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Old 12-15-2008, 09:28 AM   #1
swedago

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I am adding four topics that have really been jumping out in these forums.

Easy Mode XP-

I know quite a few players that have left because the game was no longer a challange.  Getting to 80th in 2 weeks is no where near an accomplishment, but a liability.  Players get to 80th with horrbile gear (I saw an 80 tank with his highest resist at 2k, and most of his jewelry was gray), lack of class knowledge (a fury told me he does not cure DoTs cause it causes aggro), and lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

Station Cash-

Probably the worst thought out implentation this game has had.  Gratz on making the game easier for those that wish to pay for XP/AA Acceleration Potions.  How long will it be before you can buy platinum, or even real gear, with Station Cash?  I am sure some people will use this to their advantage and take the easy way to highend.  Great example the game sets now.  Games they may be, but they influence the younger players into thinking certain ways.  When the game was hard (eq1 pre SoV) it taught you that good things must be worked for.  EQ2 says it all is easy, or can be bought.

Veteran Rewards-

Thanks for the title, and uber rewards...  last thing I need is a Vitality refresher, more XP potions, and a pixie on a string.  For the time that was taken (countless hours according to the SoE Team) making the design for the station wallet..  Why not take the time for adding some decent rewards for us that have been loyal to this game since launch..  Perhaps Veteran Housing, a special mount, or even a prefix title for those 5 year vets...  Anything. 

Expansions-

I have bought the all in one expansions since DoF.  It should state "all in one until next year".  Is it to hard to offer a reduced rate for those that have the game already?  Keep your "All in one" for the new players.

Many of my friends from eq1 came to this game when it came out with the hopes that it would better.  It was at first, but it kept getting easier.  now it is all about the money, and everything else gets tossed into the wind. I am saddened to see so many people go because of things that common sense, or at least some kind of information gathering could have prevented. 

An MMO is a lifestyle of certain unique people.  We love to participate in games that cater to social interaction.  These games are where people from all over the world can mingle without prejudice for race, sex, religion, or even handicap.  We all share a common beginning (newbies), and grow with the game, and into online friendships.

MMO Developers have a responsibility as well.  What morality you implement in game is an example for everyone.  At this moment this example you are setting is of a corrupt nature, and of greed.  When a company's president gives interviews, and then contradicts his statements in a not too distant future you will come off as unreliable.. As will the company.

Listen to your players.  We all know this is a business...  So treat it like a good one; integrity, customer service & satisfaction, and innovation.  remember..  We pay your salaries.

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Old 12-15-2008, 09:34 AM   #2
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[email protected] wrote:

lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

You can pin this one on too much soloing options.  Why would anyone need to know where group instances are when you can solo to level cap?

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:00 AM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

You can pin this one on too much soloing options.  Why would anyone need to know where group instances are when you can solo to level cap?

Big deal, many people don't know where stuff is. Are they effective players?  The two are not automatically tied together.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:03 AM   #4
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erin wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

You can pin this one on too much soloing options.  Why would anyone need to know where group instances are when you can solo to level cap?

Big deal, many people don't know where stuff is. Are they effective players?  The two are not automatically tied together.

Either is leveling speed and knowledge of the game.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:26 AM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

You can pin this one on too much soloing options.  Why would anyone need to know where group instances are when you can solo to level cap?

Sorry no, soloing is not to blame for this - group 90 percent of the time and still have to ask how to get someplace I have not been for awhile.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:30 AM   #6
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morality if it ever existed in gaming companies died long ago

eq2s population is declining and that wont stop soe would be dumb mot to try make as much profit as possible out of whatever lasts

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:31 AM   #7
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Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

You can pin this one on too much soloing options.  Why would anyone need to know where group instances are when you can solo to level cap?

Sorry no, soloing is not to blame for this - group 90 percent of the time and still have to ask how to get someplace I have not been for awhile.

Exactly my point.  Some folks get lost.  A lot.  Does not mean they stink at their class.  The two are unrelated.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:38 AM   #8
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erin wrote:

Big deal, many people don't know where stuff is. Are they effective players?  The two are not automatically tied together.

I have a hard time believing someone who doesn't know where BM is is any good at his class (assuming he's level 65+).

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:38 AM   #9
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How DARE someone even attempt to play this game without Wiki-level knowledge of the game!   I mean, how could Best Buy even SELL it without testing them on basic Atlas routes and bell locations?     I think I threw up in my mouth (just a little) at the mere thought of people actually trying to play the game in order to enjoy themselves.    How appalling.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:42 AM   #10
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Has it really come to this?  In a word....Yes.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:46 AM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

How DARE someone even attempt to play this game without Wiki-level knowledge of the game!   I mean, how could Best Buy even SELL it without testing them on basic Atlas routes and bell locations?     I think I threw up in my mouth (just a little) at the mere thought of people actually trying to play the game in order to enjoy themselves.    How appalling.

