EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Class Discussion > Scout's Den > Ranger
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-14-2009, 08:18 PM   #1
canabal1

Loremaster
canabal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

I posted this in a reply to another topic but thought it might make a good talking point.

I have a level 80 ranger and I have never really understood why summon arrows was even included.  The problem is this-

The quality of the arrows you get are not even worth using in a pinch and if it is 80% of your source of damage (Bow), you should never be low on arrows when you hit the trail.

This raises the ultimate question....Why did SoE put it in the game?  Because arrows are a major componenent in a rangers damage they should have made the summoned arrows get better with each upgrade making master slightly better then the same tier crafted arrows.  So, rangers have to buy their damage through arrows AND poison.  That would be like a wizzy having to BUY a componenet to cast every spell that costs 7sp each.  I have read that ammo is a significant crafter income source so that is the reason they will not make this change?  bs

SOE "Ballance"- Create gear that reduces the chance to use arrows.

That just proves the screwd up this mechanic and are not willing to fix the spell "summon arrows".

"Stream of arrows" should have damage increased and reduce chance to hit a little, allowing the self buff to make up acuracy.  Because it cant be used solo, this would make it (and rangers) more usefull in endgame content and a fair ballance.

Hawk dive?....Give us a wolf that grabs agro instead...just thinking hehe

canabal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2009, 08:38 PM   #2
Ol
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Elusive
Rank: Recruit

General
Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 502
Default

canabal1 wrote:

I posted this in a reply to another topic but thought it might make a good talking point.

I have a level 80 ranger and I have never really understood why summon arrows was even included.  The problem is this-

The quality of the arrows you get are not even worth using in a pinch and if it is 80% of your source of damage (Bow), you should never be low on arrows when you hit the trail.

This raises the ultimate question....Why did SoE put it in the game?  Because arrows are a major componenent in a rangers damage they should have made the summoned arrows get better with each upgrade making master slightly better then the same tier crafted arrows.  No this is a good source of money for woodworkers. Just because you dont want to pay for the arrows, doesnt mean they should be handed to you.

So, rangers have to buy their damage through arrows AND poison.  That would be like a wizzy having to BUY a componenet to cast every spell that costs 7sp each. Id like to see wizzies hitting insanely high with their autoattacks.  I have read that ammo is a significant crafter income source so that is the reason they will not make this change?  bs why make a crafter useless cause rangers dont want to pay for arrows?

SOE "Ballance"- Create gear that reduces the chance to use arrows.

That just proves the screwd up this mechanic and are not willing to fix the spell "summon arrows". its not broken. look at it this way. If you can pick up a whole bunch of arrows out of no where, out of things like twigs on the ground, how are they top class arrows?

"Stream of arrows" should have damage increased and reduce chance to hit a little, allowing the self buff to make up acuracy.  Because it cant be used solo, this would make it (and rangers) more usefull in endgame content and a fair ballance.

__________________
I see said the blind man...
Ol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 12:08 AM   #3
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Summon Arrows is pretty much an emergancy spell to use if for some reason you run out of arrows. If you never run out of arrows or can bum some off a group member, then yea it doesn't get much use. But if you run out of arrows and can't get anymore for a while... you aren't completely [Removed for Content].

And ranger forums are that way

along with other summon arrows threads.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 02:48 PM   #4
canabal1

Loremaster
canabal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Olik, my ranger is a woodworker also and he is not rich from arrows he sells and having one class not in the market for the several types of ammo he makes will hardly make him a useless crafting class.

For your second point, I'd like to see a ranger without poison and using summoned arrows parse against a wizzy.  Auto attack was a good thought but total damage is what really maters.

canabal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 03:03 PM   #5
Ol
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Elusive
Rank: Recruit

General
Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 502
Default

canabal1 wrote:

Olik, my ranger is a woodworker also and he is not rich from arrows he sells and having one class not in the market for the several types of ammo he makes will hardly make him a useless crafting class.

