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Old 10-19-2017, 07:20 AM   #1
Beee

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Planes of Prophecy Beta Update: Tuesday 10/17

ABILITIES
Judication now increases Fervor and Fervor overcap instead of potency and is no longer based off of the groups potency.


ITEMS
Rising Tide effects will now drop when out of combat.
Rising Tide effects will now modify Fervor instead of use potency conversions.


----------

If a preClicky cant be used as preClicky anymore.. it's not a preClicky anymore and useless Mad
At least please remove the out of combat drop
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:48 AM   #2
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A suggestion: due to the potency -> fervor change, perhaps a reasonable adjustment would be to take away the 10s "wait" penalty so they're instant/quick cast, and usable freely? Can adjust recast accordingly if necessary.

The fervor proc runes are fun, and add a bit of strategy to work around/with as they are random, but it would be awesome to have an additional component to controlling your personal burst DPS at will, even if its a small burst/long recast with rising tide charms.

To expand: right now, besides profession-based temp abilities, maximizing your burst DPS around the existing fervor rune is sporadic, and at times frustrating, if you're trying to maximize your rune fervor proc. Having rising tide instant/fast casting without penalty to be used freely would add an additional dynamic during a fight to know you have an additional (reliable) tool to ramp up your DPS on command. Even if this means adjusting recast time and/or the actual fervor boost...

Just a thought
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Old 10-19-2017, 05:16 PM   #3
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Fervor is capped Potency is not. This is probably why they figured it was overpowered.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:30 PM   #4
Gninja

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Just to clarify the term "Pre-clicky" was labeled by the players not the dev team. It was never intended to be used the way it ended up being used and has caused quite a lot of issues surrounding the way it was eventually used. Thus why it was changed.
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:43 PM   #5
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The most clicky items are meaned to be used in Combat or at least drop out when you swap out the item.
That kind of fix/change happened often in the past.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:09 PM   #6
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Step by step you remove all the fun and finetunining. Eek

We have still a lot of klickies or short time effects which can be casted ouside a battle...
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:11 PM   #7
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I said this in discord the other day, but I feel it bears repeating here.

"I saw the rising tide change, and that's very interesting! It led me to another question, though. One of the biggest issues I have with clickie charms currently is that they are often difficult to actually use in combat. Things like Rising Tide, Warrior's Way, Fates Entwined, etc. all have long cast times... which are interrupted by damage. Often times in a raid, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to actually complete a cast of them due to the constant pulsing damage. Is that something that has been addressed with POP's charms?"

Straight up, a lot of the charms are just literally unusable in fights. If I can even finish a cast in the first place, it often takes me 10+ seconds to do it because of interruption on the charm cast. The opportunity cost is enormous and doesn't pay dividends in the current state they're in, IMO.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:11 PM   #8
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Sorry you feel that way Frown but we won't be changing it back.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:55 PM   #9
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Then change the casting time. 3 second cast time when you're doing 3b dps is 9b dps.

That means, the clickie has to give me over the course of it's life at least 9b dps in gains (over regular dps) for it to be worth even clicking... since it's now incombat only this has to be the case....

or get rid of the clickies.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:30 PM   #10
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Why not leave it potency though. Make it once it’s cast and active you can’t remove it. Fervor increase doesn’t really help since most people cap (when the rune procs at least lol). Just curious.
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:08 AM   #11
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Now like all other fervor clicklies is is no longer worth casting and i think that was the point.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:22 AM   #12
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/shrug. They are the ones that made this past xpac all about potentcy. Leave it potentcy and don’t allow players to swap it out and it will still be choice of the day. We already have like what 2 other charms for fervor, new ascensions that add fervor to spells combat arts etc. with the belt and heart bounds most people are well over 100 fervor and with the slowly proccig run you easily reach cap. Now all fervor clickies are really irrelevant.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:53 PM   #13
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There are a lot of other items whick can be used bevor the fight (and switched out after using)

Will you change them too?
eg:
http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/60460020 (10 Fervor für 1 minute)
http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/696138725 (25 Basepotency for 10 seconds)

With all these - inc in 15 - preKlickies we can start a fight with 100k+ potency, without them 40% less

And yes, I'm really thinking you decided to remove a lot of fun by cutting off all the secrets, which can be used by everyone who wants to do excellent gameplay