Think you are missing the point...  The thing is that most tier1-tier3 players know where Wailing Caves, Fallen Gate, Storm Hold, Ruins of Varsoon, etc.. Are.

At level 80 a player should at least know what main zones are in the game. 

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:54 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

How DARE someone even attempt to play this game without Wiki-level knowledge of the game!   I mean, how could Best Buy even SELL it without testing them on basic Atlas routes and bell locations?     I think I threw up in my mouth (just a little) at the mere thought of people actually trying to play the game in order to enjoy themselves.    How appalling.

Yeah, well....

Not being hardcore is cool. Being bloody clueless isn't.

Having to spend 3 hours in a 30 minute zone cos someone in your group doesn't know what "assist" means at level 80? Yeah, that's fun.

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:57 AM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

Players get to 80th with horrbile gear (I saw an 80 tank with his highest resist at 2k, and most of his jewelry was gray),

How could taking longer possibly have changed this?  What gear would he have gotten in his 50s that would possibly have been any benefit to him now if it had taken him a long time to go from 50 - 60?  None.  I've been told on this very board numerous times that doing current instances with level 72 mastercrafted gear is oh-so-easy, so there should be no reason why this guy would need to have acquired any other gear while leveling up to be successful.

lack of class knowledge (a fury told me he does not cure DoTs cause it causes aggro)

Just goes to show you that grouping at lower levels doesn't make someone good at their class.  EQ2 is a simple game, and doesn't take long to learn.  Either you're good at it or you aren't.

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:04 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

EQ2 is a simple game, and doesn't take long to learn. 

Which tells you something about the level 80 players who still don't know how to play their class.

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:11 AM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

EQ2 is a simple game, and doesn't take long to learn. 

Which tells you something about the level 80 players who still don't know how to play their class.

Which has nothing to do with the OP, which is about not knowing where some zones are.  Some people have a lack of zone knowledge.  So what?

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:26 AM   #16
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There are numerous zones in this game and honestly it is difficult and extremely time consuming to explore them all. Bonemire has very few quests in it and really is more a hub to various heroic instances that drop sub-par gear for what is now in the game. Did that person level to 80 through EOF for 1-70 then move on ROK without ever stepping foot in DoF or KoS zones, quite possibly.

I saw a posting about a year ago list over 800 discovery points in the game that were known at the time, impressive list. I tend to think of myself as a pretty accomplished trotter in this game and I still have not visited OR know where every connection point to every zone is.

I think your statement was overly harsh. How many people know where every city, state, country, etc is in the real world? Does everyone have mastery of world geography? Doubtful.

As for knowing your class, I blame that one on the alt-o-holic syndrome associated with a class based game. There are many utility features I would like to see made available through questing and allow more of a multi-classing role through skill based abilities giving us the opportunity to invest more time in creating more well rounded and able toons. For instance, do you really need to be a scout to disarm traps or pick locks? I am thinking anyone should be able to learn that ability and skill it up, etc etc.

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:48 AM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How DARE someone even attempt to play this game without Wiki-level knowledge of the game!   I mean, how could Best Buy even SELL it without testing them on basic Atlas routes and bell locations?     I think I threw up in my mouth (just a little) at the mere thought of people actually trying to play the game in order to enjoy themselves.    How appalling.

Think you are missing the point...  The thing is that most tier1-tier3 players know where Wailing Caves, Fallen Gate, Storm Hold, Ruins of Varsoon, etc.. Are.

At level 80 a player should at least know what main zones are in the game. 

usually good players are somwhat perfectionists, did many quests for AAs, know well their class even if they soloed the whole game and know a bit of each class. They also know the overland zones coz they did the solo quests. so not knowing zones (I didn't say instances and dongeons) and playing well are usually related.

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:49 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

I am adding four topics that have really been jumping out in these forums.

Easy Mode XP-

I know quite a few players that have left because the game was no longer a challange.  Getting to 80th in 2 weeks is no where near an accomplishment, but a liability.  Players get to 80th with horrbile gear (I saw an 80 tank with his highest resist at 2k, and most of his jewelry was gray), lack of class knowledge (a fury told me he does not cure DoTs cause it causes aggro), and lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

If they are getting to 80 in 2 weeks then they don't care about the lower level content anyway.. why put them through hell to get where they want to be?  Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.  There are 80 levels in EQ2, you want to make it where it takes those players 2 years to be able to get 80?  Sorry, that's just dumb.  You actually want to have people to play with at level 80 don't you?  Note that there is a very thick line between how challenging a game is and how fast you can level.  You can make level 25 to 26 take 2 months but not be challenging at all.. just sit there and hit a key over and over.. or worse, macro it. 

