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Old 01-08-2010, 09:56 AM   #691
Jynnan

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[email protected] wrote:

Sadly, I am of the opinion that there never was more than a vague thought that maybe it might perhaps be a good idea to sell the boxed version outside the US. Sadly also, I am of the opinion that, even were we to get the boxed version and sit up smart ready to play on the morning of the grand seven day head start, somehow, it would not yet be live on the European servers. Experience has taught me to feel like this; before experience kicked in, I was predisposed to think that I would be treated the same as everyone else.

Maybe I am part of the problem here because I really like EQII and have, with friends, invested a lot of time as well as money in playing the game and it would take a lot for me to take my time and money elsewhere. Now if Ultima online came up with a new game... However, my lack of willingness to go elsewhere (at the moment) does not mean that I am happy. This issue and a number of similar ones make me feel slighted.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake that SOE made in this whole debacle was deciding to put a seven day pre-play in to the boxed version. If you can't take advantage of this, it affects in-game play. Game discoveries will have been made (small thing but fun), guild mates will have adventured in the new zones etc etc. I always understood that anything given away free in this way would not affect game play but rather be cosmetic.

Three final points:

1) I am sure that we all, well nearly all, accept that Kiara is not personally responsible for this. However, in this context she is the "face" of SOE and people with a legitimate concern or complaint, need to express their feelings to someone. A sticky place to be at times and I don't envy her the job.

2) UK shops are full of large Sony items such as televisions. If an arm of Sony can ship TVs around the world, why can't SOE ship a few small boxes? And this idea that SOE must persuade shops to stock the game is a bit lame really when online retailers like Amazon seem to be the main distributors and they stock almost anything! A friend of mine wrote a book about the history of her tiny village - and you can buy that from Amazon UK!

3) There are no US citizens in my guild (just how it turned out - nothing personal!) so I can't ask anyone to ship one to me. That is not an option for everyone.

Phew! That's a lot for so early in the morning! Happy New Year Everyone!

Absolutely, A1, First-class post!

Good work fella!

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Old 01-08-2010, 11:27 AM   #692
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Why can't SoE just give people the extra week with the digital download in the non-us countries. i can't imagine it would be that hard.

It would probably violate the terms of the contract with the US retail distributors.

IF it did, that would be REALLY silly since these retailers have NO market here... but then again "forgeting" about 95% + of the worlds population in your latest "brilliant" marketing ploy is pretty darned silly too

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Old 01-08-2010, 11:35 AM   #693
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Jynnan wrote:

Kiara wrote:

Jynnan wrote:

Anyone tried to PM Kiara for a response?

Might be fun if EVERYONE did!

No, no it would not.  When I have an answer to share, I will.  I've already asked for an update.

You're right, it wouldn't be a good idea and my suggestion was kind of tongue-in-cheek; however, it DID illicit a response from you for the first time in 8 weeks, which shows us that you are still monitoring this thread, even if you don't have the decency to make any comments. As many posts have said, ANY comment, whether to say that there is still no news is better than keeping quiet and not saying anything.

When I was at University we were taught that if you say nothing in any business and don't keep your people updated and informed, rumours will always break out and morale will start to break down. This is precisely why you are getting angry CUSTOMERS posting all sorts of theories and scare stories on this thread.

  Just to be fair here, Kiara has posted several times in this forum the last 8 weeks. Unfortunately, it's always been to tell us that someone is working on it or that no new information is available at this time. I as unhappy about this as anyone, BUT don't comment on Kiara's "decency" without actually informing yourself (reading the pages, I know it's a lot). As SOooo many people said, this fiasco  is not Kiara's fault, and I seriously don't envy this position she's in.