And at least I will never use a Rising Tide Fervor Klicky anymore - it's 100% useless
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:21 PM   #14
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And you found that out after to expansions? sorry, but I do not believe that. it was exactly the same as with the etheral effects (reset, fervor proc...). suddenly after two expansions effects do not work as desired...
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:31 PM   #15
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To be fair, in ToT it didn't really matter. In KA, however, potency levels got stupidly huge and the clickies because, effectively, more powerful.
Also, the devs didn't say the proc didn't work as desired.. just that players were using them as the devs had intended the items to be used when they were created. Those are not the same thing.
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:32 PM   #16
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I'm glad its been nerfed into oblivion

It may have worked at the beginning of expansion, but by the end it was stupidly overpowered, changing it from a base potency increase to maybe 10k - 20k set increase may have been a better solution while worn.

Inc in 15 in raids is not my idea of fun while everyone swaps in and out of charms. Neither is panic scripts added to raid mobs
due to probably 24 people using charm, judication and 23 ethereal assassins and one brittle armour Smile

It needed changing as potency ran rampant towards the end of expansion, its like dragon ward that became incredibly effective at end of expansion with 40 million plus wards on it.

That's my two pennies on it.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:27 AM   #17
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Players will always explore the possibilities how to use the items devs create, the history of almost every game since Amiga times shows that. That is the choice of the different ways the game is supposed to offer the players to explore. If it turns out players aren't using an item / proc as it was intended, the only blame for that can be the shortsight of devs who were working on said item / proc, since there's no real 100% way to determine how things programmed will end up being used and some degree of freedom should always be allowed in favour of game enjoyment.
Seeing the proc in question being narrowed down to the very uncomfortable use during only the battle where it can be easily interrupted and end up being ultimately nerfed, is maybe not the best way to adress that however, as it only narrows down the way to use it even further, while the items with the proc might be not the most desireable in slot, thus eliminating the fun factor from the bonus of using it almost entirely. It is however understandable that devs want to eliminate the proc which they created themselves, in favor of the new items in slot to come with the new expac, which is not entirely new approach either.
Just that it reminds of shutting down old doors only to open new ones, thus removing old content compatibility in favor of the new one and ignoring everything else left behind. And that just again leaves a bitter aftertaste of the game being adapted only to the most current content and abandoning everything below that (just remember the huge experience nerf for every old zone but Kunark Ascending).
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Old 10-21-2017, 01:03 AM   #18
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Which would you rather? Having that charm as it currently is or Panic scripts? Tongue Allowing players to super buff their potency/fervor by extreme amounts and not getting the negative of it taking up a slot they could put something else in bypasses the intention. So it was made where you can't do that. Essentially it was being used as a third charm. On top of that it severely affected tanks being able to hold aggro at the beginning of the fight since everyone basically attempts to death touch their target before it wears off Tongue I understand the frustration with it being changed, who doesn't want to do tons and tons of damage? But this one was way too far off the deep end.

We can discuss making them unable to be interrupted though. Ultimately, its up to the mechanics folks. I just make boss fights Smile

UPDATE: Just spoke with Caith and we will be making all these effects unable to be interrupted, so they are easier to use in combat. We are not going to be changing that they can only be used in combat though.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:16 AM   #19
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You can run with a conjy and necro without the charms and they will tank zones and pull aggroo from tanks all day.. The charm had nothing to do with that at all and will not after the xpac lol.. the fact that pets share stats and people bump up strikethrough to 100% and dps mods to 2000k has more to do with that. I get not changing out the charm, great fix, but changing it to fervor again makes it useless. Leave as potency and it won't hurt anything, if anyone uses it then.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:27 AM   #20
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They need to add more watch you DPS checks back into the game, not just blow it up into oblivion lol.. IE.. do I really want to cast that huge hitting spell right now, and keep your mana above % fights.. those are always fun, but in the end it makes to many people have to think about how to approach things or change their precious rotations lol..
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:01 AM   #21
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well the rule of thumb is easy... if a pally loses hate on his amends target its a bad pally...
in addition stikethroug doesnt do anything for your pet.. it does carry over 0 influence. and only 20% of yoru DPS mod goes to pet, so even with 2k you'd be at 400DPS on the pet (which i'd like to remind you is only usefull up to heroic content)

have you ever played a summoner or pally at all? or just going off thing you read?