Station Cash-

Probably the worst thought out implentation this game has had.  Gratz on making the game easier for those that wish to pay for XP/AA Acceleration Potions.  How long will it be before you can buy platinum, or even real gear, with Station Cash?  I am sure some people will use this to their advantage and take the easy way to highend.  Great example the game sets now.  Games they may be, but they influence the younger players into thinking certain ways.  When the game was hard (eq1 pre SoV) it taught you that good things must be worked for.  EQ2 says it all is easy, or can be bought.

It's not the implmentation, it's the idea its self that is bad.  Hopefully this is something they will change as it sets a terrible gaming precedence.  But let's be clear here, you are stating things such as '(EQ1) taught you that good things must be worked for'.  Sorry, these games should be fun, not work.  That's the lessons we learned from EQ1 and eariler games, we don't pay these games so that we can 'work'.  We want to have fun.   

Veteran Rewards-

Thanks for the title, and uber rewards...  last thing I need is a Vitality refresher, more XP potions, and a pixie on a string.  For the time that was taken (countless hours according to the SoE Team) making the design for the station wallet..  Why not take the time for adding some decent rewards for us that have been loyal to this game since launch..  Perhaps Veteran Housing, a special mount, or even a prefix title for those 5 year vets...  Anything. 

I liked the firedworks, wish they had more of them.  But I will agree with you here, I wish they didn't spend so much time working on a terrible idea like Station Cash, and spent more of it creating cool fluff items in game.  If they are strapped for cash they can charge more a month for all I care, but this whole Station Cash thing is a bit backwards.

Expansions-

I have bought the all in one expansions since DoF.  It should state "all in one until next year".  Is it to hard to offer a reduced rate for those that have the game already?  Keep your "All in one" for the new players.

Could care less, charge me more.. keep including the figure with the pack though, I liked that.  At the end of the day EQ2 saves a player a ton of money.  I can pay 15 bucks a month to give me something to do at nights.. or, I can go out 1 day out of the month and drop 80 at a bar.  You do the math.

Many of my friends from eq1 came to this game when it came out with the hopes that it would better.  It was at first, but it kept getting easier.  now it is all about the money, and everything else gets tossed into the wind. I am saddened to see so many people go because of things that common sense, or at least some kind of information gathering could have prevented. 

An MMO is a lifestyle of certain unique people.  We love to participate in games that cater to social interaction.  These games are where people from all over the world can mingle without prejudice for race, sex, religion, or even handicap.  We all share a common beginning (newbies), and grow with the game, and into online friendships.

MMO Developers have a responsibility as well.  What morality you implement in game is an example for everyone.  At this moment this example you are setting is of a corrupt nature, and of greed.  When a company's president gives interviews, and then contradicts his statements in a not too distant future you will come off as unreliable.. As will the company.

Listen to your players.  We all know this is a business...  So treat it like a good one; integrity, customer service & satisfaction, and innovation.  remember..  We pay your salaries.

Morality?  Corrupt Nature?  Greed?  Come on man, you are turning this into your own personal vindetta.  You sound like one of those crazy bible beaters in the bible bealt.  Look, it's a business.. and as with all businesses it comes down to 1 thing.. money.  It's about the bottom line and if you think any differently then you are fooling yourself.  If station cash makes them x amount of additional money you can be sure it will stay in.  If 85% of the accounts cancel and list station cash as the reason then you can be sure they will take it out.  Companines don't care about Morality and all that crap, they care about money.  If you could assure Sony that they would make an additional 40% revenues off putting a Dallas Cowboys logo in the game, then you can [Removed for Content] well expect it will get put in.

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:56 AM   #19
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erin wrote:

Which has nothing to do with the OP, which is about not knowing where some zones are.  Some people have a lack of zone knowledge.  So what?

Sooo... Maybe if they had to spend some time learning in order to get things done, they WOULD know some stuff? O.o

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Old 12-15-2008, 11:59 AM   #20
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

I think your statement was overly harsh. How many people know where every city, state, country, etc is in the real world? Does everyone have mastery of world geography? Doubtful.

euh ... norath is made of 26 zones (not cities)

10 at the beginning

3 with DoF

3 with KoS

5 with EoF

4 with RoK

1 with TSO

it's far smaller than our world and usually you've been to many zones while I know some people never left their country for many reasons. So difficult to know and remember them all (you usually remember more easilly when you went there personnaly). But people should know the continents, where they are placed and some country too.

dont tell me you can't remember 27 zones in a game. or at least remember where they are when someone tells you the name of the zone ....