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Old 01-08-2010, 12:03 PM   #694
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today i have canceled my subscribtion. wish you all the best with the add-on. maybe something "good" will happen and soe finds a solution for european customers. with such a patriotism company-policy in germany we get compared with "national socialism" and everybody points a finger on the grievance SMILEY!

regards from germany

akbar

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Old 01-08-2010, 12:10 PM   #695
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I abhor the weak-bladdered cowards who hide behind Kiara, and refuse to make any comment or post on the threads about the issues being raised. Namely, the people responsible for marketing and distribution of EQ2-SF. Nothing short of pathetic.Many people are preaching about how we should not hate on Kiara. In large I agree with that notion, but it is very important to remember something... The fact of the matter is that someone at SOE is responsible for this failure. Kiara chooses to protect their identity, and buffer them from the negative feedback. Her actions reek of damage control, and condoning the actions of those who give her orders. How many wise men have said, if you are not a part of a solution, you're a part of the problem?  8 weeks of the matter being "looked into", with no progress made (excluding Canada), no solutions or alternatives, and no contingency plans being announced, is not acceptable. SOE's silence on this issue is deafening, and affected players have every right to get [Removed for Content] off and start flaming SOE as hard as they can.Congratulations SOE. Your hairbrained marketing scheme is already reaping negative publicity on major MMO websites. And its going to get a heck of a lot worse, very soon, unless a rabbit is pulled out of the hat, fast.

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Old 01-08-2010, 12:35 PM   #696
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[email protected] wrote:

In my opinion, the biggest mistake that SOE made in this whole debacle was deciding to put a seven day pre-play in to the boxed version. If you can't take advantage of this, it affects in-game play. Game discoveries will have been made (small thing but fun), guild mates will have adventured in the new zones etc etc. I always understood that anything given away free in this way would not affect game play but rather be cosmetic.

This would be true even if distribution existed outside the US, IMO. Everyone who has to have it shipped - inside the US or not - runs the risk of shipping failures/delays. It will happen to some; that's just how it goes. No matter where they live, they're hosed. It's just not a good idea for a game of this genre. Ever.

But add in the distribution issues and honestly I'm still baffled that this was ever approved at any level by anyone. It's such a common sense issue that was identified by everyone and their 5 year old children as soon as the announcement was made that ... it's just hard to get my arms around. It's not just the biggest mistake made with respect to the expansion, it's the biggest mistake associated with this game since 2004, IMO. And that includes the fighter revamp. I don't think it can be overstated enough. 

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Old 01-08-2010, 01:31 PM   #697
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[email protected] wrote:

today i have canceled my subscribtion. wish you all the best with the add-on. maybe something "good" will happen and soe finds a solution for european customers. with such a patriotism company-policy in germany we get compared with "national socialism" and everybody points a finger on the grievance !

regards from germany

akbar

Watch out! I got banned for calling someone a nartsi once! SMILEY

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Old 01-08-2010, 02:51 PM   #698
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Jynnan wrote:

You're right, it wouldn't be a good idea and my suggestion was kind of tongue-in-cheek; however, it DID illicit a response from you for the first time in 8 weeks, which shows us that you are still monitoring this thread, even if you don't have the decency to make any comments. As many posts have said, ANY comment, whether to say that there is still no news is better than keeping quiet and not saying anything.

When I was at University we were taught that if you say nothing in any business and don't keep your people updated and informed, rumours will always break out and morale will start to break down. This is precisely why you are getting angry CUSTOMERS posting all sorts of theories and scare stories on this thread.

I beg your pardon, but I believe that if you actually went through this thread you would see that I have posted quite a lot and kept people updated with all the information that I have had to hand when I've gotten it.

No matter how sympathetic I am to your position, that doesn't excuse rudeness or fallacious accusations on your part.

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Old 01-08-2010, 02:53 PM   #699
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I could care less about a retail box. I could care less about "limited edition" mounts (that no doubt will be available via Station Cash for those with more money than sense). I could care less about being disenfranchised by getting access to another expansion doubtless chock-a-block full of "fail" a week after those who pay exactly the same as me in subscriptions.

What sticks in my craw is that the servers that separate Runnyeye from the US servers are physically side by side. There is no good reason why EU players should be denied access at the same time EXCEPT that the US has a long and distinguished history of promoting apartheid. And before you ban my account I suggest you wiki the word and you will see that what SOE is doing is precisely this:

"an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group"

Yeah, you know what? You're right I'm overreacting. But you know what else? I really don't care any more. SOE? You are a company comprised of utter thoughtless idiots, and if you want to know why the game is going down the pan this last year or so you just need to take a look in the mirror.