For your second point, I'd like to see a ranger without poison and using summoned arrows parse against a wizzy.  Auto attack was a good thought but total damage is what really maters.

Rangers use more arrows than all the other classes combined. so i would say it would be a big hit. and wizzies still arent the number one parsers.

__________________
I see said the blind man...
Ol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 03:15 PM   #6
canabal1

Loremaster
canabal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Come on now, your not making good points Olik.  Most rangers are either WW or get there Arrows from guildies BECAUSE they use so manny arrows, and i was not discussing who does the most damage over all, My point was for comparison only.

canabal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 04:08 PM   #7
Ol
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Elusive
Rank: Recruit

General
Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 502
Default

canabal1 wrote:

Come on now, your not making good points Olik.  Most rangers are either WW or get there Arrows from guildies BECAUSE they use so manny arrows, and i was not discussing who does the most damage over all, My point was for comparison only.

Your a ranger. when you made the class YOU KNEW you would be firing arrows off at enemies. If you dont like that you can reroll. Is that a good enough point for you?

__________________
I see said the blind man...
Ol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 04:18 PM   #8
canabal1

Loremaster
canabal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Actually I have 4 80's, Ranger being just one of them...ya know what?  This is going no where with you so I end my response.

canabal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 04:25 PM   #9
Ol
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Elusive
Rank: Recruit

General
Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 502
Default

canabal1 wrote:

Actually I have 4 80's, Ranger being just one of them...ya know what?  This is going no where with you so I end my response.

that had nothing to do with the topic. Im just saying, rangers are meant to shoot off arrows at the enemy.

How can a ranger just summon up these tip top arrows out of no where?

Woodworkers made good money from arrows. Dont make them take a dive in cash.

__________________
I see said the blind man...
Ol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #10
glowsintheda

General
glowsintheda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 448
Default

Personally don't care about having to buy arrows or make them myself or whatever, I care about that fact that the summon arrows ability is pretty much worthless.  If they don't want to make it summon better quality arrows, then have it be either a temp buff that provides some sort of added mobus to the arrows you are already using for the duration, or have it summon a stack of upgraded arrows, based on the arrows you are already using (ie consume a stack of ferrite field point arrows to make a stack of Ranger's Ferrite field point arrows, they become no trade, but either gain a proc, or added damage or chance to hit or whatever they think would be balance)

glowsintheda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 09:07 PM   #11
feldon30

Fansite Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,424
Default

[email protected] wrote:

How can a ranger just summon up these tip top arrows out of no where?

Did you watch Lord of the Rings? Or any other period movie?

Archers collect arrows from the dead.

Anyway, this is such a dead overdone topic. You should be making enough money from dungeon runs to afford arrows. Solo kill 15 overland trash in Kunark and you will usually get a chest containing a randomly generated piece of armor which can be sold to the vendor for 16g. That's enough for 3 stacks of arrows.

Aeralik put in an AA line for rangers to boost their summoned arrows nearly as good as the crafted ones. The unanimous response was "We can buy arrows thank you very much, we can't buy an awesome AA ability, please replace the AA ability with a damage-based one" so that's how we got Exploding Arrow.

feldon30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 10:25 AM   #12
dbmoreland

Loremaster
dbmoreland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 343
Default

canabal1 wrote:

I posted this in a reply to another topic but thought it might make a good talking point.

I have a level 80 ranger and I have never really understood why summon arrows was even included.  The problem is this-

The quality of the arrows you get are not even worth using in a pinch and if it is 80% of your source of damage (Bow), you should never be low on arrows when you hit the trail.

This raises the ultimate question....Why did SoE put it in the game?  Because arrows are a major componenent in a rangers damage they should have made the summoned arrows get better with each upgrade making master slightly better then the same tier crafted arrows.  So, rangers have to buy their damage through arrows AND poison.  That would be like a wizzy having to BUY a componenet to cast every spell that costs 7sp each.  I have read that ammo is a significant crafter income source so that is the reason they will not make this change?  bs

SOE "Ballance"- Create gear that reduces the chance to use arrows.