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:06 PM   #21
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am adding four topics that have really been jumping out in these forums.

Easy Mode XP-

I know quite a few players that have left because the game was no longer a challange.  Getting to 80th in 2 weeks is no where near an accomplishment, but a liability.  Players get to 80th with horrbile gear (I saw an 80 tank with his highest resist at 2k, and most of his jewelry was gray), lack of class knowledge (a fury told me he does not cure DoTs cause it causes aggro), and lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

If they are getting to 80 in 2 weeks then they don't care about the lower level content anyway.. why put them through hell to get where they want to be?  Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.  There are 80 levels in EQ2, you want to make it where it takes those players 2 years to be able to get 80?  Sorry, that's just dumb.  You actually want to have people to play with at level 80 don't you?  Note that there is a very thick line between how challenging a game is and how fast you can level.  You can make level 25 to 26 take 2 months but not be challenging at all.. just sit there and hit a key over and over.. or worse, macro it. 

Station Cash-

Probably the worst thought out implentation this game has had.  Gratz on making the game easier for those that wish to pay for XP/AA Acceleration Potions.  How long will it be before you can buy platinum, or even real gear, with Station Cash?  I am sure some people will use this to their advantage and take the easy way to highend.  Great example the game sets now.  Games they may be, but they influence the younger players into thinking certain ways.  When the game was hard (eq1 pre SoV) it taught you that good things must be worked for.  EQ2 says it all is easy, or can be bought.

It's not the implmentation, it's the idea its self that is bad.  Hopefully this is something they will change as it sets a terrible gaming precedence.  But let's be clear here, you are stating things such as '(EQ1) taught you that good things must be worked for'.  Sorry, these games should be fun, not work.  That's the lessons we learned from EQ1 and eariler games, we don't pay these games so that we can 'work'.  We want to have fun.   

Veteran Rewards-

Thanks for the title, and uber rewards...  last thing I need is a Vitality refresher, more XP potions, and a pixie on a string.  For the time that was taken (countless hours according to the SoE Team) making the design for the station wallet..  Why not take the time for adding some decent rewards for us that have been loyal to this game since launch..  Perhaps Veteran Housing, a special mount, or even a prefix title for those 5 year vets...  Anything. 

I liked the firedworks, wish they had more of them.  But I will agree with you here, I wish they didn't spend so much time working on a terrible idea like Station Cash, and spent more of it creating cool fluff items in game.  If they are strapped for cash they can charge more a month for all I care, but this whole Station Cash thing is a bit backwards.

Expansions-

I have bought the all in one expansions since DoF.  It should state "all in one until next year".  Is it to hard to offer a reduced rate for those that have the game already?  Keep your "All in one" for the new players.

Could care less, charge me more.. keep including the figure with the pack though, I liked that.  At the end of the day EQ2 saves a player a ton of money.  I can pay 15 bucks a month to give me something to do at nights.. or, I can go out 1 day out of the month and drop 80 at a bar.  You do the math.

Many of my friends from eq1 came to this game when it came out with the hopes that it would better.  It was at first, but it kept getting easier.  now it is all about the money, and everything else gets tossed into the wind. I am saddened to see so many people go because of things that common sense, or at least some kind of information gathering could have prevented. 

An MMO is a lifestyle of certain unique people.  We love to participate in games that cater to social interaction.  These games are where people from all over the world can mingle without prejudice for race, sex, religion, or even handicap.  We all share a common beginning (newbies), and grow with the game, and into online friendships.

MMO Developers have a responsibility as well.  What morality you implement in game is an example for everyone.  At this moment this example you are setting is of a corrupt nature, and of greed.  When a company's president gives interviews, and then contradicts his statements in a not too distant future you will come off as unreliable.. As will the company.

Listen to your players.  We all know this is a business...  So treat it like a good one; integrity, customer service & satisfaction, and innovation.  remember..  We pay your salaries.

Morality?  Corrupt Nature?  Greed?  Come on man, you are turning this into your own personal vindetta.  You sound like one of those crazy bible beaters in the bible bealt.  Look, it's a business.. and as with all businesses it comes down to 1 thing.. money.  It's about the bottom line and if you think any differently then you are fooling yourself.  If station cash makes them x amount of additional money you can be sure it will stay in.  If 85% of the accounts cancel and list station cash as the reason then you can be sure they will take it out.  Companines don't care about Morality and all that crap, they care about money.  If you could assure Sony that they would make an additional 40% revenues off putting a Dallas Cowboys logo in the game, then you can [Removed for Content] well expect it will get put in.

There is nothing about a personal Vendetta involved.  As far as being a bible thumper I am far from that...  20 years in the USMC caused my mind to think otherwise.