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Old 01-08-2010, 03:29 PM   #700
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What about those outside the US that want the Collectors Edition stuff, like the mount, or any of the items not available with the digital download (I presume the digital download won't be US only - but with SOE at the moment you never can tell...).

Are we to be denied them because SOE can't get their act together and get international dealers to carry the same retail items as available to the US customers.

We are not asking for special EU versions, or any fancy extra deals - just the ability to buy the same boxed goods as already available in the US.

Is that so hard to organize?If so it's time for some firing to be done, and time to hire marketting personal with more than one brain cell.

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Old 01-08-2010, 03:48 PM   #701
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Yippy 

I am post number 700  

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Old 01-08-2010, 04:29 PM   #702
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Jynnan wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

today i have canceled my subscribtion. wish you all the best with the add-on. maybe something "good" will happen and soe finds a solution for european customers. with such a patriotism company-policy in germany we get compared with "national socialism" and everybody points a finger on the grievance !

regards from germany

akbar

Watch out! I got banned for calling someone a nartsi once!

that makes the end more bearable..SMILEY its a great game, thats right....but the community needs more respect. they are the people who provides for the wages of the managers, chiefs, employees of the company! we need a "open government", we need "real informations"....what we dont need is a "spoof"!

regards akbar

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Old 01-08-2010, 04:44 PM   #703
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Kiara wrote:

I beg your pardon, but I believe that if you actually went through this thread you would see that I have posted quite a lot and kept people updated with all the information that I have had to hand when I've gotten it.

To be blunt, posting "there are no updates", isnt an update, especially when its been 8 weeks of "no updates" and its wearing thin frankly

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Old 01-08-2010, 04:52 PM   #704
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Stuntie wrote:

What about those outside the US that want the Collectors Edition stuff, like the mount, or any of the items not available with the digital download (I presume the digital download won't be US only - but with SOE at the moment you never can tell...).

Are we to be denied them because SOE can't get their act together and get international dealers to carry the same retail items as available to the US customers.

We are not asking for special EU versions, or any fancy extra deals - just the ability to buy the same boxed goods as already available in the US.

Is that so hard to organize?If so it's time for some firing to be done, and time to hire marketting personal with more than one brain cell.

QFT!

There are just simple and single person small time shops and small budget game studios that are able to sell stuff on an international / global level.

It's just downright baffling and pure amateurism that a big budget company like Sony (SOE being a subsidiary or not) can't get some game boxes distributed accross the pond!!

In any other company people would have been fired for their sheer incompetence for this kind of huge screw ups and pulling your company's reputation and name into the gutter.

SOE has already build up a pretty bad reputation across the globe over the years. And this is just making it only worse and worse.

For a lot of non-US customers this is just the final drop and their patience with SOE has dried up.

Worst in all this, is that you have some wonderful developers and talented artists in-house that do a wonderful job with the game and now with this upcoming expansion.

The upcoming expansion, what should be a global united celebration on February 16th with global international guilds jumping into the new content together! 

And all that is now going to be totally ruined, because of some incompetent idiots that are responsible for Marketing/Distribution!

-------------------------------------------

At this moment, only 4-5 weeks away, you know it, I know, everyone else knows it... that you will never get the international distribution in order anymore before 16th!

So the only choice you have left at SOE and to salvage the situation and somewhat fix this debacle, is to make Digital Download pre-orders available at the 16th.

Jer

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Old 01-08-2010, 05:08 PM   #705
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Stuntie wrote:

What about those outside the US that want the Collectors Edition stuff, like the mount, or any of the items not available with the digital download (I presume the digital download won't be US only - but with SOE at the moment you never can tell...).

Are we to be denied them because SOE can't get their act together and get international dealers to carry the same retail items as available to the US customers.

We are not asking for special EU versions, or any fancy extra deals - just the ability to buy the same boxed goods as already available in the US.

Is that so hard to organize?If so it's time for some firing to be done, and time to hire marketting personal with more than one brain cell.

QFT!

There are just simple and single person small time shops and small budget game studios that are able to sell stuff on an international / global level.