That just proves the screwd up this mechanic and are not willing to fix the spell "summon arrows".

"Stream of arrows" should have damage increased and reduce chance to hit a little, allowing the self buff to make up acuracy.  Because it cant be used solo, this would make it (and rangers) more usefull in endgame content and a fair ballance.

Hawk dive?....Give us a wolf that grabs agro instead...just thinking hehe

Let me help you out then. SOE put summon arrows in the game because rangers use a lot of arrows and they did not want them to HAVE to pay for them. The vast majority of the rangers out there are NOT like you, they are not level 80 with 200 aas that raid 7 days per week and therefore MUST be doing their absolute maximum DPS every single time they fire their bow. The majority of the rangers out there are below level 75 and are out hunting solo or with a few of their friends and are perfectly happy to be firing off FREE arrows that do 90% of the damage as the very best arrows in the game. Just because this CA is "unusable" by less than 5% of the population does not mean that it is unusable by the other 95%.

Now I will totaly agree with you on Stream of Arrows. With the exception of the first 5 months that we had it, it has been an unusable CA for everyone because it has NO benifits (It does less damage than using auto attack only) and a severe penalty (roots and stiffles the ranger so that he cannot do anything else). I cannot think of a single situation in which I would want to use this CA.

dbmoreland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 02:42 PM   #13
feldon30

Fansite Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,424
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Let me help you out then. SOE put summon arrows in the game because rangers use a lot of arrows and they did not want them to HAVE to pay for them. The vast majority of the rangers out there are NOT like you, they are not level 80 with 200 aas that raid 7 days per week and therefore MUST be doing their absolute maximum DPS every single time they fire their bow.

I love extremist b.s. posts like this. It's so easy to poke holes in them.

You do not need to be a pimply-faced teenager to have the best weapons, ammo, etc. in EQ2.

With the leveling speed instituted prior in GU49 and 50, if you are not level 70 after 5 months, I think you must have all quest XP disabled and/or be trying very hard NOT to level. SoE is doing everything they can to push players to level 50 as fast as they can. You claim you love to solo, well soloing is the quickest way to get from level 70 to 80.

I have 160 AAs, raid 2 nights a week, and group occasionally. I want to do the maximum DPS I can, and have more than enough money to buy my arrows. Even from soloing, collecting and selling shinies, tradeskilling, etc. you can make stacks of cash in EQ2. Complete one or two quests in Kunark and you will have enough gold to buy 1-2 stacks of arrows.

I do think it is funny that it doesn't cost Wizards, Warlocks, etc. any money to do their DPS, while we are essentially flinging silver pieces at the enemy. But we get enough money that I can live with the situation as it is now. I have no objection to Summon Arrows, but I do not expect them to equal woodworker-made arrows.

feldon30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 10:23 PM   #14
canabal1

Loremaster
canabal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Well i may have been a little unclear by adding the point that we have to buy our damage, but the real point is we need to make it so all classes have to summon a component to activate any CA be it casting healin melee and buffs because everyone uses them so often.

Joking of course

I agree about adding damage CA's instead of inproving arrows to a point.  Every class has usless CA's or broken ones that need atention.  Reduce the casting time on sniper to 5 min, reduce min range on coverage and give me better arrows might be better then exploding arrows? (just an example only)  And not because i cant afford them (I make them)...because it is truely a useless CA.

Hope my point is understood.

canabal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 01:16 AM   #15
glowsintheda

General
glowsintheda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 448
Default

[email protected] wrote:

The vast majority of the rangers out there are NOT like you, they are not level 80 with 200 aas that raid 7 days per week and therefore MUST be doing their absolute maximum DPS every single time they fire their bow.