I am amused that you would tell me about the business world.  I am very attuned with International Business.  I know that product branding and awareness (including customer satisfaction) is what keeps a product strong.  When a AAA tier MMO like eq2 was turns into a pay-for-gear game like those NC Play type games where you pay no monthly fee, but can upgrade your toon with real life cash.. I find it depressing.

People are leaving the game..  Fact. trying to get them to stay has many options..  In my opnion SoE is taking the wrong ones.  I have many friends I have made over the years in this game, and over and over it is the same issues.  Look at the threads of complaints...  Instead of spending time on customer satisfaction.. It is wasted on product scams instead of quality.

I am glad you enjoy your fireworks...  I would if it was not my 3rd one =P

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:07 PM   #22
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FIRST!!! This is by no means a flame of any sort. I just want to contribute a different viewpoint to the conversation and hopefully change some opinions as well SMILEY

I agree with some of your post. $OE is grabbing for money. This is after all a business and they wouldn't be in this business if they were not making money. I TOTALLY disagree with the item shop but I knew it would prob happen sooner or later. I don't see any problem with it the way it is implemented now but I'm afraid later on they will start to add items I don't approve of (much better gear, maybe even quest updates or other game altering perks).

Also I take issue with what you said about game knowledge and how effective one is at a class. Personally I'm not in a large raid guild and I know there will be spots in the world I will never see. I'm also not familiar with every zone in EQ2. I do however think I'm a good player and I will do whatever is needed to keep my group alive (I'm a fury). I was specced damage and then switched to all healing once I hit 80. I'm working on my healing set now. I have no fabled gear and I will prob never seen any. I have played with clueless players in the past and some of them are quite bad SMILEY. But you also need to remember that player may be 10 years old or he/she may not read gaming sites or visit forums like we do.

The solo content was fun for the first zone (Kylong Plains I think), which my group of friends did in a group. But it got very old after that. They were too easy for our play style. Personally I don't see why they can't have content for all player types: solo, casual, hardcore, raider. For instance I play with a small group of friends and unfortunately we are unable to get guild or alliance groups together for the new group instances. I truly wish Sony would have the instances scale to the composition of your group. Now I'm not asking for a free ride and I don't think I should have the same rewards as someone that players 24/7. We would just like to have a chance at some legendary loot (which is offered by solo quest so I don't see there being a problem there) and some new areas to explore.

Personally I like the increased xp. I have already been to the level cap twice and I'm starting on my third character. Leveling isn't hard anyway. It is just tedious. A lot of people have this misconception of what is hard and what is not. Spending 30 mins on a boat ride to get to point A to point B is not hard, it is tedious. Camping a mob for hours isn't hard, it is tedious. Leveling in and of itself is an artificial mechanic developers use to represent your combined experience as a character and to slow you down (stopping you from flying thru the content).

Now if you want to talk about making the game more of a challenge then I agree. The only way I see to do that is to make the mobs intelligent. One way would be to stop people from body pulling. Make the mob run off and get more of his friends before he decides to attack you. Intelligent mobs would never follow a "lone" adventurer around a corner (to be wacked by the adventurers 5 buddies) by himself. Also have mobs scream for help (DAoC). Having mechanics in the game like this would add more strategy. Also have the mobs use cover and missile weapons instead of charging in. I do think the game should be more fun and challenging but not tedious, which a lot of people seem to get the two confused. I contribute this to the brain washing of EQ1.

I like the veteran rewards SMILEY. I don't see how any of them are game altering except for the xp potions, chest that lowers your rooms cost, and the mounts. I can kinda see your point here but all you have to do is not use them just like I'm not going to use the Station cash thing. It is a personal choice and I think it will be up to the individual player to decide. Personally I like all the choices we have to play anyway we want.

In closing, I see this argument on the boards all the time. We are tired of "easy mode" EQ2. But what a lot of people are wanting are long tedious grinds. I however am asking for a more challenging game. If you want tedious grinds I say EQ1 is for you. Eq2 could be great if they just made the game more challenging with mob AI and the use of terrain. There really is no reason to spend 2 years grinding to level 80 or to take you 36 hours to get that piece of gear. I'm sorry to say this but that isn't hard. All that shows is you have nothing else to do with your time. Developers this fan ask for a more challenging game, not artificial time sinks, slowed progression, or keyed content.

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:10 PM   #23
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am adding four topics that have really been jumping out in these forums.