It's just downright baffling and pure amateurism that a big budget company like Sony (SOE being a subsidiary or not) can't get some game boxes distributed accross the pond!!

In any other company people would have been fired for their sheer incompetence for this kind of huge screw ups and pulling your company's reputation and name into the gutter.

Jer

thats the problem....sony doesn't need us "tiny customers" of eq2...they still purchase her tv's, dolby-souround systems etc.....if a product does not drop enough money it will be unattended...its not worth to spent more time, strength and money into it!

other companys who have only the software development are dependet in customers playing the game...!!!!!

regards akbar

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Old 01-08-2010, 05:20 PM   #706
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Stuntie wrote:

What about those outside the US that want the Collectors Edition stuff, like the mount, or any of the items not available with the digital download (I presume the digital download won't be US only - but with SOE at the moment you never can tell...).

Are we to be denied them because SOE can't get their act together and get international dealers to carry the same retail items as available to the US customers.

We are not asking for special EU versions, or any fancy extra deals - just the ability to buy the same boxed goods as already available in the US.

Is that so hard to organize?If so it's time for some firing to be done, and time to hire marketting personal with more than one brain cell.

QFT!

There are just simple and single person small time shops and small budget game studios that are able to sell stuff on an international / global level.

It's just downright baffling and pure amateurism that a big budget company like Sony (SOE being a subsidiary or not) can't get some game boxes distributed accross the pond!!

In any other company people would have been fired for their sheer incompetence for this kind of huge screw ups and pulling your company's reputation and name into the gutter.

Jer

thats the problem....sony doesn't need us "tiny customers" of eq2...they still purchase her tv's, dolby-souround systems etc.....if a product does not drop enough money it will be unattended...its not worth to spent more time, strength and money into it!

other companys who have only the software development are dependet in customers playing the game...!!!!!

regards akbar

Ehmm excuse me?

Have you checked the US server list lately and how many servers are actually at Medium activity? And only 2 are on Heavy.

The 2 European servers are still at Medium most of the day and decently populated. Plus a lot of people from Europe who are in international guilds play on the US servers! Especially Antonia Bayle is full of European players and has Heavy load during European Primetime! And the PVP server Nagafen (I think) is also on Heavy Load during European Primetime.

It's pretty safe to say that at least 30-35% of the EQ2 population are people from outside US.

That's why this whole Pre-Order fiasco is just ..... I have no words for it anymore. Just baffling.

Jer

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Old 01-08-2010, 05:38 PM   #707
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Wow this has turned into a long thread. In case you are suffering from “can't see the wood for the trees” syndrome, let me summarise a few thoughts :

(1) You actually have an excellent product, which has kept a great many of us playing (and paying) for over 5 years.

(2) Many of us were genuinely excited with the details released about the new SF expansion, and would be keen to continue playing EQ2.

(3) The release date for the expansion is Feb 16th.

(4) The so called “Head-start” is misleading. It is in fact marketing blurb for an artificial delay imposed on the Digital Download for marketing purposes only.

(5) There is no technical reason why people using Digital Download could not actually start playing from the 16th.

(6) Your customers are not stupid, and can see through the blurb to realise points (3) – (5). Actually, judging by some of the level chat that crops up on our server, I'll change that to “MOST of your customers are not stupid” …  

(7) All that your international customers want is the opportunity to play the EQ2 expansion at release, and a method of purchasing your product which allows them to do this without inflated costs and any doubt that they will actually receive your product on or before release day.

Acceptable ways to achieve (7) for international customers are :

(a) To walk into a local store in their own country and purchase the retail box on or before 16th Feb.

(b) To buy the retail box from an on-line retailer that sells the product in their local currency, and delivers to their country using local delivery costs, with a guaranteed delivery date on or before 16th Feb.

(c) To purchase the Digital Download and be allowed to start playing expansion content from 16th Feb.

Finally let me give a quick visual representation of where SOE currently stand with many of us. Honestly, things are not looking good. There is time to turn things around, but not a lot of it. Do us all a favour, and sort something out.

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Old 01-08-2010, 08:47 PM   #708
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Cobalt Knight wrote:

Wow this has turned into a long thread. In case you are suffering from “can't see the wood for the trees” syndrome, let me summarise a few thoughts :

(1) You actually have an excellent product, which has kept a great many of us playing (and paying) for over 5 years.