If rangers brought anything else at all to the party besides DPS then maybe you would have a point.  Since rangers have absoloutly zero utility, DPS is all they do, and if you can't be bothered to bring as much of it as you possibly can to the group, then there is no reason at all for them to take you instead of any of the other mage or scout classes.  If they want summon arrows to be a useable alternative to storebought then at the very least it should summon a full stack of them at apprentice 1, and inscrease the number of stacks by 1 for each increased rank, I think at m1 it is currently something like 65 arrows or something rediculous like that.  If I am gonna be using these sub par, but money saving arrows, then at least have it summon a useful ammount.

glowsintheda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 09:08 AM   #16
dbmoreland

Loremaster
dbmoreland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 343
Default

feldon30 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Let me help you out then. SOE put summon arrows in the game because rangers use a lot of arrows and they did not want them to HAVE to pay for them. The vast majority of the rangers out there are NOT like you, they are not level 80 with 200 aas that raid 7 days per week and therefore MUST be doing their absolute maximum DPS every single time they fire their bow.

I love extremist b.s. posts like this. It's so easy to poke holes in them.

You do not need to be a pimply-faced teenager to have the best weapons, ammo, etc. in EQ2.

With the leveling speed instituted prior in GU49 and 50, if you are not level 70 after 5 months, I think you must have all quest XP disabled and/or be trying very hard NOT to level. SoE is doing everything they can to push players to level 50 as fast as they can. You claim you love to solo, well soloing is the quickest way to get from level 70 to 80.

I have 160 AAs, raid 2 nights a week, and group occasionally. I want to do the maximum DPS I can, and have more than enough money to buy my arrows. Even from soloing, collecting and selling shinies, tradeskilling, etc. you can make stacks of cash in EQ2. Complete one or two quests in Kunark and you will have enough gold to buy 1-2 stacks of arrows.

I do think it is funny that it doesn't cost Wizards, Warlocks, etc. any money to do their DPS, while we are essentially flinging silver pieces at the enemy. But we get enough money that I can live with the situation as it is now. I have no objection to Summon Arrows, but I do not expect them to equal woodworker-made arrows.

And thank you for helping me make my point. 90% of the rangers out there are not level 80 with 160 aas raiding two days per week. The majority of the rangers are less than level 75 playing solo or with a couple of their friends and could care less how much damage they do as long as the mob dies. These are the rangers that the summon arrow CA was added for, not the "end game" rangers like you and me who actually care about how much damage we do.

And yes the fundamental difference between every mage and scout is that scouts pay for their damage and mages do not. If you want free damage play a mage, if you want to have to pay for it play a scout.

dbmoreland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009, 09:13 AM   #17
dbmoreland

Loremaster
dbmoreland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 343
Default

glowsinthedark wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The vast majority of the rangers out there are NOT like you, they are not level 80 with 200 aas that raid 7 days per week and therefore MUST be doing their absolute maximum DPS every single time they fire their bow.

If rangers brought anything else at all to the party besides DPS then maybe you would have a point.  Since rangers have absoloutly zero utility, DPS is all they do, and if you can't be bothered to bring as much of it as you possibly can to the group, then there is no reason at all for them to take you instead of any of the other mage or scout classes.  If they want summon arrows to be a useable alternative to storebought then at the very least it should summon a full stack of them at apprentice 1, and inscrease the number of stacks by 1 for each increased rank, I think at m1 it is currently something like 65 arrows or something rediculous like that.  If I am gonna be using these sub par, but money saving arrows, then at least have it summon a useful ammount.

You are correct, rangers bring DPS to the party. However the majority of the rangers out there right now are not going to parties they were not already throwing themselves. They are killing mobs all by themselves or with a few of their friends and could care less how much damage they are doing as long as the mobs are dieing. And for these rangers 60 arrows every 5 min is more than enough arrows. Summon arrow was never ment for the "end game" raiding ranger. It was ment for the other 90%.

dbmoreland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:51 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.