Easy Mode XP-

I know quite a few players that have left because the game was no longer a challange.  Getting to 80th in 2 weeks is no where near an accomplishment, but a liability.  Players get to 80th with horrbile gear (I saw an 80 tank with his highest resist at 2k, and most of his jewelry was gray), lack of class knowledge (a fury told me he does not cure DoTs cause it causes aggro), and lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

If they are getting to 80 in 2 weeks then they don't care about the lower level content anyway.. why put them through hell to get where they want to be?  Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.  There are 80 levels in EQ2, you want to make it where it takes those players 2 years to be able to get 80?  Sorry, that's just dumb.  You actually want to have people to play with at level 80 don't you?  Note that there is a very thick line between how challenging a game is and how fast you can level.  You can make level 25 to 26 take 2 months but not be challenging at all.. just sit there and hit a key over and over.. or worse, macro it.

I think it's the fact that they now CAN get to level 80 in two weeks. I've been playing the game for about a year now, and I'm only at level 75, and I'm glad it's taking me this long, I'm not saying it should take a year for everyone to level, but really now, 2 weeks to a month is a little crazy. There is so much in this game, that players SHOULD know, and when you get up to 80 and see tanks and dps or whatever with horrid gear, not knowing where they're going, that's a BAD thing. I would rather have level 80's to play with that know what they're doing, not ones that can brag about how fast they levelled.

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:14 PM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am adding four topics that have really been jumping out in these forums.

Easy Mode XP-

I know quite a few players that have left because the game was no longer a challange.  Getting to 80th in 2 weeks is no where near an accomplishment, but a liability.  Players get to 80th with horrbile gear (I saw an 80 tank with his highest resist at 2k, and most of his jewelry was gray), lack of class knowledge (a fury told me he does not cure DoTs cause it causes aggro), and lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

If they are getting to 80 in 2 weeks then they don't care about the lower level content anyway.. why put them through hell to get where they want to be?  Doesn't seem to make any sense to me.  There are 80 levels in EQ2, you want to make it where it takes those players 2 years to be able to get 80?  Sorry, that's just dumb.  You actually want to have people to play with at level 80 don't you?  Note that there is a very thick line between how challenging a game is and how fast you can level.  You can make level 25 to 26 take 2 months but not be challenging at all.. just sit there and hit a key over and over.. or worse, macro it. 

Station Cash-

Probably the worst thought out implentation this game has had.  Gratz on making the game easier for those that wish to pay for XP/AA Acceleration Potions.  How long will it be before you can buy platinum, or even real gear, with Station Cash?  I am sure some people will use this to their advantage and take the easy way to highend.  Great example the game sets now.  Games they may be, but they influence the younger players into thinking certain ways.  When the game was hard (eq1 pre SoV) it taught you that good things must be worked for.  EQ2 says it all is easy, or can be bought.

It's not the implmentation, it's the idea its self that is bad.  Hopefully this is something they will change as it sets a terrible gaming precedence.  But let's be clear here, you are stating things such as '(EQ1) taught you that good things must be worked for'.  Sorry, these games should be fun, not work.  That's the lessons we learned from EQ1 and eariler games, we don't pay these games so that we can 'work'.  We want to have fun.   

Veteran Rewards-

Thanks for the title, and uber rewards...  last thing I need is a Vitality refresher, more XP potions, and a pixie on a string.  For the time that was taken (countless hours according to the SoE Team) making the design for the station wallet..  Why not take the time for adding some decent rewards for us that have been loyal to this game since launch..  Perhaps Veteran Housing, a special mount, or even a prefix title for those 5 year vets...  Anything. 

I liked the firedworks, wish they had more of them.  But I will agree with you here, I wish they didn't spend so much time working on a terrible idea like Station Cash, and spent more of it creating cool fluff items in game.  If they are strapped for cash they can charge more a month for all I care, but this whole Station Cash thing is a bit backwards.

Expansions-

I have bought the all in one expansions since DoF.  It should state "all in one until next year".  Is it to hard to offer a reduced rate for those that have the game already?  Keep your "All in one" for the new players.

Could care less, charge me more.. keep including the figure with the pack though, I liked that.  At the end of the day EQ2 saves a player a ton of money.  I can pay 15 bucks a month to give me something to do at nights.. or, I can go out 1 day out of the month and drop 80 at a bar.  You do the math.

Many of my friends from eq1 came to this game when it came out with the hopes that it would better.  It was at first, but it kept getting easier.  now it is all about the money, and everything else gets tossed into the wind. I am saddened to see so many people go because of things that common sense, or at least some kind of information gathering could have prevented. 

An MMO is a lifestyle of certain unique people.  We love to participate in games that cater to social interaction.  These games are where people from all over the world can mingle without prejudice for race, sex, religion, or even handicap.  We all share a common beginning (newbies), and grow with the game, and into online friendships.

MMO Developers have a responsibility as well.  What morality you implement in game is an example for everyone.  At this moment this example you are setting is of a corrupt nature, and of greed.  When a company's president gives interviews, and then contradicts his statements in a not too distant future you will come off as unreliable.. As will the company.

