collection.

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Old 12-17-2008, 07:12 AM   #21
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Junaru wrote:

At L20? No. If thise was L50 content then yes I could agree with you. The problem with given that amount of experence at those level is people would abuse it.

No, they would use it.

Personally I still favor an xp slider to allow people to set their own progress rates. It's been apparent for years that some people would prefer to play at least some of the time with no xp gain at all, while others would like to make a new character and log in at Level 80, max AA.

While it might not be practical to provide that degree of variation, I do think that it should be primarily up to the player to decide their rate of progression in a much more direct way than is currently the case.

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Old 12-17-2008, 08:17 AM   #22
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Well that explains something.  I wish you could have done something for those of us that already had done 100s of quests before AA were introduced.

Sorry, I had to reply, this comment nearly made me fall off my chair laughing (which woulda got me some awful funny looks given I'm at work).

You're whinging that you've done loads of quest without getting AA, your sig says youve only done 1066 in total, theres thousands out there left for you lol (yes there are thousands left, for a start I've done over 3 times as many quests as you, so if you think you have a prob finding quests for AA, hah, its much more tricky for me, but meh). 

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Old 12-17-2008, 12:16 PM   #23
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Junaru wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Junaru wrote:

I agree but you a MENTORING. I'm not going to talk to you like you don't know what a L80 toon can do to a L20 heroic mob if he mentored. I know you know. With that said do you really think it's fair that you gain that much AA by doing quests which your toon could walk through without losing an ouch of health? My 47 Warlock was helping out a friend and I was single nuking heroic groups of Gnolls in BB. You can't expect someone with that kind of killing force to gain the way amount of AA doing a quest at those levels.

Could we agree that more than 1% would be appropriate?  Say 3-4%?  Even one shotting, room pulling it takes some time to get random updates.  And you have the time to camp the names with respawns.  It isn't like you walk in, nuke something ding quest done.  You still have to find the thing, and get it to pop or get the random update.

At L20? No. If thise was L50 content then yes I could agree with you. The problem with given that amount of experence at those level is people would abuse it.

"Abuse it"?

LOL

"Dude, don't put stuff in the game or people might actually use it!"

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Old 12-17-2008, 04:41 PM   #24
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Just pick the right places and level.  Went into RE with 4 people, 2 level 40's, one other mentoring 80.  We burned it down in 30 odd minutes and I got 1 AA.  Next I plan on trying to hit up Mines of Meldrath, Klak, Kaladim etc.  Do the instances with the ^^^ and nameds and you should see a better return.

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Old 12-17-2008, 06:43 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

Junaru wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Junaru wrote:

I agree but you a MENTORING. I'm not going to talk to you like you don't know what a L80 toon can do to a L20 heroic mob if he mentored. I know you know. With that said do you really think it's fair that you gain that much AA by doing quests which your toon could walk through without losing an ouch of health? My 47 Warlock was helping out a friend and I was single nuking heroic groups of Gnolls in BB. You can't expect someone with that kind of killing force to gain the way amount of AA doing a quest at those levels.

Could we agree that more than 1% would be appropriate?  Say 3-4%?  Even one shotting, room pulling it takes some time to get random updates.  And you have the time to camp the names with respawns.  It isn't like you walk in, nuke something ding quest done.  You still have to find the thing, and get it to pop or get the random update.

At L20? No. If thise was L50 content then yes I could agree with you. The problem with given that amount of experence at those level is people would abuse it.

"Abuse it"?

LOL

"Dude, don't put stuff in the game or people might actually use it!"

Well gee I guess thats why SOE has left it out. It's NOT IN GAME. Anyone who really things you should get 3 to 4 percent AA for finishing a L20 quest as a L80 toon is.... Well I wont say it but YOU KNOW.

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Old 12-17-2008, 07:49 PM   #26
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Helping freinds, guildies or god forbid new players out by mentoring should have some incentive and it should be AA xp since that is the new goal with TSO.

Oh wait dont bother being nice to noobs just fork out some Smedbucks and buy some AA xp and soon you will reach the new AA limit in no time.

Point is they created a need (AA) and they snuck in a way to feed it (SC) its just good buisness right ?

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Old 12-17-2008, 07:52 PM   #27
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Wintersborn wrote:

Helping freinds, guildies or god forbid new players out by mentoring should have some incentive and it should be AA xp since that is the new goal with TSO.

Oh wait dont bother being nice to noobs just fork out some Smedbucks and buy some AA xp and soon you will reach the new AA limit in no time.

Point is they created a need (AA) and they snuck in a way to feed it (SC) its just good buisness right ?

You cannot buy AAXP via the Station Store. You can buy a temporary percentage increase to the rate at which you gain AAXP, but you still need to go out and earn it. Further, it is entirely possible to earn 200 AAs with the existing content. The insinuation that it is somehow not possible without buying these potions is simply false.

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Old 12-17-2008, 08:09 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Ilucide,

Could you please comment on your reasoning for this mechanic?

It would seem the bonus system is to encourage level 80 characters to mentor leven 15-50 characters in dungeon grinds.  Given dungeon grinds are the absolute worst way for a level 15-50 character to gain xp and aa, why only reward level 80's with the bonus to grind xp?

I'm failing to see how there is a mutual benefit for both the mentor and mentoree given the curent state of the mechanics.  I would be very interested in your reasoning / insight on this item.

The 300% bonus requires a min level 30 spread, I can't even think of any significant heroic quest arcs sub level 50 to work on as a mixed mentor group...

Thanks,

[email protected]

Sure - simple really.

We didn't want players who were going back and doing old quests to feel like they had to find someone to mentor before they did the turnin. The bonus is intended to get people to play together, not to get people to group for 10 seconds before they do a turn-in.

It's the same reason we now give achievement xp for gray quests - we didn't like the idea that having to find someone to mentor was a requirement to finishing a quest.

The mutual benefit is huge on both sides of the coin while adventuring in the world. The person being mentored gets bonus XP while being mentored, in addition to having a powerful and knowledgeable friend along. The person mentoring gets a big bonus to the achievement XP earned from named mobs and loot items that they may not have killed or picked up while they were playing through the content the first time.

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Old 12-17-2008, 09:30 PM   #29
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Wait, what?

Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Ilucide wrote:

The person mentoring gets a big bonus to the achievement XP earned from named mobs and loot items that they may not have killed or picked up while they were playing through the content the first time.

So there is a big bonus to achievement XP or not? I'm lost SMILEY

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Old 12-17-2008, 09:38 PM   #30
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Faymar wrote:

Wait, what?

Ilucide wrote:

Quests do not give bonus achievement XP while mentored - only combat xp.

Ilucide wrote:

The person mentoring gets a big bonus to the achievement XP earned from named mobs and loot items that they may not have killed or picked up while they were playing through the content the first time.

So there is a big bonus to achievement XP or not? I'm lost

I'm not sure I understand the confusion.  There is a sizable bonus applied to achievement xp gained from killing named (for the first time) or looting some items (for the first time).  This bonus is not applied to quests.

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