(2) Many of us were genuinely excited with the details released about the new SF expansion, and would be keen to continue playing EQ2.

(3) The release date for the expansion is Feb 16th.

(4) The so called “Head-start” is misleading. It is in fact marketing blurb for an artificial delay imposed on the Digital Download for marketing purposes only.

(5) There is no technical reason why people using Digital Download could not actually start playing from the 16th.

(6) Your customers are not stupid, and can see through the blurb to realise points (3) – (5). Actually, judging by some of the level chat that crops up on our server, I'll change that to “MOST of your customers are not stupid” …  

(7) All that your international customers want is the opportunity to play the EQ2 expansion at release, and a method of purchasing your product which allows them to do this without inflated costs and any doubt that they will actually receive your product on or before release day.

Acceptable ways to achieve (7) for international customers are :

(a) To walk into a local store in their own country and purchase the retail box on or before 16th Feb.

(b) To buy the retail box from an on-line retailer that sells the product in their local currency, and delivers to their country using local delivery costs, with a guaranteed delivery date on or before 16th Feb.

(c) To purchase the Digital Download and be allowed to start playing expansion content from 16th Feb.

Finally let me give a quick visual representation of where SOE currently stand with many of us. Honestly, things are not looking good. There is time to turn things around, but not a lot of it. Do us all a favour, and sort something out.

BRAVO! SOE? Are you listening yet?

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Old 01-08-2010, 08:53 PM   #709
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I think "yet" would infer past or previous attempts at listening, nothing Ive seen any proof of
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:21 PM   #710
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Does anyone know if John Smedley is aware of what sales and marketing are doing and how theyre creating the international players?
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:42 PM   #711
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The time has come now for SOE to say one way or another to the international community about this issue,this "we're still looking" malarky isnt cutting it for me,its far too late for an international distributer to be found to allow us ALL a part of the expansions launch,which is the 16th,not a week later,just utter spin by the marketing bods.

So come on be honest with us and say that we wont be getting it on launch day i think i'd have more respect for SOE if they did that at least we would know for certian, and as for Kiara's role in this sorry affair in my book she's done ok,she's the messenger nothing more to take our ire out on her is wrong,its her bosses,those buffoons in suits that are to blame not her.

Ever since this madness was announced my posisiton was clear to me i wont buy the xpac but i would carry on subbing to the game while there was something to do in it for me but given that i've barely logged on for the last week i can see my time in EQ2 coming to an end my 2 kids have already gone to WOW,a game that SOE sees as EQ rival but even i have seen that Blizzard step up and make the CUSTOMERS feel wanted not something SOE does well at all.

Its a shame too that Smedley cant pop into this thread and put his companys view across but maybe he's busy i dont know but having a word from the head man would be a nice touch to this fiasco

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Old 01-09-2010, 01:11 AM   #712
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What is SOE doing to actually doing to address this issue?  Kiara simply passing on concerns was adequate 8 weeks ago. It is completely inadequate now.If SOE is attempting to do anything to resolve this issue, I want to know what they are doing, and how much progress being made? Are there any backup plans? 8 weeks is far too long without any kind of progress report. SOE needs to pull their heads out of their *** and start giving real answers.If SOE is not attempting to do anything to resolve this issue, I want to know that this company has no qualms about discrimination, and as another player perfectly put it, apartheid of the playerbase.

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Old 01-09-2010, 03:31 AM   #713
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Someone back in the US should just take paypal orders for $5 more than the cost of the expansion, and then email keycodes out when they come.... Could even include a second option for people in EU to also pay for non-express shipipng costs, so the customers could eventually get their box.

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Old 01-09-2010, 04:09 AM   #714
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[email protected] wrote:

What is SOE doing to actually doing to address this issue?  Kiara simply passing on concerns was adequate 8 weeks ago. It is completely inadequate now.If SOE is attempting to do anything to resolve this issue, I want to know what they are doing, and how much progress being made? Are there any backup plans? 8 weeks is far too long without any kind of progress report. SOE needs to pull their heads out of their *** and start giving real answers.If SOE is not attempting to do anything to resolve this issue, I want to know that this company has no qualms about discrimination, and as another player perfectly put it, apartheid of the playerbase.