but since we're going off-topic from rising tide i'd love to take it to discord with you <3
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:33 AM   #22
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Summoner epic 2.0 pet doesn't have that high hit rate by itself, his own weapon skills bit low or something, although at least a Necromancer can help the hit chance with the Vampire Bats spell (dunno if Conjurors have same / similar spell too). But after casting Vampire Bats (or from other classes with abilities which lower Defense stat) the pet does hit noticeably better, as seen by easier getting aggro from him.
Got to agree with knine too, running in normal and Expert heroics I've had very often problems getting aggro off the tank, and that is with -54% Hate Mod. Paladins generally being the only exception, and tanks with better than me raid gear, but if I was same high geared I wonder if I'd still pull the aggro. It might be a different picture in raids.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:45 AM   #23
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RT Reduktion from 35k Potency to 57 fervor ist bad enough. My pet has about 200 fervor.. This is a Nerf of the boost from 1.7 -> 1.2 or about 2/3.
But wenn habe to live with this desition. At least i will miss RT.
The way it works at beta, It's not usefull anymore.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:56 PM   #24
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I wholeheartedly support getting rid of “pre-clickies”. It was a pseudoexploitive concept and disruptive to several aspects of gameplay.

However, in a related discussion, can you guys please take a hard look at the cast times on all forms of temp self buffs, either items or abilities? With the levels of DPS that are being put out these days, if you do the calculations on “break even” boost, some/many of these things just aren’t worth casting anymore. There’s a wide range from “just barely breaks even based on lost cast time opportunities of my damage spells” to “an actual loss of real DPS”, with a few of the better ones still being a moderate boost.

I’d much rather have our DPS potential controlled by the cast times of the actual damage ability, and the duration of a temp. The decision when to cast a temp buff should be dictated by a player's knowledge of the script and flow of battle, with the temp buff itself being almost instant cast. I would also recommend applying this principle to Epic and Ascension temp buffs too, for same reasons.

Recommended baseline standard for this stuff (before cast speed mods applied):
1) Profession and Item temps: 0.5 sec
2) EpIc temps: 1.0 sec
3) Ascension temps: 2.0 sec

A player should never have to work out the math on whether or not a temp buff is going to be an actual LOSS of DPS. Never. Please consider this huge QoL change on our behalf. Thank you.

(Edit - to save you the asspain of having to scrub the entire database, I volunteer to start a thread and collect data from each class to bin things into the above categories, consolidate it, and provide that to you guys so it’s a faster overhaul for you to work. Just give me the “yeah do that please” nod.)
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:17 PM   #25
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I thought the panic scripts were necessary because of bugged (geomancer) ascedion spells Tongue
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:24 PM   #26
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Actually, in an update back in Feb.. Strkethrough does share 100% with pet and you're right, dps is shared only 20%.. but when you reforge yourself up to 2k dps mod, the pet sits at the 600 dps.. I've pulled agro off of many tanks, good and bad and tanked many zones as a necro
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:41 PM   #27
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ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT
  • Primary and Swarm pets will now share 20% of the casters DPS stat, and 100% of the casters strikethrough.
  • Combos involving Telluric Rending and Terrestrial Coffin will now properly trigger.
Feb 28th notes from a few months back, so I would assume I have to go by what I read Smile ... No I don't play a summoner, however I play with good summoners Smile Should probably read notes more and my guess is you're not parsing on par with these summoners that pull agro all day...
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:52 PM   #28
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and we're not off track. Gninja made the comment that this will fix most the agro which, it will not. Like I said before, I agree with the making it not able to be cast and then removed, but disagree with the pot to fervor change seeing as we all almost cap when runes proc and there is no reliable way to make this work in our favor so to speak, but I don't design and make the game. That's just my two cents.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:35 PM   #29
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I don't know what tanks you've been playing with, but i feel sorry for you... unless i go 100% hate gain on my necro theres plenty of tanks that keep aggro without a problem with or without rising tide.

added to that the change to fervor still leaves it at 10-25% base fervor for a bunch of people so still pretty decent, just not game breaking strong.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:49 PM   #30
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Pretty sure this was all over the forums in the mage and fighter forums as well as being talked about on discord. If you spec yourself right with strikethrough and dps mod.. your pet is ridiculous and will pull agro all day long.. I've seen conjy's pull from pallys with amends on them. Hate has been a problem for a little while now, people has just learned to deal with it.
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