Listen to your players.  We all know this is a business...  So treat it like a good one; integrity, customer service & satisfaction, and innovation.  remember..  We pay your salaries.

Morality?  Corrupt Nature?  Greed?  Come on man, you are turning this into your own personal vindetta.  You sound like one of those crazy bible beaters in the bible bealt.  Look, it's a business.. and as with all businesses it comes down to 1 thing.. money.  It's about the bottom line and if you think any differently then you are fooling yourself.  If station cash makes them x amount of additional money you can be sure it will stay in.  If 85% of the accounts cancel and list station cash as the reason then you can be sure they will take it out.  Companines don't care about Morality and all that crap, they care about money.  If you could assure Sony that they would make an additional 40% revenues off putting a Dallas Cowboys logo in the game, then you can [Removed for Content] well expect it will get put in.

There is nothing about a personal Vendetta involved.  As far as being a bible thumper I am far from that...  20 years in the USMC caused my mind to think otherwise.

I am amused that you would tell me about the business world.  I am very attuned with International Business.  I know that product branding and awareness (including customer satisfaction) is what keeps a product strong.  When a AAA tier MMO like eq2 was turns into a pay-for-gear game like those NC Play type games where you pay no monthly fee, but can upgrade your toon with real life cash.. I find it depressing.

People are leaving the game..  Fact. trying to get them to stay has many options..  In my opnion SoE is taking the wrong ones.  I have many friends I have made over the years in this game, and over and over it is the same issues.  Look at the threads of complaints...  Instead of spending time on customer satisfaction.. It is wasted on product scams instead of quality.

I am glad you enjoy your fireworks...  I would if it was not my 3rd one =P

Just to be clear, I don't like Station Cash.  What really goats me is that we have Station Cash and pay a monthly fee.. that's just not right.  But at the end of the day it's a business and they will do what they can get away with.  Remember this is the same company that 'redesigned' SWG and basically destoryed the game and it's player base.  Is Station Cash going to have the same effect on EQ2?  Dunno.  I don't think it will be that drastic, but certainly it is having an effect.  Let's just hope Sony learned from SWG and is willing to pull back out of an idea once they see how much damage it's doing.

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:36 PM   #25
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evilbp wrote:

Personally I don't see why they can't have content for all player types: solo, casual, hardcore, raider. For instance I play with a small group of friends and unfortunately we are unable to get guild or alliance groups together for the new group instances. I truly wish Sony would have the instances scale to the composition of your group. Now I'm not asking for a free ride and I don't think I should have the same rewards as someone that players 24/7. We would just like to have a chance at some legendary loot (which is offered by solo quest so I don't see there being a problem there) and some new areas to explore.

Based on the current timeline for expansions and taking your statement into consideration, we would probably see expansions coming out about every 2-2 1/2 years. And there still would be insufficient content for some that positively fly through content, and within a couple months after the release of the expansion, we'd have people on these boards grousing yet again about how there's not enough to do. 

Now if you want to talk about making the game more of a challenge then I agree. The only way I see to do that is to make the mobs intelligent. One way would be to stop people from body pulling. Make the mob run off and get more of his friends before he decides to attack you. Intelligent mobs would never follow a "lone" adventurer around a corner (to be wacked by the adventurers 5 buddies) by himself. Also have mobs scream for help (DAoC). Having mechanics in the game like this would add more strategy. Also have the mobs use cover and missile weapons instead of charging in. I do think the game should be more fun and challenging but not tedious, which a lot of people seem to get the two confused. I contribute this to the brain washing of EQ1.

I'd personally prefer to see a smarter AI myself. Some of the worst fights I ever got involved with in EQ1 generally involved a snaring class asleep at the switch and not getting a low-health mob snared in time, and we would get treated to said mob wandering off (simulating breaking morale) and pathing into a bunch of buddies and transferring aggro to them.  As for body-pulling, don't discount the number of deaths that were probably prevented by someone that could finesse a pull in that manner.  There are some zones (Karnor's Castle comes to mind) where a good body pull is the difference between pressing forward and having to start the zone all over again. Heck, with a good body puller in the group, Illusionists and Coercers can actually sit back and read a book in a group. 

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:37 PM   #26
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No one gets to level 80 in 2 weeks, and the only ones who come close are the hardcore players who already know all the places to level quickly, have multiple level 80 characters for the xp bonus, and get a full group to mentor to them all the time. In other words, it's certainly not new players who approach that levelling speed.