Maybe they should at least let us know which of the two it is going to be.

Not getting information leaves us in the uncertain so we can do nothing but guessing and getting annoyed.

-If- they have plans to drop international support to save costs or so, they should do it all straight away.(and not slowly, silectly abandon it, maybe to get some more money out of the servers before they are fully depreciated)

You see, Im already growing suspicious thoughts, only because I don't know what im up to.

Being left in uncertain hurts more than a hard truth.

Support the game for "the rest of the world" 100% or 0%, but not "as much as what it's worth for us".

If they -do- want to resolve it (show us the progress bar plz), why not offer officially what those cd key sites offer, but then through DD or so? (since there are a lot of these sites, it seems not hard to achieve)

So we can order a 7-day-before DD or only the key itself at retail box price, and have the box shipped afterwards so we won't have to wait for the box to play the game, AND we have the retail box in the end.

(result: we- (1.) bought the retail box for the price that was intended, so SOE 'marketing' is satisfied, -and- (2.) we can start playing on time. Exactly what payers in the USA get.)

Noticing problems is simple. Finding solutions is simple. Bringing them to reality by taking action is prolly the bottle neck.

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Old 01-09-2010, 06:29 AM   #715
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Cobalt Knight wrote:

(3) The release date for the expansion is Feb 16th.

The problem with this is that SOE has given the oficial release date as the 23rd, which is why Amazon wont ship early enough for non USA players to get the game in time for the 16th.

Now if they would actually give the 16th as release date, it might still be possible/worth it for us to preorder.

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Old 01-09-2010, 06:57 AM   #716
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de·ba·cle (d-bäkl, -bkl, db-kl) n. 1. A sudden, disastrous collapse, downfall, or defeat; a rout. 2. A total, often ludicrous failure. 3. The breaking up of ice in a river. 4. A violent flood. 5. Business as usual at SoE Sales and Marketing.
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:33 AM   #717
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Spammer wrote:

de·ba·cle (d-bäkl, -bkl, db-kl) n. 1. A sudden, disastrous collapse, downfall, or defeat; a rout. 2. A total, often ludicrous failure. 3. The breaking up of ice in a river. 4. A violent flood. 5. Business as usual at SoE Sales and Marketing.

This just about sums it up completely.  I cannot, no matter how long i think about it defend this entire marketing strategy in ANY way.  If this problem wasn't so [Removed for Content] frustrating i would laugh myself stupid

The fact that i and many of my fellow guild mates are forced to go cap in hand to our American guildies to help us out so we can ALL play together on the 16th, is nothing short of insulting. 

Please address this sorry debacle immediately, i WANT to see a senior manager from whomever is responsible in here to expalin how all this happened.  You owe us that for the 1000's upon 1000's of $$$$ we have given you.  Own up and tell us [Removed for Content] is happening.  It's crunch time now one way or another we all need to know, then you can sit back in ur office and watch how it affects your playerbase (subscriptions)

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Old 01-09-2010, 08:25 AM   #718
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Im at that point where I have to either beg an American guildy to waste his time and go out and buy it for me or to tell SoE just where to stuff a collectors box.... sideways and covered in Liquid Heat.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:33 AM   #719
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Go to soepress.com and click on contact, and there are email addresses for their PR team - let them know what you think of this.

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Old 01-09-2010, 09:04 AM   #720
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that would be to some of these people then:

Katie HansonDirector Product PRTel: 858-577-3167[email protected]IM: katieSOE (AOL)

Taina RodriguezSenior PR SpecialistTel: 858-577-3033[email protected]IM: TainaRod (AOL)

Ryan PetersPR SpecialistTel: 858-577-3263[email protected]IM: RyanCPeters (AIM)

Melissa ZukermanCorporate CommunicationsTel: 310-407-0361[email protected]

Jordan FraserPR CoordinatorTel: 858-577-3268[email protected]

Sara KaplanConsumer PR ManagerTel: 858-790-3541[email protected]

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