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:38 PM   #27
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Well, I kinda see what the OP is saying but the fact of the matter is that MMORPG's have a much much wider audience now than they did five or ten years ago. Used to be a bunch of geeks (like me) playing hardcore and learning what all those numbers on the screen mean.  Now you have other people playing who aren't concerned with what the hard cap on the stats are or how to time CA's with your auto attacks so you get the most DPS.

For those of you who have played forever and remember the "good old days" this kinda sucks. Yet there is a bright side... I mean, at least MMO's are appealing to a wider audience now so that we have more players out there.

As for not knowing where stuff is... I've been playing for over four years and I still gotta stop and think about how to get to Steamfont. I'm also a little embarassed to admit that as a tank I suck big because I'm directionally challened and places like DFC and Nek Castle get me all twisted around.

I still know how to get my Monk to crank out some pretty decent DPS, despite not being able to find my way out of  a paperbag. LOL

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Old 12-15-2008, 12:59 PM   #28
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Sorry but the OP is an old school player who grew his toon into what it is. I myself started on day one of EQ2 and have never dropped my account for more then a month (moved once). But at the same time I have tried to get friends to play EQ2 and ALL of them stopped playing at around 40ish because they hate doing everything alone. What the OP fails to remember is when he was stomping Stormhold there was 50 other people stomping the same zone. When he was LFG in Bonemire there was other people LFG as well. When he was looking for help on a L40 HQ there were other people needing the same thing. I chalenge the OP to start his toon over on a new server where he doesn't know anyone and level up to 80. See how much fun it is LFG for 3 hours and never getting a tell. See how much fun it is trying to complete a heroic quest for gear when no one is around. Sorry but you did all the content in it's prime. You think it's the same way but it isn't. Lower levels SUCK anymore. If you don't solo you don't level. Hell I have a second account just so I can PL my toons into the 60's/70's just so I can find a group and don't have to solo.

While you think the game is dumbed down because SOE is trying to be WoW or whatever you are wrong. SOE dumb down the game because new players couldn't level up because new players couldn't find a group.

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Old 12-15-2008, 01:51 PM   #29
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Game is easy?  I'd say its easier.  XP comes a lot faster than it used to.  I think TD really sped up the leveling process with starting with no gear, ending up with a full set that is better than everything 20-30 quested, and level 20 in less than 5 hours of play.  I think soloing makes you a good player. 

Hell, honest to god, I got lost running through Commonlands going to FG.  I've been to FG a hundred times, but my map was black and I ended about probably 2500 meters south of FG.  Oh well, we all get lost its a huge game.  Does that make me a bad player?  My highest toon that I leveled is this one, before that was my 55 Ranger.  Now its getting to be new to me, and lots to explore.  Lots of zones I've never been to.

I agree Solo timelines being so fast have killed a lot of group and friendship ops but, I've noticed since I've gotten a toon back into the 50s that the population in those zones is up.  I am doing TT froggy quests and I've duoed up with a lot of people to run War Chest Quests.  Its a blast grabbing a duo and spanking some flying dragon bird things.  I notice more and more people on every day.  Saturday evening my cousin wanted to try the game out so he made a Troll Brig and I ran it to TD.  There were actually probably 20-30 honest to go newbies leveling toons.  People were asking for help and directions.  I couldn't believe it.

Now what I agree with is that station cash is a sham.  I can not honestly believe that they would put this in the game.  I used the 150 they gave me, and then thats it I'll never ever buy anything off of there.  Now if they would of made it so you can turn plat into station cash and bought some special apperance or house items.  That would of been neat for those people who have disposable plate.  I personally have 10 plat and I started with 0.   I wouldn't be wasting it.

Looking back now.  If they took EQ1 rereleased it with EQ2 graphics, but with all the orginal features lets say, start at Velious expansion.  Would I play it? Hell no I wouldn't go back and deal with Corpse runs, hell levels, ect ect.  I don't have that kind of time anymore.  I have a wife, a home and job.  Back then I had my parents house and high school, and then college.  I had all the time in the world to waste an evening on a freaking corpse run.  Or all the time in the world to bang out level 35 sitting in the corner of some god forsaken zone with 5 other people for several hours.  Was it fun then?  MY god I had a blast.  I even lost a wonderful girlfriend over EQ!  What that worth it? Probably not, but oh well.

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Old 12-15-2008, 02:27 PM   #30
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Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

lack of general game knowledge (I joined a PUG for Halls of Fate, and the healer asked where Bonemire was).

You can pin this one on too much soloing options.  Why would anyone need to know where group instances are when you can solo to level cap?

Sorry no, soloing is not to blame for this - group 90 percent of the time and still have to ask how to get someplace I have not been for awhile.

Yeah when there's a problem with the game people blame the solo content,maybe someday people will realize it's the player and their playstyle choices.

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